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Date: 07 Dec 2006 15:31:48
From: GH
Subject: Overlay - definition?
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I see this term "overlay" bandied about in various contexts, but what
is/are the exact definition(s) as it/they relate to poker?
GH
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Date: 07 Dec 17:52:29
From: Teabagger
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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It's a clear push in my book, especially short handed. Close your eyes and push
them in. I could make a case to push with any 2 in this spot. Winning the blinds
here is significant, and buys you another round through the blinds. You have
enough chips here to do some damage to the big stack if he calls and loses, so
he won't call unless he has a good hand. The BB's calling range is probably
wider than the SBs, since he is more desperate. If the BB calls and wins, you
still have life. With any small raise you make, the big stack will call, and if
he raises on the flop, then what? If he puts you in pre-flop, what do you do?
Your stack is in bad shape here, and you need to get aggressive. If the roles
were reversed, and you were the big stack, what would you call with? If you were
the BB, what would you call with? Your M is about 7, and at a short handed
table, you can't afford to wait for a monster. Plus, with the size of your
stack, if someone calls and loses, they will be hurt badly.
Optimally, when your stack is less than 11x the big blind, any bet you make
should be all in, because you are pot committed anyway. Stealing the blinds is
optimal, but if someone calls with overcards, you are still a slight favorite to
double up.
You got unlucky.
On Dec 7 2006 10:31 AM, GH wrote:
> I see this term "overlay" bandied about in various contexts, but what
> is/are the exact definition(s) as it/they relate to poker?
>
> GH
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 07 Dec 16:50:35
From: Teabagger
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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Another example of this in no limit is calling an all-in bet pre-flop with AA.
For argument's sake, the pot is paying you about even money, but you are about
an 80% favorite to win the hand vs. whatever he is holding.
Wow. Why does it seem like I am getting the wrong end of this stick? It doesn't
seem like AA holds up for me more than 20% of the time?
On Dec 7 2006 10:31 AM, GH wrote:
> I see this term "overlay" bandied about in various contexts, but what
> is/are the exact definition(s) as it/they relate to poker?
>
> GH
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:01:38
From: Dave Oldridge
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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Teabagger <43078607@recpoker.com > wrote in
news:1165510235$917855@recpoker.com:
>
> Another example of this in no limit is calling an all-in bet pre-flop
> with AA. For argument's sake, the pot is paying you about even money,
> but you are about an 80% favorite to win the hand vs. whatever he is
> holding.
>
> Wow. Why does it seem like I am getting the wrong end of this stick?
> It doesn't seem like AA holds up for me more than 20% of the time?
AA will hold up 80% of the time over a random pair of cards. You don't get
called by a random pair of cards very often. Most people look and then
either call you or fold.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 14:53:01
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:01:38 GMT, Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca >
wrote:
>Teabagger <43078607@recpoker.com> wrote in
>news:1165510235$917855@recpoker.com:
>> Another example of this in no limit is calling an all-in bet pre-flop
>> with AA. For argument's sake, the pot is paying you about even money,
>> but you are about an 80% favorite to win the hand vs. whatever he is
>> holding.
>> Wow. Why does it seem like I am getting the wrong end of this stick?
>> It doesn't seem like AA holds up for me more than 20% of the time?
>AA will hold up 80% of the time over a random pair of cards. You don't get
>called by a random pair of cards very often. Most people look and then
>either call you or fold.
You're an 80% favorite over a lot of the stuff that calls you, since only very
good hands do call you (barring the occasional idiot). Unless someone is
jamming into you with suited connectors (in which case they have the
right hand for getting unlucky enough to run into aces), in which case you're
only about a 77/23 favorite.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
1,712,304 games 0.062 secs 27,617,806 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 23.0325 % 22.87% 00.16% { 7s6s }
Hand 2: 76.9675 % 76.81% 00.16% { AcAd }
The other kind of stuff that calls you is KK, QQ, and other big pairs.
You're an even bigger favorite over that stuff.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
1,712,304 games 0.005 secs 342,460,800 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 18.0539 % 17.82% 00.23% { KcKs }
Hand 2: 81.9461 % 81.71% 00.23% { AcAd }
---
Then there's AK. Such a beautiful thing to see until KK hits the flop.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
82,190,592 games 0.125 secs 657,524,736 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 91.8438 % 91.19% 00.65% { AA }
Hand 2: 08.1562 % 07.51% 00.65% { AKs, AKo }
--
In any case, you're at least an 80/20 favorite over specifically the kind of
hands that call you. You're a slightly smaller favorite against the best
ace-cracking hands (middle suited connectors), and an 85/15 favorite
against random junk.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
12,585,434,400 games 20.953 secs 600,650,713 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 85.2037 % 84.93% 00.27% { AA }
Hand 2: 14.7963 % 14.52% 00.27% { random }
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 21:04:22
From: Dave Oldridge
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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A Man Beaten by Jacks <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in
news:jsrgn2h6goureg1q6mu4vd34ufpmdkto0p@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:01:38 GMT, Dave Oldridge
> <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>Teabagger <43078607@recpoker.com> wrote in
>>news:1165510235$917855@recpoker.com:
>
>>> Another example of this in no limit is calling an all-in bet
>>> pre-flop with AA. For argument's sake, the pot is paying you about
>>> even money, but you are about an 80% favorite to win the hand vs.
>>> whatever he is holding.
>
>>> Wow. Why does it seem like I am getting the wrong end of this stick?
>>> It doesn't seem like AA holds up for me more than 20% of the time?
>
>>AA will hold up 80% of the time over a random pair of cards. You
>>don't get called by a random pair of cards very often. Most people
>>look and then either call you or fold.
>
> You're an 80% favorite over a lot of the stuff that calls you, since
> only very good hands do call you (barring the occasional idiot).
> Unless someone is jamming into you with suited connectors (in which
> case they have the right hand for getting unlucky enough to run into
> aces), in which case you're only about a 77/23 favorite.
>
> Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
>
> 1,712,304 games 0.062 secs 27,617,806 games/sec
>
> Board:
> Dead:
>
> equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
> Hand 1: 23.0325 % 22.87% 00.16% { 7s6s }
> Hand 2: 76.9675 % 76.81% 00.16% { AcAd }
>
> The other kind of stuff that calls you is KK, QQ, and other big pairs.
> You're an even bigger favorite over that stuff.
>
> Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
>
> 1,712,304 games 0.005 secs 342,460,800 games/sec
>
> Board:
> Dead:
>
> equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
> Hand 1: 18.0539 % 17.82% 00.23% { KcKs }
> Hand 2: 81.9461 % 81.71% 00.23% { AcAd }
>
>
> ---
>
> Then there's AK. Such a beautiful thing to see until KK hits the
> flop.
>
> Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
>
> 82,190,592 games 0.125 secs 657,524,736 games/sec
>
> Board:
> Dead:
>
> equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
> Hand 1: 91.8438 % 91.19% 00.65% { AA }
> Hand 2: 08.1562 % 07.51% 00.65% { AKs, AKo }
>
> --
>
> In any case, you're at least an 80/20 favorite over specifically the
> kind of hands that call you. You're a slightly smaller favorite
> against the best ace-cracking hands (middle suited connectors), and an
> 85/15 favorite against random junk.
>
> Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
>
> 12,585,434,400 games 20.953 secs 600,650,713 games/sec
>
> Board:
> Dead:
>
> equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
> Hand 1: 85.2037 % 84.93% 00.27% { AA }
> Hand 2: 14.7963 % 14.52% 00.27% { random }
Yep...all I'm sayin' is that you're probably more likely to end up all
the way in against 76s simply because of the way the game is being played
these days. Which says something for raising hard on AA before the flop
rather than trapping. Best thing is to do it both ways at random. That
way it's harder to put you on a hand.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 13:08:56
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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"Teabagger" <43078607@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1165510235$917855@recpoker.com...
>
> Another example of this in no limit is calling an all-in bet pre-flop with
> AA.
> For argument's sake, the pot is paying you about even money, but you are
> about
> an 80% favorite to win the hand vs. whatever he is holding.
>
> Wow. Why does it seem like I am getting the wrong end of this stick? It
> doesn't
> seem like AA holds up for me more than 20% of the time?
Stop limping with them dummy ;-)
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 08:21:23
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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GH wrote:
> Thanks. I think I understood that definition, but there's another one
> that has to to with the play of a hand, pot odds, etc., that I don't
> quite grasp fully.
Any opportunity for gambling with a positive expectation is an overlay.
I guess the rewards of winning are "over" the odds the game is
offering to "lay".
E.g.,
"Why would I want to flip coins for even money? I have no overlay."
It generalizes to advantage that are more difficult to quantify but are
still real.
"My overlay in that game is my ability to read players after the flop."
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 10:38:25
From: Jeff D
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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Overlay is when there is a guaranteed prize pool and the amount of players
buying in doesn't add up to that guaranteed amount.
For example..
If stars had a tournament that guaranteed 5000 dollars in the prize pool and
the buyin was 10.00, and only 400 people were signed up then there would be
a 1000.00 overlay.
"GH" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:Xns98926B2FF815Dgr810rcomcastnet@130.133.1.4...
>I see this term "overlay" bandied about in various contexts, but what
> is/are the exact definition(s) as it/they relate to poker?
>
> GH
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 15:44:07
From: GH
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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Jeff D wrote:
> Overlay is when there is a guaranteed prize pool and the amount of
> players buying in doesn't add up to that guaranteed amount.
>
> For example..
>
> If stars had a tournament that guaranteed 5000 dollars in the prize
> pool and the buyin was 10.00, and only 400 people were signed up then
> there would be a 1000.00 overlay.
Thanks. I think I understood that definition, but there's another one
that has to to with the play of a hand, pot odds, etc., that I don't
quite grasp fully.
GH
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Date: 07 Dec 16:44:57
From: Teabagger
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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Overlay, as it relates to a hand refers to pot odds vs odds of making or
winning your hand.
Ex: playing 5-10 limit, you are on a flush draw. To make your hand with 1 card
to come is about 4-1 against you. In order to call the turn bet ($10) the pot
needs to be paying you at least 4-1 to break even. If there is $60 in the pot,
it's paying you 6-1 to call. That is your overlay. Pot pays 6-1 on a 4-1 call.
Playing in loose limit games is all about overlays on drawing hands.
On Dec 7 2006 10:44 AM, GH wrote:
> Jeff D wrote:
>
> > Overlay is when there is a guaranteed prize pool and the amount of
> > players buying in doesn't add up to that guaranteed amount.
> >
> > For example..
> >
> > If stars had a tournament that guaranteed 5000 dollars in the prize
> > pool and the buyin was 10.00, and only 400 people were signed up then
> > there would be a 1000.00 overlay.
>
> Thanks. I think I understood that definition, but there's another one
> that has to to with the play of a hand, pot odds, etc., that I don't
> quite grasp fully.
>
> GH
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 07:52:48
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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On Dec 7 2006 4:44 PM, GH wrote:
> Jeff D wrote:
>
> > Overlay is when there is a guaranteed prize pool and the amount of
> > players buying in doesn't add up to that guaranteed amount.
> >
> > For example..
> >
> > If stars had a tournament that guaranteed 5000 dollars in the prize
> > pool and the buyin was 10.00, and only 400 people were signed up then
> > there would be a 1000.00 overlay.
>
> Thanks. I think I understood that definition, but there's another one
> that has to to with the play of a hand, pot odds, etc., that I don't
> quite grasp fully.
you're 4-1 to make your hand and get pot odds of 5-1.
>
> GH
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
____________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:02:46
From: GH
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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xyious wrote:
> you're 4-1 to make your hand and get pot odds of 5-1.
Ah. Thanks.
GH
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 11:21:52
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Overlay - definition?
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On Dec 7 2006 10:02 AM, GH wrote:
> xyious wrote:
>
> > you're 4-1 to make your hand and get pot odds of 5-1.
>
> Ah. Thanks.
>
> GH
From: Morphy - view profile
Date: Tues, Mar 1 2005 9:07 pm
Email: Morphy <x...@morphy.com >
Groups: rec.gambling.poker
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