| |
Main
Date: 14 Dec 22:24:37
From: Vegas Vic
Subject: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
That should be enough to get the leftist kook posters fuming.
Have a nice day.
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
|
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 00:09:03
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Its mysterious because we are all too stupid to understand. To a frog a
car works in mysterious ways.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec
From: Vegas Vic
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
But (like us) perhaps the frog will be shown the truth after he croaks?
On Dec 14 2006 9:09 PM, ben carr wrote:
> Its mysterious because we are all too stupid to understand. To a frog a
> car works in mysterious ways.
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:08:54
From:
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Vegas Vic wrote:
> But (like us) perhaps the frog will be shown the truth after he croaks?
...but more likely he willl just be crushed by it and never know what
hit him.
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 20:06:31
From:
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
You DO mean the Dark Lord, right?
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 15:20:06
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
igotskillz com wrote:
> On Dec 14 2006 6:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
>
> > There is no "Lord"
> >
> > Prove me wrong.
>
> You will incur a massive unforseen expense in the next 2 weeks.
>
> There's your proof, punk
And you'll get bitch slapped by a 90 lb. philippina.
Bank on it.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 16:02:29
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Don't think so, my whore doesn't live here anymore
On Dec 14 2006 7:20 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> igotskillz com wrote:
> > On Dec 14 2006 6:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> >
> > > There is no "Lord"
> > >
> > > Prove me wrong.
> >
> > You will incur a massive unforseen expense in the next 2 weeks.
> >
> > There's your proof, punk
>
>
> And you'll get bitch slapped by a 90 lb. philippina.
> Bank on it.
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:33:21
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 14 2006 7:20 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> igotskillz com wrote:
> > On Dec 14 2006 6:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> >
> > > There is no "Lord"
> > >
> > > Prove me wrong.
> >
> > You will incur a massive unforseen expense in the next 2 weeks.
> >
Be careful what you wish for
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
--------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 14:36:52
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
There is no "Lord"
Prove me wrong.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec
From: Vegas Vic
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Because only God could create something as wonderful as me.
On Dec 14 2006 2:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> There is no "Lord"
>
> Prove me wrong.
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 21:36:52
From: RazzO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Can you prove to us that you love(d) your mother? Or for arguments sake,
can you prove you don't/didn't/
> On Dec 14 2006 2:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
>
> > There is no "Lord"
> >
> > Prove me wrong.
RazzO
email:ticorazz (at) yahoo.com
http://www.razzo.com
---
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec
From: Kincaid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
When my friend was a rookie lawyer in Canada (Barrister, if you prefer) he was
assigned to represent a man alledged of killing another man. He was very
stressed out about his first day in court on this case. The Crown Prosecutor
made a plea for the defense to prove that his client didn't commit the crime.
My friend pointed out the the crown that the burden of proof likes with the
prosecution, not the defense. The judge maintained it. (My friend believes
this was a tactic to take advantage of his lack of experience.)
Anyway... you prove it.
On Dec 14 2006 2:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> There is no "Lord"
>
> Prove me wrong.
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 06:51:49
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"On Dec 14 2006 2:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> There is no "Lord"
>
> Prove me wrong."
God exists and he created every thing in the world. Prove me wrong.
Irish Mike
"Kincaid" <kincaid@z95.com > wrote in message
news:1166156341$922058@recpoker.com...
>
> When my friend was a rookie lawyer in Canada (Barrister, if you prefer) he
> was
> assigned to represent a man alledged of killing another man. He was very
> stressed out about his first day in court on this case. The Crown
> Prosecutor
> made a plea for the defense to prove that his client didn't commit the
> crime.
>
> My friend pointed out the the crown that the burden of proof likes with
> the
> prosecution, not the defense. The judge maintained it. (My friend believes
> this was a tactic to take advantage of his lack of experience.)
>
> Anyway... you prove it.
>
> On Dec 14 2006 2:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
>
>> There is no "Lord"
>>
>> Prove me wrong.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> * New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 07:56:26
From: Travel
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
The world is flat. Prove me wrong.
And don't even bother providing links to those fake photos that are
everywhere, showing that big blue beachball that's supposed to be the
earth, don't make me laugh.
--
Travel
- http://www.pokerhelper.com RGP Access News Forums -
|
| | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 14:46:22
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 14 2006 6:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> There is no "Lord"
>
> Prove me wrong.
You will incur a massive unforseen expense in the next 2 weeks.
There's your proof, punk
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
_____________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 08:49:55
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
James L. Hankins wrote:
>
> > It's physical evidence of the existence of Earth and the universe, but
> > nobody disputes that.
>
> Orange disputed it. He said case dismissed because of NO evidence.
Orange disputed the existence of the Earth? I must have missed that...
>
> > There are perfectly good scientific explanations for the existence of
> > the Earth - there is no need to posit a Creator.
>
>
> Really? Give me one. You mean like everything was a little ball at one
> point 15 billion years ago and then exploded?
Yes, that one - the Big Bang Theory.
> How is that more rational that a Creator?
Because there is scientific evidence for it that hangs together in a
rational way.
> How did the ball get there? are there other balls?
If you are actually interested in what scientists believe happened,
it's easy enough to find that information on the web. As usual,
Wikipedia has a pretty good article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang
>
> >If you do assume
> > there is a Creator, there is no particular reason to believe that
> > He/She/It resembles Brahma, Odin, or Jehovah, all of which fit normal
> > patterns of human mythology.
>
> Of course. And?
And, therefore, the fact that many humans believe in a Creator does not
imply that there actually is one.
- Bob T.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 11:29:05
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com > wrote in message
news:1166201395.597232.153560@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> James L. Hankins wrote:
>>
>> > It's physical evidence of the existence of Earth and the universe, but
>> > nobody disputes that.
>>
>> Orange disputed it. He said case dismissed because of NO evidence.
>
> Orange disputed the existence of the Earth? I must have missed that...
I guess you did. He said: "You have no evidence to present." I took no
evidence to mean no evidence.
>> > There are perfectly good scientific explanations for the existence of
>> > the Earth - there is no need to posit a Creator.
>>
>>
>> Really? Give me one. You mean like everything was a little ball at one
>> point 15 billion years ago and then exploded?
>
> Yes, that one - the Big Bang Theory.
Do you have another or was the Big Bang it?
>> How is that more rational that a Creator?
>
> Because there is scientific evidence for it that hangs together in a
> rational way.
No there isn't. Think about it. All matter in the universe compressed into
a single speck? The scientific evidence is red shift which suggests the
universe is expanding. The singular point of matter is conjecture and makes
no more sense to me than a Creator.
>> How did the ball get there? are there other balls?
>
> If you are actually interested in what scientists believe happened,
> it's easy enough to find that information on the web. As usual,
> Wikipedia has a pretty good article:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang
Yes, I have access to the internet, too.
>> >If you do assume
>> > there is a Creator, there is no particular reason to believe that
>> > He/She/It resembles Brahma, Odin, or Jehovah, all of which fit normal
>> > patterns of human mythology.
>>
>> Of course. And?
>
> And, therefore, the fact that many humans believe in a Creator does not
> imply that there actually is one.
Of course. Listen. Orange said there was no evidence of a Creator and
dismissed the case. I was just pointing out his error.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 21:54:10
From: sng
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Why do you keep insisting that the existence of the earth and universe
is evidence that it was created by a god?
Is the fact that a house was broken into, evidence that you broke into it?
--
S. Doyle
doyles AT mountaincable DOT net
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 22:26:06
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
This whole "Does God exist" debate is futile and a colossal waste of time.
I believe in
God and so do the vast majority of people. Nothing some stranger types on
the internet is ever going to change my mind. There is a group of people
who reject God and claim he does not exist. Nothing some stranger types on
the internet is ever going to change their minds. Therefore, I resolve not
to waste another minute of my valuable time arguing this issue with people
who are not open to argument and who I don't care about any way.
Irish Mike
"sng" <doylesNO@SPAMmountaincablePLEASE.net > wrote in message
news:1618e$45835fd2$47131aa1$15364@MOUNTAINCABLE.NET...
> Why do you keep insisting that the existence of the earth and universe is
> evidence that it was created by a god?
>
> Is the fact that a house was broken into, evidence that you broke into it?
>
>
> --
> S. Doyle
> doyles AT mountaincable DOT net
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 20:12:00
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
The vast majority of people might believe in a God, but they don't
believe in the same God as you.
On Dec 15 2006 10:26 PM, Irish Mike wrote:
> This whole "Does God exist" debate is futile and a colossal waste of time.
> I believe in
> God and so do the vast majority of people. Nothing some stranger types on
> the internet is ever going to change my mind. There is a group of people
> who reject God and claim he does not exist. Nothing some stranger types on
> the internet is ever going to change their minds. Therefore, I resolve not
> to waste another minute of my valuable time arguing this issue with people
> who are not open to argument and who I don't care about any way.
>
> Irish Mike
>
>
> "sng" <doylesNO@SPAMmountaincablePLEASE.net> wrote in message
> news:1618e$45835fd2$47131aa1$15364@MOUNTAINCABLE.NET...
> > Why do you keep insisting that the existence of the earth and universe is
> > evidence that it was created by a god?
> >
> > Is the fact that a house was broken into, evidence that you broke into it?
> >
> >
> > --
> > S. Doyle
> > doyles AT mountaincable DOT net
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 22:40:39
From: sng
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Irish Mike wrote:
> This whole "Does God exist" debate is futile and a colossal waste of time.
> I believe in
> God and so do the vast majority of people. Nothing some stranger types on
> the internet is ever going to change my mind. There is a group of people
> who reject God and claim he does not exist. Nothing some stranger types on
> the internet is ever going to change their minds. Therefore, I resolve not
> to waste another minute of my valuable time arguing this issue with people
> who are not open to argument and who I don't care about any way.
>
> Irish Mike
Reread my post, bucko. I didn't take any side of the debate.
My point was that the earth being here is not evidence that there is a god.
I don't care whether people believe in god, ganesh or gLu-maa Ghirdhima,
the existance of the earth is not evidence that any of them exist.
>
> "sng" <doylesNO@SPAMmountaincablePLEASE.net> wrote in message
> news:1618e$45835fd2$47131aa1$15364@MOUNTAINCABLE.NET...
>
>>Why do you keep insisting that the existence of the earth and universe is
>>evidence that it was created by a god?
>>
>>Is the fact that a house was broken into, evidence that you broke into it?
>>
>>
>>--
>>S. Doyle
>>doyles AT mountaincable DOT net
>
>
>
--
S. Doyle
doyles AT mountaincable DOT net
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 07:56:17
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
James L. Hankins wrote:
>
> You exist on a planet called Earth do you not? You acknowledge that there
> is a larger universe in which the planet Earth is situated, do you not?
>
> That's a lot of physical evidence. You can argue that a being called God
> didn't create any of it, but I think a dismissal based on a lack of evidence
> is improvident.
It's physical evidence of the existence of Earth and the universe, but
nobody disputes that. The question is, was the Earth created by Shiva
from a drop of Brahma's sweat or not? (I may have butchered the Hindu
mythology, if so I apologize to all the Hindu poker players reading
this group.)
There are perfectly good scientific explanations for the existence of
the Earth - there is no need to posit a Creator. If you do assume
there is a Creator, there is no particular reason to believe that
He/She/It resembles Brahma, Odin, or Jehovah, all of which fit normal
patterns of human mythology.
- Bob T.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:07:47
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com > wrote in message
news:1166198177.379299.218210@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> James L. Hankins wrote:
>>
>> You exist on a planet called Earth do you not? You acknowledge that
>> there
>> is a larger universe in which the planet Earth is situated, do you not?
>>
>> That's a lot of physical evidence. You can argue that a being called God
>> didn't create any of it, but I think a dismissal based on a lack of
>> evidence
>> is improvident.
>
> It's physical evidence of the existence of Earth and the universe, but
> nobody disputes that.
Orange disputed it. He said case dismissed because of NO evidence.
>The question is, was the Earth created by Shiva
> from a drop of Brahma's sweat or not? (I may have butchered the Hindu
> mythology, if so I apologize to all the Hindu poker players reading
> this group.)
>
Yep. That is the question.
> There are perfectly good scientific explanations for the existence of
> the Earth - there is no need to posit a Creator.
Really? Give me one. You mean like everything was a little ball at one
point 15 billion years ago and then exploded? How is that more rational
that a Creator? How did the ball get there? are there other balls?
>If you do assume
> there is a Creator, there is no particular reason to believe that
> He/She/It resembles Brahma, Odin, or Jehovah, all of which fit normal
> patterns of human mythology.
Of course. And?
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:44:37
From: Peg Smith
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam] > wrote:
>Really? Give me one. You mean like everything was a little ball at one
>point 15 billion years ago and then exploded? How is that more rational
>that a Creator? How did the ball get there? are there other balls?
From: Patti Beadles
Date: Tues, Dec 7 2004 12:39 pm
Admiral Stockdale <seattle...@SPAMyahoo.com > wrote:
>From a logical standpoint, not an atheist or "believer" standpoint:
>Assume from the previous arguments SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING. You
>say that any argument that states God has always been is undermined by
>simply saying that the same reasoning can work saying that the universe has
>always been. In other words, something had to come from nothing (it is
>beyond comprehension that something has "always" been). We KNOW the earth.
>We see it, walk on it, touch it. It is COMPLETELY beyond comprehension that
>the earth, even the smallest molecule of it, can come from nothing. Thus,
>there HAS to be something BEYOND science and our knowledge that exists and
>that HAD to come before the earth/universe.
I would certainly never posit that the earth has always existed-- it
seems pretty clear that's not the case.
Let's start with your assumption that something has to come from
nothing. Something as rich and complex as the universe had to have
been created by some higher entity, yes?
If so, then that higher entity must in fact be more rich and complex
than the universe. Are we still on the same page? Good.
So if something as complex as the universe had to have been created,
and god is more complex than the universe, it's necessary that god
had to have been created by some still-more-complex entity. Once
you start going down this logical path, you quickly wind up with an
infinite string of ever-more-complex super-deities being necessary
to create the next one in the chain. At the tail end there's a
dude who spins off this little universe thing that we inhabit.
But! You argue that something must come from nothing-- there has to
be a stopping point in that infinite chain of deities. And yet you
also argue that something that is as complex (or moreso) than the
universe must have a creator. Those two things logically contradict
each other.
And voila! We've basically proven that your argument that "something
had to come from nothing" is false. There has to have been SOMETHING
that has always existed.
The difference between me and you is that I'm willing to believe
it's the universe that has always existed, and you tack on one
additional level before you accept something as the origin.
-Patti
Peg
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 11:14:30
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"Peg Smith" <PegSmithNow@aol.comnojunk > wrote in message
news:opj5o2l496g7jerdllmvbij8ttiu7svm46@4ax.com...
> "James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam]> wrote:
>
>>Really? Give me one. You mean like everything was a little ball at one
>>point 15 billion years ago and then exploded? How is that more rational
>>that a Creator? How did the ball get there? are there other balls?
>
> From: Patti Beadles
> Date: Tues, Dec 7 2004 12:39 pm
>
> Admiral Stockdale <seattle...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>From a logical standpoint, not an atheist or "believer" standpoint:
>>Assume from the previous arguments SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.
>>You
>>say that any argument that states God has always been is undermined by
>>simply saying that the same reasoning can work saying that the universe
>>has
>>always been. In other words, something had to come from nothing (it is
>>beyond comprehension that something has "always" been). We KNOW the
>>earth.
>>We see it, walk on it, touch it. It is COMPLETELY beyond comprehension
>>that
>>the earth, even the smallest molecule of it, can come from nothing. Thus,
>>there HAS to be something BEYOND science and our knowledge that exists and
>>that HAD to come before the earth/universe.
>
> I would certainly never posit that the earth has always existed-- it
> seems pretty clear that's not the case.
>
> Let's start with your assumption that something has to come from
> nothing.
Well, that wasn't my assumption. That's just another way of stating the
great mystery, I think.
>Something as rich and complex as the universe had to have
> been created by some higher entity, yes?
No. It doesn't logically follow. I believe that to be the case for
spiritual and other reasons, but I, and other people of faith, can see the
logical fallacy in the above statement.
> If so, then that higher entity must in fact be more rich and complex
> than the universe. Are we still on the same page? Good.
No. Even assuming a Creator it doesn't necessarily follow that the Creator
is more complex than the creation.
> So if something as complex as the universe had to have been created,
> and god is more complex than the universe, it's necessary that god
> had to have been created by some still-more-complex entity.
No. The never-ending-loop where this logic is headed doesn't necessarily
follow.
>Once
> you start going down this logical path, you quickly wind up with an
> infinite string of ever-more-complex super-deities being necessary
> to create the next one in the chain. At the tail end there's a
> dude who spins off this little universe thing that we inhabit.
Nope. I think in most religions, the concept of God is of a being that has
always been, not something that has been created. God does not exist like
matter exists.
> But! You argue that something must come from nothing-- there has to
> be a stopping point in that infinite chain of deities. And yet you
> also argue that something that is as complex (or moreso) than the
> universe must have a creator. Those two things logically contradict
> each other.
No they don't.
> And voila! We've basically proven that your argument that "something
> had to come from nothing" is false. There has to have been SOMETHING
> that has always existed.
>
> The difference between me and you is that I'm willing to believe
> it's the universe that has always existed, and you tack on one
> additional level before you accept something as the origin.
That's a reasonable belief to have, but's not proof that God doesn't exist
(which was Orange SFOs orginal snipe).
Why would you believe the universe has always existed? The trillions of
planets and galaxies just popped into space one day? And where did space
come from? How did it get here?
I think whatever answers you can attach to these questions are at least as
dissatisfying as an answer based upon religion.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 11:54:23
From: Peg Smith
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam] > wrote:
>Why would you believe the universe has always existed? The trillions of
>planets and galaxies just popped into space one day? And where did space
>come from? How did it get here?
I have absolutely no idea. I just don't think that the concept of
"God" ties everything up in a neat little bow, because all those
questions now apply to the existence of "God". And that's what Patti's
discussion of "levels of creation" addresses.
>I think whatever answers you can attach to these questions are at least as
>dissatisfying as an answer based upon religion.
I have no answers. And I don't need "God" to provide them for me. Just
because we don't know the answers now doesn't mean we won't in the
future. Scientific knowledge has been increasing since we jumped down
from the trees and started walking upright.
The concept of a "God" just raises the same questions on the next
level.
Peg
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 12:15:19
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"Peg Smith" <PegSmithNow@aol.comnojunk > wrote in message
news:irn5o2d97ptj9arh08d8jdhae25jikfs4b@4ax.com...
> "James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam]> wrote:
>
>>Why would you believe the universe has always existed? The trillions of
>>planets and galaxies just popped into space one day? And where did space
>>come from? How did it get here?
>
> I have absolutely no idea. I just don't think that the concept of
> "God" ties everything up in a neat little bow, because all those
> questions now apply to the existence of "God". And that's what Patti's
> discussion of "levels of creation" addresses.
Well, I think she got too cutesy with the complexity-loop (or was that
Admiral Stockdale?), but her final thought---about choosing to believe that
the universe had always existed---at least makes sense. My only point is
that the questions that arise from that belief are at least as imponderable
as the questions that arise from a belief in a Creator.
But I forgive Orange. Better to ponder these large philosophical questions
than to wait and see how the Democrats can fuck up the gift that has been
handed to them.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 12:47:48
From: ShuffletownKid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam] > wrote in message
news:qJAgh.13062$un3.4806@newsfe14.phx...
>
> "Peg Smith" <PegSmithNow@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> news:opj5o2l496g7jerdllmvbij8ttiu7svm46@4ax.com...
>> "James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam]> wrote:
>>
>>>Really? Give me one. You mean like everything was a little ball at one
>>>point 15 billion years ago and then exploded? How is that more rational
>>>that a Creator? How did the ball get there? are there other balls?
>>
>> From: Patti Beadles
>> Date: Tues, Dec 7 2004 12:39 pm
>>
>> Admiral Stockdale <seattle...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>From a logical standpoint, not an atheist or "believer" standpoint:
>>>Assume from the previous arguments SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.
>>>You
>>>say that any argument that states God has always been is undermined by
>>>simply saying that the same reasoning can work saying that the universe
>>>has
>>>always been. In other words, something had to come from nothing (it is
>>>beyond comprehension that something has "always" been). We KNOW the
>>>earth.
>>>We see it, walk on it, touch it. It is COMPLETELY beyond comprehension
>>>that
>>>the earth, even the smallest molecule of it, can come from nothing.
>>>Thus,
>>>there HAS to be something BEYOND science and our knowledge that exists
>>>and
>>>that HAD to come before the earth/universe.
>>
>> I would certainly never posit that the earth has always existed-- it
>> seems pretty clear that's not the case.
>>
>> Let's start with your assumption that something has to come from
>> nothing.
>
>
> Well, that wasn't my assumption. That's just another way of stating the
> great mystery, I think.
>
>
>>Something as rich and complex as the universe had to have
>> been created by some higher entity, yes?
>
>
>
>
> No. It doesn't logically follow. I believe that to be the case for
> spiritual and other reasons, but I, and other people of faith, can see the
> logical fallacy in the above statement.
>
>
>
>> If so, then that higher entity must in fact be more rich and complex
>> than the universe. Are we still on the same page? Good.
>
>
> No. Even assuming a Creator it doesn't necessarily follow that the
> Creator is more complex than the creation.
>
>
>> So if something as complex as the universe had to have been created,
>> and god is more complex than the universe, it's necessary that god
>> had to have been created by some still-more-complex entity.
>
>
> No. The never-ending-loop where this logic is headed doesn't necessarily
> follow.
>
>
>>Once
>> you start going down this logical path, you quickly wind up with an
>> infinite string of ever-more-complex super-deities being necessary
>> to create the next one in the chain. At the tail end there's a
>> dude who spins off this little universe thing that we inhabit.
>
>
> Nope. I think in most religions, the concept of God is of a being that
> has always been, not something that has been created. God does not exist
> like matter exists.
>
>
>
>> But! You argue that something must come from nothing-- there has to
>> be a stopping point in that infinite chain of deities. And yet you
>> also argue that something that is as complex (or moreso) than the
>> universe must have a creator. Those two things logically contradict
>> each other.
>
>
> No they don't.
>
>
>> And voila! We've basically proven that your argument that "something
>> had to come from nothing" is false. There has to have been SOMETHING
>> that has always existed.
>>
>> The difference between me and you is that I'm willing to believe
>> it's the universe that has always existed, and you tack on one
>> additional level before you accept something as the origin.
>
>
>
> That's a reasonable belief to have, but's not proof that God doesn't exist
> (which was Orange SFOs orginal snipe).
>
> Why would you believe the universe has always existed? The trillions of
> planets and galaxies just popped into space one day? And where did space
> come from? How did it get here?
>
>
> I think whatever answers you can attach to these questions are at least as
> dissatisfying as an answer based upon religion.
"Nothing" doesn't exist. You can't get something from nothing. If you get
down to the lowest level, there had to be something for anything to exist.
From that level, everything evolved. You couldn't have a god preexist, it
could only evolve. There is nothing divine about evolution, so there is no
possibility of a god.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 12:05:01
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"ShuffletownKid" <sk@nospamserver.com > wrote in message
news:4582dfc4$0$11195$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Nothing" doesn't exist.
Sure it does.
>You can't get something from nothing.
Well, that's the great mystery, isn't it? How did all the stuff (planets,
etc.) get here? If you don't believe they were always here then how did
they get here?
>If you get down to the lowest level, there had to be something for anything
>to exist.
OK.
> From that level, everything evolved. You couldn't have a god preexist, it
> could only evolve.
That doesn't make any sense. Something that evolves could have pre-existed.
>There is nothing divine about evolution, so there is no possibility of a
>god.
Leaving aside the theological question of whether there is divinity in
evolution, the absence of divinity in evolution has no connection with
whether God exists. Your statement above makes no logical sense at all.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:55:31
From: ShuffletownKid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam] > wrote in message
news:NsBgh.13070$un3.8472@newsfe14.phx...
>
> "ShuffletownKid" <sk@nospamserver.com> wrote in message
> news:4582dfc4$0$11195$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
>> "Nothing" doesn't exist.
>
>
> Sure it does.
Where is it?
>>You can't get something from nothing.
>
>
> Well, that's the great mystery, isn't it? How did all the stuff (planets,
> etc.) get here? If you don't believe they were always here then how did
> they get here?
Something was there.
>>If you get down to the lowest level, there had to be something for
>>anything to exist.
>
>
> OK.
So, you can't have a god before you have what god is made of.
>> From that level, everything evolved. You couldn't have a god preexist, it
>> could only evolve.
>
>
> That doesn't make any sense. Something that evolves could have
> pre-existed.
In that sense, everything preexisted in some form. Creation is a product of
evolution.
>>There is nothing divine about evolution, so there is no possibility of a
>>god.
>
> Leaving aside the theological question of whether there is divinity in
> evolution, the absence of divinity in evolution has no connection with
> whether God exists. Your statement above makes no logical sense at all.
How could a god be created through the evolution of existing mater? Prior to
the formation of a god there would have to be divinity. Prior to divinity
there would have to be a god. God is not a logical concept.
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:31:19
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"ShuffletownKid" <sk@nospamserver.com > wrote in message
news:4582efa2$0$11105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam]> wrote in message
> news:NsBgh.13070$un3.8472@newsfe14.phx...
>>
>> "ShuffletownKid" <sk@nospamserver.com> wrote in message
>> news:4582dfc4$0$11195$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>>
>>> "Nothing" doesn't exist.
>>
>>
>> Sure it does.
>
> Where is it?
It's called "space."
>>>You can't get something from nothing.
>>
>>
>> Well, that's the great mystery, isn't it? How did all the stuff
>> (planets, etc.) get here? If you don't believe they were always here
>> then how did they get here?
>
> Something was there.
Really? How do you know?
>>>If you get down to the lowest level, there had to be something for
>>>anything to exist.
>>
>>
>> OK.
>
> So, you can't have a god before you have what god is made of.
>
>>> From that level, everything evolved. You couldn't have a god preexist,
>>> it could only evolve.
>>
>>
>> That doesn't make any sense. Something that evolves could have
>> pre-existed.
>
> In that sense, everything preexisted in some form. Creation is a product
> of evolution.
No it isn't. They are distinct concepts.
>>>There is nothing divine about evolution, so there is no possibility of a
>>>god.
>>
>> Leaving aside the theological question of whether there is divinity in
>> evolution, the absence of divinity in evolution has no connection with
>> whether God exists. Your statement above makes no logical sense at all.
>
> How could a god be created through the evolution of existing mater?
Why are you asking me? Christians believe that God was not created. It is
a being that always was.
>Prior to the formation of a god there would have to be divinity.
Why? You say that like it's an obvious fact.
>Prior to divinity there would have to be a god. God is not a logical
>concept.
LOL...God is anything but a logical concept. God is a religious/theological
concept.
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 17:15:37
From: ShuffletownKid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam] > wrote in message
news:IJCgh.21024$Zb5.12356@newsfe13.phx...
>
> "ShuffletownKid" <sk@nospamserver.com> wrote in message
> news:4582efa2$0$11105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net[no spam]> wrote in message
>> news:NsBgh.13070$un3.8472@newsfe14.phx...
>>>
>>> "ShuffletownKid" <sk@nospamserver.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4582dfc4$0$11195$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Nothing" doesn't exist.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure it does.
>>
>> Where is it?
>
>
> It's called "space."
Space isn't nothingness.
>>>>You can't get something from nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that's the great mystery, isn't it? How did all the stuff
>>> (planets, etc.) get here? If you don't believe they were always here
>>> then how did they get here?
>>
>> Something was there.
>
>
> Really? How do you know?
Reason.
>>>>If you get down to the lowest level, there had to be something for
>>>>anything to exist.
>>>
>>>
>>> OK.
>>
>> So, you can't have a god before you have what god is made of.
>>
>>>> From that level, everything evolved. You couldn't have a god preexist,
>>>> it could only evolve.
>>>
>>>
>>> That doesn't make any sense. Something that evolves could have
>>> pre-existed.
>>
>> In that sense, everything preexisted in some form. Creation is a product
>> of evolution.
>
>
> No it isn't. They are distinct concepts.
>
>
>>>>There is nothing divine about evolution, so there is no possibility of a
>>>>god.
>>>
>>> Leaving aside the theological question of whether there is divinity in
>>> evolution, the absence of divinity in evolution has no connection with
>>> whether God exists. Your statement above makes no logical sense at all.
>>
>> How could a god be created through the evolution of existing mater?
>
>
> Why are you asking me? Christians believe that God was not created. It
> is a being that always was.
>
>
>
>>Prior to the formation of a god there would have to be divinity.
>
>
> Why? You say that like it's an obvious fact.
>
>
>>Prior to divinity there would have to be a god. God is not a logical
>>concept.
>
>
> LOL...God is anything but a logical concept. God is a
> religious/theological concept.
>
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:06:58
From: KilgoreTrout
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 15 2006 12:14 PM, James L. Hankins wrote:
>
> Why would you believe the universe has always existed? The trillions of
> planets and galaxies just popped into space one day? And where did space
> come from? How did it get here?
First of all, your first two questions are contradictory. No one who
believes the universe has always existed also believes the trillions of
planets (shouldn't that be stars? Although, as of late, we do suspect an
abundence of planets as well) and galaxies just popped into space one day.
Another problem is that you are using words like "always", that invoke
time.
No universe, no time.
Questions about what happened before the universe make zero sense.
Now, you could talk about our universe being embedded in a larger
"multiverse", or being an "offspring" verse. Then you might talk about
the time our universe was created, from some other perspective. Of
course, this brings in the original problem, where we have simply pushed
all the important questions back one level.
Besides, the big bang theory isn't the only game in town. There are
alternatives that don't involve a "beginning".
None of these theories involves a bunch of stars and galaxies just popping
into place, fully formed.
Further, your understanding of "space" is flawed. The universe isn't
expanding out into empty space, as you seem to presume. Think more in
terms of a balloon being blown up; paint some stars and such on the inside
of that ballon. Now, all the stars are getting further away from one and
other as the balloon expands, without crossing the boundry into some
larger medium, right? (although this analogy is also problematic, for
other reasons).
>
>
> I think whatever answers you can attach to these questions are at least as
> dissatisfying as an answer based upon religion.
Sure, when you rig the questions.
------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 00:40:45
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific theory.
The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created this
universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 23:15:33
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 16 2006 1:40 AM, ben carr wrote:
> Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific theory.
> The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created this
> universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
Correct !
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
--------
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 00:47:58
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 15 2006 11:15 PM, igotskillz com wrote:
> On Dec 16 2006 1:40 AM, ben carr wrote:
>
> > Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific theory.
> > The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created this
> > universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
>
> Correct !
This is one of the most simplistic things I've ever read.
Two questions. Why did "god" pick our little speck of dust in "his"
enourmous universe to create us, and why are humans, who have been here
for what, 10k, 20k years, the ones god cares about? Dinosaurs were here
for what, 65 million years? Were they just god's first attempt gone wrong?
>
>
>
> Thank YOU
>
> www.igotskillz.com
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
-------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 07:33:44
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Brewmaster--Who says didnt put life on other planets? And to answer your
dinosaur question, species come and go. The dinosaurs just died out
because they couldnt survive the environment they were in. There are
species going extinct today, hence the endangered species list.
Evolution happens and extinction is a part of it. I dont understand your
point and what dinosaurs have to do with anything. Maybe you were
referring to their brain size in comparison to yours?
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 11:23:57
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 17 2006 4:33 AM, ben carr wrote:
> Brewmaster--Who says didnt put life on other planets? And to answer your
> dinosaur question, species come and go. The dinosaurs just died out
> because they couldnt survive the environment they were in. There are
> species going extinct today, hence the endangered species list.
> Evolution happens and extinction is a part of it. I dont understand your
> point and what dinosaurs have to do with anything. Maybe you were
> referring to their brain size in comparison to yours?
I was saying that humans are just a very very very late addition to the
species that are coming and going on this planet. Other species have had
much longer longevity than we have had, and, by all indications, will
have. Why is our existence somehow divine compared to the existence of
other species?
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 01:53:09
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Brew. our existence isnt more divine than that of any other species. In
the bible it says god created us in his image. Most people think that
means physically.I think it means spiritually. I think it means god
created us with the ability to learn and think faster than any animal so
far, that we know of. That is the only difference I see between us and
apes.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 03:58:44
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
I am not stating that i accept the Bible word for word.
Mankind has lived here before.
This is not his only place with humans either.
On Dec 16 2006 4:47 AM, Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> On Dec 15 2006 11:15 PM, igotskillz com wrote:
>
> > On Dec 16 2006 1:40 AM, ben carr wrote:
> >
> > > Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific theory.
> > > The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created this
> > > universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
> >
> > Correct !
>
> This is one of the most simplistic things I've ever read.
>
> Two questions. Why did "god" pick our little speck of dust in "his"
> enourmous universe to create us, and why are humans, who have been here
> for what, 10k, 20k years, the ones god cares about? Dinosaurs were here
> for what, 65 million years? Were they just god's first attempt gone wrong?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank YOU
> >
> > www.igotskillz.com
>
>
> ------
> brewmaster at brewcam dot com
>
> "Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
> you look at it right" -RH
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
---
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 07:29:16
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
I dont follow along with what I am told, like most other christians. I
have my own ideas. I dont think the bible is something to be taken
literally. Just because zealous christians think the bible is the end
all of everything doesnt make it true. For instance, it took god 6 days
to make the universe then he rested. First of all if he has to rest he
isnt god. Second, a day is how long it takes for our planet to spin
around one time. How can god have days?
I think god set up the universe like you would set up dominoes to be
knocked over. You plan it out, put everythin in its place. but once you
push the first domino you dont do much else. God could have made the
universe in one single point in spacetime, then "pushed the first
domino'". He set it up so that the big bang could and would occur. He
set it up so that life matter would congregate and create planets and
that life could evolve on the planets. Science doesnt disprove god and
the bible doesnt disprove science.
Today's christian religions are different than the one Jesus set out to
build. I dont think he meant for people to say the same prayers over and
over like the catholics do. I dont think he wanted the southern baptists
to make rules like "men must wear button up shirts with a t-shirt unde"
like some of them do. I dont think Jesus wante people to let snakes
loose in their church like some do. The bible isnt god. The torah and
koran arent god. I believe in god, and follow the christian ideas, but i
dont just believe something becaue othpr religious people do.
That is what turns most poeple off from religion. They see it as a
narrow minded, restrictive institution that rarely makes sense. A lot of
christians dont even believe what they think they do. Jesus said if you
believe in him you get to heaven, but now christians have a million
rules about what to do and not do. Hell, jesus forgave the murderer who
asked for it and hung out with a prostitute. Anyone do that today and
you wont be allowed in church. The bible also says to look up and wonder
about gods creation (or something like that). Isnt that what science is?
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 11:11:31
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
I liked and agreed with much in your post, especially about the dominos.
I have always fantasized that earth's god was actually a high school
student in god classes of the universe. He started his science project,
got disgusted and abandoned it to its own devices. Thus evolution.
On Dec 17 2006 7:29 AM, ben carr wrote:
> I dont follow along with what I am told, like most other christians. I
> have my own ideas. I dont think the bible is something to be taken
> literally. Just because zealous christians think the bible is the end
> all of everything doesnt make it true. For instance, it took god 6 days
> to make the universe then he rested. First of all if he has to rest he
> isnt god. Second, a day is how long it takes for our planet to spin
> around one time. How can god have days?
>
> I think god set up the universe like you would set up dominoes to be
> knocked over. You plan it out, put everythin in its place. but once you
> push the first domino you dont do much else. God could have made the
> universe in one single point in spacetime, then "pushed the first
> domino'". He set it up so that the big bang could and would occur. He
> set it up so that life matter would congregate and create planets and
> that life could evolve on the planets. Science doesnt disprove god and
> the bible doesnt disprove science.
>
> Today's christian religions are different than the one Jesus set out to
> build. I dont think he meant for people to say the same prayers over and
> over like the catholics do. I dont think he wanted the southern baptists
> to make rules like "men must wear button up shirts with a t-shirt unde"
> like some of them do. I dont think Jesus wante people to let snakes
> loose in their church like some do. The bible isnt god. The torah and
> koran arent god. I believe in god, and follow the christian ideas, but i
> dont just believe something becaue othpr religious people do.
>
> That is what turns most poeple off from religion. They see it as a
> narrow minded, restrictive institution that rarely makes sense. A lot of
> christians dont even believe what they think they do. Jesus said if you
> believe in him you get to heaven, but now christians have a million
> rules about what to do and not do. Hell, jesus forgave the murderer who
> asked for it and hung out with a prostitute. Anyone do that today and
> you wont be allowed in church. The bible also says to look up and wonder
> about gods creation (or something like that). Isnt that what science is?
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
--------
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 14:12:41
From: ShuffletownKid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"ben carr" <up-high@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:528-4585381C-863@storefull-3356.bay.webtv.net...
>I dont follow along with what I am told, like most other christians. I
> have my own ideas. I dont think the bible is something to be taken
> literally. Just because zealous christians think the bible is the end
> all of everything doesnt make it true. For instance, it took god 6 days
> to make the universe then he rested. First of all if he has to rest he
> isnt god. Second, a day is how long it takes for our planet to spin
> around one time. How can god have days?
>
> I think god set up the universe like you would set up dominoes to be
> knocked over. You plan it out, put everythin in its place. but once you
> push the first domino you dont do much else. God could have made the
> universe in one single point in spacetime, then "pushed the first
> domino'". He set it up so that the big bang could and would occur. He
> set it up so that life matter would congregate and create planets and
> that life could evolve on the planets. Science doesnt disprove god and
> the bible doesnt disprove science.
>
> Today's christian religions are different than the one Jesus set out to
> build. I dont think he meant for people to say the same prayers over and
> over like the catholics do. I dont think he wanted the southern baptists
> to make rules like "men must wear button up shirts with a t-shirt unde"
> like some of them do. I dont think Jesus wante people to let snakes
> loose in their church like some do. The bible isnt god. The torah and
> koran arent god. I believe in god, and follow the christian ideas, but i
> dont just believe something becaue othpr religious people do.
>
> That is what turns most poeple off from religion. They see it as a
> narrow minded, restrictive institution that rarely makes sense. A lot of
> christians dont even believe what they think they do. Jesus said if you
> believe in him you get to heaven, but now christians have a million
> rules about what to do and not do. Hell, jesus forgave the murderer who
> asked for it and hung out with a prostitute. Anyone do that today and
> you wont be allowed in church. The bible also says to look up and wonder
> about gods creation (or something like that). Isnt that what science is?
>
Why do you believe in this god you have created?
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 01:57:21
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Shuffletown,
I believe in god probably because that was how I was raised. But,
besides that, I think it is the safe thing to do. If I am wrong and
there is no god then when we die we will both be in the same boat. If
atheists are wrong and there is a god, then they are risking a lot.
Maybe there isnt a god, maybe there is. I am going to play it safe. I
dont follow the rules that the church makes. I live a normal life and do
many things that go against common religion. Believing in god doesnt
affect my life in a negative way like a lot of christians. To put it in
poker terms, the winnings could be huge while the losses are negligible.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 02:08:13
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 01:57:21 -0500, up-high@webtv.net (ben carr) wrote:
>Shuffletown,
> I believe in god probably because that was how I was raised. But,
>besides that, I think it is the safe thing to do. If I am wrong and
>there is no god then when we die we will both be in the same boat. If
>atheists are wrong and there is a god, then they are risking a lot.
Only if the God that exists actually resembles the goofy human belief
that a God who creates universes somehow insists on being worshipped
and if you don't, will torture you for all eternity in ways that would make the
serial killer John Wayne Gacy look like a nice guy, but yet loves you
unconditionally.
I don't know whether God exists, but I categorically disbelieve
that particular moronic version of God, created by tribes of savages
thousands of years ago as a social control scam.
Perhaps the God that exists will actually chuck people stupid enough
to believe the Abrahamic religions as failed experiments and only
reincarnate the ones who didn't buy the bullshit. In that case, you
could be taking a huge risk by believing in nonsense like
Christianity.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 03:53:00
From: ShuffletownKid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"ben carr" <up-high@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:491-458386DD-677@storefull-3355.bay.webtv.net...
> Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific theory.
> The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created this
> universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
>
You have a creationist theory that is supported by related scientific
evidence?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 14:39:35
From: Travel
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
ShuffletownKid;1010212 Wrote:
> "ben carr" <up-high@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:491-458386DD-677@storefull-3355.bay.webtv.net...
> > Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific
> theory.
> > The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created
> this
> > universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
> >
>
> You have a creationist theory that is supported by related scientific
> evidence?
He's saying that evolution is for real, using the same scientific
evidence you are, but that god created the evolution dynamic. What's so
difficult to undersand?
--
Travel
- http://www.pokerhelper.com RGP Access News Forums -
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 11:05:12
From: ShuffletownKid
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"Travel" <Travel.2iwxru@no-mx..pokerhelper.com > wrote in message
news:Travel.2iwxru@no-mx..pokerhelper.com...
>
> ShuffletownKid;1010212 Wrote:
>> "ben carr" <up-high@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:491-458386DD-677@storefull-3355.bay.webtv.net...
>> > Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific
>> theory.
>> > The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created
>> this
>> > universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
>> >
>>
>> You have a creationist theory that is supported by related scientific
>> evidence?
>
>
> He's saying that evolution is for real, using the same scientific
> evidence you are, but that god created the evolution dynamic. What's so
> difficult to undersand?
>
> --
> Travel
Scientific evidence doesn't support that creationist theory. What's
difficult to understand is how you could embrace a theory that would
invalidate the Bible, which is your only supporting instrument in that
theory - God created the heavens.
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 08:37:01
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
ben carr wrote:
> Hanikin, you talk like creationism is exclusive from scietific theory.
> The big bang could have been produced by god. Who says god created this
> universe the way it it? He could have made it to evolve/
What you describe above is not what people usually mean when they say
"Creationism". Most Creationists believe that the Bible is literally
true, and God created everything about 6000 years ago.
There is overwhelming physical evidence that the Earth is billions of
years old, and that all the living things on this planet are related by
common descent through the process of evolution. I have no reason to
believe that God set things up that way, but it's possible. It is not
possible for Genesis to be literally true.
- Bob T.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 03:49:23
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Irish Reich wrote:
> God exists and he created every thing in the world. Prove me wrong.
You have no evidence to present. Your case is dismissed.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:37:56
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
"OrangeSFO" <intangible103@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1166183362.764357.66420@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Irish Reich wrote:
>
>
>> God exists and he created every thing in the world. Prove me wrong.
>
>
> You have no evidence to present. Your case is dismissed.
You exist on a planet called Earth do you not? You acknowledge that there
is a larger universe in which the planet Earth is situated, do you not?
That's a lot of physical evidence. You can argue that a being called God
didn't create any of it, but I think a dismissal based on a lack of evidence
is improvident.
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 14:51:35
From: Travel
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
OrangeSFO;1010038 Wrote:
>
>
>
>
> -"The difference is that the rational/scientific approach will always
> continue to ask questions,"-
>
> Uh, there aren't any scientists who believe in god? People who believe
> in god don't "ask questions". That's good to know. Thanks for the
> enlightening factoid, but I'm pretty sure there's been plenty of
> christian scientists. Also, academe hasn't always been infested with
> anti religious Marxists.
>
> Who do you think brought us these great advances in science exactly? It
> wasn't these liberal hack frauds who are running things now. No, it was
> people who believe in god; people who are pro religion.
>
> ........................
>
>
>
> -"whereas the creationist approach throws up
> its hands and declares "end of discussion" and gets annoyed with
> anyone
> who'd like to continue exploring the matter."-
>
>
> What are you talking about? Religions aren't against scientific
> explanations.
>
> No, I'm sure they'll explore the the matter to it's fullest extent. As
> far as what is behind it all, ultimately, they have a belief in god.
>
>
> Well, see, Orange UFO, when you post more than your usual one line of
> hatred, you reveal there isn't much else going on.
> Stay away from whole paragraphs.
>
>
Travel
--
Travel
- http://www.pokerhelper.com RGP Access News Forums -
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 00:34:27
From:
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Irish Mike wrote:
> "On Dec 14 2006 2:36 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
>
> > There is no "Lord"
> >
> > Prove me wrong."
>
> God exists and he created every thing in the world. Prove me wrong.
>
> Irish Mike
God cheered the 9/11 hijackers and personally oversees partial birth
abortions and gang rapes while snorting gasoline. Prove me wrong.
Dolt.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 20:23:03
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Irish Reich wrote:
> This whole "Does God exist" debate is futile and a colossal waste of time.
Got that All of Humankind...?
Irish Mike says addressing ONLY THE MOST ESSENTIAL QUESTION ANY
SENTIENT BEING COULD PONDER is...
"...a colossal waste of time."
We certainly are in a golden age of enlightenment.
Mike says CASE CLOSED. You can go back to your huts.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 20:18:04
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Irish Reich wrote:
> This whole "Does God exist" debate is futile and a colossal waste of time.
> I believe in
> God and so do the vast majority of people.
Thank you for proving my point Mike--
--that creationists want nothing to do with exploring the question and
will move to shut down the conversation as quickly as possible.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 16:54:10
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
mo_charles wrote:
> why insist creationism and science are antithetical when you correctly
> conclude otherwise?
Because, as I said, creationists aren't really interested in an answer
to the Big Question.
The very fact that there IS a question threatens them and the wager
they've made.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 15:13:10
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
And here's an irony:
The hard proof of God's existence--if there's any to be found-- will
probably be discovered by a scientist expecting to prove exactly the
opposite.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 23:13:44
From: igotskillz com
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 15 2006 7:13 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
> And here's an irony:
>
>
> The hard proof of God's existence--if there's any to be found-- will
> probably be discovered by a scientist expecting to prove exactly the
> opposite.
A group of scientists set out, 10 years ago to prove that we are related
to apes.
instead they discovered our dna followed biblical descriptions and we had
no more common dna with monkeys than we do with dogs cats and birds.
The college was in the midwest somewhere
Thank YOU
www.igotskillz.com
________________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:32:38
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
James L. Hankins wrote:
>
> I think whatever answers you can attach to these questions are at least as
> dissatisfying as an answer based upon religion.
The difference is that the rational/scientific approach will always
continue to ask questions, whereas the creationist approach throws up
its hands and declares "end of discussion" and gets annoyed with anyone
who'd like to continue exploring the matter.
Also, the creationist--let's face it--is afraid of what the ultimate
truth might be, and so fights tooth and nail to avoid any progress
toward an answer to the God question
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!".
The scientist (I'm using the term loosely to include anyone who prefers
the evidence of their eyes and ears to "faith") is ready to accept the
truth no matter what it may be, as long as it's satisfactorily proven.
If there is a God--one who gave us a brain--I think he would be pretty
disappointed in those who wilfully resist using it.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 16:45:46
From: mo_charles
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
> > I think whatever answers you can attach to these questions are at least as
> > dissatisfying as an answer based upon religion.
>
> The difference is that the rational/scientific approach will always
> continue to ask questions, whereas the creationist approach throws up
> its hands and declares "end of discussion" and gets annoyed with anyone
> who'd like to continue exploring the matter.
>
> Also, the creationist--let's face it--is afraid of what the ultimate
> truth might be, and so fights tooth and nail to avoid any progress
> toward an answer to the God question
>
> "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!".
>
> The scientist (I'm using the term loosely to include anyone who prefers
> the evidence of their eyes and ears to "faith") is ready to accept the
> truth no matter what it may be, as long as it's satisfactorily proven.
>
> If there is a God--one who gave us a brain--I think he would be pretty
> disappointed in those who wilfully resist using it.
why insist creationism and science are antithetical when you correctly
conclude otherwise?
mo_charles
--------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 09:16:34
From: Charles Darwin
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
igotskillz com wrote:
> On Dec 15 2006 7:13 PM, OrangeSFO wrote:
>
> > And here's an irony:
> >
> >
> > The hard proof of God's existence--if there's any to be found-- will
> > probably be discovered by a scientist expecting to prove exactly the
> > opposite.
>
> A group of scientists set out, 10 years ago to prove that we are related
> to apes.
> instead they discovered our dna followed biblical descriptions and we had
> no more common dna with monkeys than we do with dogs cats and birds.
>
>
>
> The college was in the midwest somewhere
>
> Thank YOU
>
> www.igotskillz.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
> The college was in the midwest somewhere
Well, that proves it!
|
| | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 08:27:01
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
igotskillz com wrote:
>
> A group of scientists set out, 10 years ago to prove that we are related
> to apes.
> instead they discovered our dna followed biblical descriptions and we had
> no more common dna with monkeys than we do with dogs cats and birds.
This is completely untrue. In actual fact, when you compare DNA among
different species, the data clearly supports the Theory of Evolution.
We share almost all of our DNA with chimpanzees and bonobos, nearly as
much with gorillas, slightly less with the other apes, etc., just as
the ToE predicted long before scientists knew how to measure DNA
similarity.
>
> The college was in the midwest somewhere
Yes, and it had the word "Bible" in its name.
- Bob T.
>
> Thank YOU
>
> www.igotskillz.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 06:05:46
From: Travel
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Bob T.;1010269[color=blue Wrote:
>
> >
> > The college was in the midwest somewhere[/color]
>
> Yes, and it had the word "Bible" in its name.
>
> - Bob T.
> >
> > Thank YOU
> >
> > www.igotskillz.com
> >
> > _______________
Ya, well, we'll just believe in studies from colleges run by socialists
wih an intense anti religion agenda, how's that.
--
Travel
- http://www.pokerhelper.com RGP Access News Forums -
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 10:07:58
From: KilgoreTrout
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
On Dec 17 2006 1:05 AM, Travel wrote:
> Bob T.;1010269[color=blue Wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The college was in the midwest somewhere[/color]
> >
> > Yes, and it had the word "Bible" in its name.
> >
> > - Bob T.
> > >
> > > Thank YOU
> > >
> > > www.igotskillz.com
> > >
> > > _______________
>
>
> Ya, well, we'll just believe in studies from colleges run by socialists
> wih an intense anti religion agenda, how's that.
>
>
> --
> Travel
> - http://www.pokerhelper.com RGP Access News Forums -
So yer argument is that public schools have more of a religion-related
agenda than schools like Oral Roberts?
Brilliant!
-------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 23:49:50
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
igotskillz com wrote:
> A group of scientists set out, 10 years ago to prove that we are related
> to apes.
> instead they discovered our dna followed biblical descriptions and we had
> no more common dna with monkeys than we do with dogs cats and birds.
"A group of scientists" ??
LOL. Thanks Skillz. I needed that.
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:48:29
From:
Subject: Re: The Lord works in mysterious ways!
|
Vegas Vic wrote:
> That should be enough to get the leftist kook posters fuming.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
not nearly enough. i just smile, chuckle and think, " i wonder what
color the sky is in his world".
AA
|
|
