Stud 8 question.

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Date: 04 Dec 2006 03:41:07
From: NCL
Subject: Stud 8 question.

Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.

Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.

You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.

Bring in calls.

4th street:

(As5s)5cTd

(xx)4hTs

You bet he calls.

5th street:

(As5s)5cTdQd

(xx)4hTsQh

You bet, he check-raises.

What is your general read of the situation and how do you proceed?

Date: 04 Dec 2006 08:21:21
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

On Dec 4 2006 2:41 AM, NCL wrote:

> Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.
>
> Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.
>
> You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.
>
> Bring in calls.
>
> 4th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTd
>
> (xx)4hTs
>
> You bet he calls.
>
>
> 5th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTdQd
>
> (xx)4hTsQh
>
> You bet, he check-raises.

He cannot checkraise, he can only raise.

>
>
> What is your general read of the situation and how do you proceed?

Given that this seems to be a high-limit game, there will be a lot of
deception regarding your hand. To your high-limit opponent, he may
correctly think that you are more likely to be going low, rather than
high, thus he is trying to take you off your busted draw by representing a
hidden high hand himself. He also has the benefit of knowing that becuase
you both caught Ts and Qs, that you are less likely to have had them pair
a hole card.

Your play, at this level, is to reraise. You know that he knows that you
know, and so on. If he is on a total bluff, he is likely to either fold
right here, or reraise. If he calls, it is very likely a hgih hand that
is not yet made (AK/AJ/KJ in the hole).

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 05 Dec 2006 03:31:30
From: Randy Hudson
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

In article <1hud44xu9n.ln2@recgroups.com >,
FellKnight <jordandevenport@hotmail.com > wrote:

> Your play, at this level, is to reraise.

I don't reraise here, I flat call and see the sixth street card. 50-50
he'll be betting first on that street, and will feel compelled to bet out,
and I can raise him then if I want (if it's a heart, or he pairs his board,
I will not want to raise). If he catches low, he's probably got either a
low pair or a four-card low, and I'll just check-and-call. If he catches a
9, J, or K, but I catch higher, I'll bet out if I paired or caught an ace,
and check-raise otherwise.

--
Randy Hudson

Date: 05 Dec 2006 05:01:24
From: Howard Beale
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

On Dec 4 2006 8:31 PM, Randy Hudson wrote:

> In article <1hud44xu9n.ln2@recgroups.com>,
> FellKnight <jordandevenport@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Your play, at this level, is to reraise.
>
> I don't reraise here, I flat call and see the sixth street card. 50-50
> he'll be betting first on that street, and will feel compelled to bet out,
> and I can raise him then if I want (if it's a heart, or he pairs his board,
> I will not want to raise). If he catches low, he's probably got either a
> low pair or a four-card low, and I'll just check-and-call. If he catches a
> 9, J, or K, but I catch higher, I'll bet out if I paired or caught an ace,
> and check-raise otherwise.
>
> --
> Randy Hudson

I don't like this line at all. I'd want to fold him now, not give him the
chance to get lucky on me. It's almost for sure he's got nothing and, if
that's so, should give up to a re-raise.

HB

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Date: 10 Dec 2006 00:59:24
From: Randy Hudson
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

In article <467g44xiqr.ln2@recgroups.com >,
Howard Beale <a1695@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

> On Dec 4 2006 8:31 PM, Randy Hudson wrote:

>> I don't reraise here, I flat call and see the sixth street card. 50-50
>> he'll be betting first on that street, and will feel compelled to bet out,
>> and I can raise him then if I want (if it's a heart, or he pairs his board,
>> I will not want to raise). If he catches low, he's probably got either a
>> low pair or a four-card low, and I'll just check-and-call. If he catches a
>> 9, J, or K, but I catch higher, I'll bet out if I paired or caught an ace,
>> and check-raise otherwise.
>>
>> --
>> Randy Hudson
>
>
> I don't like this line at all. I'd want to fold him now, not give him the
> chance to get lucky on me. It's almost for sure he's got nothing and, if
> that's so, should give up to a re-raise.

What "nothing" could he hold that would fold to your re-raise? This isn't
pot limit; there's a ton of money in there already, and he only needs about
a 1 in 4 of getting at least half the pot to justify a call, especially
since he knows you don't have a made low.

--
Randy Hudson

Date: 09 Dec 2006 23:22:21
From: Howard Beale
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

On Dec 9 2006 5:59 PM, Randy Hudson wrote:

> In article <467g44xiqr.ln2@recgroups.com>,
> Howard Beale <a1695@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 4 2006 8:31 PM, Randy Hudson wrote:
>
> >> I don't reraise here, I flat call and see the sixth street card. 50-50
> >> he'll be betting first on that street, and will feel compelled to bet out,
> >> and I can raise him then if I want (if it's a heart, or he pairs his
board,
> >> I will not want to raise). If he catches low, he's probably got either a
> >> low pair or a four-card low, and I'll just check-and-call. If he catches
a
> >> 9, J, or K, but I catch higher, I'll bet out if I paired or caught an ace,
> >> and check-raise otherwise.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Randy Hudson
> >
> >
> > I don't like this line at all. I'd want to fold him now, not give him the
> > chance to get lucky on me. It's almost for sure he's got nothing and, if
> > that's so, should give up to a re-raise.
>
> What "nothing" could he hold that would fold to your re-raise? This isn't
> pot limit; there's a ton of money in there already, and he only needs about
> a 1 in 4 of getting at least half the pot to justify a call, especially
> since he knows you don't have a made low.
>
> --
> Randy Hudson

The game is only 4 handed. The 5 raises and the 4 just calls. I'd expect
that he'd re-raise w/ a high pair in the hole. Both catch the same rank
cards on 4th and 5th. Did either of those likely pair a hole card of his?
When the inital raiser catches bad on 4th this is certainly the time for
the other player to raise if he had anything decent. It seems more likely
that by simply calling the initial raise he had a decent low start
himself. On 5th, when the initial raisers hand looks like junk is a good
time to make a 'move' on the pot. Maybe he's got 4's. That's nothing
enough for me to re-raise. What is the check-raiser going to do now with
2 dead cards on top and the 5 showing strength? If he slow played KK this
way then fine, he's going to beat me but that raise of his just smells bad
to me and I'm going to re-raise and expect to win right there. I
certainly wouldn't expect him to try for 2 low runners in this spot and if
he does I hope that he shows up when I play in the 20 game when I go to
Hollywood Park.

HB

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Date: 04 Dec 2006 08:16:14
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

NCL wrote:
> Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.
>
> Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.
>
> You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.
>
> Bring in calls.
>
> 4th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTd
>
> (xx)4hTs
>
> You bet he calls.
>
>
> 5th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTdQd
>
> (xx)4hTsQh
>
> You bet, he check-raises.
>
>
> What is your general read of the situation and how do you proceed?

It's 'ODDS on', you have the best hand and he's making a move on you,
thinking you raised with three small. If it was me, I reraise and bet
through the river, unless he pairs his card on 6th if he calls.

This is a normal tactic, and why I tell people to raise the smaller of
tthe small cards all the time to establish you have that small pair.
See my posts in Google archives under GCA Stud 8.

Russ Georgiev

www.pokermafia.com

Date: 04 Dec 2006 10:00:12
From: NCL
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

<RussGeorgiev@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1165248974.837470.327470@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>
> NCL wrote:
>> Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.
>>
>> Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.
>>
>> You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.
>>
>> Bring in calls.
>>
>> 4th street:
>>
>> (As5s)5cTd
>>
>> (xx)4hTs
>>
>> You bet he calls.
>>
>>
>> 5th street:
>>
>> (As5s)5cTdQd
>>
>> (xx)4hTsQh
>>
>> You bet, he check-raises.
>>
>>
>> What is your general read of the situation and how do you proceed?
>
>
> It's 'ODDS on', you have the best hand and he's making a move on you,
> thinking you raised with three small. If it was me, I reraise and bet
> through the river, unless he pairs his card on 6th if he calls.
>

This is what I was thinking. I rarely play stud 8 so wanted to if I was
misreading this spot. As you say it is very hard for him to have a legit
hand here.

> This is a normal tactic, and why I tell people to raise the smaller of
> tthe small cards all the time to establish you have that small pair.

You mean the bigger of the small cards right? Just making sure I follow you.

Date: 04 Dec 2006 08:02:44
From: Howard Beale
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

Date: 04 Dec 2006 04:10:40
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

On Dec 4 2006 10:41 AM, NCL wrote:
> Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.
>
> Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.
>
> You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.

going for the steal ? what cards are dead ?

> Bring in calls.
>
> 4th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTd
>
> (xx)4hTs
>
> You bet he calls.

would he call here with nothing ?

> 5th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTdQd
>
> (xx)4hTsQh
>
> You bet, he check-raises.

again, would he do that with nothing ?
you have nothing, let it go ?

-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links

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Date: 04 Dec 2006 04:58:19
From: NCL
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

"xyious" <a52dfe8@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:0rfd44xpjm.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 4 2006 10:41 AM, NCL wrote:
>> Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.
>>
>> Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.
>>
>> You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.
>
> going for the steal ? what cards are dead ?
>

It's all given above.

>> Bring in calls.
>>
>> 4th street:
>>
>> (As5s)5cTd
>>
>> (xx)4hTs
>>
>> You bet he calls.
>
> would he call here with nothing ?
>

Given that his board is almost identical to mine and my most likely starting
hand was 3 low cards, he should call here a lot.

>> 5th street:
>>
>> (As5s)5cTdQd
>>
>> (xx)4hTsQh
>>
>> You bet, he check-raises.
>
> again, would he do that with nothing ?

Who knows, but I doubt it. However he might do it with a 4 flush.

> you have nothing, let it go ?
>
>

I have nothing? I have a pair, which could very possible be the best hand.

Date: 04 Dec 2006 17:35:47
From: Omaholic
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

I agree with the others in the thread that reraising is the best play.
You probably have the best hand, but it's vulnerable and you would like to
fold the opponent now, if possible. If you are actually behind, you have
many live outs.

The only time I would proceed with caution is against a player who you
know is not tricky, in which case you should fear trips. However, at the
200-400 level most opponents will play with deception.

On Dec 4 2006 1:41 AM, NCL wrote:

> Game is 4 handed 200-400 Stud-8 with $50 ante and $50 bring-in.
>
> Bring in has a 4h. First to act folds a Kd.
>
> You have (As5s)5c and raise into a 7c and the bring-in.
>
> Bring in calls.
>
> 4th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTd
>
> (xx)4hTs
>
> You bet he calls.
>
>
> 5th street:
>
> (As5s)5cTdQd
>
> (xx)4hTsQh
>
> You bet, he check-raises.
>
>
> What is your general read of the situation and how do you proceed?

---
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 13:19:32
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:
> On Dec 4 2006 11:48 AM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
>
> > The raised and reraised on 3rd. How can you possibly put him on any of
> > the above hands?
>
> The pot was only completed on 3rd, by the small pair. Other two folded,
> bring in called.
>
>
> > He's either bluffing (98.44% possibility:), possibly rolled up, or has
> > AA or KK in the hole.
>
> Bring in could have (Ah Jh) 4h here. Or do you assume that raises the
> complete? Or open completes?

Ur a F*ing idiot
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 20:40:16
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

Here is a hand similar to the one you played. Here is how I played it
for a student.

11 From: Shrax4 - view profile
Date: Sun, Dec 3 2006 10:46 am
Email: "Shrax4" <a...@webnntp.invalid >
Groups: rec.gambling.poker
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 23:30:41
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
> Here is a hand similar to the one you played. Here is how I played it
> for a student.

What do you mean by "played it for a student" ?

Date: 10 Dec 2006 00:29:48
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

On Dec 10 2006 12:30 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
> > Here is a hand similar to the one you played. Here is how I played it
> > for a student.
>
> What do you mean by "played it for a student" ?

He means he played it on another person's account.

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 10 Dec 2006 07:29:56
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Stud 8 question.

He means he was coaching the account holder on how to play the hand, so
the account holder could understand.

On Dec 10 2006 3:29 AM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Dec 10 2006 12:30 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
>
> > RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
> > > Here is a hand similar to the one you played. Here is how I played it
> > > for a student.
> >
> > What do you mean by "played it for a student" ?
>
> He means he played it on another person's account.
>
> Fell
> --
> Website: www.fellknight.com
> Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute

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