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Main
Date: 17 Dec
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Still sore...
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again, so near yet so far...21st!!!
The 88 call from the button, was I think, a bit loose, but I raised from the
button, and I was hoping the BB was pushing with 2 overs, plus I had him
cover...just my luck to run into KK.
But the instacall with 55 to my AK jam from the SB was, I think, just fucking
horrible....Yes, he had me covered, and I really dont mind a call....but it was
the speed of the call that had me dazzled....Jack, you were watching, what do
you think about that play?
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 02:05:52
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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On Sun, 17 Dec 06 6:45:46 GMT, Nick Wool <43079532@recpoker.com > wrote:
>again, so near yet so far...21st!!!
>The 88 call from the button, was I think, a bit loose, but I raised from the
>button, and I was hoping the BB was pushing with 2 overs, plus I had him
>cover...just my luck to run into KK.
>But the instacall with 55 to my AK jam from the SB was, I think, just fucking
>horrible....Yes, he had me covered, and I really dont mind a call....but it was
>the speed of the call that had me dazzled....Jack, you were watching, what do
>you think about that play?
Speaking of this tournament in general, do you recommend it? In the brief
time I was watching it, it seemed pretty donkified for the last three tables.
Is most of the field that bad?
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Date: 17 Dec
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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On Dec 17 2006 7:05 AM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 06 6:45:46 GMT, Nick Wool <43079532@recpoker.com> wrote:
>
> >again, so near yet so far...21st!!!
>
> >The 88 call from the button, was I think, a bit loose, but I raised from the
> >button, and I was hoping the BB was pushing with 2 overs, plus I had him
> >cover...just my luck to run into KK.
>
> >But the instacall with 55 to my AK jam from the SB was, I think, just fucking
> >horrible....Yes, he had me covered, and I really dont mind a call....but it
> >was
> >the speed of the call that had me dazzled....Jack, you were watching, what do
> >you think about that play?
>
> Speaking of this tournament in general, do you recommend it? In the brief
> time I was watching it, it seemed pretty donkified for the last three tables.
> Is most of the field that bad?
Some of ther play can be good, but not that many....The problem about
'donkified' play is that in the latter stages, it gets harder to steal, because
of the loose calls...Great if you are getting hands, and not so good if you are
treading water...And a lot of time you are into race situations, when against
'better' players you can hope to push them of a hand.
Talking of which, I think my call with 88 is a bit donkified as well....:)
Alan, Jack...what would you have done with 88 in my situation, when its been
folded to you, you raised from the button, and the BB, whom you have covered
2:1, pushes? For me, 22-55 would be a marginal fold, 66-99, marginal call, TT+,
AK/AQ, instacall...AJ/KQ, marginal fold or call depending on how I see
him...thoughts?
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 03:30:32
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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On Sun, 17 Dec 06 7:18:51 GMT, Nick Wool <43079532@recpoker.com > wrote:
>> Speaking of this tournament in general, do you recommend it? In the brief
>> time I was watching it, it seemed pretty donkified for the last three tables.
>> Is most of the field that bad?
>Some of ther play can be good, but not that many....The problem about
>'donkified' play is that in the latter stages, it gets harder to steal, because
>of the loose calls...Great if you are getting hands, and not so good if you are
>treading water...And a lot of time you are into race situations, when against
>'better' players you can hope to push them of a hand.
>Talking of which, I think my call with 88 is a bit donkified as well....:)
88 is a tricky hand in this situation because half the pairs are above it and
half the pairs are below it, and overcards are the (more common) bulk of
what jams into you. Usually big aces, but conceivably any pair would
do that. But I think the bigger pairs are more likely to do it, while the
smaller pairs are more likely to give it a miss, so the actual probabilities
are weighted much differently than just the random distribution.
>Alan, Jack...what would you have done with 88 in my situation, when its been
>folded to you, you raised from the button, and the BB, whom you have covered
>2:1, pushes? For me, 22-55 would be a marginal fold, 66-99, marginal call, TT+,
>AK/AQ, instacall...AJ/KQ, marginal fold or call depending on how I see
>him...thoughts?
Seems like a reasonable range, and of course, you were actually there playing.
The problem with a tournament like this is the payout structure. You're not
going to win without flipping a few coins. But at the same time, you have to
avoid situations where you're underpair/overpair like the plague. Here, you
could fold leaving yourself with less than average chips and maybe squeak onto
the final table. But if you double up twice, you're looking at a run on first.
Alan is probably better to ask since he actually has final table experience on
a regular basis. The math is pretty straightforward once you decide on
ranges, but I'm pretty shaky on how to do that while in the heat of battle.
Personally, I'd probably have called with that 88, instacalled with TT+.
I'd really think about AQ because of the strong possibility of AK. And
I don't like KQ or AJ because KQ is the mother of all dominated hands
and AJ is dominated by the very common AK/AQ. But like you point
out, someone who is particularly crazy with the reraises may be worth
going after with that marginal crap.
88 is a solid value hand to raise with in that situation, but starts looking
pretty small when someone jams back at you, even when you have them
covered. Considering that you'd raise in the first place with a lot of hands,
though, and having just won a hand, might be getting uppity, the fact that
he reraised didn't necessarily mean a higher pair. But I think there was
enough chance of it to warrant a moment of contemplation before calling.
And against a tight opponent, I'd hope I'd muck it.
Maybe you should post the HH for the world at large. I'd like to know
what Fell et al would have done with that.
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 01:00:27
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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On Dec 17 2006 1:30 AM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
> Maybe you should post the HH for the world at large. I'd like to know
> what Fell et al would have done with that.
I'd like to see it, but in general, at this stage of a tourney, the stacks
are too small to fold to a normal, aggressive player. Against a rock,
sure, but against most players, assuming a range of 66+ and AQ+ you are
still very near a coinflip:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
832,179,744 games 0.843 secs 987,164,583 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 42.6318 % 41.80% 00.83% { 88 }
Hand 2: 57.3682 % 56.54% 00.83% { 66+, AQs+, AQo+ }
You really only need 3:2 pot odds to be getting a good price on your
money, and you will very often be getting at least 3:2.
The tough part is trying not to kick yourself when you do run into an
overpair. Shit happens. Had a friend kick himself for not folding
getting 3:1 with 77 against what turned out to be QQ (similar situation).
The call was a no-brainer.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 22:59:29
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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On Dec 16 2006 10:45 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> again, so near yet so far...21st!!!
>
> The 88 call from the button, was I think, a bit loose, but I raised from the
> button, and I was hoping the BB was pushing with 2 overs, plus I had him
> cover...just my luck to run into KK.
>
> But the instacall with 55 to my AK jam from the SB was, I think, just fucking
> horrible....Yes, he had me covered, and I really dont mind a call....but it
was
> the speed of the call that had me dazzled....Jack, you were watching, what do
> you think about that play?
I was watching too, and I think your play was good, and the call with 55
was atrocious. Calling off a big stack with a small pair, IMO, is the
worst play in NLHE.
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
--------
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 00:52:39
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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On Dec 16 2006 11:45 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> again, so near yet so far...21st!!!
>
> The 88 call from the button, was I think, a bit loose, but I raised from the
> button, and I was hoping the BB was pushing with 2 overs, plus I had him
> cover...just my luck to run into KK.
>
> But the instacall with 55 to my AK jam from the SB was, I think, just fucking
> horrible....Yes, he had me covered, and I really dont mind a call....but it
was
> the speed of the call that had me dazzled....Jack, you were watching, what do
> you think about that play?
Please post the BAHHs.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 17 Dec
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: Still sore...
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Anyway, enough of my whines and rants...back to business...LL for tomorrow's
(today!) Stars million, anyone?
On Dec 17 2006 6:45 AM, Nick Wool wrote:
>
> again, so near yet so far...21st!!!
>
> The 88 call from the button, was I think, a bit loose, but I raised from the
> button, and I was hoping the BB was pushing with 2 overs, plus I had him
> cover...just my luck to run into KK.
>
> But the instacall with 55 to my AK jam from the SB was, I think, just fucking
> horrible....Yes, he had me covered, and I really dont mind a call....but it
> was
> the speed of the call that had me dazzled....Jack, you were watching, what do
> you think about that play?
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