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Date: 14 Dec 2006 20:23:47
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Hey folks!
So the folks at Wise Hand agreed to publish my Doubling Deep poker
format under the GNU Public Documentation License! Instead of posting
all of my research on dealer protocols, tournament formats, and the
like (mostly useful to casinos), we'll save those for consulting gigs
and instead publish the basic rules set, free to use, free to
distribute unaltered.
It's available at:
http://www.wisehandpoker.com/articles/index.php?article=doubling-deep.html
and
http://www.geocities.com/rrauwl/index.html
Try it out at your next home game, let me know how you like it!
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Date: 15 Dec
From: Necron99
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Maybe I dont get it, but it seems the mechanics and intent of the doubling cube
are already present and inherent in poker.
In gammon, the cube is a decision point, play for double or quit. The added
skill being that successful use of the cube will increase your cash or points
win.
In poker simply betting accomplishes this.
This has none of the mechanics of cube play, all you're really saying here is
that the button, preflop can decide to double the betting limits until the turn?
You thought that was worth copyrighting?
On Dec 15 2006 3:23 PM, Bill Ricardi wrote:
> Hey folks!
>
> So the folks at Wise Hand agreed to publish my Doubling Deep poker
> format under the GNU Public Documentation License! Instead of posting
> all of my research on dealer protocols, tournament formats, and the
> like (mostly useful to casinos), we'll save those for consulting gigs
> and instead publish the basic rules set, free to use, free to
> distribute unaltered.
>
>
> It's available at:
>
> http://www.wisehandpoker.com/articles/index.php?article=doubling-deep.html
>
> and
>
> http://www.geocities.com/rrauwl/index.html
>
>
> Try it out at your next home game, let me know how you like it!
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 15 Dec
From: Gary Carson
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) publish
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On Dec 15 2006 12:08 AM, Necron99 wrote:
> You thought that was worth copyrighting?
Copyright doesn't give him any rights to control who does or does not play the
game.
Copyright is just the rights to the particular language he uses to describe the
rules. It doesn't grant him any ownership of the rules. Informaion can't be
copyrighted, just a particular format of expressing the information is
copyrightabloe.
Patent would give him rights to control who does or does not play the game, but
it's very doubtful that any variant of poker is patentable. Certainly not just
some simple rule to control blind sizes.
He doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>
>
> On Dec 15 2006 3:23 PM, Bill Ricardi wrote:
>
> > Hey folks!
> >
> > So the folks at Wise Hand agreed to publish my Doubling Deep poker
> > format under the GNU Public Documentation License! Instead of posting
> > all of my research on dealer protocols, tournament formats, and the
> > like (mostly useful to casinos), we'll save those for consulting gigs
> > and instead publish the basic rules set, free to use, free to
> > distribute unaltered.
> >
> >
> > It's available at:
> >
> > http://www.wisehandpoker.com/articles/index.php?article=doubling-deep.html
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/rrauwl/index.html
> >
> >
> > Try it out at your next home game, let me know how you like it!
>
>
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 02:21:38
From: sng
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) publish
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Gary Carson wrote:
>
>
> Patent would give him rights to control who does or does not play the game, but
> it's very doubtful that any variant of poker is patentable. Certainly not just
> some simple rule to control blind sizes.
>
> He doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
This guy thinks he can control who can and can not use a backgammon cube
while playing poker.
From his website:
> Note: Doubling Deep, and the use of the doubling cube in poker, is the intellectual property of Bill Ricardi in association with Wise Hand Poker.
and
> The GNU Free Documentation License means that anyone can use these rules for any commercial or non-commercial use, any time they want. In exchange, they simply must credit Bill Ricardi and Wise Hand Poker as the source of the document.
--
S. Doyle
doyles AT mountaincable DOT net
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 20:53:51
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Bill Ricardi wrote:
> [doubling cube poker]
I think it would be clearer if you referred to increasing the stakes or
the bet size instead of increasing the blind level without increasing
the blinds.
Can a player double and not raise?
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:56:44
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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"Bill Ricardi" <billricardi@googlemail.com > wrote in message
news:1166156627.524895.36320@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Hey folks!
>
> So the folks at Wise Hand agreed to publish my Doubling Deep poker
> format under the GNU Public Documentation License! Instead of posting
> all of my research on dealer protocols, tournament formats, and the
> like (mostly useful to casinos), we'll save those for consulting gigs
> and instead publish the basic rules set, free to use, free to
> distribute unaltered.
Good luck with that! Personally I think your idea is retarded
but it will be interesting to see how it turns out... keep us posted ;-)
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:29:50
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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David Nicoson wrote:
> OK. It does say "required" to put in 20.
>
> Do you play with a raise cap? If it's capped when action reaches the
> button, can he double?
Suggestion is 4 bets max as normal, and if it's capped then the button
can't put in the required raise, thus can't double. And as mentioned,
it can only be used pre-flop. So it's worth noting however that if the
button doubles, and there's a raise behind him, he can double again
when it comes back because it's still pre-flop and the table is still
under the cap.
I have full details of the suggested tournament rules and dealer
protocols in my consulting binder, but you shouldn't need them for a
home game. You can pretty much fill in the blanks. Give it a shot.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:22:50
From: Backslider23
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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On Dec 14 2006 11:23 PM, Bill Ricardi wrote:
> Hey folks!
>
> So the folks at Wise Hand agreed to publish my Doubling Deep poker
> format under the GNU Public Documentation License! Instead of posting
> all of my research on dealer protocols, tournament formats, and the
> like (mostly useful to casinos), we'll save those for consulting gigs
> and instead publish the basic rules set, free to use, free to
> distribute unaltered.
>
>
> It's available at:
>
> http://www.wisehandpoker.com/articles/index.php?article=doubling-deep.html
>
> and
>
> http://www.geocities.com/rrauwl/index.html
>
>
> Try it out at your next home game, let me know how you like it!
You need to go over the text again. It makes you sound like you don't
understand poker. It wouldn't give me any confidence in what you're
trying to sell (your consulting, or whatever).
Some examples of where you look stupid:
For example, at the 10/20 level (bets of 5 and 10 pre-flop), betting comes
around to the button. He doubles from 1 to 2, requiring him to put 20 in
the pot (base of 5, raise of 10, doubled).
At the 10/20 level, the bets are not 5 and 10 pre-flop. The bet size is
10 pre-flop. Period. The blinds are usually 5 and 10, but that is
different than bets. The whole "base of 5, raise of 10, doubled" just
sounds like gibberish. I have never heard a poker term called "base".
You sound like you don't have a clue.
Along a similar line:
The concept is simple on the surface. If you introduce a doubling cube to
limit hold’em, and let the cube’s count control the multiplier of the
current blind level as far as bets go
Again, makes no sense. At the 10/20 level, the blinds are 5/10. That
means "as far as bets go", they are already a multiple of 2 of the blinds.
So why would your cube start at 1, if the cube controls the multiplier of
"the current blind level".
If you're going to through the whole exercise of trying to assert IP
rights over your "presentation" of the game, don't make a half-assed
presentation.
At any rate, it doesn't sound fun or interesting to me. But that's just
my opinion.
Backslider
______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:51:32
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Bill Ricardi wrote:
> Really never thought twice about it, nor did anyone who proofread it.
> In limit, call or raise is often synonymous with call or bet.
No, it's not.
If you're playing LHE preflop and say "bet" when it's your turn, what
does that mean?
> The example with numbers pretty much spells it out.
OK. It does say "required" to put in 20.
Do you play with a raise cap? If it's capped when action reaches the
button, can he double?
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 08:57:39
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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David Nicoson wrote:
> Isn't it clearer if you write "a raise" instead of "the bet" here?
Really never thought twice about it, nor did anyone who proofread it.
In limit, call or raise is often synonymous with call or bet. The
example with numbers pretty much spells it out.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 08:52:43
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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David Nicoson wrote:
> Isn't it clearer if you write "a raise" instead of "the bet" here?
Really never thought twice about it, nor did anyone who proofread it.
In limit, call or raise is often synonymous with call or bet. The
example with numbers pretty much spells it out.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 07:02:44
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Bill Ricardi wrote:
> David Nicoson wrote:
> > Can a player double and not raise?
>
> No, this is clearly stated:
>
> "The button has control of the cube. They can only use it pre-flop.
> However, if they chose to use it, they must make the bet at the new
> limit."
Before the flop in a game with a blind, one can raise or call. He
can't bet.
Isn't it clearer if you write "a raise" instead of "the bet" here?
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 06:54:59
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Necron99 wrote:
> Maybe I dont get it, but it seems the mechanics and intent of the doubling cube
> are already present and inherent in poker.
They're already present in no-limit/pot limit poker, not in limit. And
no, it has nothing to do with backgammon's use of the cube, the intent
is much different.
In backgammon the use of the cube is to create a permanent increased
consequence to continue, or quit in a current position that will not
change until the game is over. In limit poker, you don't have the
option to quit, the 'position' is constantly in flux, and the increased
consequence is reset at periods.
You should try it to see what I mean.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 06:49:14
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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David Nicoson wrote:
> Bill Ricardi wrote:
> > [doubling cube poker]
>
> I think it would be clearer if you referred to increasing the stakes or
> the bet size instead of increasing the blind level without increasing
> the blinds.
>
> Can a player double and not raise?
No, this is clearly stated:
"The button has control of the cube. They can only use it pre-flop.
However, if they chose to use it, they must make the bet at the new
limit."
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 18:42:13
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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phlash74 wrote:
> Kill games are hardly new. All you're doing is making the condition
> for the kill the whim of the player on the button.
The dynamics of this are very different from kills and overs. Try it
out, you'll see a huge difference once you get a cube up to 16 with a
maniac on your right, with another 30 minutes to go before you're
rescued by the next level.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 18:34:47
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Backslider23 wrote:
> On Dec 15 2006 2:52 PM, Bill Ricardi wrote:
>
> > Backslider23 wrote:
> >
> > > At the 10/20 level, the bets are not 5 and 10 pre-flop. The bet size is
> > > 10 pre-flop. Period. The blinds are usually 5 and 10, but that is
> > > different than bets. The whole "base of 5, raise of 10, doubled" just
> > > sounds like gibberish. I have never heard a poker term called "base".
> > > You sound like you don't have a clue.
> >
> > Wow. Maybe that's because 'base' is only a term you would use if a
> > multiplier was introduced? Nobody else had a problem understanding
> > this.
>
> You still don't get it. Your description says it is the 10/20 level.
Ah, I see. This was cribbed from the stud section, and I never changed
it. Fixed on the distribution page. I also clarified conditions where
you can double, get raised, and double again. Clarified some language.
http://www.geocities.com/rrauwl/index.html
> The fact that you're not getting this doesn't say much about either a)
> your understanding of limit hold 'em, or b) your ability to express
> yourself.
Instead of you saying "Hey, shouldn't it be 5/10 in this example?" You
went on and on about nothing at all in an attacking tone, so I just
tuned you out. Next time, be nice and you'll get a more reasonable
reply.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:19:40
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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On Dec 14, 8:23 pm, "Bill Ricardi" <billrica...@googlemail.com > wrote:
> Hey folks!
>
> So the folks at Wise Hand agreed to publish my Doubling Deep poker
> format under the GNU Public Documentation License! Instead of posting
> all of my research on dealer protocols, tournament formats, and the
> like (mostly useful to casinos), we'll save those for consulting gigs
> and instead publish the basic rules set, free to use, free to
> distribute unaltered.
>
> It's available at:
>
> http://www.wisehandpoker.com/articles/index.php?article=doubling-deep...
>
> and
>
> http://www.geocities.com/rrauwl/index.html
>
> Try it out at your next home game, let me know how you like it!
Kill games are hardly new. All you're doing is making the condition
for the kill the whim of the player on the button. That isn't really
new either, since there are lots of games with overs (where some of the
players can play for double stakes if they agree and are the only ones
remaining in the pot).
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 12:08:02
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Bill Ricardi wrote:
> Read what you just wrote. Multiplier of the current BLIND level. It's
> that simple. I mention 'as far as bets go', because the blinds
> themselves don't go up.
This is exactly why you shouldn't refer to the cube affecting the blind
level.
I think it's typical in a limit tournament to put emphasis on the size
of the bets rather than the blinds anyway. E.g., a 5/10 round has bets
of 5 on the flop and 10 on the turn.
I forget why I give a shit.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 11:52:33
From: Bill Ricardi
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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Backslider23 wrote:
> At the 10/20 level, the bets are not 5 and 10 pre-flop. The bet size is
> 10 pre-flop. Period. The blinds are usually 5 and 10, but that is
> different than bets. The whole "base of 5, raise of 10, doubled" just
> sounds like gibberish. I have never heard a poker term called "base".
> You sound like you don't have a clue.
Wow. Maybe that's because 'base' is only a term you would use if a
multiplier was introduced? Nobody else had a problem understanding
this.
> Along a similar line:
> The concept is simple on the surface. If you introduce a doubling cube to
> limit hold'em, and let the cube's count control the multiplier of the
> current blind level as far as bets go
>
> Again, makes no sense. At the 10/20 level, the blinds are 5/10. That
> means "as far as bets go", they are already a multiple of 2 of the blinds.
> So why would your cube start at 1, if the cube controls the multiplier of
> "the current blind level".
Read what you just wrote. Multiplier of the current BLIND level. It's
that simple. I mention 'as far as bets go', because the blinds
themselves don't go up. And I dedicate a paragraph to explain what
happens if the doubling cube were to raise the blinds themselves.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 12:46:58
From: Backslider23
Subject: Re: My new poker format (w/ doubling cube) published:
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On Dec 15 2006 2:52 PM, Bill Ricardi wrote:
> Backslider23 wrote:
>
> > At the 10/20 level, the bets are not 5 and 10 pre-flop. The bet size is
> > 10 pre-flop. Period. The blinds are usually 5 and 10, but that is
> > different than bets. The whole "base of 5, raise of 10, doubled" just
> > sounds like gibberish. I have never heard a poker term called "base".
> > You sound like you don't have a clue.
>
> Wow. Maybe that's because 'base' is only a term you would use if a
> multiplier was introduced? Nobody else had a problem understanding
> this.
You still don't get it. Your description says it is the 10/20 level.
That means bet size pre-flop is 10. (Presumably blinds of 5 and 10). So,
the "5" in this case is the small blind, and meaningless to any raise from
the button, whether there is a multiplier or not. In fact, the first
raise at the 10/20 level would be to 20 anyway, without a "multiplier".
The fact that you're not getting this doesn't say much about either a)
your understanding of limit hold 'em, or b) your ability to express
yourself.
Backslider
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