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Main
Date: 01 Dec 2006 04:44:52
From: Old Wolf
Subject: am I weak tight? bahh
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how should I play the flop here?
PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
RJF017: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
pokrfacedave: folds
Dewack01: calls 200
SJCX: folds
Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
RJF017: calls 400
Dewack01: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
Old Wolf NZ: checks
RJF017: bets 400
Dewack01: calls 400
Old Wolf NZ: folds
*** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
RJF017: checks
Dewack01: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
RJF017: checks
Dewack01: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
Dewack01: mucks hand
RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2600
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Date: 01 Dec 16:52:14
From: CHarrison100
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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I like the play after the flop. You hit nothing and went with you gut. There was
a large pot and a small bet so a more agerssive player would have but in a
continuation bet or a semi-bluff.
I have a felling you had a read on this player and let it go because of it.
On Dec 1 2006 7:44 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
>
> PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> RJF017: posts big blind 200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> pokrfacedave: folds
> Dewack01: calls 200
> SJCX: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
> RJF017: calls 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
> RJF017: bets 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> *** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
> Dewack01: mucks hand
> RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 2600
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 07:58:58
From: Grip
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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People don't do a good job reading the hh do they? You're SB and
you're risking $500, not $600.
Anyway, your 3x raise from the SB isn't doing much. BB is getting
2.5:1 to call and the limper plenty of odds, both have position on you.
You're not forcing anyone to make a hard decision. As a value bet
it's alright, you flop an A or Q 1/3 time and you bet and everyone
folds you've got $1800 risking $500. That's ignoring when you flop a Q
with a K.
Pre flop I'dve limped along or bet 4x-5x, probably the latter if I was
in a loose-aggressive mood.
Check folding works for me. I can see the benefit of the c bet or the
push but I play more conservatively when I don't have a read on my
opponent. I don't think there's a right or wrong after the choices you
made pre flop. More of a playing style choice.
Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
>
> PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> RJF017: posts big blind 200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> pokrfacedave: folds
> Dewack01: calls 200
> SJCX: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
> RJF017: calls 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
> RJF017: bets 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> *** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
> Dewack01: mucks hand
> RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 2600
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 05:56:55
From: magicfxnm8r
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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First of all, I would have raised more than the $400 for two reasons.
1) You are on the button, and are expected to steal.
2) You don't want to give your opponents odds to call you.
a raise of $800 would be good (3x big blind + 1 caller)
After the flop, I would make a decent sized continuation bet.
This would let you know if someone held the King. It would
also probably allow you to check the turn, since you are last
to act.
Given the actual play, a continuation bet of $900 would
be a good "feeler" bet as well. If anyone comes over the
top, you can easily fold with confidence. If you get a call,
you will probably get to check the turn as Dewack01
will allow you to bet. (which you wouldn't on the turn).
I would rate your play as "passive"
BTW... Pocket 10's would have a hard time calling
your raise, but would probably call if they were agressive enough.
Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
>
> PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> RJF017: posts big blind 200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> pokrfacedave: folds
> Dewack01: calls 200
> SJCX: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
> RJF017: calls 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
> RJF017: bets 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> *** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
> Dewack01: mucks hand
> RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 2600
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 19:49:50
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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Your weak looking bet on the flop just invited people to attack you. You
played very scared.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 05:32:29
From: xyious
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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slightly more explanation....
On Dec 1 2006 1:44 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
you can either play this whole hand weak-tight or strong.
mixing and matching usually is a bad idea.
so you chose to commit 600 of your chips with a hand that will hit 1/3 of
the flops, then check/fold after missing. wouldn't it have been better to
limp along, miss the same flop, and check/fold for 400 less ?
or, make a decent raise preflop (800/1000), maybe even push preflop since
you're committing over 1/3 of your stack, and bet the flop.
the way you played it.... you check the flop, someone makes a small bet.
you need a read here.
to me the bet seems weak (400 after a 600 preflop raise, around 2k in the
pot), so check-raising all in will probably get both of them to fold.
imho, the way you played it was worse than folding preflop. (since folding
preflop would have preserved the 3rd place stack you had)
> PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> RJF017: posts big blind 200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> pokrfacedave: folds
> Dewack01: calls 200
> SJCX: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
> RJF017: calls 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
> RJF017: bets 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> *** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
> Dewack01: mucks hand
> RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 2600
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 05:00:42
From: xyious
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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On Dec 1 2006 1:44 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
>
> PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> RJF017: posts big blind 200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> pokrfacedave: folds
> Dewack01: calls 200
> SJCX: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
raise to 800.
> RJF017: calls 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
continuation bet of about 1000. (you have 1800 left, would be 1600 if you
raised 800 preflop, i may actually open push here).
> RJF017: bets 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> *** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
> Dewack01: mucks hand
> RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 2600
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 19:17:48
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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On Dec 1 2006 6:00 AM, xyious wrote:
> On Dec 1 2006 1:44 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > how should I play the flop here?
> >
> > PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> > No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> > Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> > Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> > Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> > Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> > Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> > Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> > Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> > RJF017: posts big blind 200
> > *** HOLE CARDS ***
> > Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> > pokrfacedave: folds
> > Dewack01: calls 200
> > SJCX: folds
> > Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
>
> raise to 800.
>
> > RJF017: calls 400
> > Dewack01: calls 400
> > *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> > Old Wolf NZ: checks
>
> continuation bet of about 1000. (you have 1800 left, would be 1600 if you
> raised 800 preflop, i may actually open push here).
Terrible. Beyond horrid.
Just push preflop if you are going to play like a total idiot.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 01 Dec 21:40:46
From: Teabagger
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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Option 1 (Super aggressive)
Move in. If you make the right raise (4-5xBB), you are just about pot committed,
because you will be making a continuation bet after the flop.
Option 2 (aggressive):
Raise 4-5xBB, see what happens, and plan on moving in after the flop. Since you
are out of position, $1000 is probably best - you want to win the pot now, and
plan on moving in after the flop regardless. You are committing all of your
chips here either way.
Option 3 (conservative):
Call the small blind and see what happens. Your AQ will be well disguised.
You can either:
a. See if the flop hits your hand. 2/3 of the time it won't, but the pot is
paying you 5-1 to find out. In this case you can check/fold.
b. Throw out a bet of 400 to try and steal it. If it fails, this has only cost
you $500.
Your play was pretty weak. Weak before the flop by not betting enough, weak
after the flop by not making a continuation bet. What you did was like trying to
be "half pregnant".
On Dec 1 2006 7:44 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
>
> PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
> No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
> Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
> Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
> Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
> Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
> Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
> Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
> RJF017: posts big blind 200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
> pokrfacedave: folds
> Dewack01: calls 200
> SJCX: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
> RJF017: calls 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
> RJF017: bets 400
> Dewack01: calls 400
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> *** TURN *** [3c 4d Kh] [9c]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** RIVER *** [3c 4d Kh 9c] [Ad]
> RJF017: checks
> Dewack01: checks
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> RJF017: shows [Td Th] (a pair of Tens)
> Dewack01: mucks hand
> RJF017 collected 2600 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 2600
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 19:19:43
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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On Dec 1 2006 2:40 PM, Teabagger wrote:
> Option 1 (Super aggressive)
> Move in. If you make the right raise (4-5xBB), you are just about pot
committed,
> because you will be making a continuation bet after the flop.
>
> Option 2 (aggressive):
> Raise 4-5xBB, see what happens, and plan on moving in after the flop. Since
you
> are out of position, $1000 is probably best - you want to win the pot now,
and
> plan on moving in after the flop regardless. You are committing all of your
> chips here either way.
>
> Option 3 (conservative):
> Call the small blind and see what happens. Your AQ will be well disguised.
> You can either:
> a. See if the flop hits your hand. 2/3 of the time it won't, but the pot is
> paying you 5-1 to find out. In this case you can check/fold.
> b. Throw out a bet of 400 to try and steal it. If it fails, this has only
cost
> you $500.
>
> Your play was pretty weak. Weak before the flop by not betting enough, weak
> after the flop by not making a continuation bet. What you did was like
trying to
> be "half pregnant".
I agree with this post. Good stuff.
Fell
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Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 13:35:01
From: ChrisBrown
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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On Dec 1 2006 6:44 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
I don't know, I'd have shoved before the flop.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 11:42:22
From: FaceDownAcesUp
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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All-in before the flop.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 14:24:26
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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On 1 Dec 2006 04:44:52 -0800, "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
>how should I play the flop here?
>PokerStars Game #7250996290: Tournament #37076617, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em
>No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/12/01 - 07:40:53 (ET)
>Table '37076617 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
>Seat 3: pokrfacedave (1375 in chips)
>Seat 5: Dewack01 (3590 in chips)
>Seat 6: SJCX (2160 in chips)
>Seat 8: Old Wolf NZ (2445 in chips)
>Seat 9: RJF017 (3930 in chips)
>Old Wolf NZ: posts small blind 100
>RJF017: posts big blind 200
>*** HOLE CARDS ***
>Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Ah Qs]
>pokrfacedave: folds
>Dewack01: calls 200
>SJCX: folds
>Old Wolf NZ: raises 400 to 600
>RJF017: calls 400
>Dewack01: calls 400
>*** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
>Old Wolf NZ: checks
>RJF017: bets 400
>Dewack01: calls 400
>Old Wolf NZ: folds
I usually bet out on this flop, anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the pot.
But if you don't bet, someone else does, and they get a caller, and I
have no pair and no draw, I'm gone. The better may not have a hand.
The caller probably does. And after this action, he's not going to lay
it down, so you should go away.
Checking and folding isn't that bad, though, with no particular reason
to throw away more money on this hand that hit about the worst
possible flop. There are almost no draws on it, except a very unlikely
straight draw, so what is that guy calling with? It's not a draw. It's
a made hand. Probably top pair, maybe top kicker. Anyway I don't
see a typical tournament donkey laying it down no matter what
fancy shit you do.
But I'd usually fire out on that flop anyway, representing the AK I
look like I have. I'd take a raise seriously, though. I wouldn't get
uppity with a check-raise or similar funky behavior. It's wasted on
these people.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:25:27
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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> how should I play the flop here?
Push pre-flop instead.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 20:32:04
From: JG
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
>
> *** FLOP *** [3c 4d Kh]
> Old Wolf NZ: checks
Bet. For three reasons:
1) You had the betting lead pre-flop and have already represented a
strong hand.
2) You have only 2 opponents (1 would be better, obviously, but it's
still reasonable to get 2 people to fold -- 3 would be iffy, and 4 or
more, forget it).
3) The texture of this flop is very favorable. It's unlikely to have
hit your opponents. There's a single high card, with minimal drawing
possibilities. Anyone without a K will be hard-pressed to call a
healthy bet.
JG
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 19:16:24
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: am I weak tight? bahh
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On Dec 1 2006 5:44 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> how should I play the flop here?
The underbet is suspicious, but I think a fold is in order. The only
other choice is all-in, but you are making this move as a bluff.
Fell
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Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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