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Date: 02 Dec 2006 21:55:52
From: GM
Subject: Suited connectors
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Just a quick question.
Are suited connectors overrated?
How big of a raise would you call with a suited connector?
What % of your chip stack would you call?
Would you take into account the implied odds if the raiser has a deep stack?
If you flop an open ender in early position against a raiser on the button,
would you bet on the come and then call if it got raised?
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Date: 02 Dec 13:49:23
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: Suited connectors
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I would say about 5% of the stack should be the maximum you should be calling a
raise with, but you should probably call for slighly more if you raised coming
in and got reraise.
Be careful about calling a raise/reraise if you are in EP and there are still
active players behind. One thing you do not want with siuted connectors is
being meat in the middle in a raising war.
With a good draw on flop, it really depends on the texture of the flop as to
whether you should lead out or not. I normally prefer to check, and see what
the action is before deciding. I'd check-raise if the bet looks weak from the
preflop raiser, and might just call if its a strong bet, and I only have 8 outs,
or I might fold in this situation. It depends if I think I can get his stack if
I hit.
In position, I would try to put in a raise to gauge the reaction if it looks
like a continuation bet. To a strong bet, I might push or I might fold
depending on the number of outs I have, and how likely would I to stack him if I
hit.
On Dec 2 2006 10:55 AM, GM wrote:
> Just a quick question.
> Are suited connectors overrated?
> How big of a raise would you call with a suited connector?
> What % of your chip stack would you call?
> Would you take into account the implied odds if the raiser has a deep stack?
> If you flop an open ender in early position against a raiser on the button,
> would you bet on the come and then call if it got raised?
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 05:27:27
From: Ian Stuart
Subject: Re: Suited connectors
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On Dec 2 2006 10:55 AM, GM wrote:
> Just a quick question.
> Are suited connectors overrated?
Sometimes, but so are big pairs, AK, AQ and even AA (after the flop);
> How big of a raise would you call with a suited connector?
Depends on stack sizes, position, previous action, tourney or ring game.
Basically, the question is unanswerable because it depends on many other
factors.
> What % of your chip stack would you call?
See previous answer.
> Would you take into account the implied odds if the raiser has a deep stack?
If it's NL or PL definately, if limit probably not.
> If you flop an open ender in early position against a raiser on the button,
> would you bet on the come and then call if it got raised?
Maybe. Depends on whether I thought I could slow him down or semi-bluff
him.
---
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 16:21:53
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Suited connectors
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On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 21:55:52 +1100, "GM" <None@f.your.business.com > wrote:
>Just a quick question.
>Are suited connectors overrated?
>How big of a raise would you call with a suited connector?
>What % of your chip stack would you call?
>Would you take into account the implied odds if the raiser has a deep stack?
>If you flop an open ender in early position against a raiser on the button,
>would you bet on the come and then call if it got raised?
What's your situation? Who are you playing? What are the stack
sizes? Is the raiser someone who can lay down a hand after the flop?
Where is the raiser? How much does the raiser have left? Is he
pot committed? Are there other callers?
While you are probably not justified in calling much more than 5-10%
of your stack with suited connectors, there are circumstances where
it makes sense. Your chance of making a well disguised hand combines
with your chance of pushing someone off the hand with a bluff after
the flop or even later. There are times you should not call, but reraise,
and then continue to play it as a big hand after the flop (and where
of course if you do hit a big hand/draw it's going to be very well hidden).
Since your profit in playing the hand is going to be in long implied odds,
you are far better off making this kind of play when you have a big stack
and so do your opponents. This is better in multiway situations. I am
more likely to make an "absurd" (10-15%) kind of call in a 4-5 player
pot, because there is a much higher likelihood that when you do hit big,
you can triple or quadruple up, especially in a tournament situation.
Usually, you're just looking at doubling, and even then, you are looking
at getting all in on the flop as a 60/40 or 55/45 favorite a lot of the time.
It's not worth calling a very large percentage of your stack to end up
in that kind of situation on many of your GOOD flops. (The very good
flops, where you are a monster favorite with trips or better, are what
you really hope for, but what you end up in more often are merely
marginally profitable situations).
Also, if the raiser is a good player, your implied odds are a lot shorter,
and you are playing hands like this less because they're inherently profitable
than because you don't want to be completely predictable. But if you
have no intention of ever playing them again, why bother? You want
high implied odds generally, meaning you want to be playing with people
who give them to you.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 12:54:40
From: GM
Subject: Re: Suited connectors
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"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:0fm3n2lqtk3mv4q1b1vekjr8k9lmhtvodl@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 21:55:52 +1100, "GM" <None@f.your.business.com> wrote:
>
>>Just a quick question.
>>Are suited connectors overrated?
>>How big of a raise would you call with a suited connector?
>>What % of your chip stack would you call?
>>Would you take into account the implied odds if the raiser has a deep
>>stack?
>>If you flop an open ender in early position against a raiser on the
>>button,
>>would you bet on the come and then call if it got raised?
>
> What's your situation? Who are you playing? What are the stack
> sizes? Is the raiser someone who can lay down a hand after the flop?
> Where is the raiser? How much does the raiser have left? Is he
> pot committed? Are there other callers?
>
> While you are probably not justified in calling much more than 5-10%
> of your stack with suited connectors, there are circumstances where
> it makes sense. Your chance of making a well disguised hand combines
> with your chance of pushing someone off the hand with a bluff after
> the flop or even later. There are times you should not call, but reraise,
> and then continue to play it as a big hand after the flop (and where
> of course if you do hit a big hand/draw it's going to be very well
> hidden).
>
> Since your profit in playing the hand is going to be in long implied odds,
> you are far better off making this kind of play when you have a big stack
> and so do your opponents. This is better in multiway situations. I am
> more likely to make an "absurd" (10-15%) kind of call in a 4-5 player
> pot, because there is a much higher likelihood that when you do hit big,
> you can triple or quadruple up, especially in a tournament situation.
>
> Usually, you're just looking at doubling, and even then, you are looking
> at getting all in on the flop as a 60/40 or 55/45 favorite a lot of the
> time.
> It's not worth calling a very large percentage of your stack to end up
> in that kind of situation on many of your GOOD flops. (The very good
> flops, where you are a monster favorite with trips or better, are what
> you really hope for, but what you end up in more often are merely
> marginally profitable situations).
>
> Also, if the raiser is a good player, your implied odds are a lot shorter,
> and you are playing hands like this less because they're inherently
> profitable
> than because you don't want to be completely predictable. But if you
> have no intention of ever playing them again, why bother? You want
> high implied odds generally, meaning you want to be playing with people
> who give them to you.
All very good advice. Much appreciated.
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 12:04:27
From: Tad Perry
Subject: Re: Suited connectors
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"GM" <None@f.your.business.com > wrote in message
news:45715bb2$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Just a quick question.
> Are suited connectors overrated?
Absolutely.
> How big of a raise would you call with a suited connector?
In most cases, I wouldn't call any raise.
> What % of your chip stack would you call?
> Would you take into account the implied odds if the raiser has a deep
stack?
The answer to both questions is that I'd have to be just as deep as the
raiser with only a fairly small relative investment to see the flop.
> If you flop an open ender in early position against a raiser on the
button,
> would you bet on the come and then call if it got raised?
Sometimes that's the only play you have. Often the odds are there to call
the raise, but you've committed two errors just to manufacture one correct
decision. Often you shouldn't have seen the flop, and you shouldn't have bet
your draw, but now that you have, you're stuck with continuing.
That's the purest definition of good money following bad I know and a rare
case of two wrongs making a right. The good money is also tainted, but it's
hidden in the details when the hand is split into separate decisions.
Look at how Hachem plays. He plays suited connectors once in awhile, but for
the most part he's showing big starting hands. Then every once in awhile
it's a suited connector and no one realizes he might have quad deuces.
That's the best way to play them: every now and then to keep opponents on
their toes. I think if you invest in every single suited connector you're
dealt (or even most) that you could be in trouble.
Pick your spots and remember it's better to be the aggressor than calling
raises.
Most of your post is about calling raises with suited connectors and for the
most part you shouldn't be calling raises with any hand.
tvp
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