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Main
Date: 11 Dec 2006 06:05:34
From: eleaticus
Subject: OT: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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I have questions, please.
xo-RAH-sho?
nemetz: when first?
'Motherland': when first?
Ponyali= >Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
--
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
eleaticus@bellsouth.net
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:26:11
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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"eleaticus" <eleaticus@bellsouth.net > wrote in message
news:%Ibfh.2377$V07.1899@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>I have questions, please.
>
> xo-RAH-sho?
> nemetz: when first?
> 'Motherland': when first?
> Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
>
I'm not native; I was never even good at it, it was long ago... but
nobody else has ventured an answer. Xo-RAH-sho is a linguistic
impossibility (there are people who pronounce unaccented o as o. but then
it would be Xo-RO-sho; I don't know why the accent should be out-of-place).
I can't imagine how anyone could have goofed like that. I seem to remember
that ponyali is some kind of a plural imperative. It could also be pony'a'
li (contraction for "Do you understnd?")
It's easy to imagine that nemetz may have been a generic term before there
was a Germany.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:49:43
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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"Stephen Jacobs" <jacosa@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:pqqdnaZV5tp4P-DYnZ2dnUVZ_syunZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "eleaticus" <eleaticus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:%Ibfh.2377$V07.1899@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> >I have questions, please.
> >
> > xo-RAH-sho?
> > nemetz: when first?
> > 'Motherland': when first?
> > Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
> >
>
> I'm not native; I was never even good at it, it was long ago... but
> nobody else has ventured an answer. Xo-RAH-sho is a linguistic
> impossibility (there are people who pronounce unaccented o as o. but then
> it would be Xo-RO-sho; I don't know why the accent should be
out-of-place).
Not only out of place but the wrong vowel, yet in none of the Russkij titles
did I see anything I knew to be spelled other than what I 'knew' to be
correct.
Also, medved became midvid as with english 'i' as in middle instead of a
yeh.
Masculine names ending in lo and la.
The movie's time is around 1272 so a vowel change might have been expected.
Come to think of it, the whole rhythm/diction of the speakers was not
modern, although it may have been influenced by theatre Russian, which I
know nothing about.
The dialogue was 'clearly' catering to non-native Russian speakers in the
sense that it was never complicated.
> I can't imagine how anyone could have goofed like that. I seem to remember
> that ponyali is some kind of a plural imperative. It could also be
pony'a'
> li (contraction for "Do you understnd?")
I wrote that up wrong, it was ponimali.
> It's easy to imagine that nemetz may have been a generic term before
there
> was a Germany.
I can't imagine they had much dealing with Teutons - Swedes aren't, right? -
before that time.
I noticed in Empires of the Word that there was a Germanic tribe with a
similar name, but my native speaker teachers said the word comes from
'grabber'/thief.
Sorta like the Sioux word from whitey: grabs-the-fat, wasichu.
I never heard how the Tsalagi (Cherokee) got sili (dog/dogs) for Engishmen.
It was a very interesting movie. When IFC brings it back, check it out.
I had also TIVOed the Russian ballad of a Soldier but it turned out to be a
French movie Widow of blah blah,
Hardly my only source for getting pissed at IFC recently.
--
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
>
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 07:47:31
From:
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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eleaticus wrote:
> <caliban43@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1165841201.920308.163400@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > eleaticus wrote:
> > > oh, and
> > >
> > > the film date was 1938; Staline already preparing for war with Hitler?
> >
> > Stalin had a faily paranoid worldview -- he was probably preparing for
> > war with everybody, all the time.
>
> I'm not sure paranoia is a good word to describe someone the whole world was
> against.
>
Well, even paranoids have real enemies.
Take a look at how Stalin's domestic policies, and paranoid is an
understatement when describing his management style.
John Harkness
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:07:44
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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<caliban43@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1165852051.400555.303680@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well, even paranoids have real enemies.
>
> Take a look at how Stalin's domestic policies, and paranoid is an
> understatement when describing his management style.
>
> John Harkness
>
And in the end, it has to count as a REAL bad beat to have a minor stroke
at a time when everyone knows that you're about to purge your physicians.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 04:46:42
From:
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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eleaticus wrote:
> oh, and
>
> the film date was 1938; Staline already preparing for war with Hitler?
Stalin had a faily paranoid worldview -- he was probably preparing for
war with everybody, all the time.
John Harkness
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 07:01:35
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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<caliban43@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1165841201.920308.163400@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> eleaticus wrote:
> > oh, and
> >
> > the film date was 1938; Staline already preparing for war with Hitler?
>
> Stalin had a faily paranoid worldview -- he was probably preparing for
> war with everybody, all the time.
lol.
This reminds me of the movie Red Heat, when Arnold is in the Georgian bar
and the Georgian asks why the Russians are always picking on them.
--
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
> John Harkness
>
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 06:59:26
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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<caliban43@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1165841201.920308.163400@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> eleaticus wrote:
> > oh, and
> >
> > the film date was 1938; Staline already preparing for war with Hitler?
>
> Stalin had a faily paranoid worldview -- he was probably preparing for
> war with everybody, all the time.
I'm not sure paranoia is a good word to describe someone the whole world was
against.
On the other hand, Germany had not invaded Russia as often as we, the Brits,
etc. had, so what was the problem? lol
--
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
> John Harkness
>
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 06:08:16
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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oh, and
the film date was 1938; Staline already preparing for war with Hitler?
orchestra director was THE (?) Khatchaturian.
--
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
eleaticus@bellsouth.net
"eleaticus" <eleaticus@bellsouth.net > wrote in message
news:%Ibfh.2377$V07.1899@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> I have questions, please.
>
> xo-RAH-sho?
> nemetz: when first?
> 'Motherland': when first?
> Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
>
> --
> eleaticus
> ee-lee-AT-i-cus
> eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
>
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 13:11:36
From: SheepCookers
Subject: Re: OT: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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horosho - translates good or OK
nemetz - translates german
'Motherland' - pronounced 'Rodina' in russian, russians refers to country
more often as motherland then as fatherland
Ponyali - plurar for ponyal (understand) which is a more direct less
polite version of ponimayete which is used for both plurar or single more
polite term.
On Dec 11 2006 4:05 AM, eleaticus wrote:
> I have questions, please.
>
> xo-RAH-sho?
> nemetz: when first?
> 'Motherland': when first?
> Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
>
> --
> eleaticus
> ee-lee-AT-i-cus
> eleaticus@bellsouth.net
--------
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 19:55:02
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: OT: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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"SheepCookers" <a1703@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:8hi354xbg5.ln2@recgroups.com...
Thanks, but ...
> horosho - translates good or OK
We - I and the main respondent - knew what zorosho means, that was the point
in part, the speaker accented the second syllable and made it an AH, not an
OH.
> nemetz - translates german
Yes, we all knew that, but they had very little interface w/'Germans' in
1272, and the word comes from 'grabber'/thief, and there was no German for
hundreds of years afterwards.
Hence: "when first?".
> 'Motherland' - pronounced 'Rodina' in russian, russians refers to country
> more often as motherland then as fatherland
Yes, we know, but there was no country of Russia in 1272, nor before, nor
for a long, long time afterwards.
Hence: "when first?".
> Ponyali - plurar for ponyal (understand) which is a more direct less
> polite version of ponimayete which is used for both plurar or single more
> polite term.
relevant.
>
>
> On Dec 11 2006 4:05 AM, eleaticus wrote:
>
> > I have questions, please.
> >
> > xo-RAH-sho?
> > nemetz: when first?
> > 'Motherland': when first?
> > Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
> >
> > --
> > eleaticus
> > ee-lee-AT-i-cus
> > eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
> --------
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 18:09:43
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: OT: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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The two problems are the funny position of the accent in xorosho (and
incidentally the pronunciation of an accented o as the neutral vowel and of
an unaccented o as long o) and the fact that at the time depicted, there
was no such thing as Germany, but rather dozens of little German states.
"SheepCookers" <a1703@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:8hi354xbg5.ln2@recgroups.com...
> horosho - translates good or OK
> nemetz - translates german
> 'Motherland' - pronounced 'Rodina' in russian, russians refers to country
> more often as motherland then as fatherland
> Ponyali - plurar for ponyal (understand) which is a more direct less
> polite version of ponimayete which is used for both plurar or single more
> polite term.
>
>
> On Dec 11 2006 4:05 AM, eleaticus wrote:
>
>> I have questions, please.
>>
>> xo-RAH-sho?
>> nemetz: when first?
>> 'Motherland': when first?
>> Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
>>
>> --
>> eleaticus
>> ee-lee-AT-i-cus
>> eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
> --------
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 16:04:05
From: SheepCookers
Subject: Re: OT: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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words in russian sometimes change meaning depends on where the accent is
the word.
xorosho accent is on the last sylable ... I think prononciation is matter
of choice and it could be prononounce as xorosho, xarasho and xorasho. I
think xarasho is most common but it could be because of where I grew up. I
was a teenager when I left so I don't know if there is a rule where none
accented o's can/should be pronounced as 'a'.
('x' - sounds like 'h' or 'kh')
I don' t know if they actually called Germanic tribe Germans in Russia of
that time. It wasn't even Russia technically but Novgorod city state (not
sure what's the right term here). But in any case the word 'nemetz' would
mean more of german decent then specifically from germany.
I really like wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky
On Dec 12 2006 3:09 PM, Stephen Jacobs wrote:
> The two problems are the funny position of the accent in xorosho (and
> incidentally the pronunciation of an accented o as the neutral vowel and of
> an unaccented o as long o) and the fact that at the time depicted, there
> was no such thing as Germany, but rather dozens of little German states.
>
>
> "SheepCookers" <a1703@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:8hi354xbg5.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > horosho - translates good or OK
> > nemetz - translates german
> > 'Motherland' - pronounced 'Rodina' in russian, russians refers to country
> > more often as motherland then as fatherland
> > Ponyali - plurar for ponyal (understand) which is a more direct less
> > polite version of ponimayete which is used for both plurar or single more
> > polite term.
> >
> >
> > On Dec 11 2006 4:05 AM, eleaticus wrote:
> >
> >> I have questions, please.
> >>
> >> xo-RAH-sho?
> >> nemetz: when first?
> >> 'Motherland': when first?
> >> Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
> >>
> >> --
> >> eleaticus
> >> ee-lee-AT-i-cus
> >> eleaticus@bellsouth.net
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 19:58:34
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: OT: any native russian speakers see Alexander Nevsky this week?
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"SheepCookers" <a1703@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:lks354xo16.ln2@recgroups.com...
> words in russian sometimes change meaning depends on where the accent is
> the word.
>
> xorosho accent is on the last sylable ... I think prononciation is matter
> of choice and it could be prononounce as xorosho, xarasho and xorasho. I
> think xarasho is most common but it could be because of where I grew up. I
> was a teenager when I left so I don't know if there is a rule where none
> accented o's can/should be pronounced as 'a'.
OK!
If you grew up rural the accent may be more ancient/original.
--
eleaticus
ee-lee-AT-i-cus
eleaticus@bellsouth.net
>
> ('x' - sounds like 'h' or 'kh')
>
> I don' t know if they actually called Germanic tribe Germans in Russia of
> that time. It wasn't even Russia technically but Novgorod city state (not
> sure what's the right term here). But in any case the word 'nemetz' would
> mean more of german decent then specifically from germany.
>
> I really like wikipedia.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky
>
>
> On Dec 12 2006 3:09 PM, Stephen Jacobs wrote:
>
> > The two problems are the funny position of the accent in xorosho (and
> > incidentally the pronunciation of an accented o as the neutral vowel and
of
> > an unaccented o as long o) and the fact that at the time depicted,
there
> > was no such thing as Germany, but rather dozens of little German
states.
> >
> >
> > "SheepCookers" <a1703@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:8hi354xbg5.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > horosho - translates good or OK
> > > nemetz - translates german
> > > 'Motherland' - pronounced 'Rodina' in russian, russians refers to
country
> > > more often as motherland then as fatherland
> > > Ponyali - plurar for ponyal (understand) which is a more direct less
> > > polite version of ponimayete which is used for both plurar or single
more
> > > polite term.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 11 2006 4:05 AM, eleaticus wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have questions, please.
> > >>
> > >> xo-RAH-sho?
> > >> nemetz: when first?
> > >> 'Motherland': when first?
> > >> Ponyali=>Understand? (rather than ponimayete?)
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> eleaticus
> > >> ee-lee-AT-i-cus
> > >> eleaticus@bellsouth.net
> > >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>
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