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Main
Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:47:32
From: XFactor
Subject: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
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In the “Is online poker rigged?” debate, proponents of the rigged
conspiracy will say that better players are getting cheated. The odds of
their opponents catching runner-runner so frequently, they say, seems
statistically improbable or occurs with such frequency that an experienced
player would begin questioning the veracity and ethics of the hands
played. Conspiracy theorist will give examples that KK loses the majority
of the time to Ax when KK is a 70% favorite, and that AA is no good
because it to frequently loses to a small-mid pair set when it’s an 80%
favorite. Surely all of us have heard runner-runner flush stories as often
as we flush toilets. However, opponents of the conspiracy theorists trump
player observations every time by asking, “Why would the online poker
rooms want to cheat anyone?” Continuing, they’ll explain that poker rooms
are making a lot of money and that there’s too much at risk by cheating
anyone. If caught, they’ll aver, they lose everything. Essentially,
supporters of the poker rooms are offering the Christians’ “You just have
to have faith,” argument. Which is not much of an argument in and of
itself.
Poker rooms exist for one reason only: To make money. It’s an
entrepreneurial and capitalist adventure for the owners who are doing
remarkably well, and I applaud them. Yet, when the increase of power or
profits is the motivation behind a service, there will always be room for
corruption. Furthermore, when an electronic medium is the avenue for the
service, there will always be the possibility of fraud. Hence the many
grassroots political efforts to ban electronic voting machines. Due to the
nature of software and the coding required to run the system (gambling or
politics), it would not be difficult for someone to exploit an advantage -
stacking the deck in favor of the house or political party.
Read the rest of the story here:
http://xfacktor.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/why-online-poker-may-be-rigged-for-some/#more-69
_______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:06:16
From: number6
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
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Peg Smith wrote:
> salmoneous@aol.com wrote:
>
> >> Essentially,
> >> supporters of the poker rooms are offering the Christians' "You just have
> >> to have faith," argument.
> >
> >Not at all - here's the arguement: for all the folks claiming online
> >poker to be rigged, there isn't a scrap of evidence to support it. If
> >poker were rigged (in terms of non-random cards) enough for people
> >people to notice, the evidence would be overwhelmingly blatant.
>
> Absolutely. We "supporters" are also saying that anybody who thinks
> it's rigged (in other words, they're being cheated) are complete idiot
> jackasses if they continue to play.
>
> "Just have faith." LOL. That was a good one. These kids crack me up.
>
There are a lot more gambling donks online than in a regular poker room
... Calling all ins with an inside straight draw ... and the like ...
maybe because they are not physically in possession of money or chips
that represent money ... and it's a lot easier mentally to click bet
than it is to physically put chips into a pot ... like using a charge
card rather than paying cash ...
Since there are a lot more people taking chances ... there are a lot
more instances of those chances coming about ... So the bad beat
stories abound ... Personally my bad beats hurting versus benefitting
me are at least 10-1 ... Does that mean that there is a conspiracy
against me ??? Nope ... just I don't often put myself in a position
where I need a bad beat to win the hand ... and thusly don't have one
that often ... whereas the opposition at the level I play are always
calling with crap (aka 2 random cards) ... and 1/4 of the time ... boom
I'm hurt ... really just logical ... If you'd see aces winning much
more than half the time against 4 donks calling with crap ... that's
against the odds ...
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:30:59
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
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On 30 Nov 2006 09:06:16 -0800, "number6" <snumber6@aol.com > wrote:
>
>Peg Smith wrote:
>> salmoneous@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> >> Essentially,
>> >> supporters of the poker rooms are offering the Christians' "You just have
>> >> to have faith," argument.
>> >
>> >Not at all - here's the arguement: for all the folks claiming online
>> >poker to be rigged, there isn't a scrap of evidence to support it. If
>> >poker were rigged (in terms of non-random cards) enough for people
>> >people to notice, the evidence would be overwhelmingly blatant.
>>
>> Absolutely. We "supporters" are also saying that anybody who thinks
>> it's rigged (in other words, they're being cheated) are complete idiot
>> jackasses if they continue to play.
>>
>> "Just have faith." LOL. That was a good one. These kids crack me up.
>>
>
>There are a lot more gambling donks online than in a regular poker room
>... Calling all ins with an inside straight draw ... and the like ...
>maybe because they are not physically in possession of money or chips
>that represent money ... and it's a lot easier mentally to click bet
>than it is to physically put chips into a pot ... like using a charge
>card rather than paying cash ...
>
>Since there are a lot more people taking chances ... there are a lot
>more instances of those chances coming about ... So the bad beat
>stories abound ... Personally my bad beats hurting versus benefitting
>me are at least 10-1 ... Does that mean that there is a conspiracy
>against me ??? Nope ... just I don't often put myself in a position
>where I need a bad beat to win the hand ... and thusly don't have one
>that often ... whereas the opposition at the level I play are always
>calling with crap (aka 2 random cards) ... and 1/4 of the time ... boom
>I'm hurt ... really just logical ... If you'd see aces winning much
>more than half the time against 4 donks calling with crap ... that's
>against the odds ...
It's simpler than that. There are many more hands played.
Players who take a lot of bad beats might be fourtabling online.
That's about 240 hands an hour. Live is, what, 30?
And the bad beats are more salient. You just don't even remember the
seven times your aces held up. You only remember the one time they
were cracked. But if you look at your pokertracker, you can see that
your aces have been winning as expected.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:09:39
From:
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
> Essentially,
> supporters of the poker rooms are offering the Christians' "You just have
> to have faith," argument.
Not at all - here's the arguement: for all the folks claiming online
poker to be rigged, there isn't a scrap of evidence to support it. If
poker were rigged (in terms of non-random cards) enough for people
people to notice, the evidence would be overwhelmingly blatant.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:48:53
From: Peg Smith
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
salmoneous@aol.com wrote:
>> Essentially,
>> supporters of the poker rooms are offering the Christians' "You just have
>> to have faith," argument.
>
>Not at all - here's the arguement: for all the folks claiming online
>poker to be rigged, there isn't a scrap of evidence to support it. If
>poker were rigged (in terms of non-random cards) enough for people
>people to notice, the evidence would be overwhelmingly blatant.
Absolutely. We "supporters" are also saying that anybody who thinks
it's rigged (in other words, they're being cheated) are complete idiot
jackasses if they continue to play.
"Just have faith." LOL. That was a good one. These kids crack me up.
Peg
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 03:59:08
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
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If online sites were rigged to help the bad players wouldnt that get
proven and/or dirve away the good players who should be smart enough to
no let themselves be cheated?
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:44:35
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
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Dr Zen wrote:
> It's simpler than that. There are many more hands played.
And there's a certain irony that, in the forum where rigged bad beats
should be the easiest to prove, no proof ever seems to come up.
Evidence could be collected more than twice as quickly as in a a B&M
casino, with digital precision and electronic record keeping. The
evidence could be encrypted, protected, with copies saved in dozens of
places for protection, and distributed at light speed, making an after
the fact cover up impossible.
But nobody ever seems to come forward, do they?
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 11:59:44
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
On 30 Nov 2006 15:44:35 -0800, "Bill Ricardi"
<billricardi@googlemail.com > wrote:
>
>Dr Zen wrote:
>
>
>> It's simpler than that. There are many more hands played.
>
>
>And there's a certain irony that, in the forum where rigged bad beats
>should be the easiest to prove, no proof ever seems to come up.
>
>
>Evidence could be collected more than twice as quickly as in a a B&M
>casino, with digital precision and electronic record keeping. The
>evidence could be encrypted, protected, with copies saved in dozens of
>places for protection, and distributed at light speed, making an after
>the fact cover up impossible.
>
>
>But nobody ever seems to come forward, do they?
No, it's quite astonishing really that these players are winning *all
the time* (just not as much as they ought to) but they do not use
pokertracker or any other data-gathering software.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 22:02:36
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
Tony Popejoy wrote:
> You 2 should start your own detective service. "Dumb and Dumber".
Don't you mean 'Dumber and Dumest'?
>
>
> Tony Popejoy
>
> On Nov 30 2006 8:59 PM, Dr Zen wrote:
>
> > On 30 Nov 2006 15:44:35 -0800, "Bill Ricardi"
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Dr Zen wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> It's simpler than that. There are many more hands played.
> > >
> > >
> > >And there's a certain irony that, in the forum where rigged bad beats
> > >should be the easiest to prove, no proof ever seems to come up.
> > >
> > >
> > >Evidence could be collected more than twice as quickly as in a a B&M
> > >casino, with digital precision and electronic record keeping. The
> > >evidence could be encrypted, protected, with copies saved in dozens of
> > >places for protection, and distributed at light speed, making an after
> > >the fact cover up impossible.
> > >
> > >
> > >But nobody ever seems to come forward, do they?
> >
> > No, it's quite astonishing really that these players are winning *all
> > the time* (just not as much as they ought to) but they do not use
> > pokertracker or any other data-gathering software.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dr Zen
> > King of the wild pixels.
> > http://gollyg.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 01 Dec
From: Tony Popejoy
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
You 2 should start your own detective service. "Dumb and Dumber".
Tony Popejoy
On Nov 30 2006 8:59 PM, Dr Zen wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2006 15:44:35 -0800, "Bill Ricardi"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Dr Zen wrote:
> >
> >
> >> It's simpler than that. There are many more hands played.
> >
> >
> >And there's a certain irony that, in the forum where rigged bad beats
> >should be the easiest to prove, no proof ever seems to come up.
> >
> >
> >Evidence could be collected more than twice as quickly as in a a B&M
> >casino, with digital precision and electronic record keeping. The
> >evidence could be encrypted, protected, with copies saved in dozens of
> >places for protection, and distributed at light speed, making an after
> >the fact cover up impossible.
> >
> >
> >But nobody ever seems to come forward, do they?
>
> No, it's quite astonishing really that these players are winning *all
> the time* (just not as much as they ought to) but they do not use
> pokertracker or any other data-gathering software.
>
> --
>
> Dr Zen
> King of the wild pixels.
> http://gollyg.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 14:24:01
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
On Fri, 01 Dec 06 4:09:12 GMT, Tony Popejoy <ttpope212@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>
> You 2 should start your own detective service. "Dumb and Dumber".
>
I'd laugh that much harder if you were smart enough not to top post
when you're calling me dumb.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 01 Dec
From: Tony Popejoy
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
I would laugh that much harder if you actually had a fucking clue.
Tony Popejoy
On Nov 30 2006 11:24 PM, Dr Zen wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 06 4:09:12 GMT, Tony Popejoy
> wrote:
>
> >
> > You 2 should start your own detective service. "Dumb and Dumber".
> >
>
> I'd laugh that much harder if you were smart enough not to top post
> when you're calling me dumb.
>
> --
>
> Dr Zen
> King of the wild pixels.
> http://gollyg.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 16:19:22
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
On Fri, 01 Dec 06 4:35:20 GMT, Tony Popejoy <ttpope212@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>
> I would laugh that much harder if you actually had a fucking clue.
>
Jeezus, however good you are poker, you just haven't mastered flames
that actually mean anything, have you?
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:37:19
From: RazzO
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
Don't you mean 'dumber and dumbest'?
RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
> Don't you mean 'Dumber and Dumest'?
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:28:17
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:47:32 -0800, "XFactor" <xfacktor@gmail.com >
wrote:
>In the “Is online poker rigged?” debate, proponents of the rigged
>conspiracy will say that better players are getting cheated. The odds of
>their opponents catching runner-runner so frequently, they say, seems
>statistically improbable or occurs with such frequency that an experienced
>player would begin questioning the veracity and ethics of the hands
>played. Conspiracy theorist will give examples that KK loses the majority
>of the time to Ax when KK is a 70% favorite, and that AA is no good
>because it to frequently loses to a small-mid pair set when it’s an 80%
>favorite. Surely all of us have heard runner-runner flush stories as often
>as we flush toilets. However, opponents of the conspiracy theorists trump
>player observations every time by asking, “Why would the online poker
>rooms want to cheat anyone?” Continuing, they’ll explain that poker rooms
>are making a lot of money and that there’s too much at risk by cheating
>anyone. If caught, they’ll aver, they lose everything. Essentially,
>supporters of the poker rooms are offering the Christians’ “You just have
>to have faith,” argument. Which is not much of an argument in and of
>itself.
>
>Poker rooms exist for one reason only: To make money. It’s an
>entrepreneurial and capitalist adventure for the owners who are doing
>remarkably well, and I applaud them. Yet, when the increase of power or
>profits is the motivation behind a service, there will always be room for
>corruption. Furthermore, when an electronic medium is the avenue for the
>service, there will always be the possibility of fraud. Hence the many
>grassroots political efforts to ban electronic voting machines. Due to the
>nature of software and the coding required to run the system (gambling or
>politics), it would not be difficult for someone to exploit an advantage -
>stacking the deck in favor of the house or political party.
>
You do not play the house.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 03:01:33
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
Dr Zen wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2006 15:44:35 -0800, "Bill Ricardi"
> No, it's quite astonishing really that these players are winning *all
> the time* (just not as much as they ought to) but they do not use
> pokertracker or any other data-gathering software.
Well the funny thing here is, if you ARE winning all the time, even if
you do use tracking software, you would never want to show your
database to anyone and give away how you play online.
But if you're losing all the time, and you've 'given up on online poker
because of how rigged it is', then there's no real excuse is there?
They probably suck and don't want to wilt under the light of analysis.
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 01:45:58
From: storman99
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
i have played over 500.000k hands on line and up a little money and i
do think it is rigged.
as what poker tracker says the percentages are right on the money for
the hole cards and getting trips str8s, flushes, ect are all right on
the money. so theres nothing rigged about the type of hands that you
get but when you hit your hand someone has alittle better hand
then yours i think more often then it should. of course i dont have
proof and i dont know if willson software can give you this percentage
on how often a str8 are a flush will get beat. (i dont have that
software)
i do notice but no proof that you win with your first deposit on a site
then it takes about 50 to 100k hands before turning a small profit.
know the only way i think to prove if it is rigged is to get 100
players from all over the country. 50 new and 50 players with 100k
hands played. where every one plays the same way by useing the same
softwares such as hand calculator are something like that and poker
tracker ( this is not a spam i downloaded one of this softwares a
couple of years ago but never hardly use it ) and i think the 50
players with the most hands played will win more then the other 50.
thers many other things you could do like going all in preflop when
your 100% behind with one of the other players, are mybe chip dumping.
(could go into more detail thats a start)
.
this should work to prove if its rigged are not if everyone had about
100.000k hands
this sounds crazy and i dont think you could get a 100 players to do
this but how else could you porove it.
XFactor wrote:
> In the "Is online poker rigged?" debate, proponents of the rigged
> conspiracy will say that better players are getting cheated. The odds of> Read the rest of the story here:
> http://xfacktor.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/why-online-poker-may-be-rigged-for-some/#more-69
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 01:40:46
From: storman99
Subject: Re: Why online poker may be rigged - for some
|
i have played over 500.000k hands on line and up a little money and i
do think it is rigged.
as what poker tracker says the percentages are right on the money for
the hole cards and getting trips str8s, flushes, ect are all right on
the money. so theres nothing rigged about the type of hands that you
get but when you hit your hand someone has alittle better hand
then yours i think more often then it should. of course i dont have
proof and i dont know if willson software can give you this percentage
on how often a str8 are a flush will get beat. (i dont have that
software)
i do notice but no proof that you win with your first deposit on a site
then it takes about 50 to 100k hands before turning a small profit.
know the only way i think to prove if it is rigged is to get 100
players from all over the country. 50 new and 50 players with 100k
hands played. where every one plays the same way by useing the same
softwares such as hand calculator are something like that and poker
tracker ( this is not a spam i downloaded one of this softwares a
couple of years ago but never hardly use it ) and i think the 50
players with the most hands played will win more then the other 50.
thers many other things you could do like going all in preflop when
your 100% behind with one of the other players, are mybe chip dumping.
(could go into more detail thats a start)
.
this should work to prove if its rigged are not if everyone had about
100.000k hands
this sounds crazy and i dont think you could get a 100 players to do
this but how else could you porove it.
XFactor wrote:
> In the "Is online poker rigged?" debate, proponents of the rigged
> conspiracy will say that better players are getting cheated. The odds of> Read the rest of the story here:
> http://xfacktor.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/why-online-poker-may-be-rigged-for-some/#more-69
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
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