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Main
Date: 12 Dec 14:38:11
From: Shush
Subject: Ruling Needed
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I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table. Two
players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining players
are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
Player 1 has A5o
Player 2 has QQ
Player 3 has KK
The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct deck is
still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10 cards out
to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the other
hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards off
the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for the
board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board. Player 2
protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we do
anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a chance I
can still catch an A? Then run them'.
The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
Thanks!
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:32:07
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
On Dec 12 2006 7:38 AM, Shush wrote:
> I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
>
> Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table. Two
> players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining players
> are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).
>
> Player 1 has A5o
> Player 2 has QQ
> Player 3 has KK
>
> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
deck is
> still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10 cards
out
> to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the other
> hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
off
> the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for the
> board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
Player 2
> protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we do
> anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
chance I
> can still catch an A? Then run them'.
>
>
> The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
>
> Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
>
>
> Thanks!
Ruling was correct. Tell whoever is dealing that they should put a chip
on top of the deck to protect it when they put it down to look at their
cards.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 12:41:23
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
"FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:752354xrn4.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 12 2006 7:38 AM, Shush wrote:
>
>> I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
>>
>> Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table.
>> Two
>> players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
>> players
>> are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).
>>
>> Player 1 has A5o
>> Player 2 has QQ
>> Player 3 has KK
>>
>> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
> deck is
>> still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10
>> cards
> out
>> to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
>> other
>> hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
> off
>> the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for
>> the
>> board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
> Player 2
>> protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we
>> do
>> anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
> chance I
>> can still catch an A? Then run them'.
>>
>>
>> The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
>>
>> Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> Ruling was correct. Tell whoever is dealing that they should put a chip
> on top of the deck to protect it when they put it down to look at their
> cards.
The 2nd deck shouldn't have been accessible to the dealer,
if SB always keeps the next deck on their left they won't
have any problems. What was it doing next to the dealer?
Waiting to be cut?
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
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| | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 12:57:56
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
On Dec 12 2006 12:41 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> "FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:752354xrn4.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Dec 12 2006 7:38 AM, Shush wrote:
> >
> >> I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
> >>
> >> Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table.
> >> Two
> >> players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
> >> players
> >> are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).
> >>
> >> Player 1 has A5o
> >> Player 2 has QQ
> >> Player 3 has KK
> >>
> >> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
> > deck is
> >> still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10
> >> cards
> > out
> >> to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
> >> other
> >> hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
> > off
> >> the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for
> >> the
> >> board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
> > Player 2
> >> protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we
> >> do
> >> anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
> > chance I
> >> can still catch an A? Then run them'.
> >>
> >>
> >> The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
> >>
> >> Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >
> > Ruling was correct. Tell whoever is dealing that they should put a chip
> > on top of the deck to protect it when they put it down to look at their
> > cards.
>
> The 2nd deck shouldn't have been accessible to the dealer,
> if SB always keeps the next deck on their left they won't
> have any problems. What was it doing next to the dealer?
> Waiting to be cut?
>
> Mark
> --
> www.myspace.com/diputsur
Did you actually read any of the answers to your question which were
posted b4 u posted? Your response offers no solution to the immediate
problem and does not answer the question.
I think you are a little off today Mark. I would be careful before
playing too high today. lol
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
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| | | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 17:12:34
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
"pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com > wrote in message
news:knh354xge5.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 12 2006 12:41 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
>
>> "FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:752354xrn4.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> > On Dec 12 2006 7:38 AM, Shush wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
>> >>
>> >> Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table.
>> >> Two
>> >> players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
>> >> players
>> >> are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).
>> >>
>> >> Player 1 has A5o
>> >> Player 2 has QQ
>> >> Player 3 has KK
>> >>
>> >> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
>> > deck is
>> >> still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10
>> >> cards
>> > out
>> >> to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
>> >> other
>> >> hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run
>> >> cards
>> > off
>> >> the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used
>> >> for
>> >> the
>> >> board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
>> > Player 2
>> >> protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if
>> >> we
>> >> do
>> >> anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
>> > chance I
>> >> can still catch an A? Then run them'.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to
>> >> win.
>> >>
>> >> Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >
>> > Ruling was correct. Tell whoever is dealing that they should put a chip
>> > on top of the deck to protect it when they put it down to look at their
>> > cards.
>>
>> The 2nd deck shouldn't have been accessible to the dealer,
>> if SB always keeps the next deck on their left they won't
>> have any problems. What was it doing next to the dealer?
>> Waiting to be cut?
>>
>> Mark
>> --
>> www.myspace.com/diputsur
>
> Did you actually read any of the answers to your question which were
> posted b4 u posted? Your response offers no solution to the immediate
> problem and does not answer the question.
> I think you are a little off today Mark. I would be careful before
> playing too high today. lol
Read em, just didn't have anything to add there...
when I saw Fell's suggestion about putting a chip
on the deck I wondered why he wouldn't just recommend
keeping the 2nd deck away from the dealer, as it should
be anyway. That's why I piped in ;-) Thanks for keeping
me on my toes though chimpie.
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 16:10:35
From: CHarrison100
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
> I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
>
> Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table. Two
> players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining players
> are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
>
> Player 1 has A5o
> Player 2 has QQ
> Player 3 has KK
>
> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct deck
> is
> still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10 cards
> out
> to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the other
> hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards off
> the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for the
> board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board. Player
> 2
> protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we do
> anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a chance
> I
> can still catch an A? Then run them'.
>
>
> The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
>
> Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
>
>
> Thanks!
Learned this the hard way. If you are going to use 2 decks make sure they are
different colors. We stopped using the second deck due to this happening in a
home game I play in and the cards were Blue and Red. We didn't notice until
after a few hands and someone had a suited pocket pair.
I would have ruled 2 ways depending on when the all in happened
Preflop: Kill the board and redeal from the right deck.
Any other betting round: Ruled the hand dead and all money back to the bettors
Anyone see a flaw in my logic?
_______________________________________________________________
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| | |
Date: 12 Dec 16:16:24
From: Tanya AKA MissT74
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
On Dec 12 2006 9:10 AM, CHarrison100 wrote:
>
>
>
> On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
>
> > I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
> >
> > Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table. Two
> > players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
> > players
> > are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
> >
> > Player 1 has A5o
> > Player 2 has QQ
> > Player 3 has KK
> >
> > The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
> > deck
> > is
> > still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10 cards
> > out
> > to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
> > other
> > hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
> > off
> > the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for
> > the
> > board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
> > Player
> > 2
> > protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we do
> > anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
> > chance
> > I
> > can still catch an A? Then run them'.
> >
> >
> > The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
> >
> > Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> Learned this the hard way. If you are going to use 2 decks make sure they are
> different colors. We stopped using the second deck due to this happening in a
> home game I play in and the cards were Blue and Red. We didn't notice until
> after a few hands and someone had a suited pocket pair.
>
> I would have ruled 2 ways depending on when the all in happened
>
> Preflop: Kill the board and redeal from the right deck.
>
> Any other betting round: Ruled the hand dead and all money back to the bettors
>
> Anyone see a flaw in my logic?
Nope, I'm in agreement. Kill the board and reproduce from the correct deck. Tell
the QQ to quit his whining, he still has a chance of hitting a Q again from the
correct deck. : )
T
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| | | |
Date: 12 Dec 16:25:28
From: Shush
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
On Dec 12 2006 11:16 AM, Tanya AKA MissT74 wrote:
>
>
>
> On Dec 12 2006 9:10 AM, CHarrison100 wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
> >
> > > I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
> > >
> > > Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table.
> > > Two
> > > players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
> > > players
> > > are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
> > >
> > > Player 1 has A5o
> > > Player 2 has QQ
> > > Player 3 has KK
> > >
> > > The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
> > > deck
> > > is
> > > still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10
> > > cards
> > > out
> > > to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
> > > other
> > > hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
> > > off
> > > the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for
> > > the
> > > board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
> > > Player
> > > 2
> > > protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we
> > > do
> > > anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
> > > chance
> > > I
> > > can still catch an A? Then run them'.
> > >
> > >
> > > The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
> > >
> > >
> > > Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > Learned this the hard way. If you are going to use 2 decks make sure they
> > are
> > different colors. We stopped using the second deck due to this happening in
> > a
> > home game I play in and the cards were Blue and Red. We didn't notice until
> > after a few hands and someone had a suited pocket pair.
> >
> > I would have ruled 2 ways depending on when the all in happened
> >
> > Preflop: Kill the board and redeal from the right deck.
> >
> > Any other betting round: Ruled the hand dead and all money back to the
> > bettors
> >
> > Anyone see a flaw in my logic?
>
> Nope, I'm in agreement. Kill the board and reproduce from the correct deck.
> Tell
> the QQ to quit his whining, he still has a chance of hitting a Q again from
> the
> correct deck. : )
>
> T
>
>
>
Decks are different colors. Copag red and Copag green. The dealer just picked up
the wrong deck.
BTW, the player w/ QQ stormed out when he was informed that he went in as a dog
and he needed to get over it.
_______________________________________________________________
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| | | | |
Date: 12 Dec 16:49:17
From: CHarrison100
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
On Dec 12 2006 11:25 AM, Shush wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 12 2006 11:16 AM, Tanya AKA MissT74 wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 12 2006 9:10 AM, CHarrison100 wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
> > > >
> > > > Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table.
> > > > Two
> > > > players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
> > > > players
> > > > are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
> > > >
> > > > Player 1 has A5o
> > > > Player 2 has QQ
> > > > Player 3 has KK
> > > >
> > > > The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
> > > > deck
> > > > is
> > > > still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10
> > > > cards
> > > > out
> > > > to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
> > > > other
> > > > hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run
> > > > cards
> > > > off
> > > > the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used
> > > > for
> > > > the
> > > > board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
> > > > Player
> > > > 2
> > > > protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if
> > > > we
> > > > do
> > > > anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
> > > > chance
> > > > I
> > > > can still catch an A? Then run them'.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to
> > > > win.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Learned this the hard way. If you are going to use 2 decks make sure they
> > > are
> > > different colors. We stopped using the second deck due to this happening
> > > in
> > > a
> > > home game I play in and the cards were Blue and Red. We didn't notice
> > > until
> > > after a few hands and someone had a suited pocket pair.
> > >
> > > I would have ruled 2 ways depending on when the all in happened
> > >
> > > Preflop: Kill the board and redeal from the right deck.
> > >
> > > Any other betting round: Ruled the hand dead and all money back to the
> > > bettors
> > >
> > > Anyone see a flaw in my logic?
> >
> > Nope, I'm in agreement. Kill the board and reproduce from the correct deck.
> > Tell
> > the QQ to quit his whining, he still has a chance of hitting a Q again from
> > the
> > correct deck. : )
> >
> > T
> >
> >
> >
> Decks are different colors. Copag red and Copag green. The dealer just picked
> up
> the wrong deck.
>
> BTW, the player w/ QQ stormed out when he was informed that he went in as a
> dog
> and he needed to get over it.
>
I guess he deals excitment. It happens, human factor can change a lot of
variables.
It's too bad he couldn't distance himself from the hand and see the ruling for
what it was, Fair.
Maybe he just needs some time to cool off. I would forget about it and not bring
it up next time you see him.
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| |
Date: 12 Dec 14:46:56
From: AP200
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
Correct ruling, but I have no idea why you'd have another deck close.
On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
> I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
>
> Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table. Two
> players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining players
> are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
>
> Player 1 has A5o
> Player 2 has QQ
> Player 3 has KK
>
> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct deck
> is
> still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10 cards
> out
> to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the other
> hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards off
> the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for the
> board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board. Player
> 2
> protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we do
> anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a chance
> I
> can still catch an A? Then run them'.
>
>
> The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
>
> Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
>
>
> Thanks!
_______________________________________________________________
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| | |
Date: 12 Dec 16:10:12
From: Shush
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
We run with two decks to keep the game going. usually the button has to shuffle
as we designate one person to be perma-dealer. So the shuffle follows the button
and this case, the shuffler was prepared and put the deck down in front of the
dealer. The dealer was so excited about his KK, he didn't pay attention to the
deck he chose. =(
Thanks for the feedback.
On Dec 12 2006 9:46 AM, AP200 wrote:
> Correct ruling, but I have no idea why you'd have another deck close.
>
> On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
>
> > I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
> >
> > Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table. Two
> > players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
> > players
> > are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).\
> >
> > Player 1 has A5o
> > Player 2 has QQ
> > Player 3 has KK
> >
> > The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
> > deck
> > is
> > still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10 cards
> > out
> > to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
> > other
> > hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
> > off
> > the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for
> > the
> > board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
> > Player
> > 2
> > protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we do
> > anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
> > chance
> > I
> > can still catch an A? Then run them'.
> >
> >
> > The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
> >
> > Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
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|
| | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 06:55:07
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
|
in some deal-ur-own games, the person to the right of the dealer will
shuffle a second deck to get it ready?
On Dec 12 2006 9:46 AM, AP200 wrote:
> Correct ruling, but I have no idea why you'd have another deck close.
>
> On Dec 12 2006 9:38 AM, Shush wrote:
>
> > I am going to do my best to draw this picture.
> >
> > Home game, no professional dealers. Cards are dealt to a 5 handed table.
Two
> > players end up folding (positions do not matter). The three remaining
players
> > are all-in (except on player, who has them covered).
> >
> > Player 1 has A5o
> > Player 2 has QQ
> > Player 3 has KK
> >
> > The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck. The correct
deck
> > is
> > still on the table and has not been touched (except for dealing the 10
cards
> > out
> > to the players). The turn with the wrong deck shows a Q. Neither of the
other
> > hands improve. We recognize the error, reconstruct the pots and run cards
off
> > the correct deck. It was my ruling that since the wrong deck was used for
the
> > board, and the correct deck was undisturbed, that we re-run the board.
Player
> > 2
> > protests and claims (incorrectly) that he won 'fair and square' and if we
do
> > anything, we have to kill the entire hand. Player 1 says 'so there is a
chance
> > I
> > can still catch an A? Then run them'.
> >
> >
> > The re-run of the board improves nobody's hand and the KK holds up to win.
> >
> > Was this the correct ruling? If not, what would be the correct ruling?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
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Date: 13 Dec 2006 00:01:10
From: Randy Hudson
Subject: Re: Ruling Needed
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In article <1165934291$920238@recpoker.com >,
Shush <43083147@recpoker.com > wrote:
[ Two players are all-in and no more betting is possible. ]
> The flop, turn and river are dealt, but from the wrong deck.
I would rule that the "cards" put down for the flop, turn, and river are no
more valid than if the dealer had drawn them with a marker. The correct
deck is available and undisturbed, deal it.
--
Randy Hudson
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