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Date: 27 Nov 2006 15:57:12
From: Case Crab
Subject: Online NL problem
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Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
$100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
(EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
his remaining $82. Should I call?
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:23:26
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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brewmaster wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 6:06 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
>
> > Easy call he has K-Q
>
> I dunno. If this was on Stars a K was coming for sure.
I'm thinking another Q so you really believe you got it then the K on
the river. It is RIVER stars after all.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:44:33
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27 2006 6:23 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
> brewmaster wrote:
> > On Nov 27 2006 6:06 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
> >
> > > Easy call he has K-Q
> >
> > I dunno. If this was on Stars a K was coming for sure.
>
> I'm thinking another Q so you really believe you got it then the K on
> the river. It is RIVER stars after all.
Yes, that is even more likely.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:06:11
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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Easy call he has K-Q
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:16:15
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27 2006 6:06 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
> Easy call he has K-Q
I dunno. If this was on Stars a K was coming for sure.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:44:07
From: ACS
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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No, at best it is a chop.
On Nov 27 2006 7:57 PM, Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
-------
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:37:56
From: Case Crab
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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phlash74 wrote:
> On Nov 27, 3:57 pm, "Case Crab" <casec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
> >
> > $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> > (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> > AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> > Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
> >
> > The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> > his remaining $82. Should I call?
>
> Easy fold. I actually think you should have just called his flop bet.
I considered that, but figured that if I kept calling he would be
betting $20 on the turn and then pushing on the river, and then I would
have a difficult problem.
> If it's a continuation bet with AK, you've got him drawing to 3 outs
> (there's no straight or flush draws on the board) and your raise will
> simply cause him to fold.
True, but if he has AK he would probably check and fold to a bet on the
turn.
> If he's got KQ, same situation. He's not
> likely to have a 7 raising from EP, so that leaves QQ/KK/AA to beat
> you, and he's drawing very thin if your hand is good now.
He's more likely to hold QQ or KK or AA than to hold specifically KQ.
He hadn't been raising much preflop, so I didn't expect him to have QJ
or worse. I put him on AJ, KQ, 99, or better.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:12:25
From: Case Crab
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
Thanks to everyone who replied. Everyone said it was a fold and that's
what I did. I fully expected EP to have KK or AA. But he showed KQo,
and explained that he thought I was bluffing.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:00:18
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27, 3:57 pm, "Case Crab" <casec...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
Easy fold. I actually think you should have just called his flop bet.
If it's a continuation bet with AK, you've got him drawing to 3 outs
(there's no straight or flush draws on the board) and your raise will
simply cause him to fold. If he's got KQ, same situation. He's not
likely to have a 7 raising from EP, so that leaves QQ/KK/AA to beat
you, and he's drawing very thin if your hand is good now.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 10:35:59
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On 27 Nov 2006 15:57:12 -0800, "Case Crab" <casecrab@gmail.com > wrote:
>Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
>$100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
>(EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
>AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
>Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
>The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
>his remaining $82. Should I call?
Do you have a read? Ever seen him push TP? Ever seen him bluff?
Against an unknown, this is a clear fold in my view.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 28 Nov
From: Follow
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27 2006 4:57 PM, Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
Fold.
Follow :)
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Date: 28 Nov
From: Tanya AKA MissT74
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27 2006 4:57 PM, Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
I put him on AA or KK, so I say Fold.
T
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 15:59:49
From: Olemite
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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No. You are beat. EP has Aces.
Ole
Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 11:00:19
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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Case Crab wrote:
> phlash74 wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 3:57 pm, "Case Crab" <casec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
> > >
> > > $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> > > (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> > > AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> > > Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
> > >
> > > The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> > > his remaining $82. Should I call?
> >
> > Easy fold. I actually think you should have just called his flop bet.
>
> I considered that, but figured that if I kept calling he would be
> betting $20 on the turn and then pushing on the river, and then I would
> have a difficult problem.
In that situation, I would call the turn bet and fold to a push on the
river, losing close to the same amount you did. If he's willing to
fire three bullets on a board where it's obvious I don't have a draw,
more power to him. The only reason I don't like your raise is I don't
think you get more money out of him if your hand is good and you open
the door for him to raise you off your hand.
>
> > If it's a continuation bet with AK, you've got him drawing to 3 outs
> > (there's no straight or flush draws on the board) and your raise will
> > simply cause him to fold.
>
> True, but if he has AK he would probably check and fold to a bet on the
> turn.
Unless the Ace hits, in which case you can extract some more money out
of him. If the K hits, you can get away from it cheaply. A blank and
you've won a small pot with minimal risk, which is a pretty good result
with AQ.
> > If he's got KQ, same situation. He's not
> > likely to have a 7 raising from EP, so that leaves QQ/KK/AA to beat
> > you, and he's drawing very thin if your hand is good now.
>
> He's more likely to hold QQ or KK or AA than to hold specifically KQ.
> He hadn't been raising much preflop, so I didn't expect him to have QJ
> or worse. I put him on AJ, KQ, 99, or better.
Oh I agree that I would expect the overpair or boat much more than I
would that you have him beat. All the more reason not to raise. I
think a flat call on the flop better represents a possible 7 (like you
called his preflop raise with 76 suited) or queens full. A raise there
almost suits a bluff better, since there's no way you can call a
reraise with your hand.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 09:17:02
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27 2006 4:57 PM, Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
Do you have any info on the EP player? AQ isn't that great against an EP
raiser. I think you could arguably fold here. If you catch an A or a Q,
you could be in trouble. Don't get me wrong, AQ is a great hand to raise
with, but calling with it is a bit dubious absent any info. Anyhow, if
you do call, you need to be cautious post flop (calling isn't a disaster,
but it could set one up).
If you know the guy would raise with all sorts of hands in EP, then
calling is probably mandatory. It really all depends on the player.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
I would say probably not. What are you ahead of here? KQ? JJ? Not much
that would be willing to commit (and KQ/JJ don't normally fall under the
"willing to commit" category on a Q high flop with this kind of action,
unless he knows you would bluff raise here frequently).
Again, this is really absent any info. There are cash game players that I
would beat into the pot with this hand, and others I wouldn't even see a
flop with.
Some alternative lines to consider:
1) Reraise preflop to find out if your AQ is worth playing. If he has
AA/KK/QQ, you can find out much cheaper with a preflop raise to $12 than
with a preflop call of $4 and a flop raise to $25.
2) Flat call on the flop. He can't feel good about a call on a flop like
that, with a pair and no draw, unless he's strong. Plus he might continue
and bluff the turn with hands you can beat as well as bet hands you can't
beat, and you could luck out and catch a Q or A. Re-evaluate on the turn
when the next card comes off and you get a feel for where the hand is
heading.
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 02:49:33
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On 27 Nov 2006 15:57:12 -0800, "Case Crab" <casecrab@gmail.com > wrote:
>Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>$100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
>(EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
>AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
>Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
>his remaining $82. Should I call?
This is one of those situations where you shouldn't donk off your whole
stack with TPTK. While as you posted he happened to have one of the
few hands you could beat here, almost any other hand he has crushes
you.
I might be saying that just because it's WSX, though. Back on Party
a year or so ago, I would call that against many players who would donk
off their whole stack with AK no pair, to the point it was like someone
jamming the flop was a tell that they probably had AK or even nothing
at all. I don't see much of that kind of idiocy on WSX.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 13:55:19
From: mo_charles
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
reraise, for sure!
mo_charles
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Date: 28 Nov 21:23:47
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: Online NL problem
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On Nov 27 2006 11:57 PM, Case Crab wrote:
> Sorry, no hand record, but here goes:
>
> $100 NL on WSX, blinds 50c and $1. Full table. UTG folds, next player
> (EP), with $94, makes it $4, folded to me two from the button. I have
> AsQs and have EP covered. I call.
> Everyone else folds and we're heads-up with $9.50 in the pot.
>
> The flop is Qc 7h 7d. EP bets $8 and I raise to $25. EP pushes in for
> his remaining $82. Should I call?
Any information on the guy? If not, it is a hard decision. You will either be
miles ahead or miles in front. Given no other information, I am swayed towards
a call, could be a med PP not believing your had the Q, or QK overplaying the
hand, or even AK refusing to believe that AK could lose. On the other hand, it
could also be AA/KK...but I would probably take the chance here.
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