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Main
Date: 27 Nov 13:26:13
From: Nick Wool
Subject: OH8 question
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What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in thinking
something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
suited?
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 10:55:57
From: Iceman
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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Nick Wool wrote:
> What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in thinking
> something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> suited?
AA23 double suited and it's not even close.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 19:18:08
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 11:55 AM, Iceman wrote:
> Nick Wool wrote:
> > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
thinking
> > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> > suited?
>
> AA23 double suited and it's not even close.
That must be why I've never won any piece of a pot with AA23 ds :(
Fell
--
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Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 10:06:25
From: xyious
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
thinking
> something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> suited?
both A223 and A233 suck. the pair is pretty useless since you'll always
have to fear a higher set/full house, and being double suited doesn't help
much.
i'd certainly go for AA23.
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:43:35
From: Edward Hutchison
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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Two thoughts on this subject:
Sure, AA23 double suited is your best bet, but A223 and A233 are not to be
sniffed at. They are premium hands.
While it is true that a low is only possible 60% of the time, it is also
true that you can always make a high by going low but you can't make a low
with only high cards.
--
Edward Hutchison
Madison, MS
Objective reviews of Internet poker sites and a point system
for evaluating poker starting hands: www.ERHutchison.com
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:26:23
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 12:43 PM, Edward Hutchison wrote:
> Two thoughts on this subject:
>
> Sure, AA23 double suited is your best bet, but A223 and A233 are not to be
> sniffed at. They are premium hands.
>
> While it is true that a low is only possible 60% of the time, it is also
> true that you can always make a high by going low but you can't make a low
> with only high cards.
>
> --
> Edward Hutchison
> Madison, MS
>
> Objective reviews of Internet poker sites and a point system
> for evaluating poker starting hands: www.ERHutchison.com
I'd prefer A236 with the ace suited instead of paired twos or threes.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 03:00:56
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:26:23 -0800, "Raider Fan"
<raidersgotscrewed1@hotmail.com > wrote:
>On Nov 27 2006 12:43 PM, Edward Hutchison wrote:
>
>> Two thoughts on this subject:
>>
>> Sure, AA23 double suited is your best bet, but A223 and A233 are not to be
>> sniffed at. They are premium hands.
>>
>> While it is true that a low is only possible 60% of the time, it is also
>> true that you can always make a high by going low but you can't make a low
>> with only high cards.
>>
>> --
>> Edward Hutchison
>> Madison, MS
>>
>> Objective reviews of Internet poker sites and a point system
>> for evaluating poker starting hands: www.ERHutchison.com
>
>I'd prefer A236 with the ace suited instead of paired twos or threes.
The counterfeit protection of the paired 2s or 3s is considerable.
Of course you always want the ace suited but you don't always
get it.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 19:15:44
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 11:06 AM, xyious wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> thinking
> > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> > suited?
>
> both A223 and A233 suck.
Hardly.
>
>
> -Alexander Knopf
> http://www.xyious.com/?links
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:40:06
From: Backslider23
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 1:06 PM, xyious wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> thinking
> > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> > suited?
>
> both A223 and A233 suck. the pair is pretty useless since you'll always
> have to fear a higher set/full house, and being double suited doesn't help
> much.
> i'd certainly go for AA23.
>
>
> -Alexander Knopf
> http://www.xyious.com/?links
A223 and A233 suck? In Omaha 8? Really?
Backslider
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:49:30
From: xyious
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 8:40 PM, Backslider23 wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 1:06 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> > > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> > thinking
> > > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223
double
> > > suited?
> >
> > both A223 and A233 suck. the pair is pretty useless since you'll always
> > have to fear a higher set/full house, and being double suited doesn't help
> > much.
> > i'd certainly go for AA23.
> >
> >
> > -Alexander Knopf
> > http://www.xyious.com/?links
>
> A223 and A233 suck? In Omaha 8? Really?
>
> Backslider
jesus, i didn't say i'd fold em preflop.
i said the pairs are pretty much useless, and so are suited 23.
i tried (and apparently failed) to make the point that both AA23 and A234
are better than A223 and A233. and yes of course they're both premium
hands, hell i'd play A239 the 4th card there is not really that
significant, any A23 is worth playing in most O8 games.
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 06:45:39
From: Backslider23
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 3:49 PM, xyious wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 8:40 PM, Backslider23 wrote:
> > On Nov 27 2006 1:06 PM, xyious wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> > > > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> > > thinking
> > > > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223
> double
> > > > suited?
> > >
> > > both A223 and A233 suck. the pair is pretty useless since you'll always
> > > have to fear a higher set/full house, and being double suited doesn't
help
> > > much.
> > > i'd certainly go for AA23.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> >
> > A223 and A233 suck? In Omaha 8? Really?
> >
> > Backslider
>
> jesus, i didn't say i'd fold em preflop.
So, you're saying you play sucky hands to the flop regularly?
2999 is a sucky hand. A233 is not a sucky hand.
Backslider
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 19:40:52
From: xyious
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 28 2006 3:45 PM, Backslider23 wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 3:49 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Nov 27 2006 8:40 PM, Backslider23 wrote:
> > > On Nov 27 2006 1:06 PM, xyious wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> > > > > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines
in
> > > > thinking
> > > > > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223
> > double
> > > > > suited?
> > > >
> > > > both A223 and A233 suck. the pair is pretty useless since you'll always
> > > > have to fear a higher set/full house, and being double suited doesn't
> help
> > > > much.
> > > > i'd certainly go for AA23.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > >
> > > A223 and A233 suck? In Omaha 8? Really?
> > >
> > > Backslider
> >
> > jesus, i didn't say i'd fold em preflop.
>
> So, you're saying you play sucky hands to the flop regularly?
no i'm saying compared to both AA23 and A234, A223 and A233 suck.
compared to 2999 A223 is a great hand.
obviously, as i said, any A23 is a great hand and should be played.
>
> 2999 is a sucky hand. A233 is not a sucky hand.
>
> Backslider
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 27 Nov 20:02:06
From: Super Steamer
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 11:40 AM, Backslider23 wrote:
> On Nov 27 2006 1:06 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Nov 27 2006 2:26 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> > > What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> > thinking
> > > something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223
> > > double
> > > suited?
> >
> > both A223 and A233 suck. the pair is pretty useless since you'll always
> > have to fear a higher set/full house, and being double suited doesn't help
> > much.
> > i'd certainly go for AA23.
> >
> >
> > -Alexander Knopf
> > http://www.xyious.com/?links
>
> A223 and A233 suck? In Omaha 8? Really?
>
> Backslider
No, they don't suck at all.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 15:02:06
From: Sir Benjamin Nunn
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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"Nick Wool" <43079532@recpoker.com > wrote in message
news:1164633973$911633@recpoker.com...
> What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> thinking
> something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223
> double
> suited?
The double suited bit of 'A223 double suited' is pretty meaningless.
BTN
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Date: 27 Nov 14:33:03
From: Patrick Luminello
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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These are certainly good starting hands in unraised pots but double suited
doesn't mean much if you only have one ace. In raised pots you must have
ability to go high and low, with the nuts.
On Nov 27 2006 8:26 AM, Nick Wool wrote:
> What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in
> thinking
> something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> suited?
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:29:31
From: Sir Benjamin Nunn
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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"Patrick Luminello" <plum237@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1164637983$911648@recpoker.com...
> These are certainly good starting hands in unraised pots but double suited
> doesn't mean much if you only have one ace. In raised pots you must have
> ability to go high and low, with the nuts.
Most new players overvalue their low draws and made lows, and end up getting
quartered in three-way pots a lot of the time which is pretty horrible.
A couple of years ago I heard the best advice for a novice o8 player, which
was: There isn't always a low. There is always a high.
BTN
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:00:05
From: Omaha Chris
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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Patrick Luminello wrote:
> These are certainly good starting hands in unraised pots but double suited
> doesn't mean much if you only have one ace. In raised pots you must have
> ability to go high and low, with the nuts.
What, are you going to fold ANY A23 hand to a raise??
Even flop unseen, your equity with A23 (suits be damned) is monstrous.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 19:39:07
From: NeverMe
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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Most all the stated hands AA23 A223 A233 A23x I am going to war with
them. Infact deal me just those hands and I will a living playing O8
suited or not
McSock
Nick Wool wrote:
> What is the best starting hand in OH8? Would I be on the right lines in thinking
> something like A234 double suited, A233, AA23 double suited and A223 double
> suited?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 27 Nov 21:01:48
From: Stu Ungar Fan
Subject: Re: OH8 question
|
A2A3 double suited is to omaha8 what AA is to texas holdem. Something I'd like
to point out though is that in omaha8, no hole card is better than a 2 to 1
favorite over any other hole card combo if heads up. For example, the 9988
offsuited is pretty bad but it is no more than a 66% to 33% underdog against
A2A3 double suited. On the other hand, in texas holdem, an AA is a 4.5 to 1
favorite over any lower pair, and a AA is close to a 9 to 1 favorite over A8
offsuit.
The point is that omaha8 is a very flop sensitive game.
http://stuungar.blogspot.com
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 13:36:15
From: xyious
Subject: Re: OH8 question
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On Nov 27 2006 10:01 PM, Stu Ungar Fan wrote:
> A2A3 double suited is to omaha8 what AA is to texas holdem. Something I'd
like
> to point out though is that in omaha8, no hole card is better than a 2 to 1
> favorite over any other hole card combo if heads up. For example, the 9988
> offsuited is pretty bad but it is no more than a 66% to 33% underdog against
> A2A3 double suited. On the other hand, in texas holdem, an AA is a 4.5 to 1
> favorite over any lower pair, and a AA is close to a 9 to 1 favorite over A8
> offsuit.
not quite 4.5-1, but quite a bit worse than 2-1
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2205495
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as ah 2s 3h - ac 5h 7d th
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 2s Ah 3h 317424 349201 149481 1318 209778 12748 4339 0.740
Ac 7d Th 5h 77468 149481 349201 1318 40437 182145 4339 0.260
>
> The point is that omaha8 is a very flop sensitive game.
> http://stuungar.blogspot.com
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 04:35:23
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: OH8 question
|
FellKnight wrote:
> > Nick Wool wrote:
> > > What is the best starting hand in OH8?
>
> That must be why I've never won any piece of a pot with AA23 ds :(
Me neither -- because I've never been dealt it!
However I've had pocket quads several times (which is more likely
than AA23ds but not by much)
To Nick - A223 and A233 are not great hands, the paired card
is basically dead (making bottom set in an O8 game is a recipe
for disaster unless you have made a low and are freerolling with it).
Similarly, a 32-flush is nothing but a trap hand.
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Date: 28 Nov 13:50:54
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: OH8 question
|
On Nov 28 2006 12:35 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> FellKnight wrote:
> > > Nick Wool wrote:
> > > > What is the best starting hand in OH8?
> >
> > That must be why I've never won any piece of a pot with AA23 ds :(
>
> Me neither -- because I've never been dealt it!
>
> However I've had pocket quads several times (which is more likely
> than AA23ds but not by much)
>
> To Nick - A223 and A233 are not great hands, the paired card
> is basically dead (making bottom set in an O8 game is a recipe
> for disaster unless you have made a low and are freerolling with it).
> Similarly, a 32-flush is nothing but a trap hand.
But if you do get the set, say 2s or 3s, surely you have the capcity to scoop?
A baby set might not be a great hand in OH8, but how many people play med pairs,
to crack you effort for high? You are either freerolling for the high, or at
least drawing for the nut low, with a reasonable chance of scooping. Is that
not better than chasing half the pot in either direction? The same goes for a
baby flush, though I do take your point that if there were no lows possible, a
baby set or a baby flush are not hands to be taken to war with any sort of great
conviction.
I am not too hot on OH8 as you can probably tell, or OH in general, but in the
rare situations where I do play low stakes PL OH 8 to relax after playing NL
holdem, I always follow one advice: Never go into battle chasing half the pot.
So I try to play hands with scoop posiblities only.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 05:37:57
From: xyious
Subject: Re: OH8 question
|
On Nov 28 2006 1:35 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> FellKnight wrote:
> > > Nick Wool wrote:
> > > > What is the best starting hand in OH8?
> >
> > That must be why I've never won any piece of a pot with AA23 ds :(
>
> Me neither -- because I've never been dealt it!
>
> However I've had pocket quads several times (which is more likely
> than AA23ds but not by much)
>
> To Nick - A223 and A233 are not great hands, the paired card
> is basically dead (making bottom set in an O8 game is a recipe
> for disaster unless you have made a low and are freerolling with it).
> Similarly, a 32-flush is nothing but a trap hand.
thank you for explaining better what i meant with my post !
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 15:21:19
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: OH8 question
|
Nick Wool wrote:
> Old Wolf wrote:
>> To Nick - A223 and A233 are not great hands, the paired card
>> is basically dead (making bottom set in an O8 game is a recipe
>> for disaster unless you have made a low and are freerolling with it).
>> Similarly, a 32-flush is nothing but a trap hand.
>
> But if you do get the set, say 2s or 3s, surely you have the capcity to scoop?
> A baby set might not be a great hand in OH8, but how many people play med pairs,
> to crack you effort for high? You are either freerolling for the high, or at
> least drawing for the nut low, with a reasonable chance of scooping.
When I say "not great hands", they are of course great hands,
I mean that they aren't in the same league as AA23. I'd rather
have A234 than A223: both for the counterfeit protection on low,
and for the straight potential. A wheel or a 6- or 7-high straight
draw is a far better "high half" than a set of deuces. I'd take the
flopped straight draw over the flopped set, because with the
set of 2s you always have the worst possible boat if the board pairs,
and it's rare for a board to not pair but there be no straight out,
in a loose game. When you do make the straight, you will get
paid off by people with worse straights, or sets.
> Is that not better than chasing half the pot in either direction?
There's the risk of being second-best in both directions -- or
second best high and 1/2 low; IMHO this is a very real one
when you have A223 and a 2 flops.
To me, the biggest benefit of A223 compared with A234 is that it
makes it less likely someone else has A2 , so the risk of quartering
is lower. (I still prefer A234 though).
> The same goes for a baby flush, though I do take your point that
> if there were no lows possible, a baby set or a baby flush are not
> hands to be taken to war with any sort of great conviction.
Yeah. Certainly , 2 suited babies are better than 2 unsuited
babies, but only just.
> I am not too hot on OH8 as you can probably tell, or OH in general, but in the
> rare situations where I do play low stakes PL OH 8 to relax after playing NL
> holdem,
Me neither. What I'm writing here is just my own experiences
of online play, it may not be applicable to other limits or other
styles of opponent, so take it with a grain of salt!
> I always follow one advice: Never go into battle chasing half the pot.
> So I try to play hands with scoop posiblities only.
The platinum rule :)
I find that in loose limit O8 games, having the low only is
fine; if the pot is four-way then you can get quartered and
still break even, so you make a profit those times when you
do get a full half or more.
I don't play a lot of PLO8 ring games but , as you say, I
wouldn't go into battle with low-only and perhaps the baby
set could be the edge in the PL game.
The PLO8 tourney is entirely different; in the $3 turbos
then you get enough people calling with crappy draws
or non-nut hands that you can show a profit by only
playing the low.
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