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Main
Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:24:17
From: brewmaster
Subject: What do you think of this play?
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I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
$60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7 tables
started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800. One
limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop all
small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and flings
it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two big
diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call. He
shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to his
word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide he
had nothing.
Good call/bad call?
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:36:21
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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Good call, good reasoning.
The only thing you are worried about is a set. Which could happen with
a small pair, and an overly aggressive opponent.
Against a pair < Q you are actually the favorite in the hand. So a
totally fine call... You may or may not make it.
Against an unpaired diamond draw you are a huge favorite.
The naysayers, were just nay-naysayin'.
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Date: 30 Nov 19:23:09
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Nov 30 2006 1:36 PM, johnny T wrote:
> Good call, good reasoning.
>
> The only thing you are worried about is a set. Which could happen with
> a small pair, and an overly aggressive opponent.
>
> Against a pair < Q you are actually the favorite in the hand. So a
> totally fine call... You may or may not make it.
>
> Against an unpaired diamond draw you are a huge favorite.
>
> The naysayers, were just nay-naysayin'.
Actually, if his opponent had Kd8d and the board was 7d4d2s, then the K8 is a
55-45 favorite. And if his opponent has 99 (no diamond) then the 99 is ahead
74-26. Not sure how you did your math...
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:00:15
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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steve1127 wrote:
>
> On Nov 30 2006 1:36 PM, johnny T wrote:
>
>> Good call, good reasoning.
>>
>> The only thing you are worried about is a set. Which could happen with
>> a small pair, and an overly aggressive opponent.
>>
>> Against a pair < Q you are actually the favorite in the hand. So a
>> totally fine call... You may or may not make it.
>>
>> Against an unpaired diamond draw you are a huge favorite.
>>
>> The naysayers, were just nay-naysayin'.
>
> Actually, if his opponent had Kd8d and the board was 7d4d2s, then the K8 is a
> 55-45 favorite. And if his opponent has 99 (no diamond) then the 99 is ahead
> 74-26. Not sure how you did your math...
Misread the question. I thought he said AdQd. Those extra outs make
all the difference <grin >
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:00:36
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Nov 30 2006 12:00 PM, johnny T wrote:
> steve1127 wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 30 2006 1:36 PM, johnny T wrote:
> >
> >> Good call, good reasoning.
> >>
> >> The only thing you are worried about is a set. Which could happen with
> >> a small pair, and an overly aggressive opponent.
> >>
> >> Against a pair < Q you are actually the favorite in the hand. So a
> >> totally fine call... You may or may not make it.
> >>
> >> Against an unpaired diamond draw you are a huge favorite.
> >>
> >> The naysayers, were just nay-naysayin'.
> >
> > Actually, if his opponent had Kd8d and the board was 7d4d2s, then the K8
is a
> > 55-45 favorite. And if his opponent has 99 (no diamond) then the 99 is
ahead
> > 74-26. Not sure how you did your math...
>
> Misread the question. I thought he said AdQd. Those extra outs make
> all the difference <grin>
No, I had clubs. If I had diamonds my chips beat his into the pot and I
don't make this stupid post.
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Date: 30 Nov 18:19:47
From: IdiotSavant
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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If you made the play based on a read, great play.. If you made it based on the
math, then it wasn't.
If you opponent had a pair with a diamond, you are almost 4:1 underdog; a made
flush, you are drawing dead.
If he's making the play with a high diamond, no pair. then your equity is close
to fifty percent with an overlay in the pot with no chance of going
broke. Hence, the ability to analyze the situation is the keystone to the
decision.
On Nov 30 2006 11:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
> I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
>
> Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7 tables
> started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
> the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800. One
> limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop all
> small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and flings
> it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two big
> diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call. He
> shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to his
> word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide he
> had nothing.
>
> Good call/bad call?
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:51:53
From: Kinnipak
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Nov 30 2006 10:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
> I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
>
> Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7 tables
> started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
> the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800. One
> limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop all
> small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and flings
> it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two big
> diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call. He
> shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to his
> word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide he
> had nothing.
>
> Good call/bad call?
what shit could someone give you for that? And why would you care? You
made the call based on the input you deciphered from his actions and went
with it. I love tables where people are talking and talking. You can
pretty much hang a sign on the ones who have hands based on the way they
slow down or speed up their banter.
jmo.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:54:47
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Nov 30 2006 9:51 AM, Kinnipak wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 10:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
>
> > I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
> >
> > Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> > $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> > rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7 tables
> > started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
> > the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800. One
> > limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop all
> > small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and flings
> > it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> > won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> > never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> > of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two big
> > diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> > pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> > thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call. He
> > shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to his
> > word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide he
> > had nothing.
> >
> > Good call/bad call?
>
> what shit could someone give you for that? And why would you care? You
> made the call based on the input you deciphered from his actions and went
> with it. I love tables where people are talking and talking. You can
> pretty much hang a sign on the ones who have hands based on the way they
> slow down or speed up their banter.
>
> jmo.
I dunno, sometimes it seems like I make plays like this and others feel
like I got lucky on it, so it was the wrong play. I thought it was the
correct one, but I guess it is pretty close.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:05:29
From: Kinnipak
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Nov 30 2006 11:54 AM, brewmaster wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 9:51 AM, Kinnipak wrote:
>
> > On Nov 30 2006 10:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
> >
> > > I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
> > >
> > > Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> > > $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> > > rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7
tables
> > > started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
> > > the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800.
One
> > > limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop
all
> > > small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and
flings
> > > it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> > > won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> > > never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> > > of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two
big
> > > diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> > > pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> > > thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call.
He
> > > shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to
his
> > > word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide
he
> > > had nothing.
> > >
> > > Good call/bad call?
> >
> > what shit could someone give you for that? And why would you care? You
> > made the call based on the input you deciphered from his actions and went
> > with it. I love tables where people are talking and talking. You can
> > pretty much hang a sign on the ones who have hands based on the way they
> > slow down or speed up their banter.
> >
> > jmo.
>
> I dunno, sometimes it seems like I make plays like this and others feel
> like I got lucky on it, so it was the wrong play. I thought it was the
> correct one, but I guess it is pretty close.
I was down to the final four at a $20 SnG. I was in the cutoff with a
pretty good stack.The button who was a pretty strong player..had just
taken a bad beat but I had him covered almost 2-1. He moves in I am am
sitting there with Q-2 off. I think and think while watching him hold the
deck kinda tightly and he is chatting up with his buddy how bad people
play sometimes. I just felt he was pushing because he was still steaming.
After a lot of thought, I called and showed my rags thinking I was in a
race at best and was right, he had K7 or similar. He commented my call was
a loose one, But I flopped the queen and knocked him out. He was a bit
pissed, but hey, why play the game if we don't want to win money? I went
on to win.
was it the right call? no, but from all the input I got, it was the right
play. Or vice versa...you get my point.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 16:31:22
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:05:29 -0800, "Kinnipak" <a83ea3b@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
>I was down to the final four at a $20 SnG. I was in the cutoff with a
>pretty good stack.The button who was a pretty strong player..had just
>taken a bad beat but I had him covered almost 2-1. He moves in I am am
>sitting there with Q-2 off. I think and think while watching him hold the
>deck kinda tightly and he is chatting up with his buddy how bad people
>play sometimes. I just felt he was pushing because he was still steaming.
>After a lot of thought, I called and showed my rags thinking I was in a
>race at best and was right, he had K7 or similar. He commented my call was
>a loose one, But I flopped the queen and knocked him out. He was a bit
>pissed, but hey, why play the game if we don't want to win money? I went
>on to win.
>was it the right call? no, but from all the input I got, it was the right
>play. Or vice versa...you get my point.
What are the blinds and antes? What actual odds were you getting?
I can't say I like the call in most situations, except those situations
where you have someone massively outchipped and are sitting in
the big blind, getting exorbitant odds.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:27:35
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
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On Nov 30 2006 8:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
> I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
>
> Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7 tables
> started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
> the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800. One
> limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop all
> small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and flings
> it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two big
> diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call. He
> shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to his
> word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide he
> had nothing.
>
> Good call/bad call?
Sorry, was getting 2-1.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:35:44
From: John B.
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
|
Good read, good deductions, good call. Why did you get shit for it?
John B.
"brewmaster" <brewmaster@brewcam.com > wrote in message
news:ncd344xfrr.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Nov 30 2006 8:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
>
> > I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
> >
> > Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> > $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> > rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7
tables
> > started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out
of
> > the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800.
One
> > limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop
all
> > small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and
flings
> > it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> > won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> > never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> > of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two
big
> > diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> > pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> > thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call.
He
> > shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to
his
> > word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide
he
> > had nothing.
> >
> > Good call/bad call?
>
> Sorry, was getting 2-1.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
>
>
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Date: 30 Nov 22:32:22
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
|
On Nov 30 2006 11:24 AM, brewmaster wrote:
> I got quite a bit of shit from one player at the table for this.
>
> Here's the situation. I drove down to Hollywood Park for last night's
> $60+$15 w/ 1 optional $60 rebuy tourney. 800 in starting chips, 800 in
> rebuy chips. Blinds start at 25/25, half hour rounds (I think). 7 tables
> started. Early on, still in the 25/25 level, I had rebought right out of
> the chute, so I started with $1600, and currently sit at about $2800. One
> limper, I raise to 250 from the button with AcQc. Limper calls. Flop all
> small with two diamonds. Limper immediately picks up his stack and flings
> it all in, about 550 chips. Before I can do anything another player who
> won't shut up says "did you rebuy yet" and the all in guy says "no, I
> never rebuy". They yak for awhile while I'm thinking, and I can't think
> of anything he could limp in, call my raise with, then push except two big
> diamonds or a small pair. I certainly don't think he hit a set and top
> pair (which was like a 7) seems very unlikely (unless he has A7). After
> thinking for awhile, and figuring I'm getting 3-1 on my money, I call. He
> shows Kx of diamonds, no pair. Turn and river are blanks, and true to his
> word he doesn't rebuy and leaves. The banter actually helped me decide he
> had nothing.
>
> Good call/bad call?
I hate this entire play. Why raise to 250? I'd make it 100. Then if he jams
you have an easy fold, and there's less incentive for him to bluff at the pot.
Once you make it 250, I also hate the call. If he has Ax of diamonds, you're in
big trouble.
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Date: 30 Nov 22:15:37
From: Chris Argento
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
|
I absolutely hate the raise to 250 when the limper only has 800 because you're
just begging him to stop n' go no matter what flops and it puts you to a
decision. I don't get the 10x BB raise really ever, but in this situation even
more so.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:42:02
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
|
On Nov 30 2006 2:15 PM, Chris Argento wrote:
> I absolutely hate the raise to 250 when the limper only has 800 because
you're
> just begging him to stop n' go no matter what flops and it puts you to a
> decision. I don't get the 10x BB raise really ever, but in this situation
even
> more so.
This was kind of formulaic if you ask me. One limper, the SB and BB have
been EXTRAORDINARLY agressive (SB is a woman who has been all in 5 times
in the first round already, once with KQ where she lost her original
buy-in). I agree, I was asking for him to stop-n-go, but I knew he hadn't
rebought and didn't know he had a personal rule against it.
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Date: 30 Nov 22:55:25
From: Chris Argento
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
|
> On Nov 30 2006 2:15 PM, Chris Argento wrote:
>
> > I absolutely hate the raise to 250 when the limper only has 800 because
> you're
> > just begging him to stop n' go no matter what flops and it puts you to a
> > decision. I don't get the 10x BB raise really ever, but in this situation
> even
> > more so.
>
> This was kind of formulaic if you ask me. One limper, the SB and BB have
> been EXTRAORDINARLY agressive (SB is a woman who has been all in 5 times
> in the first round already, once with KQ where she lost her original
> buy-in). I agree, I was asking for him to stop-n-go, but I knew he hadn't
> rebought and didn't know he had a personal rule against it.
I'd think raising to 100/125 would be pretty good. You'd get one if not both of
the blinds out that way and leave the limper enough back to check/fold a missed
flop. Not saying 250 is wrong, but I really don't mind playing flops in
position when I have a huge stack in that situation.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:06:16
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: What do you think of this play?
|
On Nov 30 2006 2:55 PM, Chris Argento wrote:
> > On Nov 30 2006 2:15 PM, Chris Argento wrote:
> >
> > > I absolutely hate the raise to 250 when the limper only has 800 because
> > you're
> > > just begging him to stop n' go no matter what flops and it puts you to a
> > > decision. I don't get the 10x BB raise really ever, but in this situation
> > even
> > > more so.
> >
> > This was kind of formulaic if you ask me. One limper, the SB and BB have
> > been EXTRAORDINARLY agressive (SB is a woman who has been all in 5 times
> > in the first round already, once with KQ where she lost her original
> > buy-in). I agree, I was asking for him to stop-n-go, but I knew he hadn't
> > rebought and didn't know he had a personal rule against it.
>
> I'd think raising to 100/125 would be pretty good. You'd get one if not
both of
> the blinds out that way and leave the limper enough back to check/fold a
missed
> flop. Not saying 250 is wrong, but I really don't mind playing flops in
> position when I have a huge stack in that situation.
Actually, I was only playing this tourney for fun since I'm stuck out here
in the valley all week, and I was trying out the overbet technique. Got
me knocked out early too (had best hand when I made the overbet every
time, got pushed in, had to call because of odds, got sucked out on).
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