What to do with JJ?

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Date: 06 Dec 14:51:44
From: Chris Robinson
Subject: What to do with JJ?

1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.

Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.

Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?

- Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
- Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
- Jam and hope no one has the 9.

I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
saved my chips, but was it the right play?

_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 06 Dec 18:45:01
From: Teabagger
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

You should have raised more pre-flop. $100 - $120 looks about right. For some
reason $80 will get called by the donks, but $100 won't.

It's debatable whether to raise here on the turn. I would have gotten all I
needed to know on the flop. This early in the tournament, I'm just about done
with the hand. With that board, someone holding a 9 would just call the flop.
Checking the turn makes sense. If someone bets out a small amount here, I would
just call. If the bet is larger, I'd probably dump it.

You made the right move.

On Dec 6 2006 9:51 AM, Chris Robinson wrote:

>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 06 Dec 18:26:11
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

This early in an SNG, I normally played JJ from EP like AA/KK AND a small pair,
that is, I would even limped with one limper ahead of me. If someone in later
position re-opens the betting, I jam, or at least pot commit myself with a big
reraise. You be surprised at the junk some people would call with....If I don't
get the chance to reraise, time to tighten-up, and play those jacks like a small
pair, and adopt the no set, no bet rule.

A standard raise is hard to thin the field at this stage, and as soon as
you picked up one caller, you will get many more from later positions with some
very creative hands, not really an ideal situation for JJ out of position.

On Dec 6 2006 2:51 PM, Chris Robinson wrote:

>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 06 Dec 2006 09:29:22
From: Tad Perry
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

"Chris Robinson" <43082565@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1165416704$917194@recpoker.com...
>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP
to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?

You know that two different people have continued. What can they have?
Someone has a nine. What else could it be? Maybe a straight draw with JT,
and maybe another pair. Maybe even a monster like 99 or 77. Anyway, when you
break it down, there is a strong chance you are against a better hand and
hold a two-card out. If you look at them as jacks, you might be tempted to
bet. If you look at them as a two-card out, you're starting to think in more
advanced terms.

> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?

YES!

Then on the river you USE your position and WATCH what they do.

There is a best play for each possibility:

YOU DON'T IMPROVE:

1) It's an easy fold if the action is a bet followed by raise or even a bet
and a call.

2) If the first player checks and the second bets, you're looking at a guy
who can call two different people on the flop and can now put money in.
Maybe you can make a move, maybe your hand is good, but even so, just dump
it and use your chips somewhere else even if it is a bluff. The last thing
you want is make a big raise and the first or second player suddenly calls
and shows you that nine.

3) Both players check. Your hand is probably good. If you think you can get
a seven to pay off, you can bet. Or just roll it over and pat yourself on
the back those times (and there will be some) that you dodged a bullet.

YOU DO IMPROVE:

1) You've just made jacks full in position. You don't need me to tell you
what to do.

tvp

Date: 06 Dec 16:55:29
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 9:51 AM, Chris Robinson wrote:

>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

I check, but not to get a free card. I check to try to keep the pot relatively
small, figuring that a 9 from the button will bet here and a 9 from ep will lead
out on the river. I'm scared of a lot of cards on the river, but I hate jamming
here, and betting anything smaller (500?) and then folding to a raise is just so
weak. I certainly fold once the button jams.

_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 06 Dec 2006 08:53:12
From:
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

Brian Skills wrote:
>
>
> To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
> all of your stack. If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other on
> a draw then at best you're 70%. It's too early to take that kind of a
> chance.

I'm not good enough to give up a 70-30 edge, even if it's the first
hand......and i play tight.

But the allin and call in front of me would generate a fold roughly
100% of the time.

Date: 06 Dec 2006 09:16:04
From: Brian Skills
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

<sam_king@nl.rogers.com > wrote in message
news:1165423992.290103.171120@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Brian Skills wrote:
>>
>>
>> To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
>> all of your stack. If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other
>> on
>> a draw then at best you're 70%. It's too early to take that kind of a
>> chance.
>
>
> I'm not good enough to give up a 70-30 edge, even if it's the first
> hand......and i play tight.
>
> But the allin and call in front of me would generate a fold roughly
> 100% of the time.
>

You're right. I didn't express myself clearly.

If I knew I had a 70% chance then I'd take it.

In this situation though, IF you put one guy on a seven AND put the other on
some type of draw THEN you're 70% to win.

I should have said, too many variables and too early in the tourney to risk
a serious investment.

--
I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
strippers.
Brian Cadd

Date: 06 Dec 2006 08:32:28
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 7:51 AM, Chris Robinson wrote:

> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?

This is probably the best option, in my opinion. The board isn't really
drawish, unless they have T8 or 68 they can't really be drawing (not to
mention that if they have T8 then a J is death for them, since it would
fill you up at the same time it made them a straight). It's very unlikely
that one of them has AK/AQ/AJ/AT/KQ/KJ/KT/QJ here, so overcards aren't too
scary for you (an A would be trouble, since one of them could have A7 or
something like that).

Given that, it's fairly likely that one of them has a 9.

> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)

I wouldn't. The smoothe call is scary on that flop, especially at this
level, where people like to slowplay to the death.

> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.

Worst possible option.

>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

Yes. When a person smoothe calls you like that, you have to ask yourself
what kinds of hands they would do that with. Since there is no flush
draw, that leaves straight draws, pairs, and trips. Play accordingly.

~ MysteriAce

"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"

_______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 06 Dec 2006 11:32:30
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

Date: 06 Dec 2006 07:44:18
From: Brian Skills
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad in
the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
then I want to check down.

To answer your question, I think you made the right play. You're bet on the
flop asked a question, does anyone like this flop? Two calls sound alarm
bells. You could be looking at either of them having an over pair, 99, 77,
97s, T9s, 98s, etc...

To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
all of your stack. If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other on
a draw then at best you're 70%. It's too early to take that kind of a
chance. Either you're beat or they're in there with shit. If they're the
type of players that are still in this pot with nothing then you'll be able
to out play them later.

--
I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
strippers.
Brian Cadd

"Chris Robinson" <43082565@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1165416704$917194@recpoker.com...
>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
> I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP
> to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit
> yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded.
> Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because
> I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 06 Dec 2006 09:04:42
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 8:44 AM, Brian Skills wrote:

> First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad in
> the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
> that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
> your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
> limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
> then I want to check down.

That is a really weak way to play the hand, yes.

> To answer your question, I think you made the right play. You're bet on the
> flop asked a question, does anyone like this flop? Two calls sound alarm
> bells. You could be looking at either of them having an over pair, 99, 77,
> 97s, T9s, 98s, etc...
>
> To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
> all of your stack.

Huh? The pot is 330 ... he has 1420 in his stack. A meaningful bet is
giong to HAVE to be 900-1420 on the flop???

> If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other on
> a draw then at best you're 70%.

What draw? Keep in mind that T8 is an excellent hand to be up against.
Do you see why?

> It's too early to take that kind of a
> chance. Either you're beat or they're in there with shit. If they're the
> type of players that are still in this pot with nothing then you'll be able
> to out play them later.
>
>
> --
> I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
> strippers.
> Brian Cadd
>
> "Chris Robinson" <43082565@recpoker.com> wrote in message
> news:1165416704$917194@recpoker.com...
> >
> > 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
> > I
> > raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
> >
> > Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP
> > to
> > smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
> >
> > Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
> >
> > - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> > - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit
> > yourself?)
> > - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
> >
> > I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded.
> > Button
> > showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because
> > I
> > saved my chips, but was it the right play?
> >

~ MysteriAce

"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"

____________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com

Date: 06 Dec 2006 10:40:31
From: Brian Skills
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

"MysteriAce" <a9c1edc@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:aq9j44xuc1.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 6 2006 8:44 AM, Brian Skills wrote:
>
>> First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad
>> in
>> the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
>> that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
>> your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
>> limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
>> then I want to check down.
>
> That is a really weak way to play the hand, yes.
>

Sure it's weak.

>> To answer your question, I think you made the right play. You're bet on
>> the
>> flop asked a question, does anyone like this flop? Two calls sound alarm
>> bells. You could be looking at either of them having an over pair, 99,
>> 77,
>> 97s, T9s, 98s, etc...
>>
>> To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
>> all of your stack.
>
> Huh? The pot is 330 ... he has 1420 in his stack. A meaningful bet is
> giong to HAVE to be 900-1420 on the flop???

The OP's question was about what to do on the turn and that's what I was
reffering to. Perhaps I wasn't clear (again). I was having my first cup of
coffee.

>
>> If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other on
>> a draw then at best you're 70%.
>
> What draw? Keep in mind that T8 is an excellent hand to be up against.
> Do you see why?

I don't know what draw. I think I set one player up with 86s and the other
up with A7s to come up with the 70%. I guess I wasn't clear on my point. If
you can put one on a seven, and the other on a draw (which I don't think you
can do ) then you're sitting at 70%.

--
I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
strippers.
Brian Cadd

Date: 06 Dec 2006 11:05:03
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 11:40 AM, Brian Skills wrote:

> "MysteriAce" <a9c1edc@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aq9j44xuc1.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Dec 6 2006 8:44 AM, Brian Skills wrote:
> >
> >> First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad
> >> in
> >> the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
> >> that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
> >> your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
> >> limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
> >> then I want to check down.
> >
> > That is a really weak way to play the hand, yes.
> >
>
> Sure it's weak.

Fair enough.

> >> To answer your question, I think you made the right play. You're bet on
> >> the
> >> flop asked a question, does anyone like this flop? Two calls sound alarm
> >> bells. You could be looking at either of them having an over pair, 99,
> >> 77,
> >> 97s, T9s, 98s, etc...
> >>
> >> To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
> >> all of your stack.
> >
> > Huh? The pot is 330 ... he has 1420 in his stack. A meaningful bet is
> > giong to HAVE to be 900-1420 on the flop???
>
> The OP's question was about what to do on the turn and that's what I was
> reffering to. Perhaps I wasn't clear (again). I was having my first cup of
> coffee.

My bad. I agree, any bet on the turn would have to be commital.

> >
> >> If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other on
> >> a draw then at best you're 70%.
> >
> > What draw? Keep in mind that T8 is an excellent hand to be up against.
> > Do you see why?
>
> I don't know what draw. I think I set one player up with 86s and the other
> up with A7s to come up with the 70%. I guess I wasn't clear on my point. If
> you can put one on a seven, and the other on a draw (which I don't think you
> can do ) then you're sitting at 70%.

OK. I think we're headed in the same direction. My point was that there
was probably no draw, and I see now that is pretty much your point, too.

> --
> I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
> strippers.
> Brian Cadd

~ MysteriAce

"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"

________________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 06 Dec 16:56:55
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 10:44 AM, Brian Skills wrote:

> First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad in
> the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
> that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
> your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
> limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
> then I want to check down.

I think that's absurd. You figure to be ahead of most hands. If people want to
give their money away, let them.

>
> To answer your question, I think you made the right play. You're bet on the
> flop asked a question, does anyone like this flop? Two calls sound alarm
> bells. You could be looking at either of them having an over pair, 99, 77,
> 97s, T9s, 98s, etc...
>
> To make a meaningful bet here you are going to have to commit most if not
> all of your stack. If you put one of them on a 7 (say A7s) and the other on
> a draw then at best you're 70%. It's too early to take that kind of a
> chance. Either you're beat or they're in there with shit. If they're the
> type of players that are still in this pot with nothing then you'll be able
> to out play them later.
>
>
> --
> I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
> strippers.
> Brian Cadd
>
> "Chris Robinson" <43082565@recpoker.com> wrote in message
> news:1165416704$917194@recpoker.com...
> >
> > 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
> > I
> > raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
> >
> > Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP
> > to
> > smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
> >
> > Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
> >
> > - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> > - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit
> > yourself?)
> > - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
> >
> > I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded.
> > Button
> > showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because
> > I
> > saved my chips, but was it the right play?
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > The Largest Online Poker Community - /

_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com

Date: 06 Dec 2006 10:26:27
From: Brian Skills
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

"steve1127" <43080896@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1165424215$917276@recpoker.com...
>
>
>
> On Dec 6 2006 10:44 AM, Brian Skills wrote:
>
>> First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad
>> in
>> the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
>> that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
>> your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
>> limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
>> then I want to check down.
>
> I think that's absurd. You figure to be ahead of most hands. If people
> want to
> give their money away, let them.
>

How are people going to give their money away?

In my experience if you raise here preflop you're going to get a reraise and
it's probably going to be all in. For the first round or so of these
tourneys I'm not going broke with anything less than Aces or Kings before
the flop. I'm playing all my pairs QQ on down to flop a set and triple up
when I get two callers.

Do you play in these type of tournaments?

--
I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
strippers.
Brian Cadd

Date: 06 Dec 18:45:38
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 1:26 PM, Brian Skills wrote:

> "steve1127" <43080896@recpoker.com> wrote in message
> news:1165424215$917276@recpoker.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 6 2006 10:44 AM, Brian Skills wrote:
> >
> >> First off I wouldn't get myself into this situation. Play is horribly bad
> >> in
> >> the early stages of these micro buy in events. There is a rash of players
> >> that will be moving in with anything in the opening rounds. I'm suprised
> >> your raise wasn't answered by a reraise and then a re-reraise all in. I'm
> >> limping w/ jacks. Trying to get in cheap and flop a set. If I don't hit,
> >> then I want to check down.
> >
> > I think that's absurd. You figure to be ahead of most hands. If people
> > want to
> > give their money away, let them.
> >
>
>
> How are people going to give their money away?
>
> In my experience if you raise here preflop you're going to get a reraise and
> it's probably going to be all in. For the first round or so of these
> tourneys I'm not going broke with anything less than Aces or Kings before
> the flop. I'm playing all my pairs QQ on down to flop a set and triple up
> when I get two callers.
>
> Do you play in these type of tournaments?
>
>
I certainly have played in many of them, yes. And although I agree that you'll
sometimes get a reraise behind you, I don't think that it'll happen most of the
time. And if you really think that it does happen most of the time, then I'd be
willing to go with JJ, since it figures to be the best hand dealt most deals.
If I get to double up or play something else on the first hand of a low-buy-in
MTT with what should be the best hand, then I'm willing to do it.

> --
> I hate beer, whiskey, cigars, horseracing, poker and football. And
> strippers.
> Brian Cadd

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Date: 06 Dec 15:18:21
From: nkks0808
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

You got lucky that he jammed and the other guy called....otherwise I doubt you
can get away from it, because he could be bluffing, have a 9, a 7, 1010.....etc.

I would bet on the turn but not pot committ, probably another 320 ish, leaving
you with around 850 if you lose, still plenty at 10/20 blinds.

Most people make their move on the turn......so if he moves in on you, you can
bail if you believe him. 2 smooth callers = uh oh.

It's easy when two people make that action, but I would bet out there, and make
them react to that.

On Dec 6 2006 8:51 AM, Chris Robinson wrote:

>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?
Niki :P
www.nikitispoker.com

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Date: 06 Dec 2006 07:10:44
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6 2006 9:51 AM, Chris Robinson wrote:

> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

I don't see much of a problem. I might've called the button's jam by
itself (he can be making a position play, could have a 7 and figure you
for overcards, a host of other things that don't = 9), but once you have a
jam and a call on an otherwise boring board, JJ no good.

--------
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Date: 07 Dec
From: Chris Robinson
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

What then do you do with JJ in this same situation if the EP player folds
instead of calls. How does that change the situation you're in against a 9974
board and an all-in bet from the button??

On Dec 6 2006 9:51 AM, Chris Robinson wrote:

>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

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Date: 06 Dec 2006 18:59:51
From:
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

Chris Robinson wrote:
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com

Only change I'd make is to raise more pre-flop. For the first couple of
levels in a $5 tourney a 5XBB raise to open is needed, but with limpers
in the pot you should definitely charge more, say 8X or 10X the BB. I
used to make standard raises till I remember Harrington suggesting
larger raises are needed online, and I find this to be paticularly true
in the early stages of the tourney. Once the blinds get past 50/25 you
can normally shift back to normal 3X the BB raising.

Date: 06 Dec 2006 18:49:40
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

Date: 06 Dec 2006 18:22:51
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Wed, 06 Dec 06 14:51:44 GMT, Chris Robinson <43082565@recpoker.com > wrote:

>1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
>raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.

>Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
>smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.

>Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?

Shove it all in and then yell "So I suppose he'll call THIS too, he's got a
nine, he's got a nine! I'll just SHOVE IT ALL IN!!! I CAN LOSE TWO BUYINS!
GOD BLESS AMERICA! Son of a GODDAMN BITCH! SON OF A BITCH!"

Date: 06 Dec 2006 12:38:46
From: tvp
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

Stephen Jacobs wrote:
> "Chris Robinson" <43082565@recpoker.com> wrote in message
> news:1165416704$917194@recpoker.com...
> >
> > 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
> > I
> > raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
> >
> > Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP
> > to
> > smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
> >
> > Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
> >
> > - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> > - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit
> > yourself?)
> > - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
> >
>
> I'll throw a variation up for discussion: in alow-buy-in MTT an early
> bust-out is a good result. The flop looks good, so push with it.
> Unfortunately, in this instance, the 9 has you. But most of the time,
> you rake a worthwhile pot. Just occasionally, you take all of the A7's
> chips.

I have to disagree with you. I'd say there's no way that "most of the
time, you rake a worthwhile pot." Against typical players, someone has
a nine or something even stronger about 75% with this board and this
action. An A7 might call, but it also might fold. There's no guarantee.
A jam on the turn is the classic "the only thing that can call easily
probably beats you" type of bets and you don't want to make those.

Now if you're saying this is a great chance to go busted and rebuy, I
can't disagree.

tvp

Date: 06 Dec 2006 12:11:54
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

On Dec 6, 6:51 am, Chris Robinson <43082...@recpoker.com > wrote:
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps & I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded. Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community -http://www.recpoker.com

Raise to 12xBB preflop, then fold the flop no matter what hits. Got
that advice for playing JJ from Morphy, and it's done wonders for my
NLHE game (not to mention my peace of mind).

Date: 06 Dec 2006 12:07:39
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

"Chris Robinson" <43082565@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1165416704$917194@recpoker.com...
>
> 1st hand of a $5.50 MTT & I'm dealt JJ in MP. Blinds are 10/20. EP limps &
> I
> raise to 80. Get the button, the BB and the EP to call. 330 in the pot.
>
> Flop is 997 rainbow. BB & EP check, I bet 250 & get the button and the EP
> to
> smooth call. 1080 now in the pot, we each have 1170 left.
>
> Turn is a 4. EP checks. What do you do?
>
> - Check, and hope to peel off a free card?
> - Bet but not pot commit yourself (or maybe you bet to pot commit
> yourself?)
> - Jam and hope no one has the 9.
>
> I ended up checking, the button moved in & the EP called so I folded.
> Button
> showed T9s and the EP showed A7o. In the end it was the best play because
> I
> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

Preflop:
I like your play here. JJ is (IMHO) the single hardest hand to play in
NLHE, because if it's unraised to you preflop, you really are in a must
raise situation, since you already have a limper the raise to $80 (4x BB )
seems about right.

On the flop: you made a probing bet (also correct IMHO) of roughly 75% of
the pot and the button was also correct to simply cold call here, as the
only things that scares him are exactly 77 or 97 at this point.

Turn play: This is where this hand gets "tricky", as you're probably
thinking one of them *must* be holding a 9 or an overpair (3 of 5 overpairs
have you beaten one has you tied) since both cold called the flop bet. They
could also be holding T8 (although unlikely) and possibly, athough it would
be like looking for monsters under the bed, one could be holding 99 or 97.
I also like to "Check to see where I stand" here. Once the button moves in
your play is completely determined by the EP player, once he calls there is
no way in hades you can still believe you are ahead in this pot and IMHO the
only play is to MUCK.

Early round play in small buy-in sng's is usually best avoided unless you
have a VERY strong hand, you knew as soon as the EP player called that your
only choice was to muck. I think you played the hand perfectly. You
invested as little as possible to try and win what could have ended up a
huge pot if both check the turn and you catch a two-outer or you are already
in the lead and all check on the river. Well done.

Again, JMHO

Rick "DaVoice" Charles

Date: 07 Dec 2006 07:06:32
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: What to do with JJ?

> saved my chips, but was it the right play?

phlash74 was the only one who answered this correctly. Per the protocol,
the rest of you owe me 1BB. Please send to XaQ Morphy on Stars or
FullTilt. Thanks.

Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

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