| |
Main
Date: 10 Dec
From: Lew Green
Subject: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
Showdown. 2 Players.
Player 1 missed draw bluffs at Pot.
Player 2 calls.
Player 1 goes, "You got me..." but doesn't show.
Player 2 made a thin call, party motivated by wanting to see Player 1's hand.
Wanting to gain information. Can he insist Player 1 show his cards?
I assume, Player 2 can refuse to show his cards until the player1 (the betor)
acts.
If Player 1 mucks. Does player 2 have to show? Can he collect the pot without
showing from a call? Does he have to announce he's playing the board before he
mucks to be sure and claim the pot?
Thanks, L
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
|
|
| |
Date: 10 Dec
From: Tanya AKA MissT74
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
On Dec 9 2006 9:48 PM, Lew Green wrote:
> Showdown. 2 Players.
> Player 1 missed draw bluffs at Pot.
> Player 2 calls.
>
> Player 1 goes, "You got me..." but doesn't show.
>
> Player 2 made a thin call, party motivated by wanting to see Player 1's hand.
> Wanting to gain information. Can he insist Player 1 show his cards?
Yes, at least he can say "I called you, you show first" if Player 1 then mucks
his cards, without showing, then Player #2 wins by default and does not need to
show his cards either. If Player 1 does show, then Player #2 has to show, or on
the flip side, he can also muck without showing #1, if he lost.
There is a rule though that a player can ask to see both hands, if they were
involved in the hand, even if the cards are mucked. It's usually used to
determine if players are colluding and is considered in poor taste if it's used
to "gain information" on a certain player.
T
>
> I assume, Player 2 can refuse to show his cards until the player1 (the betor)
> acts.
>
> If Player 1 mucks. Does player 2 have to show? Can he collect the pot without
> showing from a call? Does he have to announce he's playing the board before he
> mucks to be sure and claim the pot?
>
> Thanks, L
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | |
Date: 10 Dec 2006 01:46:32
From: VBDave
Subject: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
The "both hands" rule started to prevent colusion. More and more
casinoes are asking why you want to see the hand before they'll show
it. It's not there to get information.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
VBDave's Profile: http://www.rgpaccess.com/member.php?userid=142
View this thread: http://www.rgpaccess.com/showthread.php?t=165538
-----------------------POSTED AT RGP ACCESS-----------------------------
++++ RGPchat, vBookie and Poker News at http://www.rgpaccess.com ++++
|
| | |
Date: 10 Dec 2006 16:58:45
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
"Tanya AKA MissT74" <43084303@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1165729456$919036@recpoker.com...
>
>
>
> On Dec 9 2006 9:48 PM, Lew Green wrote:
>
>> Showdown. 2 Players.
>> Player 1 missed draw bluffs at Pot.
>> Player 2 calls.
>>
>> Player 1 goes, "You got me..." but doesn't show.
>>
>> Player 2 made a thin call, party motivated by wanting to see Player 1's
>> hand.
>> Wanting to gain information. Can he insist Player 1 show his cards?
>
> Yes, at least he can say "I called you, you show first" if Player 1 then
> mucks
> his cards, without showing, then Player #2 wins by default and does not
> need to
> show his cards either. If Player 1 does show, then Player #2 has to show,
> or on
> the flip side, he can also muck without showing #1, if he lost.
>
> There is a rule though that a player can ask to see both hands, if they
> were
> involved in the hand, even if the cards are mucked. It's usually used to
> determine if players are colluding and is considered in poor taste if it's
> used
> to "gain information" on a certain player.
>
I have no idea what the rules are, but when Player 2 calls, doesn't he have
an absolute right to see Player 1's cards, irrespective of any concession of
the pot?
Palooka
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Dec 2006 11:22:28
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
On Dec 10 2006 5:58 PM, Palooka wrote:
> I have no idea what the rules are, but when Player 2 calls, doesn't he have
> an absolute right to see Player 1's cards, irrespective of any concession of
> the pot?
yes he can ask to see the hand. but if it's shown it's live, and he can
actually win the hand with a hand that he had already mucked. plus it's
implicit accusation of cheating and therefore very rude.
>
> Palooka
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
-------
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| |
Date: 09 Dec 2006 21:40:25
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
On Dec 10 2006 5:48 AM, Lew Green wrote:
> Showdown. 2 Players.
> Player 1 missed draw bluffs at Pot.
> Player 2 calls.
>
> Player 1 goes, "You got me..." but doesn't show.
>
> Player 2 made a thin call, party motivated by wanting to see Player 1's hand.
> Wanting to gain information. Can he insist Player 1 show his cards?
yes but it's kinda rude. why do his cards matter tho if he doesn't think
he could beat ANY hand his opponent called with.
>
> I assume, Player 2 can refuse to show his cards until the player1 (the betor)
> acts.
>
> If Player 1 mucks. Does player 2 have to show? Can he collect the pot without
> showing from a call? Does he have to announce he's playing the board before
he
> mucks to be sure and claim the pot?
>
> Thanks, L
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
-----
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 10 Dec
From: Lew Green
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
> yes but it's kinda rude. why do his cards matter tho if he doesn't think
> he could beat ANY hand his opponent called with.
why do his cards matter? uhhhh... let me count the ways?
1. What kind of starting hands does he play?
2. What kind does he play from early position?
3. Does he ever open the pot from middle position with small pairs or small
connectors?
4. Does he play anything suited?
5. Does he play weak aces?
6. Does he play anything on the button in an unopened pot?
7. Does he like to bet out his flush draws?
8. Does he like to check raise them?
9. Does he overplay AJ or KJ or KQ?
10 Why did he make that bet on the turn?
11. Why did he call my raise on the flop?
12.Was he on a draw or is he aggressive (or crazy) enough to have bluffed 3
times in a row?
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Dec 2006 11:20:43
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
On Dec 10 2006 7:05 AM, Lew Green wrote:
>
> > yes but it's kinda rude. why do his cards matter tho if he doesn't think
> > he could beat ANY hand his opponent called with.
>
> why do his cards matter? uhhhh... let me count the ways?
any or all of the above could be of marginal use, depending on how the
hand played out.
> 1. What kind of starting hands does he play?
how many hands does he play ?
> 2. What kind does he play from early position?
in early position
> 3. Does he ever open the pot from middle position with small pairs or small
> connectors?
now here's one that you'll find out sooner or later anyway, but for this
one seeing his hand might (in like .... 5% of the cases) be of importance.
> 4. Does he play anything suited?
again, how many hands does he play ?
> 5. Does he play weak aces?
and again how many hands does he play ?
> 6. Does he play anything on the button in an unopened pot?
now seriously, you need to see his hands to figure out if he's playing
100% of the button in that sitiation ??? wow !
> 7. Does he like to bet out his flush draws?
what if there weren't 2 suited on the flop in this hand ?????
> 8. Does he like to check raise them?
what if he didn't checkraise anywhere in this hand ?
> 9. Does he overplay AJ or KJ or KQ?
betting the river with unimproved KJ/KQ ? unlikely. if he's that loose
you'll figure it out anyway.
> 10 Why did he make that bet on the turn?
he bet the turn ????? news to me.
> 11. Why did he call my raise on the flop?
he did ? wow, with that trash ? amazing.
> 12.Was he on a draw or is he aggressive (or crazy) enough to have bluffed 3
> times in a row?
thought he called the raise ???
either way, most of the above are obvious without seeing his hand.
depending on flop/turn action it may be interesting to see it, but again
marginal if anything.
he bet the river, got called, and mucked before the other dude showed his
hand. so i'm excluding hands as weak as unimproved 22 or ace high, and
then you should already have your answers (cept the draw thing, but
depending on action/texture you could figure that one out too).
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| |
Date: 10 Dec
From: crazed_actor
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
On Dec 9 2006 10:48 PM, Lew Green wrote:
> If Player 1 mucks. Does player 2 have to show? Can he collect the pot without
> showing from a call? Does he have to announce he's playing the board before he
> mucks to be sure and claim the pot?
>
Once Player 1 mucks, he/she has surrendered, and the hand is over. Player 2
wins. Player 2 doesn't have to show, because it doesn't matter what he/she
has.
_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| |
Date: 10 Dec 2006 09:30:37
From: jarrett40
Subject: Re: Rules Question re: Mucking
|
Lew Green wrote:
> Showdown. 2 Players.
> Player 1 missed draw bluffs at Pot.
> Player 2 calls.
>
> Player 1 goes, "You got me..." but doesn't show.
>
> Player 2 made a thin call, party motivated by wanting to see Player 1's hand.
> Wanting to gain information. Can he insist Player 1 show his cards?
Yes, but in the games I play it would be considered bad form to do so.A
good rule of thumb is if they're pushing you the pot don't rub it in by
asking to see their cards. Besides, they might show something that
beats you [you said you made a thin call]..
>
> I assume, Player 2 can refuse to show his cards until the player1 (the betor)
> acts.
The bettor is supposed to show first.If he holds onto his cards, hold
onto yours [no matter what he says]. If he mucks, hold onto yours till
the dealer starts pushing you the pot.
>
> If Player 1 mucks. Does player 2 have to show?
No. The dealer will immediately push the pot to the one player left
with a hand.
Can he collect the pot without
> showing from a call?
Yes, but hold onto your cards until you're sure the other guy mucked.
Does he have to announce he's playing the board before he
> mucks to be sure and claim the pot?
No. If the other guy mucks, you're the only one left in the pot with a
hand and the dealer will push it to you.
This business of demanding to see other player's cards has gotten so
far out of hand in most casinos that [as other posters have said] they
don't enforce it that much anymore.What I mean to say is they enforce
it differently than in the past. They'll let you do it once but after
that you're going to need a better reason than " I just want to see how
he plays." Nowadays they usually call the floor which takes time and
the other players are going to be irritated because you're holding up
the game.
jarrett40
>
> Thanks, L
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> * New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
|
|
