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Date: 20 Dec 2006 08:46:45
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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My brother Sid, my nephew Eric and I flew out to Sin City on Thursday
evening and came back Monday.
This is part one, covering the non-poker aspects of the trip and the
poker rooms. Actual hands and stuff will be in a reply.
Non-poker:
Thursday: Got into town around seven but that was ten East Coast time,
so we were too tired and drunk to play any poker. We ate at a PF
Chang's, which is a very good chain of bistros. The food is Chinese and
mostly spicy. We did some sightseeing and then hit the sack at the
Marriot's Residence Inn where we had a suite. The place would have cost
us sixty bucks a night each if Eric hadn't been paying for it (the
flight and hotel were his present to his dad and I) and the place was
roomy and pleasant. I recommend this type of arrangement (especially if
your nephew is paying for it) over staying at a casino hotel.
Friday: The arrangements to try to meet up with some RGPers never got
any results. I was having a really good time with Sid and Eric, so it's
no big deal. Maybe next time. We saw the MGM grand, which we all found
unimpressive, the Sahara, which is old-style Las Vegas and also
unimpressive, and the Venetian, which is awesome. The canal setup is
really beautiful and the place was very luxurious. It got drunk out for
awhile.
Saturday and Sunday: Not much non-poker stuff to report. Spent the days
between the Sahara and the Venetian. Good steak-house at the Rio but
didn't hang out at the casino at all.
Monday: WGHN
Poker Rooms:
MGM Grand: I don't know why we played here. The "room" is only
semi-isolated from the rest of the casino. The tables are odd, in that
they have a ring of hard surface around the felt. We played in one
tournament and a few hours in the ring games. The tournament structure
was very fast with antes becoming involved at level three. The limit
ring games we each played in must have been ok because we all made
money but I didn't think that my 4/8 table was soft enough to justfy
playing in all the noise from the nearby table games and slots. The
staff seemed competent enough but not remarkable in any way. If it were
the only poker room in town, it would be fine. I can't see any reason
to go back, however.
Sahara: We found their eleven am (also run at seven and eleven pm) in a
magazine and went there because Sid and Eric wanted to play in low
buy-in tourneys. The entry to the room is through a big opening and not
a door but the room is otherwise semi-isolated and not as noisy as the
one in the MGM Grand. It is not fancy but the tables are fine and they
are not crowded together.
Like most low buy-in tourneys, this one suffers from the fact that the
casino charges too high a % of the buy. It is $40 + $12, which would be
enough to make me say no to playing in it. However, there is a $20
rebuy or add-on, which almost everyone takes, and that makes the prize
pool more reasonable. You get T3000 for the buy-in and another T2000
for the rebuy, so this is a fairly deep-stack tourney. The blinds start
at T25/25 and the rounds are twenty minutes. They never use antes. I
like antes but otherwise liked the structure.
The house rule in these tourneys is that a short raise all-in DOES
reopen the action if it is 1/2 or more of a full raise. Not to my taste
but it is their rule.
They spread $2/4 limit and $1/2 NL while we were there. Sid and Eric
said that the limit game was ok but they joined me in the NL after
awhile. The NL was never full but there was lots of action and each of
us had some good wins. One of Eric's good wins was against his dad but
that counts too.
The dealers are efficient and fun. During the first round of the first
AM tourney we played, the dealer pointed out "This IS a talking-allowed
tournament" I said that I thought it was a sleeping-optional tournament
and he agreed that it is.
I like the Sahara poker room. Since Sid and Eric wanted to play in low
buy-in tourneys, we went there more than I would have if I had been
alone but I would recommend the room to anyone who wants a low-key
game.
The Venetian: This place is incredible. Surrounded by the only casino
that ever caused me to want to sight-see, the poker room fits in. The
tables are great, the automatic shufflers work perfectly, there is
enough space among the tables to move about freely. The drink-servers
are in costumes that made the feminist in me (no one should have to
dress like that to come to work) get in fistfights with the
libertarrian in me (no one has to take a job she doesn't like) while
the reptile brain that actually runs things sat there drooling.
They offer to spread a great many games and their dealers and staff are
very competent. I played $4/8 and $8/16 LHE and $1/2 NLHE there. I
signed up for PLO with $5 blinds but the game didn't run. More players
are what the room needs.
There was ONE player in the $4/8 game who was constantly acting out of
turn and I think that the dealers should have been more proactive with
him but it would be hard to find anything else to criticize.
A former Foxwoods dealer and floorman was running their tournaments and
there were other former foxwoods people, including the person who used
to run the whole Foxwoods poker room, there. It was nice to see them
all and nice to be recognized. And not thrown out.
I will "reply" to myself and talk about actual poker hands and
situations.
Will in New Haven
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Date: 20 Dec 19:09:13
From: guy
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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On Dec 20 2006 8:46 AM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> The Venetian: . The drink-servers
> are in costumes that made the feminist in me (no one should have to
> dress like that to come to work) get in fistfights with the
> libertarrian in me (no one has to take a job she doesn't like) while
> the reptile brain that actually runs things sat there drooling.
>
>
> Will in New Haven
Thank goodness you didn't go to a gentlemen's club. Your head would have
exploded.
May you NEVER "seven-out," ...*guy....
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 10:50:46
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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Will in New Haven wrote:
> My brother Sid, my nephew Eric and I flew out to Sin City on Thursday
> evening and came back Monday.
>
I am going to discuss a few hands here:
I was in a satellite at the Venetian. $130, single table, two survivors
get an entry to the $500 tournament on saturday, so this must have been
friday night.
It is very early in the event, blinds are 25/50 and I have 1500. I have
TT UTG+1 and I raise to 150. A middle-position player makes it 300,
which looks as if he wants action.He has me covered by a little. I
won't be crippled at all if I call now and fold on the flop and I
decide to call and only continue if my hand improves. I won't continue
on a mere undercard flop unless it gives me a straight draw.
The flop JsTs4s A pot-sized bet is more than half my chips, so I move
in.
He calls with AsAd.I think I might have had to work harder to stack him
on a rainbow flop but maybe not. He doesn't hit any of his outs.
Quite awhile later, I am in the SB, I have 3600 and the BB has 2300.
The blinds are 200/400, so we are both in bad shape. I have AJ and I
know he will call with practically anything, so I raise to put him
all-in. He calls with KQ and he wins.
I don't get any more cards and keep having to steal to stay alive but
fortunately stealing is not all that hard for awhiile. When we get down
to three it is getting harder to steal and the blinds are outracing my
stack. I get KcJd on the button with the blinds 400/800 and I have 2400
in my stack. I move in and get called by AQ in the BB and lose.
Later on, I am playing at the 1/2 NL table and I have $540 in front of
me, having flopped a set against a SMALLER pair and gotten all of his
chips. Not a smaller set, a smaller pair. That had doubled up my
original $200 buy-in and I had won a few smaller pots also.
I am sitting in the BB when an early-position player who bought in
fairly recently makes it twenty to play. He has won a small pot and has
around 220 total.
it gets folded to me and I look at my cards, expecting to fold if they
aren't good.
I have AA.
I make it 100 for a couple of reasons:
1: People know about the raise to 40 or 50 that means that you want
action. They assume that a bigger bet means that you don't.
2: This raise slaughters his implied odds.
3: I think a smaller raise is possibly better if your opponent has a
poorish raising hand because you lose your customer but the bigger
raise works better against a real hand and more early position raises
are made with real hands.
He reraises all-in. Obviously, I call. That is the end of the play of
the hand and all decisions have been made. I still feel fine about it.
In fairness to the poster Alan, I will admit that there was a King on
the flop and another one on the turn and that the guy had Kings. I have
stacked people preflop in cash games five times in the past year, not
counting the time we both had AA and chopped, and I have only won
three. I can live with that. I DO think that the King on the turn was
egregious. Didn't the guy have ENOUGH Kings?
I will reply to this post with some more hands later on.
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 09:30:15
From: TLira
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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On Dec 20 2006 10:46 AM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> The drink-servers
> are in costumes that made the feminist in me (no one should have to
> dress like that to come to work) get in fistfights with the
> libertarrian in me (no one has to take a job she doesn't like) while
> the reptile brain that actually runs things sat there drooling.
I loved this sentence. Nice report Will.
TLira
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 13:37:57
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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GrimJack808 wrote:
> IMHO Niether,
>
> She made a good laydown under the circumstances to someone she didn't
> know. Not all good laydowns are ones that are losers.
>
> Since he had just been sitting there playing tight, he bought that fold
> by exercising his patience.
Anyone who didn't know him might well have fallen for that. As his
uncle, all I can assume is that he never had two hole cards bigger than
a six up to that point.
>
> His all in on the flop, which would have her commit 2/3 of her stack
> from AA on a board that could have flopped a set or maybe even two
> pair, in my mind, makes it 50/50 at best to call. The bet speaks, "I
> have a set and am a tight player very, very afraid of a flush or
> straight draw." Couple those tow together and I would probably lean
> towards folding too, but I wasn't there to see the events and the
> action prior to this hand. I would much rather move all my chips in
> preflop with AA than after the flop from someone first to act that
> moves a significant stack all in.
In another hand I mention that re-raising big with AA denies any hand
implied odds. I think her "I want action" re-raise set her up for this.
>
> Having shown her AA and willingness to lay down such a big hand entices
> the next person who goes up against her to move all in on a bluff, in
> which case she will call and win more than her $40 back. She basically
> bought this for $40 and kept $160 in now $260 stack to fight a later
> battle. My guess is she won some big pots later from people who
> assumed she would fold to a big bet.
There is a good chance this would be true IF she ever got another big
hand against someone who had seen this play and processed it. That is
the problem with the whole strategic employment of showing hands. I
don't remember her winning any big pots after that but she certainly
would have attracted a bluff after showing that laydown, excpet against
a player who had seen that ploy before.
>
> As to him, his showing JJ is going to make people at the table ore
> likely to call down his future all in bets. Later when he holds the
> nuts (or at least a solid hand), he doesn't have to worry about value
> betting, he can actually move all in with the possibility someone else
> will call him...which at a tight table would otherwise be impossible to
> do. Also it will deter people from playing in pots against him with
> sub-premium hands, which allows him to isolate more when he does have
> good hands.
Again, this is a strategy that is most valuable in long sessions
against observant opponents and then only if you catch something worth
catching. By the way, he didn't think his overpair was good. He thought
that she would fold.
The problem I have, beyond the fact that this strategy is hard to
exploit at a table where new people come in often, is that he showed a
bluff _against one of the hottest young women in Las Vegas_ What was he
thinking?
Will in New Haven
--
>
> Good Luck!
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> $100 Free Party Poker Bankroll -OR- $50 Free Titan Poker Bankroll
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>
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>
>
>
> GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:
> > On Dec 20 2006 2:46 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> >
> > > Which of them was a bigger idiot for showing their cards or was it a
> > > tie?
> >
> > I vote for her. She just showed the whole table that she can be pushed
> > off a big hand without much effort. He just showed he likes overpairs,
> > and 1/2 the table probably thinks he played it well, and won't think twice
> > about it.
> >
> > --------
> > : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 13:28:07
From: GrimJack808
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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IMHO Niether,
She made a good laydown under the circumstances to someone she didn't
know. Not all good laydowns are ones that are losers.
Since he had just been sitting there playing tight, he bought that fold
by exercising his patience.
His all in on the flop, which would have her commit 2/3 of her stack
from AA on a board that could have flopped a set or maybe even two
pair, in my mind, makes it 50/50 at best to call. The bet speaks, "I
have a set and am a tight player very, very afraid of a flush or
straight draw." Couple those tow together and I would probably lean
towards folding too, but I wasn't there to see the events and the
action prior to this hand. I would much rather move all my chips in
preflop with AA than after the flop from someone first to act that
moves a significant stack all in.
Having shown her AA and willingness to lay down such a big hand entices
the next person who goes up against her to move all in on a bluff, in
which case she will call and win more than her $40 back. She basically
bought this for $40 and kept $160 in now $260 stack to fight a later
battle. My guess is she won some big pots later from people who
assumed she would fold to a big bet.
As to him, his showing JJ is going to make people at the table ore
likely to call down his future all in bets. Later when he holds the
nuts (or at least a solid hand), he doesn't have to worry about value
betting, he can actually move all in with the possibility someone else
will call him...which at a tight table would otherwise be impossible to
do. Also it will deter people from playing in pots against him with
sub-premium hands, which allows him to isolate more when he does have
good hands.
Good Luck!
--------------------------------------------------------------
$100 Free Party Poker Bankroll -OR- $50 Free Titan Poker Bankroll
$100 Free Absolute Poker Bankroll
No Deposit/No Credit Card
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Extra $60-$90-$120 over & above normal bonus for 12 popular sites:
http://www.pokersourceonline.com/freepoker/gifts.asp?rc=GRIMJACK808
GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:
> On Dec 20 2006 2:46 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
> > Which of them was a bigger idiot for showing their cards or was it a
> > tie?
>
> I vote for her. She just showed the whole table that she can be pushed
> off a big hand without much effort. He just showed he likes overpairs,
> and 1/2 the table probably thinks he played it well, and won't think twice
> about it.
>
> --------
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 11:46:59
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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Will in New Haven wrote:
> Will in New Haven wrote:
> > My brother Sid, my nephew Eric and I flew out to Sin City on Thursday
> > evening and came back Monday.
> >
Here are a couple more hands:
Eric is UTG in the 1/2 NL game at the Venetian. He has his original 200
minus the binds a couple of times. Otherwise, he has been just SITTING
there. He opens for twenty.
The incredibly hot young woman, with about $300, in the next seat makes
it forty and it is folded around to Eric who calls.
The flop is T95, two Spades and Eric moves all-in, a huge overbet of
the pot, obviously.
IHYW thinks for a long time and finally folds AsAx face up. She says "I
hope you weren't on a draw."
And Eric shows JJ.
Which of them was a bigger idiot for showing their cards or was it a
tie?
In the $8/16 limit game at the Venetian:
I have AA utg+1 and I raise. Three callers.
Flop is TT9 with two Clubs and I bet
next player raises and the next one calls the raise. Last player folds.
I call.
Turn is 9h. I check and fold when the next player bets and gets called.
JT loses to 99 at the showdown after a raising war on the irrelevant
river card.
More hands later
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 12:25:55
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: Trip Repoert: Four Days in Las Vegas
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On Dec 20 2006 2:46 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> Which of them was a bigger idiot for showing their cards or was it a
> tie?
I vote for her. She just showed the whole table that she can be pushed
off a big hand without much effort. He just showed he likes overpairs,
and 1/2 the table probably thinks he played it well, and won't think twice
about it.
--------
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