drawing for the flush?

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 12:19:55
From: kuhnfucius
Subject: drawing for the flush?

Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
hit a flush. MTIA

Date: 18 Dec 2006 11:14:50
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

kuhnfucius wrote:
> Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
> chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
> in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
> to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
> Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
> called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
> stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
> Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
> about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
> I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
> hit a flush. MTIA

You are going to lose this hand more times than you are going to win
this hand. And even though winning this hand may well win you the
tournament, it looks like you are going to crippled if you lose, and may
lose the tournament. More often than not. This does not seem like a
good tourney decision to me for one of the big stacks. There is
information missing, but even if everyone has extremely low M, I don't
really believe this is good.

Mostly, I hate your flush draws except the 8d. Why doesn't one of your
opponents have the AQ of diamonds here? You have a bad flush draw,
which means that those few times becomes fewer. I like your straight
draws, in that if you hit, you are likely to win. But that is only a
gut shot, and as you found out later, the 8's were practically dead.

With a flop like this, a lot of people have outs, you had outs. Does
not mean anyone with outs should be playing, or everyone with outs
should be playing. As a big stack getting your money in good, in the
absence of other influences, is going to get you more tourneys, than
just looking for chances to gamble. And more tourneys is KEY because of
the top heavy nature.

Date: 18 Dec 2006 10:42:29
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

> Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
> chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
> in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
> to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
> Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
> called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
> stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
> Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
> about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
> I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
> hit a flush. MTIA

You received some pretty horrible advice in this thread, and while I don't
claim to be able to offer any better, I would ignore what the rest of
these clowns have written.

My suggestion is to research odds and pot odds. A good book to start
with is Lee Jones' Winning Low Limit Holdem.

As for the actual hand, if you are sure that you will win the hand if you
hit your flush or straight, and you are getting the right pot odds, I
would call. I won't give you a yes or no answer here, because I believe
it's much more beneficial if you go out and learn how to figure that out
on your own. Good luck.

Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 10:22:54
From: Zidane Valor
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

Since you only tell us the hand that won, I can tell you that you were a
57% favorite after the flop against the eights (according to
cardplayer.com odds calculator).

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 12:50:37
From: The Shadow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

you had 12 outs 3 8's 9 diamonds. 12 totals outs, about 50% chance of
improving to straight or flush. Sounds like the pot was giving u the
odds to call. In a cash game, i think it is an easy call. In a tourney
it is different, u said u were crippled, if u still have plenty to play
with, I dont think I would take a 50% chance to be crippled.

kuhnfucius wrote:
> Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
> chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
> in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
> to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
> Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
> called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
> stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
> Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
> about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
> I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
> hit a flush. MTIA
>
>

Date: 18 Dec 18:07:57
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 5:50 PM, The Shadow wrote:

> you had 12 outs 3 8's 9 diamonds. 12 totals outs, about 50% chance of
> improving to straight or flush. Sounds like the pot was giving u the
> odds to call. In a cash game, i think it is an easy call. In a tourney
> it is different, u said u were crippled, if u still have plenty to play
> with, I dont think I would take a 50% chance to be crippled.
>

BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%. But I
would have called, given the odds on offer.

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 13:55:30
From: The Shadow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

I thought the rule of thumb was outs x 2. 12 outs = 24% on turn and a
little higher on the river cos there is 1 less card.

52 card deck
5 known cards 47 unknown cards
12/47 +12/46 I thought which would be around 50%.
Where am I going wrong?

Nick Wool wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 18 2006 5:50 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>
>> you had 12 outs 3 8's 9 diamonds. 12 totals outs, about 50% chance of
>> improving to straight or flush. Sounds like the pot was giving u the
>> odds to call. In a cash game, i think it is an easy call. In a tourney
>> it is different, u said u were crippled, if u still have plenty to play
>> with, I dont think I would take a 50% chance to be crippled.
>>
>
> BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%. But I
> would have called, given the odds on offer.
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 18 Dec 19:10:56
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 6:55 PM, The Shadow wrote:

> I thought the rule of thumb was outs x 2. 12 outs = 24% on turn and a
> little higher on the river cos there is 1 less card.
>
> 52 card deck
> 5 known cards 47 unknown cards
> 12/47 +12/46 I thought which would be around 50%.
> Where am I going wrong?
>

Also, think of it like this: say you flip a fair coin, and you need to flip at
least one head to win out of two tosses to win ....that about 50% twice,
right....are you going to win 100% of the time? Yet if you add the two 50%
together like you did, that's what you'll get.

Do you see where you are going wrong?

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 14:20:14
From: The Shadow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

so 12/47 on the turn ---- easy numbers 25%
and 12/46 on the river. ---- easy numbers 25%

i see what u r saying that it is not cumulative, but how would u do it.
How would u calculate it mathematically?

Nick Wool wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 18 2006 6:55 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>
>> I thought the rule of thumb was outs x 2. 12 outs = 24% on turn and a
>> little higher on the river cos there is 1 less card.
>>
>> 52 card deck
>> 5 known cards 47 unknown cards
>> 12/47 +12/46 I thought which would be around 50%.
>> Where am I going wrong?
>>
>
> Also, think of it like this: say you flip a fair coin, and you need to flip at
> least one head to win out of two tosses to win ....that about 50% twice,
> right....are you going to win 100% of the time? Yet if you add the two 50%
> together like you did, that's what you'll get.
>
> Do you see where you are going wrong?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 18 Dec 19:38:47
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 7:20 PM, The Shadow wrote:

> so 12/47 on the turn ---- easy numbers 25%
> and 12/46 on the river. ---- easy numbers 25%
>
> i see what u r saying that it is not cumulative, but how would u do it.
> How would u calculate it mathematically?
>
> Nick Wool wrote:
> >
> >

well, I am not sure how the experts would do it, as my maths is only so so...but
I would first work out my chance of NOT hitting:

So 12/47 x 12/46 =0.255 x 0.26...so my chance of not hitting are 0. 745 x 0.74
=0.55, therefore my chance of hitting is 0.45, or 45%.....quite a bit more than
my first impression of around 39%...:-)

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 15:25:14
From: The Shadow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

according to Poker Stove, assuming the enemy had TPTK, ( we aren't
counting that with 88 our hero had 2 overs to that and even more outs)
this is what we get.

Of course this is heads up, I believe he was 3way and didn't tell us
what the other had. This is also assuming the other guy didn't have 1
diamond. If the other guy had 1 diamond higher than our hero, then it
drops to 42% but that is an assumption that would be made by the player
based on how that player plays. For pure mathematical purposes it is an
unknown card.

Board: Qd 6h 7d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 48.2828 % 48.28% 00.00% { Td9d }
Hand 2: 51.7172 % 51.72% 00.00% { AhQc }

Nick Wool wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 18 2006 7:20 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>
>> so 12/47 on the turn ---- easy numbers 25%
>> and 12/46 on the river. ---- easy numbers 25%
>>
>> i see what u r saying that it is not cumulative, but how would u do it.
>> How would u calculate it mathematically?
>>
>> Nick Wool wrote:
>>>
>
> well, I am not sure how the experts would do it, as my maths is only so so...but
> I would first work out my chance of NOT hitting:
>
>
> So 12/47 x 12/46 =0.255 x 0.26...so my chance of not hitting are 0. 745 x 0.74
> =0.55, therefore my chance of hitting is 0.45, or 45%.....quite a bit more than
> my first impression of around 39%...:-)
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 18 Dec 20:32:51
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 8:25 PM, The Shadow wrote:

> according to Poker Stove, assuming the enemy had TPTK, ( we aren't
> counting that with 88 our hero had 2 overs to that and even more outs)
> this is what we get.
>
> Of course this is heads up, I believe he was 3way and didn't tell us
> what the other had. This is also assuming the other guy didn't have 1
> diamond. If the other guy had 1 diamond higher than our hero, then it
> drops to 42% but that is an assumption that would be made by the player
> based on how that player plays. For pure mathematical purposes it is an
> unknown card.
>
> Board: Qd 6h 7d
> Dead:
>
> equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
> Hand 1: 48.2828 % 48.28% 00.00% { Td9d }
> Hand 2: 51.7172 % 51.72% 00.00% { AhQc }
>
>

I think that 48.28% inculdes runners for 2 pairs and trips, plus running JKs.

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 14:29:18
From: The Shadow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

I understand the coin flip, 4 outcomes 3 give me the win. HH, HT, TH,
and not TT.

but how do u the math for the cards?

Nick Wool wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 18 2006 6:55 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>
>> I thought the rule of thumb was outs x 2. 12 outs = 24% on turn and a
>> little higher on the river cos there is 1 less card.
>>
>> 52 card deck
>> 5 known cards 47 unknown cards
>> 12/47 +12/46 I thought which would be around 50%.
>> Where am I going wrong?
>>
>
> Also, think of it like this: say you flip a fair coin, and you need to flip at
> least one head to win out of two tosses to win ....that about 50% twice,
> right....are you going to win 100% of the time? Yet if you add the two 50%
> together like you did, that's what you'll get.
>
> Do you see where you are going wrong?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 18 Dec 19:04:04
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

Date: 18 Dec 2006 18:25:41
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 11:07 AM, Nick Wool wrote:

> On Dec 18 2006 5:50 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>
> > you had 12 outs 3 8's 9 diamonds. 12 totals outs, about 50% chance of
> > improving to straight or flush. Sounds like the pot was giving u the
> > odds to call. In a cash game, i think it is an easy call. In a tourney
> > it is different, u said u were crippled, if u still have plenty to play
> > with, I dont think I would take a 50% chance to be crippled.
> >
>
> BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%.
But I
> would have called, given the odds on offer.

Wrong, sir Nick. 12 outs with 2 to come is about 45% to improve.

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 19 Dec 2006 02:46:41
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

"FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:56vj54xt2b.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 18 2006 11:07 AM, Nick Wool wrote:
>
>> On Dec 18 2006 5:50 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>>
>> > you had 12 outs 3 8's 9 diamonds. 12 totals outs, about 50% chance of
>> > improving to straight or flush. Sounds like the pot was giving u the
>> > odds to call. In a cash game, i think it is an easy call. In a tourney
>> > it is different, u said u were crippled, if u still have plenty to play
>> > with, I dont think I would take a 50% chance to be crippled.
>> >
>>
>> BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%.
> But I
>> would have called, given the odds on offer.
>
> Wrong, sir Nick. 12 outs with 2 to come is about 45% to improve.
>
Agreed, Sir Fell. But he corrected it a little further down.

Palooka (a mere pawn; not a Bishop, Rook nor even a Knight)

Date: 18 Dec 2006 22:47:55
From: kuhnfucius
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

I can't calculate odds at the table, but all I could plainly see was here
was an opportunatity to take out two players and take a big bit out of the
chip leader. As it turned out after missing the flush (and striaght flush)
I lasted one more revolution. The fellow who won on the missed flush game
with 8,8, later knocked me out by calling my all in, with me having 10,10
down, He did not even look at his cards. He had A,10 down. The flop came
A, 10, 4 and he hit an A on the river.
Insult to injure. When your hot, your hot....when your not......? Once
agian thanks, as now I feel better about making the call.
"Palooka" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:loIhh.55$qh4.37@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:56vj54xt2b.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> On Dec 18 2006 11:07 AM, Nick Wool wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 18 2006 5:50 PM, The Shadow wrote:
>>>
>>> > you had 12 outs 3 8's 9 diamonds. 12 totals outs, about 50% chance of
>>> > improving to straight or flush. Sounds like the pot was giving u the
>>> > odds to call. In a cash game, i think it is an easy call. In a tourney
>>> > it is different, u said u were crippled, if u still have plenty to
>>> > play
>>> > with, I dont think I would take a 50% chance to be crippled.
>>> >
>>>
>>> BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%.
>> But I
>>> would have called, given the odds on offer.
>>
>> Wrong, sir Nick. 12 outs with 2 to come is about 45% to improve.
>>
> Agreed, Sir Fell. But he corrected it a little further down.
>
> Palooka (a mere pawn; not a Bishop, Rook nor even a Knight)
>

Date: 19 Dec
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

> >
> > BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%.
> But I
> > would have called, given the odds on offer.
>
> Wrong, sir Nick. 12 outs with 2 to come is about 45% to improve.
>
> Fell
> --
> Website: http://www.fellknight.com/
> Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

Too late again, dear T2 lad....I have already corrected this error when I showed
him how to work out the probabilities, and came up with 45%...:-)

39% was an intuitive guess, 45% is right for 12 outs at flop, but I think it is
about 48% against TPTK when you include runners (9T Diamonds V AQ 1 diamond on a
flop of 67Q two diamonds).

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 19:55:16
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 7:39 PM, Nick Wool wrote:

> > >
> > > BTW, 12 outs with 2 cards to come is nowhere near 50%.....try about 39%.
> > But I
> > > would have called, given the odds on offer.
> >
> > Wrong, sir Nick. 12 outs with 2 to come is about 45% to improve.
> >
> > Fell
> > --
> > Website: http://www.fellknight.com/
> > Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
>
> Too late again, dear T2 lad....I have already corrected this error when I
showed
> him how to work out the probabilities, and came up with 45%...:-)
>
> 39% was an intuitive guess, 45% is right for 12 outs at flop, but I think it
is
> about 48% against TPTK when you include runners (9T Diamonds V AQ 1 diamond
on a
> flop of 67Q two diamonds).

Stop guessing when providing advice then, sir :)

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 17:41:32
From: Cymbal Man Freq.
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

"kuhnfucius" <krkuhn@123adelphia.net > wrote in message
news:4rSdnYviDO8gUBvYnZ2dnUVZ_t-mnZ2d@adelphia.com...

Date: 18 Dec 2006 09:37:02
From: Charles Darwin
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

Date: 18 Dec 2006 13:32:24
From: kuhnfucius
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

Noted, thanks. Will put into practice.
"Charles Darwin" <CDarwin@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166463422.472050.311040@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> kuhnfucius wrote:
>> Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
>> chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I
>> was
>> in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low
>> stacks
>> to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
>> Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called.
>> I
>> called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
>> stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
>> Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have
>> been
>> about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were
>> diamonds.
>> I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would
>> have
>> hit a flush. MTIA
>
> Never, ever, ever put your tourney on the line with an all in flush
> draw decision.
>
> Just my 0.02
>

Date: 18 Dec 22:51:54
From: Super Steamer
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

On Dec 18 2006 9:37 AM, Charles Darwin wrote:
>
> Never, ever, ever put your tourney on the line with an all in flush
> draw decision.
>
> Just my 0.02

Rubbish, he has 12 outs here with 2 cards left, this is a monster overlay. Ok,
there were two eights out of circulation, but we didn't know that.

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 14:38:58
From: thenutlow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

Charles Darwin wrote:
> thenutlow wrote:
> > Charles Darwin wrote:
> > > kuhnfucius wrote:
> > > > Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
> > > > chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
> > > > in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
> > > > to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
> > > > Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
> > > > called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
> > > > stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
> > > > Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
> > > > about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
> > > > I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
> > > > hit a flush. MTIA
> > >
> > > Never, ever, ever put your tourney on the line with an all in flush
> > > draw decision.
> > >
> > > Just my 0.02
> >
> > 2 cents worth? for th
>
>
> Are you saying he should have put his tournament life on the line with
> a flush draw? Come on...

The classic case of irony is evident here.. your namesake would be
disgusting in you taking his name in vain.

I dont care about this hand, its not important in the grand scheme of
things, but what is important, is to try and have an open mind when
playing poker, and having a set guideline of what NOT TO DO, is a
terrible way to think, and more importantly, advise newer players.

Date: 18 Dec 2006 14:26:23
From: Charles Darwin
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

thenutlow wrote:
> Charles Darwin wrote:
> > kuhnfucius wrote:
> > > Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
> > > chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
> > > in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
> > > to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
> > > Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
> > > called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
> > > stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
> > > Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
> > > about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
> > > I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
> > > hit a flush. MTIA
> >
> > Never, ever, ever put your tourney on the line with an all in flush
> > draw decision.
> >
> > Just my 0.02
>
> 2 cents worth? for th

Are you saying he should have put his tournament life on the line with
a flush draw? Come on...

Date: 18 Dec 2006 14:37:26
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

> Are you saying he should have put his tournament life on the line with
> a flush draw? Come on...

The irony of your name and this advice is really amusing.

Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

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Date: 18 Dec 2006 13:35:54
From: thenutlow
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

Charles Darwin wrote:
> kuhnfucius wrote:
> > Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
> > chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I was
> > in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low stacks
> > to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
> > Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack) called. I
> > called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the small
> > stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was crippled.
> > Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have been
> > about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were diamonds.
> > I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would have
> > hit a flush. MTIA
>
> Never, ever, ever put your tourney on the line with an all in flush
> draw decision.
>
> Just my 0.02

2 cents worth? for that thoughtless drivel I hope you got 3 cents in
change.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 00:11:31
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: drawing for the flush?

"thenutlow" <allentown1876@googlemail.com > wrote in message
news:1166477754.172124.173010@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Charles Darwin wrote:
>> kuhnfucius wrote:
>> > Well, I am relatively new to poker and have played only local cash with
>> > chips games. Have done ok, but am having trouble getting over a hand I
>> > was
>> > in last evening. With four players left, I was on the button with low
>> > stacks
>> > to left and right. I had 9, 10 diamonds. The flop came 7 d, Q s, 6 d.
>> > Both small stacks went all in and the big blind (also big stack)
>> > called. I
>> > called (hugh pot). The turn and river did nothing for me, and the
>> > small
>> > stack to my right racked the pot in with just 8 c, 8 h. I was
>> > crippled.
>> > Was this a good judgement call. A diamond and the tournamet would have
>> > been
>> > about over. Turns out the of the other six cards down, none were
>> > diamonds.
>> > I had folded one hand earlier in the evening (before flop) that would
>> > have
>> > hit a flush. MTIA
>>
>> Never, ever, ever put your tourney on the line with an all in flush
>> draw decision.
>>
>> Just my 0.02
>
> 2 cents worth? for that thoughtless drivel I hope you got 3 cents in
> change.
>
Thanks, James. Glad somebody said it.

Palooka