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Date: 05 Dec 2006 11:07:45
From: MysteriAce
Subject: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
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Question to Dr Zen: "1. Early in a STT, stacks are relatively even, an
unknown player under the gun raises 4xBB. You, sitting on the button have
AKo. Call, re-raise or fold?"
Dr Zen:
"Push or fold."
"But here's the deal with pushing or folding: you need others to bust
themselves out while you're doing it. You're just stealing blinds, not
making yourself a big stack. And sooner or later, someone's going to call
you and have you crushed. "
"I've learned my lesson in sngs and I tend to fold AK to a raise.
Admittedly, I try not to play it postflop because I think I lack the
ability, but I'm finding I do a lot better if I avoid playing hands that
tend to be trouble for me (most of them) at the first few levels, where
there's not enough at stake for it to be worth bleeding chips."
"Sometimes I'm playing a donkament, the blinds are like 10-20 and some guy
raises 500. I'm thinking, Jeezus, you're scared of playing cards! And what
a witless thing to do. You are hoping that there is someone equally
clueless at the table, otherwise you are winning 30 chips or losing at
least 500 if you have the sense to fold when the guy who has AA shoves
over the top."
"My favourite trick at the moment is to let aggro players steal from me. I
call a small raise in the big blind. Then I check and let them steal the
pot. They'll make a big bet, I'll fold.
After about three hands, they've categorised me as easy to run over. I
pick up a big hand and again, I call the small raise. The flop comes and I
check. The other guy makes his big bet, I raise. And the
astonishing thing is they will push if they have a piece! Other times,
they'll just call. So I check the turn. They decide I was just getting
antsy and put in another big bet. It all goes in and that's the end of
their tourney.
They don't even notice that this time you called the raise from the
button. In that case, they just see it's you and bet the flop into you.
Love it."
"Here's my point again, since it went whooshing over your head: in an
online tourney with a smallish field, I don't mind being a dog to survive
because only a few double-ups will take me to the FT; in a much bigger
field, I want to avoid double up or bust situations as far as possible,
even if it is +EV to take them. The thing is, Will, the EV of each
particular bet might be positive, but as a group, it isn't. "
"You just aren't that much more likely to win a tourney with 90 million
chips in play with 100k than 10k chips. It's preposterous to suggest you
are."
"That's nice. I'll tell you what though. You're too dim for me to discuss
that with. I don't mean that in a nasty way."
"But I consider it a small strength that I'm good enough to know I'm not
good enough."
"A fish is a small reptile "
"T5s folded to me on the button. I raise and SB donkey reraises. BB calls
and I call with good pot odds."
"Good players don't get many suckouts."
"If I'm a donkey why do I win more than you do?"
"If UTG raises 3xBB, button reraises 10xBB and SB pushes 20xBB, I'm at
least thinking about it."
"Dude, SNGs are fairly simple. You'll generally get one or two
opportunities to increase your stack substantially and one or two
opportunities to increase it a little bit. "
"Stop thinking you have to make chips out of your big hands. It's not a
disaster to have to pitch AK if the next hand you play 93o, pair your nine
and take half his chips because he calls you down with a pair of 8s."
"I'd push. I'm almost as much of an idiot as you are."
~ MysteriAce
"A fish is a small reptile"
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 17:58:24
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
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On Dec 5 2006 11:07 AM, MysteriAce wrote:
> Question to Dr Zen: "1. Early in a STT, stacks are relatively even, an
> unknown player under the gun raises 4xBB. You, sitting on the button have
> AKo. Call, re-raise or fold?"
>
> Dr Zen:
>
> "Push or fold."
>
My favorite was the same day he posted about how he folds AK preflop to
any aggression 'cause he doesn't like to put his money in when dominated
(how often is AK dominated???) he posted another thread about how he
doesn't have any idea how to play AK and always loses with it, so now he
just folds it.
---
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 17:36:35
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
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According to my analysis you have a 47% chance of winning the hand
On Dec 5 2006 3:07 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> Question to Dr Zen: "1. Early in a STT, stacks are relatively even, an
> unknown player under the gun raises 4xBB. You, sitting on the button have
> AKo. Call, re-raise or fold?"
>
> Dr Zen:
>
> "Push or fold."
>
> "But here's the deal with pushing or folding: you need others to bust
> themselves out while you're doing it. You're just stealing blinds, not
> making yourself a big stack. And sooner or later, someone's going to call
> you and have you crushed. "
>
> "I've learned my lesson in sngs and I tend to fold AK to a raise.
> Admittedly, I try not to play it postflop because I think I lack the
> ability, but I'm finding I do a lot better if I avoid playing hands that
> tend to be trouble for me (most of them) at the first few levels, where
> there's not enough at stake for it to be worth bleeding chips."
>
> "Sometimes I'm playing a donkament, the blinds are like 10-20 and some guy
> raises 500. I'm thinking, Jeezus, you're scared of playing cards! And what
> a witless thing to do. You are hoping that there is someone equally
> clueless at the table, otherwise you are winning 30 chips or losing at
> least 500 if you have the sense to fold when the guy who has AA shoves
> over the top."
>
> "My favourite trick at the moment is to let aggro players steal from me. I
> call a small raise in the big blind. Then I check and let them steal the
> pot. They'll make a big bet, I'll fold.
>
> After about three hands, they've categorised me as easy to run over. I
> pick up a big hand and again, I call the small raise. The flop comes and I
> check. The other guy makes his big bet, I raise. And the
> astonishing thing is they will push if they have a piece! Other times,
> they'll just call. So I check the turn. They decide I was just getting
> antsy and put in another big bet. It all goes in and that's the end of
> their tourney.
>
> They don't even notice that this time you called the raise from the
> button. In that case, they just see it's you and bet the flop into you.
> Love it."
>
>
> "Here's my point again, since it went whooshing over your head: in an
> online tourney with a smallish field, I don't mind being a dog to survive
> because only a few double-ups will take me to the FT; in a much bigger
> field, I want to avoid double up or bust situations as far as possible,
> even if it is +EV to take them. The thing is, Will, the EV of each
> particular bet might be positive, but as a group, it isn't. "
>
> "You just aren't that much more likely to win a tourney with 90 million
> chips in play with 100k than 10k chips. It's preposterous to suggest you
> are."
>
>
> "That's nice. I'll tell you what though. You're too dim for me to discuss
> that with. I don't mean that in a nasty way."
>
> "But I consider it a small strength that I'm good enough to know I'm not
> good enough."
>
> "A fish is a small reptile "
>
> "T5s folded to me on the button. I raise and SB donkey reraises. BB calls
> and I call with good pot odds."
>
> "Good players don't get many suckouts."
>
> "If I'm a donkey why do I win more than you do?"
>
> "If UTG raises 3xBB, button reraises 10xBB and SB pushes 20xBB, I'm at
> least thinking about it."
>
> "Dude, SNGs are fairly simple. You'll generally get one or two
> opportunities to increase your stack substantially and one or two
> opportunities to increase it a little bit. "
>
>
> "Stop thinking you have to make chips out of your big hands. It's not a
> disaster to have to pitch AK if the next hand you play 93o, pair your nine
> and take half his chips because he calls you down with a pair of 8s."
>
> "I'd push. I'm almost as much of an idiot as you are."
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "A fish is a small reptile"
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
________________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 14:57:55
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
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My favourite:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_frm/thread/6c6e0269053f2401/fdd270762932b7fd?lnk=st#fdd270762932b7fd
(messages 16 and 18)
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 12:29:32
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
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> "A fish is a small reptile"
You know, I never thought you could out-do yourself with the richiematt
post from whenever the hell that was. I was wrong. This is awesome.
When's vol 2. - torx/xyious coming out?
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 18:08:08
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
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On Dec 5 2006 1:29 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > "A fish is a small reptile"
>
> You know, I never thought you could out-do yourself with the richiematt
> post from whenever the hell that was. I was wrong. This is awesome.
>
> When's vol 2. - torx/xyious coming out?
>
> Morphy
> http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
That one might take some time to complie.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
-------
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 12:57:16
From: Ron Dworkin
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
|
This one is definitely my fav:
"Here's my point again, since it went whooshing over your head: in an
online tourney with a smallish field, I don't mind being a dog to
survive
because only a few double-ups will take me to the FT; in a much bigger
field, I want to avoid double up or bust situations as far as possible,
even if it is +EV to take them. The thing is, Will, the EV of each
particular bet might be positive, but as a group, it isn't. "
MysteriAce wrote:
> Question to Dr Zen: "1. Early in a STT, stacks are relatively even, an
> unknown player under the gun raises 4xBB. You, sitting on the button have
> AKo. Call, re-raise or fold?"
>
> Dr Zen:
>
> "Push or fold."
>
> "But here's the deal with pushing or folding: you need others to bust
> themselves out while you're doing it. You're just stealing blinds, not
> making yourself a big stack. And sooner or later, someone's going to call
> you and have you crushed. "
>
> "I've learned my lesson in sngs and I tend to fold AK to a raise.
> Admittedly, I try not to play it postflop because I think I lack the
> ability, but I'm finding I do a lot better if I avoid playing hands that
> tend to be trouble for me (most of them) at the first few levels, where
> there's not enough at stake for it to be worth bleeding chips."
>
> "Sometimes I'm playing a donkament, the blinds are like 10-20 and some guy
> raises 500. I'm thinking, Jeezus, you're scared of playing cards! And what
> a witless thing to do. You are hoping that there is someone equally
> clueless at the table, otherwise you are winning 30 chips or losing at
> least 500 if you have the sense to fold when the guy who has AA shoves
> over the top."
>
> "My favourite trick at the moment is to let aggro players steal from me. I
> call a small raise in the big blind. Then I check and let them steal the
> pot. They'll make a big bet, I'll fold.
>
> After about three hands, they've categorised me as easy to run over. I
> pick up a big hand and again, I call the small raise. The flop comes and I
> check. The other guy makes his big bet, I raise. And the
> astonishing thing is they will push if they have a piece! Other times,
> they'll just call. So I check the turn. They decide I was just getting
> antsy and put in another big bet. It all goes in and that's the end of
> their tourney.
>
> They don't even notice that this time you called the raise from the
> button. In that case, they just see it's you and bet the flop into you.
> Love it."
>
>
> "Here's my point again, since it went whooshing over your head: in an
> online tourney with a smallish field, I don't mind being a dog to survive
> because only a few double-ups will take me to the FT; in a much bigger
> field, I want to avoid double up or bust situations as far as possible,
> even if it is +EV to take them. The thing is, Will, the EV of each
> particular bet might be positive, but as a group, it isn't. "
>
> "You just aren't that much more likely to win a tourney with 90 million
> chips in play with 100k than 10k chips. It's preposterous to suggest you
> are."
>
>
> "That's nice. I'll tell you what though. You're too dim for me to discuss
> that with. I don't mean that in a nasty way."
>
> "But I consider it a small strength that I'm good enough to know I'm not
> good enough."
>
> "A fish is a small reptile "
>
> "T5s folded to me on the button. I raise and SB donkey reraises. BB calls
> and I call with good pot odds."
>
> "Good players don't get many suckouts."
>
> "If I'm a donkey why do I win more than you do?"
>
> "If UTG raises 3xBB, button reraises 10xBB and SB pushes 20xBB, I'm at
> least thinking about it."
>
> "Dude, SNGs are fairly simple. You'll generally get one or two
> opportunities to increase your stack substantially and one or two
> opportunities to increase it a little bit. "
>
>
> "Stop thinking you have to make chips out of your big hands. It's not a
> disaster to have to pitch AK if the next hand you play 93o, pair your nine
> and take half his chips because he calls you down with a pair of 8s."
>
> "I'd push. I'm almost as much of an idiot as you are."
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "A fish is a small reptile"
>
> -----
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 16:09:50
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: "Utter Bullocks", a Dr Zen Retrospective
|
My favorite Zen moments:
On 10/24:
"Like I say, you're a weaktightie. I put in the reraise every time. A
pair of tens is miles ahead of most raisers' range. Unless I think
raiser is particularly tight, I'm reraising. You can't play fit or fold
with a pair of tens. It's a horrible waste."
Then, less than a week later, on 10/30:
"Help me. And while we're on the subject. TT. How come I never,
ever win with that hand?"
Priceless ;-)
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
"Ron Dworkin" <toddbryson@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1165352236.343993.104750@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This one is definitely my fav:
>
> "Here's my point again, since it went whooshing over your head: in an
> online tourney with a smallish field, I don't mind being a dog to
> survive
> because only a few double-ups will take me to the FT; in a much bigger
> field, I want to avoid double up or bust situations as far as possible,
>
> even if it is +EV to take them. The thing is, Will, the EV of each
> particular bet might be positive, but as a group, it isn't. "
>
>
> MysteriAce wrote:
>> Question to Dr Zen: "1. Early in a STT, stacks are relatively even, an
>> unknown player under the gun raises 4xBB. You, sitting on the button have
>> AKo. Call, re-raise or fold?"
>>
>> Dr Zen:
>>
>> "Push or fold."
>>
>> "But here's the deal with pushing or folding: you need others to bust
>> themselves out while you're doing it. You're just stealing blinds, not
>> making yourself a big stack. And sooner or later, someone's going to call
>> you and have you crushed. "
>>
>> "I've learned my lesson in sngs and I tend to fold AK to a raise.
>> Admittedly, I try not to play it postflop because I think I lack the
>> ability, but I'm finding I do a lot better if I avoid playing hands that
>> tend to be trouble for me (most of them) at the first few levels, where
>> there's not enough at stake for it to be worth bleeding chips."
>>
>> "Sometimes I'm playing a donkament, the blinds are like 10-20 and some guy
>> raises 500. I'm thinking, Jeezus, you're scared of playing cards! And what
>> a witless thing to do. You are hoping that there is someone equally
>> clueless at the table, otherwise you are winning 30 chips or losing at
>> least 500 if you have the sense to fold when the guy who has AA shoves
>> over the top."
>>
>> "My favourite trick at the moment is to let aggro players steal from me. I
>> call a small raise in the big blind. Then I check and let them steal the
>> pot. They'll make a big bet, I'll fold.
>>
>> After about three hands, they've categorised me as easy to run over. I
>> pick up a big hand and again, I call the small raise. The flop comes and I
>> check. The other guy makes his big bet, I raise. And the
>> astonishing thing is they will push if they have a piece! Other times,
>> they'll just call. So I check the turn. They decide I was just getting
>> antsy and put in another big bet. It all goes in and that's the end of
>> their tourney.
>>
>> They don't even notice that this time you called the raise from the
>> button. In that case, they just see it's you and bet the flop into you.
>> Love it."
>>
>>
>> "Here's my point again, since it went whooshing over your head: in an
>> online tourney with a smallish field, I don't mind being a dog to survive
>> because only a few double-ups will take me to the FT; in a much bigger
>> field, I want to avoid double up or bust situations as far as possible,
>> even if it is +EV to take them. The thing is, Will, the EV of each
>> particular bet might be positive, but as a group, it isn't. "
>>
>> "You just aren't that much more likely to win a tourney with 90 million
>> chips in play with 100k than 10k chips. It's preposterous to suggest you
>> are."
>>
>>
>> "That's nice. I'll tell you what though. You're too dim for me to discuss
>> that with. I don't mean that in a nasty way."
>>
>> "But I consider it a small strength that I'm good enough to know I'm not
>> good enough."
>>
>> "A fish is a small reptile "
>>
>> "T5s folded to me on the button. I raise and SB donkey reraises. BB calls
>> and I call with good pot odds."
>>
>> "Good players don't get many suckouts."
>>
>> "If I'm a donkey why do I win more than you do?"
>>
>> "If UTG raises 3xBB, button reraises 10xBB and SB pushes 20xBB, I'm at
>> least thinking about it."
>>
>> "Dude, SNGs are fairly simple. You'll generally get one or two
>> opportunities to increase your stack substantially and one or two
>> opportunities to increase it a little bit. "
>>
>>
>> "Stop thinking you have to make chips out of your big hands. It's not a
>> disaster to have to pitch AK if the next hand you play 93o, pair your nine
>> and take half his chips because he calls you down with a pair of 8s."
>>
>> "I'd push. I'm almost as much of an idiot as you are."
>>
>>
>> ~ MysteriAce
>>
>> "A fish is a small reptile"
>>
>> -----
>> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>
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