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Date: 30 Nov 18:04:06
From: Teabagger
Subject: Omaha help
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1. I have been wiining at hold'em, but I have heard that Omaha games are the
easiest to beat. Is this true?
2. If so, any books anyone can recommend on learning Omaha?
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 18:16:08
From: Edward Hutchison
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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In my opinion, a good OM/8 player will usually win more than a good HEM
player--assuming the same limits.
There are several good books on the subject of Omaha, but if you are a
novice at the game, you may also find my Omaha starting hand point system of
interest. A lot of people have told me that they have found it helpful.
You can judge for yourself:
http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
--
Edward Hutchison
Madison, MS
Objective reviews of Internet poker sites and a point system
for evaluating poker starting hands: www.ERHutchison.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:45:06
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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Edward Hutchison wrote:
> In my opinion, a good OM/8 player will usually win more than a good HEM
> player--assuming the same limits.
>
> There are several good books on the subject of Omaha, but if you are a
> novice at the game, you may also find my Omaha starting hand point system of
> interest. A lot of people have told me that they have found it helpful.
> You can judge for yourself:
>
> http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
Do you have any advice for short-handed play? I find myself losing
lots of money quickly whenever I try 5-handed limit O8.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:40:24
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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On 30 Nov 2006 13:45:06 -0800, "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz >
wrote:
>Edward Hutchison wrote:
>> In my opinion, a good OM/8 player will usually win more than a good HEM
>> player--assuming the same limits.
>>
>> There are several good books on the subject of Omaha, but if you are a
>> novice at the game, you may also find my Omaha starting hand point system of
>> interest. A lot of people have told me that they have found it helpful.
>> You can judge for yourself:
>>
>> http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
>
>Do you have any advice for short-handed play? I find myself losing
>lots of money quickly whenever I try 5-handed limit O8.
Are you playing too many hands? From the ones you post, it does look a
bit like it.
Are you drawing to nonnut lows with no shot at high?
Are you clear on which hands you should play and which you fold on the
flop and turn? This is the area I struggle with: quickly working out
whether my draws are good enough to continue with.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 22:54:25
From: Edward Hutchison
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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Old Wolf asks:
Do you have any advice for short-handed play? I find myself losing lots of
money quickly whenever I try 5-handed limit O8?
Other than noting the obvious need to lower your starting hand requirements,
I can't be of much help. My system is designed to work with a full or
nearly full table of average low limit OM/8 players.
Sorry.
--
Edward Hutchison
Madison, MS
Objective reviews of Internet poker sites and a point system
for evaluating poker starting hands: www.ERHutchison.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:26:37
From: Ewan Hoozarmi
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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In article <1164923106.027788.24780
@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >, oldwolf@inspire.net.nz says...
> Edward Hutchison wrote:
> > In my opinion, a good OM/8 player will usually win more than a good HEM
> > player--assuming the same limits.
> >
> > There are several good books on the subject of Omaha, but if you are a
> > novice at the game, you may also find my Omaha starting hand point system of
> > interest. A lot of people have told me that they have found it helpful.
> > You can judge for yourself:
> >
> > http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
>
> Do you have any advice for short-handed play? I find myself losing
> lots of money quickly whenever I try 5-handed limit O8.
>
>
Drawing hands are better in Omaha, and in fixed limit there
will almost always be enough odds to go for a draw, so it may
look like you're being sucked out on more, but in fact it's
just the way the game works. You need the nuts or a good draw
to it on the flop. If you don't have that, get out.
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Date: 02 Dec
From: arlo payne
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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On Nov 30 2006 2:45 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> Edward Hutchison wrote:
> > In my opinion, a good OM/8 player will usually win more than a good HEM
> > player--assuming the same limits.
> >
> > There are several good books on the subject of Omaha, but if you are a
> > novice at the game, you may also find my Omaha starting hand point system of
> > interest. A lot of people have told me that they have found it helpful.
> > You can judge for yourself:
> >
> > http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
>
> Do you have any advice for short-handed play? I find myself losing
> lots of money quickly whenever I try 5-handed limit O8.
All kidding aside:
then dont play short handed games.
Also I really think Eds system is a good tool for new players and I also think
my first step lesson is very good for new players but sadly few have the will
power to follow my basic lesson 100% my basic lesson is also good for anyone
that has lost their feel for the game. Sure you will most likely blow off $100
while doing the lesson but it is well worth it in the long run.
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:12:55
From: Iceman
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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Teabagger wrote:
> 1. I have been wiining at hold'em, but I have heard that Omaha games are the
> easiest to beat. Is this true?
What kind of Omaha?
Limit Omaha-8 is a very good game for winning money against bad
players, and it's an easy game to learn to play well, but it is rare to
find Omaha-8 games above the low-limits.
Pot-limit Omaha high is a very complicated and difficult game, but
there is a lot of high-stakes action in it, and it's a very skillful
game where an expert can win a lot of money from a pretty good player.
Pot-limit Omaha-8 is like watching paint dry, but it is a great game
against idiots. There's no point to playing it against people who have
any clue at all.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:06:15
From: Iceman
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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thedarkman wrote:
> My advice is to avoid short handed Omaha or short handed anything; you
> have to play too many hands.
But you can have a much larger advantage in shorthanded play than in
full games. In a 10-handed B&M limit holdem game with bad players you
might win 1 BB/hr; at most 2 BB/hr if they were total idiots and the
rake was low. In a 4-5 handed B&M limit holdem game with bad players
you could win 5-6 BB/hr if you knew how to adjust. You have to play
more hands, but that's just the beginning of the strategy changes in
shorthanded play, and you have to adjust your play to exploit your
opponents' mistakes to a greater degree than in full games.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 07:55:04
From: thedarkman
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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My advice is to avoid short handed Omaha or short handed anything; you
have to play too many hands.
Old Wolf wrote:
> Edward Hutchison wrote:
> > In my opinion, a good OM/8 player will usually win more than a good HEM
> > player--assuming the same limits.
> >
> > There are several good books on the subject of Omaha, but if you are a
> > novice at the game, you may also find my Omaha starting hand point system of
> > interest. A lot of people have told me that they have found it helpful.
> > You can judge for yourself:
> >
> > http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
>
> Do you have any advice for short-handed play? I find myself losing
> lots of money quickly whenever I try 5-handed limit O8.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 23:11:22
From: Omaha Chris
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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Teabagger wrote:
> 1. I have been wiining at hold'em, but I have heard that Omaha games are the
> easiest to beat. Is this true?
Omaha8 is the greatest poker game on Earth when it's you against 7-9 bad
and/or loose players, and is 100% pointless against 7-9 tightish and/or
competent players.
Holdem, on the other hand, has a lot of wiggle room. It is a much more
strategically fluid game and just about any game can be profitably
adjusted to.
But an Omaha8 game where your opponents are choosing the "book" hands
and playing more or less straightforwardly after the flop can't be
beaten. It just can't. Go ahead. Be as "creative" as you want. Trust me
on this, I've tried it all. Most hands you just get your money back, and
that's if you get lucky.
You might be able to beat a tableful of supernits for a small profit by
stealing, but any table where the players basically know what they're
doing and aren't total pushovers is a complete waste of time.
Do not bother with Omaha 8 online (at least now that Pacific Poker is
gone). Online poker players aren't gambly and ignorant enough. Sure, a
good online game will pop up here and there, but only by accident.
If you want to play Omaha 8, play it LIVE, preferably in the cardrooms
of the San Francisco Bay Area. These are the greatest games in the world.
> 2. If so, any books anyone can recommend on learning Omaha?
Read the Mark Tenner/Lou Krieger book.
There was once a pretty decent website about Omaha, but it would seem
that the link no longer works.
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Date: 01 Dec
From: arlo payne
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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On Dec 1 2006 12:11 AM, Omaha Chris wrote:
>
> But an Omaha8 game where your opponents are choosing the "book" hands
> and playing more or less straightforwardly after the flop can't be
> beaten. It just can't. Go ahead. Be as "creative" as you want. Trust me
> on this, I've tried it all. Most hands you just get your money back, and
> that's if you get lucky.
>
> You might be able to beat a tableful of supernits for a small profit by
> stealing, but any table where the players basically know what they're
> doing and aren't total pushovers is a complete waste of time.
Oh come on Chris you know what you wrote is not true.
People that play "book hands" are very easy to beat. What more could you ask
for than know exactly what someone has in their hand. If you really feel what
you wrote is true then you are just playing at a basic level. The most
important key to Omaha is knowing how others at your table play. One reason
omaha is so easy to beat is so many players know what a so called starting hand
is but have no idea where they really are after the flop. Once you know how to
play a hand after the flop you can play almost any hand before the flop and make
money.
you adjust your play to the play at the table. Sure if the table is nuts you
tighten down and play A2 and you will make money. At a table full of A2 players
you can play almost anything see the flop then know exactly where you are in the
hand. One thing most seem to overlook in Omaha is whgat the other players could
have to call a bet or raise most are just to damn concerned with what they have
and forget the mindset of the other players.
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 02:45:22
From: Omaha Chris
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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Arlo, you are a fine man and a much better Omaha player, but I have
driven myself crazy trying to beat these medium-tight games. They are
death. Tight enough so that you won't get nearly enough value when your
hands hit, but just loose enough so that somebody will always look you
up to the bitter end.
If you play some Arlo J984 crap and the flop comes 6J8, fine, but the A2
player in the hand with you will still draw, and he'll still take half
the pot when his low card comes (assuming he doesn't back into a high
hand and take the whole thing). So, you split the pot and get your money
back. Repeat ad nauseum.
The basic problem with tightish O8 games is the pot-splitting. Your
risk-to-reward when only 2-4 players see the flop just isn't worth the
money you have to put into the pots. There are too many ways for players
to scum out on your high hands by yanking out lows, and vice versa.
I would say I'm in at least somewhat respectable company thinking this.
Michael Cappelletti says not to bother with these kinds of games,
basically for the reason I give (the bi-directionality).
Russ Fox says this: "While a tight Omaha game can be beaten, it usually
can only be beaten for a small amount" (as quoted from here:
http://www.thepokerforum.com/omahahilow17.htm).
This is why I gave up on online O8. I play the live $4/$8-$6/$12 games
here in California because they're great, but those are a billion times
better than even the 50 cent games online.
If I'm going to be at tightish tables (most online poker), I think stud
is a much more rewarding game for me to be working on.
> Oh come on Chris you know what you wrote is not true.
> People that play "book hands" are very easy to beat. What more could you ask
> for than know exactly what someone has in their hand. If you really feel what
> you wrote is true then you are just playing at a basic level. The most
> important key to Omaha is knowing how others at your table play. One reason
> omaha is so easy to beat is so many players know what a so called starting hand
> is but have no idea where they really are after the flop. Once you know how to
> play a hand after the flop you can play almost any hand before the flop and make
> money.
> you adjust your play to the play at the table. Sure if the table is nuts you
> tighten down and play A2 and you will make money. At a table full of A2 players
> you can play almost anything see the flop then know exactly where you are in the
> hand. One thing most seem to overlook in Omaha is whgat the other players could
> have to call a bet or raise most are just to damn concerned with what they have
> and forget the mindset of the other players.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 17:55:22
From: Omaholic
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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On Dec 1 2006 1:35 AM, arlo payne wrote:
> On Dec 1 2006 12:11 AM, Omaha Chris wrote:
>
> >
> > But an Omaha8 game where your opponents are choosing the "book" hands
> > and playing more or less straightforwardly after the flop can't be
> > beaten. It just can't. Go ahead. Be as "creative" as you want. Trust me
> > on this, I've tried it all. Most hands you just get your money back, and
> > that's if you get lucky.
> >
> > You might be able to beat a tableful of supernits for a small profit by
> > stealing, but any table where the players basically know what they're
> > doing and aren't total pushovers is a complete waste of time.
>
> Oh come on Chris you know what you wrote is not true.
> People that play "book hands" are very easy to beat. What more could you ask
> for than know exactly what someone has in their hand. If you really feel
what
> you wrote is true then you are just playing at a basic level. The most
> important key to Omaha is knowing how others at your table play. One reason
> omaha is so easy to beat is so many players know what a so called starting
hand
> is but have no idea where they really are after the flop. Once you know how
to
> play a hand after the flop you can play almost any hand before the flop and
make
> money.
> you adjust your play to the play at the table. Sure if the table is nuts you
> tighten down and play A2 and you will make money. At a table full of A2
players
> you can play almost anything see the flop then know exactly where you are in
the
> hand. One thing most seem to overlook in Omaha is whgat the other players
could
> have to call a bet or raise most are just to damn concerned with what they
have
> and forget the mindset of the other players.
I was going to let this go, but I agree with Arlo that this kind of game
certainly is beatable -- in fact, I kind of like this kind of a game,
because it is profitable but with low variance. The keys to winning this
kind of a game are using your position and value betting marginal hands.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 08:44:29
From: Charlie Foxtrot
Subject: Re: Omaha help
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:11:22 -0800, Omaha Chris
<cpsaros@NOSPAMgmail.com > wrote:
>Online poker players aren't gambly and ignorant enough.
ROTFLMAO!!!!! That's possibly the funniest statement ever made on
Usenet.
Foxtrot
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