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Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:40:16
From: pokerchimp
Subject: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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I can't seem to get a hand history because it was a points tourney.
Satelite (cost about $3 in points 300) pays 9 seats & 10th gets 300 points
back
This is not a whine. I am posting about this because it has never
happened so obviously to me, and I want to learn how to defend against it.
Background...There are 14 players left and I am in 13th with about $3000.
Blinds are $1-200 It is folded to me on the button, and I go all in with
J6 suired. SB who is chipleader calls and shows AQ. Flop is 6AxxJ.
So he started berrating me and went on and on and on. I said something
that was probably stupid (like, my chip stack and position dictated the
play. how was I supposed to know you would wake up with a big hand). And
then he kept going on and on and I asked him if he still lived with his
mommy he was crying so much. And I knew he was right about the hand and
my defense was shit, but ok, it's over, why go on about it? Then he got
even worse, and you know how sensitive I am. I even shut chat off for a
bit.
Then we got down to 10 handed, 5 at 2 tables. I was in seat 8, he (his ID
on Absolute is Learnerem) was in seat 1 so he had positition on me. I was
in 7th or 8th, but the last 3 or 4 were pretty even with stacks under 5K.
The 2 lowest stacks were at my table along with the chip leader, to my
right, and learnerem with about $20k. The 2 seat was the lowest stack.
So when I had the button, learnerem was in the SB and the short stack was
in the BB.
At one point I built my stack up to about $6500, 3rd at the table and 7th
overall. Then I got AK in the SB. The button made it $1800 to go. What
is my play? I don't want to commit too
many chips before seeing the flop. Of course the flop was crap, checked
around, garbage on the turn, checked around, garbage on the river, I
check, learnerem bets $400, button folds. Too much in the pot although I
know I am beat I have to call. So now I was still in 3rd at the table and
8th overall, but not by much.
This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always fold
to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
$1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
calls w TT. IGHN
Of course, as soon as we got down to 10 people I knew what was going to
happen, because I knew exactly what kind of asshole this guy is. He's
probably a P5er. I am really annoyed at myself, because I let him get to
me, and I could not figure out a defense for his strategy.
Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a weak
girl I am.
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:43:29
From: number6
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> Are you actually saying that you gauge someone's play on FT based on the
> little picture they choose for themselves? I think I picked whatever the
> first one was...means absolutely nothing.
>
I agree there ... that's just silly ... One guy started making racial
slurs against Japanese ... and it took a long time to realize they were
directed at me ... though not Japanese I seem to have picked that
avatar ... i never have them turned on ... I find them distracting ...
and definitely mine didn't fit me at all ...
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 00:49:52
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
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On 11 Dec 2006 19:43:29 -0800, "number6" <snumber6@aol.com > wrote:
>Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>> Are you actually saying that you gauge someone's play on FT based on the
>> little picture they choose for themselves? I think I picked whatever the
>> first one was...means absolutely nothing.
>I agree there ... that's just silly ... One guy started making racial
>slurs against Japanese ... and it took a long time to realize they were
>directed at me ... though not Japanese I seem to have picked that
>avatar ... i never have them turned on ... I find them distracting ...
>and definitely mine didn't fit me at all ...
I like using the funky black guy just for the morons who call me
"nigger." But right now, I use the ATM.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:53:09
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:40:16 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com > wrote:
>This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
>out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
>learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
>more chips, I would fold.
If I'm in this situation, I become more selective about what I do play, but if
I play it at all, I jam and leave him no opportunity to mess with me. By more
selective I mean either high cards or suited connector suckout hands. Just
because he jams into me doesn't mean he'll call, but if he does, I want a little
bit of value to my hand.
Alternately, if I decide to do this but then get a monster, I just make my usual
raise instead and call his jam.
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Date: 11 Dec 22:08:22
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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On Dec 11 2006 9:53 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:40:16 -0800, "pokerchimp" wrote:
>
> >This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> >out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> >learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> >more chips, I would fold.
>
> If I'm in this situation, I become more selective about what I do play, but if
> I play it at all, I jam and leave him no opportunity to mess with me. By more
> selective I mean either high cards or suited connector suckout hands. Just
> because he jams into me doesn't mean he'll call, but if he does, I want a
> little
> bit of value to my hand.
>
> Alternately, if I decide to do this but then get a monster, I just make my
> usual
> raise instead and call his jam.
Why not just wait for a decent hand (AT+, QK, med pp) and try a trap raise
preflop, waiting for his jam? The way he was so predictable in his jam, you got
to fancy your chances. You had him on tilt and you failed to take advantage.
Silly girl.
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:20:51
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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On Mon, 11 Dec 06 22:08:22 GMT, Nick Wool <43079532@recpoker.com > wrote:
>On Dec 11 2006 9:53 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:40:16 -0800, "pokerchimp" wrote:
>> >This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
>> >out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
>> >learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
>> >more chips, I would fold.
>> If I'm in this situation, I become more selective about what I do play, but if
>> I play it at all, I jam and leave him no opportunity to mess with me. By more
>> selective I mean either high cards or suited connector suckout hands. Just
>> because he jams into me doesn't mean he'll call, but if he does, I want a
>> little
>> bit of value to my hand.
>> Alternately, if I decide to do this but then get a monster, I just make my
>> usual
>> raise instead and call his jam.
>Why not just wait for a decent hand (AT+, QK, med pp) and try a trap raise
>preflop, waiting for his jam? The way he was so predictable in his jam, you got
>to fancy your chances. You had him on tilt and you failed to take advantage.
>Silly girl.
You might not have time to sit around waiting for a hand. It might be necessary
to steal some blinds. The guy out to get you has simply made that more
dangerous for both of you. Now, either he's still playing reasonably decently,
in which case you will only be called by a real hand, or he really
is completely on tilt and will call with anything, and again, you want a hand
that will survive more often than his.
And while AT QK and so on are nice enough to find on the button in ordinary
circumstances, they're not hands I want to call off all my chips with. If I
don't intend to fold them to a jam I'm expecting, I'll just jam first. If he's
going to call with the crap he'll re-jam with, I'm in no worse shape than
I'd be in if I let him have his jollies, and if he'll fold, I'm happy too.
You're eventually going to have to dance with a guy like this. He's
an opportunity to double up, but you'd rather the time be of your choice,
and you'd rather your range be ahead of his. I think in most situations
you can at least be 60/40 on a tilted dumbass like this, and you should
go for any such chance (meaning against his range if not necessarily
the hand that you actually run into).
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:12:15
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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If I were playing for a money prize I would have jammed with my AK.
Instead I was playing not to be the next one out, and took a conservative
and weak approach. A lot of times we go in with AK it is only a coin
toss. I just didn't want to lose all my chips.
On Dec 11 2006 5:08 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 9:53 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:40:16 -0800, "pokerchimp" wrote:
> >
> > >This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> > >out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > >learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> > >more chips, I would fold.
> >
> > If I'm in this situation, I become more selective about what I do play,
but if
> > I play it at all, I jam and leave him no opportunity to mess with me. By
more
> > selective I mean either high cards or suited connector suckout hands. Just
> > because he jams into me doesn't mean he'll call, but if he does, I want a
> > little
> > bit of value to my hand.
> >
> > Alternately, if I decide to do this but then get a monster, I just make my
> > usual
> > raise instead and call his jam.
>
> Why not just wait for a decent hand (AT+, QK, med pp) and try a trap raise
> preflop, waiting for his jam? The way he was so predictable in his jam, you
got
> to fancy your chances. You had him on tilt and you failed to take
advantage.
> Silly girl.
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:22:35
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:12:15 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com > wrote:
>If I were playing for a money prize I would have jammed with my AK.
>Instead I was playing not to be the next one out, and took a conservative
>and weak approach. A lot of times we go in with AK it is only a coin
>toss. I just didn't want to lose all my chips.
Oh, I just noticed it was a super sat. Obviously, that changes things.
If you could fold to the money that would be just fine, too. If you
have to steal to live, though, you might be forced to open-jam
rather than just raise into your scumbag buddy.
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Date: 12 Dec 15:58:27
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 6:12 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> If I were playing for a money prize I would have jammed with my AK.
> Instead I was playing not to be the next one out, and took a conservative
> and weak approach. A lot of times we go in with AK it is only a coin
> toss. I just didn't want to lose all my chips.
You're right. In my comment for some reason I was thinking only 5 got seats. I
rescind my criticism for not jamming with AK. But in that case, I think you
should fold preflop rather than call if you don't want to race with it.
>
> On Dec 11 2006 5:08 PM, Nick Wool wrote:
>
> > On Dec 11 2006 9:53 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:40:16 -0800, "pokerchimp" wrote:
> > >
> > > >This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> > > >out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > > >learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> > > >more chips, I would fold.
> > >
> > > If I'm in this situation, I become more selective about what I do play,
> but if
> > > I play it at all, I jam and leave him no opportunity to mess with me. By
> more
> > > selective I mean either high cards or suited connector suckout hands. Just
> > > because he jams into me doesn't mean he'll call, but if he does, I want a
> > > little
> > > bit of value to my hand.
> > >
> > > Alternately, if I decide to do this but then get a monster, I just make my
> > > usual
> > > raise instead and call his jam.
> >
> > Why not just wait for a decent hand (AT+, QK, med pp) and try a trap raise
> > preflop, waiting for his jam? The way he was so predictable in his jam, you
> got
> > to fancy your chances. You had him on tilt and you failed to take
> advantage.
> > Silly girl.
>
>
> thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:47:33
From: xyious
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always fold
> to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is in the
bb.
then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up against
the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
> K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> calls w TT. IGHN
bad luck mostly.
> Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a weak
> girl I am.
you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 01:41:45
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a
|
It seems to me like the guy is playing position. He avoids playing out
out position with the guy behind him and he plays often in position
against you. He might have had a read on you or thought he could
outplay you, who knows? You could be a little tighter against him, since
he will play with you often. I would pick a good starting hand and raise
it a little bit bigger than I normally would. He is loose against you so
his range of hands dips down a little.
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Date: 12 Dec 15:13:12
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a
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On Dec 12 2006 1:41 AM, ben carr wrote:
> It seems to me like the guy is playing position. He avoids playing out
> out position with the guy behind him and he plays often in position
> against you. He might have had a read on you or thought he could
> outplay you, who knows? You could be a little tighter against him, since
> he will play with you often. I would pick a good starting hand and raise
> it a little bit bigger than I normally would. He is loose against you so
> his range of hands dips down a little.
If he's in the sb and she's on the button, he is not in position.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:49:59
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
> so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is in the
> bb.
> then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up against
> the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
This is the funniest fucking thing I've read in the last 30 seconds. Oh
my god. I can't wait until I get to your next post!
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:48:34
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always fold
> > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
>
> so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is in the
> bb.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad idea if
you want to win.
> then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up against
> the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
>
> > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
> > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> > calls w TT. IGHN
>
> bad luck mostly.
>
> > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a weak
> > girl I am.
>
> you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
>
> -Alexander Knopf
> http://www.xyious.com/?links
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
____________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:03:54
From: xyious
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't
figure
> > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always
fold
> > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
> >
> > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is in the
> > bb.
>
> I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad idea if
> you want to win.
just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's reraise.
>
> > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up against
> > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> >
> > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called
with
> > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> > > calls w TT. IGHN
> >
> > bad luck mostly.
> >
> > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a weak
> > > girl I am.
> >
> > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> >
> > -Alexander Knopf
> > http://www.xyious.com/?links
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:05:28
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 3:03 PM, xyious wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't
> figure
> > > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I
had
> > > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always
> fold
> > > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> > > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
> > >
> > > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is in
the
> > > bb.
> >
> > I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad idea if
> > you want to win.
>
> just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's reraise.
Folding is probably better yet. :)
>
> >
> > > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up against
> > > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> > >
> > > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called
> with
> > > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> > > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> > > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> > > > calls w TT. IGHN
> > >
> > > bad luck mostly.
> > >
> > > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a weak
> > > > girl I am.
> > >
> > > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> > >
> > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> >
> >
> > ~ MysteriAce
> >
> > "Ashes and diamonds
> > Foe and friend
> > We were all equal in the end"
>
>
> -Alexander Knopf
> http://www.xyious.com/?links
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
____________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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| | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:11:20
From: xyious
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 11:05 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 3:03 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't
> > figure
> > > > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > > > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I
> had
> > > > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always
> > fold
> > > > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> > > > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low
stack.
> > > >
> > > > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is in
> the
> > > > bb.
> > >
> > > I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad idea if
> > > you want to win.
> >
> > just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's reraise.
>
> Folding is probably better yet. :)
i disagree, respectfully. the bb is really short, and the sb folds to the
bb everytime. so in this case i'd think a limp was better, or a minraise.
>
> >
> > >
> > > > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up against
> > > > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> > > >
> > > > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called
> > with
> > > > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> > > > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count
and
> > > > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in,
he
> > > > > calls w TT. IGHN
> > > >
> > > > bad luck mostly.
> > > >
> > > > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a
weak
> > > > > girl I am.
> > > >
> > > > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> > > >
> > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > >
> > >
> > > ~ MysteriAce
> > >
> > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > Foe and friend
> > > We were all equal in the end"
> >
> >
> > -Alexander Knopf
> > http://www.xyious.com/?links
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
________________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:16:57
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 3:11 PM, xyious wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 11:05 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > On Dec 11 2006 3:03 PM, xyious wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > > On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > > > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't
> > > figure
> > > > > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I
raised,
> > > > > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since
I
> > had
> > > > > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would
always
> > > fold
> > > > > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less
than
> > > > > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low
> stack.
> > > > >
> > > > > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is
in
> > the
> > > > > bb.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad idea
if
> > > > you want to win.
> > >
> > > just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's reraise.
> >
> > Folding is probably better yet. :)
>
> i disagree, respectfully. the bb is really short, and the sb folds to the
> bb everytime. so in this case i'd think a limp was better, or a minraise.
Yeah, but the gist of her post was that the big stack was reraising every
time she opened from the button. Why would limping or min raising change
that? Wouldn't you still lose chips, but slower?
I'd think a better line would be to come in for a raise a few times, fold
to the reraise. Once they are totally conditioned to reraise you
confidently (not just out of spite, but out of habit), the next time you
open you have a hand that you go with. Then you double up.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up
against
> > > > > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I
called
> > > with
> > > > > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop
with
> > > > > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count
> and
> > > > > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in,
> he
> > > > > > calls w TT. IGHN
> > > > >
> > > > > bad luck mostly.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a
> weak
> > > > > > girl I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> > > > >
> > > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ~ MysteriAce
> > > >
> > > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > > Foe and friend
> > > > We were all equal in the end"
> > >
> > >
> > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> >
> >
> > ~ MysteriAce
> >
> > "Ashes and diamonds
> > Foe and friend
> > We were all equal in the end"
>
>
> -Alexander Knopf
> http://www.xyious.com/?links
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
-----
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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| | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:41:10
From: xyious
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 11:16 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 3:11 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Dec 11 2006 11:05 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > On Dec 11 2006 3:03 PM, xyious wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > > > > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and
couldn't
> > > > figure
> > > > > > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I
> raised,
> > > > > > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and
since
> I
> > > had
> > > > > > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would
> always
> > > > fold
> > > > > > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less
> than
> > > > > > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low
> > stack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie is
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > bb.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad
idea
> if
> > > > > you want to win.
> > > >
> > > > just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's
reraise.
> > >
> > > Folding is probably better yet. :)
> >
> > i disagree, respectfully. the bb is really short, and the sb folds to the
> > bb everytime. so in this case i'd think a limp was better, or a minraise.
>
> Yeah, but the gist of her post was that the big stack was reraising every
> time she opened from the button. Why would limping or min raising change
> that? Wouldn't you still lose chips, but slower?
yes but the point was whenever she would fold on the button, the sb would
fold to the shortstack. so i suggested limping, since when the sb now
raises the bb still loses the blind, you can fold your trash for one bb
loss.
> I'd think a better line would be to come in for a raise a few times, fold
> to the reraise. Once they are totally conditioned to reraise you
> confidently (not just out of spite, but out of habit), the next time you
> open you have a hand that you go with. Then you double up.
i agree. however when you never get anything worth playing after you
wasted a few raises you're in trouble.
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up
> against
> > > > > > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I
> called
> > > > with
> > > > > > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop
> with
> > > > > > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip
count
> > and
> > > > > > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all
in,
> > he
> > > > > > > calls w TT. IGHN
> > > > > >
> > > > > > bad luck mostly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what
a
> > weak
> > > > > > > girl I am.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ~ MysteriAce
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > > > Foe and friend
> > > > > We were all equal in the end"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > >
> > >
> > > ~ MysteriAce
> > >
> > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > Foe and friend
> > > We were all equal in the end"
> >
> >
> > -Alexander Knopf
> > http://www.xyious.com/?links
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
________________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:53:24
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
> yes but the point was whenever she would fold on the button, the sb would
> fold to the shortstack. so i suggested limping, since when the sb now
> raises the bb still loses the blind, you can fold your trash for one bb
> loss.
Please, really, I can't take it anymore. Make it stop.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________
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| | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:43:34
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 3:41 PM, xyious wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 11:16 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > On Dec 11 2006 3:11 PM, xyious wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 11 2006 11:05 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > > On Dec 11 2006 3:03 PM, xyious wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > > > > On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > > > > > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and
> couldn't
> > > > > figure
> > > > > > > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I
> > raised,
> > > > > > > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and
> since
> > I
> > > > had
> > > > > > > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would
> > always
> > > > > fold
> > > > > > > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less
> > than
> > > > > > > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low
> > > stack.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the shortie
is
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bb.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad
> idea
> > if
> > > > > > you want to win.
> > > > >
> > > > > just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's
> reraise.
> > > >
> > > > Folding is probably better yet. :)
> > >
> > > i disagree, respectfully. the bb is really short, and the sb folds to the
> > > bb everytime. so in this case i'd think a limp was better, or a minraise.
> >
> > Yeah, but the gist of her post was that the big stack was reraising every
> > time she opened from the button. Why would limping or min raising change
> > that? Wouldn't you still lose chips, but slower?
>
> yes but the point was whenever she would fold on the button, the sb would
> fold to the shortstack. so i suggested limping, since when the sb now
> raises the bb still loses the blind, you can fold your trash for one bb
> loss.
The fact that he was folding to the short stack wasn't the issue (correct
me if I'm wrong chimpette), it just underlined the fact that he was after
her, specifically.
> > I'd think a better line would be to come in for a raise a few times, fold
> > to the reraise. Once they are totally conditioned to reraise you
> > confidently (not just out of spite, but out of habit), the next time you
> > open you have a hand that you go with. Then you double up.
>
> i agree. however when you never get anything worth playing after you
> wasted a few raises you're in trouble.
She already made the raises and had to fold. Limping after that will just
bleed off more chips.
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up
> > against
> > > > > > > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I
> > called
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the
flop
> > with
> > > > > > > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip
> count
> > > and
> > > > > > > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all
> in,
> > > he
> > > > > > > > calls w TT. IGHN
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > bad luck mostly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about
what
> a
> > > weak
> > > > > > > > girl I am.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ~ MysteriAce
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > > > > Foe and friend
> > > > > > We were all equal in the end"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ~ MysteriAce
> > > >
> > > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > > Foe and friend
> > > > We were all equal in the end"
> > >
> > >
> > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> >
> >
> > ~ MysteriAce
> >
> > "Ashes and diamonds
> > Foe and friend
> > We were all equal in the end"
>
>
> -Alexander Knopf
> http://www.xyious.com/?links
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
________________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:07:59
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 5:43 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Dec 11 2006 3:41 PM, xyious wrote:
>
> > On Dec 11 2006 11:16 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > On Dec 11 2006 3:11 PM, xyious wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 11 2006 11:05 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 11 2006 3:03 PM, xyious wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 11 2006 10:48 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > > > > > > On Dec 11 2006 2:47 PM, xyious wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Dec 11 2006 9:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > > > > > > > > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and
> > couldn't
> > > > > > figure
> > > > > > > > > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I
> > > raised,
> > > > > > > > > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and
> > since
> > > I
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he
would
> > > always
> > > > > > fold
> > > > > > > > > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had
less
> > > than
> > > > > > > > > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the
low
> > > > stack.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > so you should limp whenever you're on the button and the
shortie
> is
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > bb.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a real bad
> > idea
> > > if
> > > > > > > you want to win.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > just figured it's better than raising, then folding to the sb's
> > reraise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Folding is probably better yet. :)
> > > >
> > > > i disagree, respectfully. the bb is really short, and the sb folds to
the
> > > > bb everytime. so in this case i'd think a limp was better, or a
minraise.
> > >
> > > Yeah, but the gist of her post was that the big stack was reraising every
> > > time she opened from the button. Why would limping or min raising change
> > > that? Wouldn't you still lose chips, but slower?
> >
> > yes but the point was whenever she would fold on the button, the sb would
> > fold to the shortstack. so i suggested limping, since when the sb now
> > raises the bb still loses the blind, you can fold your trash for one bb
> > loss.
>
> The fact that he was folding to the short stack wasn't the issue (correct
> me if I'm wrong chimpette), it just underlined the fact that he was after
> her, specifically.
Well, it was part of the issue. Neither of the shorties were gonna be
knocked out. He had a lot of control (he was a good player) and he was
gonna make sure I went out 10th. In retrospect I either should have
folded my AK or pushed when I had 6500. I know he would have folded his
56 to the original raiser, the button, who had him outchipped. I made the
right decision to play the hand, but in this case I should have overplayed
AK and pushed.
>
> > > I'd think a better line would be to come in for a raise a few times, fold
> > > to the reraise. Once they are totally conditioned to reraise you
> > > confidently (not just out of spite, but out of habit), the next time you
> > > open you have a hand that you go with. Then you double up.
> >
> > i agree. however when you never get anything worth playing after you
> > wasted a few raises you're in trouble.
>
> She already made the raises and had to fold. Limping after that will just
> bleed off more chips.
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > then you don't really care if the sb raises or folds, you're up
> > > against
> > > > > > > > the shortstack, and you don't lose much if the asshole raises.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB,
I
> > > called
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the
> flop
> > > with
> > > > > > > > > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip
> > count
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet
all
> > in,
> > > > he
> > > > > > > > > calls w TT. IGHN
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > bad luck mostly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about
> what
> > a
> > > > weak
> > > > > > > > > girl I am.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you're so weak. (sorry couldn't help myself)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > > > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~ MysteriAce
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > > > > > Foe and friend
> > > > > > > We were all equal in the end"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ~ MysteriAce
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > > > Foe and friend
> > > > > We were all equal in the end"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Alexander Knopf
> > > > http://www.xyious.com/?links
> > >
> > >
> > > ~ MysteriAce
> > >
> > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > Foe and friend
> > > We were all equal in the end"
> >
> >
> > -Alexander Knopf
> > http://www.xyious.com/?links
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
---
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| |
Date: 11 Dec 21:27:43
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
|
On Dec 11 2006 3:40 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> I can't seem to get a hand history because it was a points tourney.
> Satelite (cost about $3 in points 300) pays 9 seats & 10th gets 300 points
> back
>
> This is not a whine. I am posting about this because it has never
> happened so obviously to me, and I want to learn how to defend against it.
>
> Background...There are 14 players left and I am in 13th with about $3000.
> Blinds are $1-200 It is folded to me on the button, and I go all in with
> J6 suired. SB who is chipleader calls and shows AQ. Flop is 6AxxJ.
>
> So he started berrating me and went on and on and on. I said something
> that was probably stupid (like, my chip stack and position dictated the
> play. how was I supposed to know you would wake up with a big hand). And
> then he kept going on and on and I asked him if he still lived with his
> mommy he was crying so much. And I knew he was right about the hand and
> my defense was shit, but ok, it's over, why go on about it? Then he got
> even worse, and you know how sensitive I am. I even shut chat off for a
> bit.
First thing is, and I know it's easier to say than do, but you can't let him get
to you here. Just put up a smiley face, or say tyvm or seomthing like that.
Don't engage. Frankly, pushing with J6 (even J6s), with your stack wasn't
necessary. So you made a weak play and got away with it. Big deal. It
happens. You should feel lucky, not stupid.
>
> Then we got down to 10 handed, 5 at 2 tables. I was in seat 8, he (his ID
> on Absolute is Learnerem) was in seat 1 so he had positition on me. I was
> in 7th or 8th, but the last 3 or 4 were pretty even with stacks under 5K.
> The 2 lowest stacks were at my table along with the chip leader, to my
> right, and learnerem with about $20k. The 2 seat was the lowest stack.
> So when I had the button, learnerem was in the SB and the short stack was
> in the BB.
>
> At one point I built my stack up to about $6500, 3rd at the table and 7th
> overall. Then I got AK in the SB. The button made it $1800 to go. What
> is my play? I don't want to commit too
> many chips before seeing the flop.
I think this is a big mistake. AK is really hard to play out of position when
shortstacked. I would jam here, since you figure to be way ahead of the
button's range. You're getting called (since the button would have been one of
the shortstacks, right?), but that's probably good.
Of course the flop was crap, checked
> around, garbage on the turn, checked around, garbage on the river, I
> check, learnerem bets $400, button folds. Too much in the pot although I
> know I am beat I have to call.
Right, definitely have to call.
So now I was still in 3rd at the table and
> 8th overall, but not by much.
>
> This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> more chips, I would fold.
Against a player who's out to get you, you just can't bluff him off the pot. So
you shouldn't be raising the button unless you're willing to go with the hand.
Don't try to steal from the button, steal from the cut-off or even utg.
If I folded on the button, he would always fold
> to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
> Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
> K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> calls w TT. IGHN
Your call is certainly reasonable, I think, and I think you're going broke on
this hand no matter what, but I'd check the flop here, intending to c-r all-in.
Since he's out to get you, he'll bet any 2 big unimproved cards (or smaller pp)
here, probably, and you can get your money in. I don't think he has to call you
with, say, KQ once you jam though.
>
> Of course, as soon as we got down to 10 people I knew what was going to
> happen, because I knew exactly what kind of asshole this guy is. He's
> probably a P5er. I am really annoyed at myself, because I let him get to
> me, and I could not figure out a defense for his strategy.
>
> Please feel free to discuss including hurling insults about what a weak
> girl I am.
Nah, I just think you need to be less emotional about it. Even if he's being
really insulting, so what? He's insulting your poker game, not you as a
person. You have to get a little more detached and take advantage of your
opponents who can't control themselves. You can't let them throw you off too.
Steve
>
>
>
>
> thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:15:10
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a
|
pokerchimp wrote:
> This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always fold
> to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
> Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
> K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> calls w TT. IGHN
Actually, your only a "weak girl" (other dis-respective adjectives come
to mind) because this bothered you so much. From a meta standpoint you
are in great position.
You have executed what many try to do all the time. Whether you are
Daniel N, or Mike M. You have placed a user on tilt, so well, you know
EXACTLY how they are going to play.
In this case, it seems that what you have done is create an
over-aggressive player. Your play is now scripted out for you, and you
probably weren't too far off. You always won't beat this guy, but you
should be able to place yourself in really good shape.
A common case is some ol'guy (who would choose for himself the
ranger/cowboy icon at full-tilt), who gets sucked out on by a flush
draw. YOU KNOW the next time that they are on a flush draw, they will
pay TOO much to call it down, with the hope of getting their karmic revenge.
Knowing this, I still don't think middle pair is good enough. You have
full control of this. For instance, he would have probably called you
with only middle pair.
But, it raises the interesting question here, is what happens when the
meta-game has changed enough (even if you change it yourself), that it
takes you out of your normal game. The key is to keep your own ego in
check to recognize it, and come up with a playbook that will take
advantage of the greater mistakes of your opponents. And hopefully that
should give you enough of an edge to be profitable. And as you have
learned, short-term is not the measure as in this case.
You probably did have an accurate read on the situation. He just won
this time, and you should have learned to be better at this, the next time..
|
| | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:28:36
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Dec 11 2006 1:15 PM, johnny T wrote:
> pokerchimp wrote:
>
> > This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> > out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> > learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> > more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always fold
> > to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> > $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
> > Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
> > K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> > based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> > the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> > calls w TT. IGHN
>
> Actually, your only a "weak girl" (other dis-respective adjectives come
> to mind) because this bothered you so much. From a meta standpoint you
> are in great position.
>
> You have executed what many try to do all the time. Whether you are
> Daniel N, or Mike M. You have placed a user on tilt, so well, you know
> EXACTLY how they are going to play.
>
> In this case, it seems that what you have done is create an
> over-aggressive player. Your play is now scripted out for you, and you
> probably weren't too far off. You always won't beat this guy, but you
> should be able to place yourself in really good shape.
>
> A common case is some ol'guy (who would choose for himself the
> ranger/cowboy icon at full-tilt), who gets sucked out on by a flush
> draw. YOU KNOW the next time that they are on a flush draw, they will
> pay TOO much to call it down, with the hope of getting their karmic revenge.
>
Are you actually saying that you gauge someone's play on FT based on the
little picture they choose for themselves? I think I picked whatever the
first one was...means absolutely nothing.
> Knowing this, I still don't think middle pair is good enough. You have
> full control of this. For instance, he would have probably called you
> with only middle pair.
>
> But, it raises the interesting question here, is what happens when the
> meta-game has changed enough (even if you change it yourself), that it
> takes you out of your normal game. The key is to keep your own ego in
> check to recognize it, and come up with a playbook that will take
> advantage of the greater mistakes of your opponents. And hopefully that
> should give you enough of an edge to be profitable. And as you have
> learned, short-term is not the measure as in this case.
>
> You probably did have an accurate read on the situation. He just won
> this time, and you should have learned to be better at this, the next time..
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:06:47
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> Are you actually saying that you gauge someone's play on FT based on the
> little picture they choose for themselves? I think I picked whatever the
> first one was...means absolutely nothing.
First, you do realize that it DOES mean something that you chose the
first one, without caring?
But, no, erm, some.
Still I have made many observations, created some stereotypes, and
mapped people from live play to online icons and vice verse. (Not all
are as seen, but still). And personalities *are* projected in play and
appearance. It is very rare to find one that you cannot find the
correlation, or purposeful deviation.
That flush case, may be more common than I believe, but I have seen it
so many times live, by these type of folk, that I count on it. Either
for myself or others. And yes, it is by people that are those
ranger/cowboy types... Mostly I map the stereotype that is portrayed to
people in real life, than I do the other around. But I urge you to
think about my first paragraph, and let you think about the play
stereotypes that people make when choosing their avatar.
Same as names. All caps, aggressive names, sex-swappers, flirters, 420
advocates, cry-babies, teachers, poker-puns... Either right-on, or
purposely chosen opposites. Both of which are readable traits.
I also think they are more meaningful if they are selected from a large
enough, yet finite pool, like at full-tilt. Restriction of choice also
provides information.
You don't believe that the full-tilt characters are random do you?
That there are no play attributes to the characters at all? Wow.
And you may not use these observations on appearance, to map to play.
That is ok. Most don't. I may be wrong. I don't believe so.
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:23:34
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Dec 11 2006 2:06 PM, johnny T wrote:
> Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> >
> > Are you actually saying that you gauge someone's play on FT based on the
> > little picture they choose for themselves? I think I picked whatever the
> > first one was...means absolutely nothing.
>
> First, you do realize that it DOES mean something that you chose the
> first one, without caring?
Maybe I'm in the deep minority here, but on most online gamerooms I turn
off chat and icons, so all I see is circles and don't hear the whining
people do.
What I'd REALLY like to see is a switch from the round table with chairs
paradigm to something more suited for a computer (UB is on the right track
with the mini-tables, but even that can be confusing. Seriously, I'm not
playing at a real table, why does it have to look like a real table?
>
> But, no, erm, some.
>
> Still I have made many observations, created some stereotypes, and
> mapped people from live play to online icons and vice verse. (Not all
> are as seen, but still). And personalities *are* projected in play and
> appearance. It is very rare to find one that you cannot find the
> correlation, or purposeful deviation.
>
> That flush case, may be more common than I believe, but I have seen it
> so many times live, by these type of folk, that I count on it. Either
> for myself or others. And yes, it is by people that are those
> ranger/cowboy types... Mostly I map the stereotype that is portrayed to
> people in real life, than I do the other around. But I urge you to
> think about my first paragraph, and let you think about the play
> stereotypes that people make when choosing their avatar.
>
> Same as names. All caps, aggressive names, sex-swappers, flirters, 420
> advocates, cry-babies, teachers, poker-puns... Either right-on, or
> purposely chosen opposites. Both of which are readable traits.
>
> I also think they are more meaningful if they are selected from a large
> enough, yet finite pool, like at full-tilt. Restriction of choice also
> provides information.
>
> You don't believe that the full-tilt characters are random do you?
> That there are no play attributes to the characters at all? Wow.
>
> And you may not use these observations on appearance, to map to play.
> That is ok. Most don't. I may be wrong. I don't believe so.
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
-----
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:54:51
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> Maybe I'm in the deep minority here, but on most online gamerooms I turn
> off chat and icons, so all I see is circles and don't hear the whining
> people do.
So other than betting you believe there is little, none, or negative
value from chat and icons.
Personally, and I am hoping I am in the deep minority here, the
cacophony of information that is available == money, and makes play
easier and not harder.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:21:18
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Dec 11 2006 2:54 PM, johnny T wrote:
> Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> > Maybe I'm in the deep minority here, but on most online gamerooms I turn
> > off chat and icons, so all I see is circles and don't hear the whining
> > people do.
>
> So other than betting you believe there is little, none, or negative
> value from chat and icons.
>
> Personally, and I am hoping I am in the deep minority here, the
> cacophony of information that is available == money, and makes play
> easier and not harder.
Yeah, I think it is all superfluous. Half the people on stars have
pictures of their babies. What does it mean? It means they have a baby.
A bunch have the blue trees. What does it mean? Either they are too
stupid to find a better picture or they just don't give a crap and picked
that one. Don't read too much into that stuff. Chat? Whiny crybaby
stuff. Total waste of time to read most of it or read anything into it.
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:28:33
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:21:18 -0800, "Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster"
<ae2dad2@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
>Yeah, I think it is all superfluous. Half the people on stars have
>pictures of their babies. What does it mean? It means they have a baby.
>A bunch have the blue trees. What does it mean? Either they are too
>stupid to find a better picture or they just don't give a crap and picked
>that one. Don't read too much into that stuff. Chat? Whiny crybaby
>stuff. Total waste of time to read most of it or read anything into it.
It's not worth anything to know that the guy in seat 3 has been ranting
like a lunatic for the past ten minutes about a beat and that his emotional
state is affecting his play?
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 01:02:32
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:jrtrn25h56ivtncop4oql3lq2tfdac7lam@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:21:18 -0800, "Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster"
> <ae2dad2@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, I think it is all superfluous. Half the people on stars have
>>pictures of their babies. What does it mean? It means they have a baby.
>>A bunch have the blue trees. What does it mean? Either they are too
>>stupid to find a better picture or they just don't give a crap and picked
>>that one. Don't read too much into that stuff. Chat? Whiny crybaby
>>stuff. Total waste of time to read most of it or read anything into it.
>
> It's not worth anything to know that the guy in seat 3 has been ranting
> like a lunatic for the past ten minutes about a beat and that his
> emotional
> state is affecting his play?
That is worth something, agreed. But so is the inner peace gained by
avoiding the need to read such crap. Your mission, should you choose to
accept it, is to decide the relative merits of one over the other :-)
Palooka
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 17:18:31
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Dec 11 2006 5:02 PM, Palooka wrote:
> "A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo> wrote in message
> news:jrtrn25h56ivtncop4oql3lq2tfdac7lam@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:21:18 -0800, "Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster"
> > <ae2dad2@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>Yeah, I think it is all superfluous. Half the people on stars have
> >>pictures of their babies. What does it mean? It means they have a baby.
> >>A bunch have the blue trees. What does it mean? Either they are too
> >>stupid to find a better picture or they just don't give a crap and picked
> >>that one. Don't read too much into that stuff. Chat? Whiny crybaby
> >>stuff. Total waste of time to read most of it or read anything into it.
> >
> > It's not worth anything to know that the guy in seat 3 has been ranting
> > like a lunatic for the past ten minutes about a beat and that his
> > emotional
> > state is affecting his play?
>
> That is worth something, agreed. But so is the inner peace gained by
> avoiding the need to read such crap. Your mission, should you choose to
> accept it, is to decide the relative merits of one over the other :-)
>
Yeah, that is all I was trying to say. I just don't need to read that
stuff, it doesn't help me.
> Palooka
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
____________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 17:39:10
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> Yeah, that is all I was trying to say. I just don't need to read that
> stuff, it doesn't help me.
You shouldn't say it in the fashion: "YOUR WRONG TO THINK THAT IS TRUE
IF YOU BELIEVE IT. IT NEVER HELPS ME SO EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG.
YOU COULD NEVER READ ME, SO YOUR WRONG."
Now we have that it may have value, and quiet is worth more to me.
Which is fair enough.
For me, it provides a lot of value. All of the time. And it is only
the automated observer chat I am not paying attention to.
And honestly, really, I hope you all believe him, and choose not to
believe me. Keep doing EXACTLY what you have been doing. I'll be watching.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:08:42
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
"johnny T" <Nobody@home.com > wrote in message
news:457e0843$0$81351$ae4e5890@news.nationwide.net...
> Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah, that is all I was trying to say. I just don't need to read that
>> stuff, it doesn't help me.
>
> You shouldn't say it in the fashion: "YOUR WRONG TO THINK THAT IS TRUE IF
> YOU BELIEVE IT. IT NEVER HELPS ME SO EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG. YOU
> COULD NEVER READ ME, SO YOUR WRONG."
>
> Now we have that it may have value, and quiet is worth more to me. Which
> is fair enough.
>
> For me, it provides a lot of value. All of the time. And it is only the
> automated observer chat I am not paying attention to.
>
> And honestly, really, I hope you all believe him, and choose not to
> believe me. Keep doing EXACTLY what you have been doing. I'll be
> watching.
>
Sorry, I didn't see that, since I have turned off my chat. But I expect that
a fair proportion of it was written in capital letters, which tend to give
me a headache.
Palooka
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:49:44
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> Yeah, I think it is all superfluous. Half the people on stars have
> pictures of their babies. What does it mean?
Change all of that to: Here is a finite set of pictures and expressions
that will represent you at the table. You get to choose. For a Million
Points we'll make a custom one of you. Otherwise you choose. Go
ahead... AKA Full Tilt
Guess what? Tons of meaning. Worth money?
> Chat? Whiny crybaby stuff.
> Total waste of time to read most of it or read anything into it.
You were following that thread where Pokerchimp puts this guy on tilt?
You know the one that happened in chat? Worth money?
Out of all of this do you think anyone else pays attention to chat? Now
here is the important question: Worth money?
Your right though, no book. Must not be worth a dime.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:40:14
From: Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Dec 11 2006 3:49 PM, johnny T wrote:
> Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I think it is all superfluous. Half the people on stars have
> > pictures of their babies. What does it mean?
>
> Change all of that to: Here is a finite set of pictures and expressions
> that will represent you at the table. You get to choose. For a Million
> Points we'll make a custom one of you. Otherwise you choose. Go
> ahead... AKA Full Tilt
>
> Guess what? Tons of meaning. Worth money?
>
>
> > Chat? Whiny crybaby stuff.
> > Total waste of time to read most of it or read anything into it.
>
> You were following that thread where Pokerchimp puts this guy on tilt?
> You know the one that happened in chat? Worth money?
>
> Out of all of this do you think anyone else pays attention to chat? Now
> here is the important question: Worth money?
>
> Your right though, no book. Must not be worth a dime.
Personally I think you are putting more stake in this stuff than you
should. It might be worth something from some people, but I guarantee you
that my username/icon/chat isn't going to help you. First of all, I
usually (now) go by my real name. Secondly, if I can pick an icon of my
choosing, it is a picture of me (at a poker table). Finally, I never,
ever, say anything in chat that could be construed that I'm on tilt,
UNLESS I WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT.
Be careful what you believe, it may not be worth believing.
In a live tourney the other day I had A6 in the BB. Nobody raised, a
couple limpers. Flop came KQ6 rainbow. Check around. Turn is another 6.
Check around to a late position player, who bets about the size of the
pot. I call, all others fold. River inconsequential. I bet out the size
of the pot. The other player kind of goes into the tank. Just for the
hell of it I say "I just hope you don't have the king." Another player at
the table laughs out loud at this comment, but the player who was thinking
decides to call my bet with QT. Pretty simplistic and silly, since
anybody could have read right through this comment, except, I guess the
guy I was up against.
------
brewmaster at brewcam dot com
"Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if
you look at it right" -RH
______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 17:08:06
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> Personally I think you are putting more stake in this stuff than you
> should. It might be worth something from some people, but I guarantee you
> that my username/icon/chat isn't going to help you. First of all, I
> usually (now) go by my real name. Secondly, if I can pick an icon of my
> choosing, it is a picture of me (at a poker table). Finally, I never,
> ever, say anything in chat that could be construed that I'm on tilt,
> UNLESS I WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT.
And you may be a perfect poker player that is 100% non-readable. I
won't be at your table if I can help it. But experience has shown me,
and should show you, even though you ignore the apocryphal story below,
that people are carelessly readable all over the place. And to say,
well you can't read me, therefor you can't read anyone, is just silly.
And wrong.
> Be careful what you believe, it may not be worth believing.
I am ALWAYS examining my beliefs. This has actually led to better trust
of them, than less. And more money than not. And often I have had to
redo them. But I think it is amazing if you can understand a persons
desire to make mistakes and why.
>
> In a live tourney the other day I had A6 in the BB. Nobody raised, a
> couple limpers. Flop came KQ6 rainbow. Check around. Turn is another 6.
> Check around to a late position player, who bets about the size of the
> pot. I call, all others fold. River inconsequential. I bet out the size
> of the pot. The other player kind of goes into the tank. Just for the
> hell of it I say "I just hope you don't have the king." Another player at
> the table laughs out loud at this comment, but the player who was thinking
> decides to call my bet with QT. Pretty simplistic and silly, since
> anybody could have read right through this comment, except, I guess the
> guy I was up against.
See... == MONEY. I don't understand the desire to be the blind monk.
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 22:13:34
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
On Dec 11 2006 5:06 PM, johnny T wrote:
> Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
>
> >
> > Are you actually saying that you gauge someone's play on FT based on the
> > little picture they choose for themselves? I think I picked whatever the
> > first one was...means absolutely nothing.
>
> First, you do realize that it DOES mean something that you chose the
> first one, without caring?
>
> But, no, erm, some.
>
> Still I have made many observations, created some stereotypes, and
> mapped people from live play to online icons and vice verse. (Not all
> are as seen, but still). And personalities *are* projected in play and
> appearance. It is very rare to find one that you cannot find the
> correlation, or purposeful deviation.
>
> That flush case, may be more common than I believe, but I have seen it
> so many times live, by these type of folk, that I count on it. Either
> for myself or others. And yes, it is by people that are those
> ranger/cowboy types... Mostly I map the stereotype that is portrayed to
> people in real life, than I do the other around. But I urge you to
> think about my first paragraph, and let you think about the play
> stereotypes that people make when choosing their avatar.
>
> Same as names. All caps, aggressive names, sex-swappers, flirters, 420
> advocates, cry-babies, teachers, poker-puns... Either right-on, or
> purposely chosen opposites. Both of which are readable traits.
>
> I also think they are more meaningful if they are selected from a large
> enough, yet finite pool, like at full-tilt. Restriction of choice also
> provides information.
>
> You don't believe that the full-tilt characters are random do you?
> That there are no play attributes to the characters at all? Wow.
>
> And you may not use these observations on appearance, to map to play.
> That is ok. Most don't. I may be wrong. I don't believe so.
Wow, man, you, love, commas.
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:37:28
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
|
steve1127 wrote:
> Wow, man, you, love, commas.
You, love, riding, my, ass...
But thanks for the comment!
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 11 Dec 22:43:58
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
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On Dec 11 2006 5:37 PM, johnny T wrote:
> steve1127 wrote:
>
> > Wow, man, you, love, commas.
>
> You, love, riding, my, ass...
>
> But thanks for the comment!
Heh. I did compliment your analysis in the other thread.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:06:21
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
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steve1127 wrote:
>
> On Dec 11 2006 5:37 PM, johnny T wrote:
>
>> steve1127 wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, man, you, love, commas.
>> You, love, riding, my, ass...
>>
>> But thanks for the comment!
>
> Heh. I did compliment your analysis in the other thread.
Yeah, but this was a pure grammar flame. And a pretty darn picky one at
that.
No comment on the content. Just flame...
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Date: 12 Dec
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not aWhine
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On Dec 11 2006 6:06 PM, johnny T wrote:
> steve1127 wrote:
> >
> > On Dec 11 2006 5:37 PM, johnny T wrote:
> >
> >> steve1127 wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wow, man, you, love, commas.
> >> You, love, riding, my, ass...
> >>
> >> But thanks for the comment!
> >
> > Heh. I did compliment your analysis in the other thread.
>
> Yeah, but this was a pure grammar flame. And a pretty darn picky one at
> that.
>
> No comment on the content. Just flame...
True. OK. As for the content? I agree with you on the chat, and maybe the
names, and certainly the pictures on Stars (for instance, picture of a character
from Rounders = over aggro donkey 9 times out of 10.) I dunno about the Full
Tilt icon, but that's mainly because I think they're distracting, and play
without them. I don't even know what mine is.
As for the grammar flame...I was feeling annoyed that I was at work. No harm
meant.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:52:55
From:
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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pokerchimp wrote:
>> This is what happened over next. I knew it was coming and couldn't figure
> out what to do. If it was folded to me on the Button, and I raised,
> learnerem would come over the top and the BB would fold, and since I had
> more chips, I would fold. If I folded on the button, he would always fold
> to the BB, even when he had over 20,000 and the 2 seat had less than
> $1000. He did one or the other every round until I was the low stack.
> Then, when I was in the BB, he just opened for twice the BB, I called with
> K8 suited, which I thought was a reasonable hand to see the flop with
> based on the situation (I wish I could remember my exact chip count and
> the blinds b4 this hand but I can't) . Flop is T85. I bet all in, he
> calls w TT. IGHN
i guess it comes down to you have to stop making positional raises vs
his SB until you have a hand you are willing to make a stand with.
given the circumstances, that probably wouldnt have to be as good as
you might think, since he is doing it every time.
AA
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:48:18
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: I just got totally owned and humiliated in a tourney. Not a Whine
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This does suck and you have to TRY to overcome it like everyone says,
but I know how hard that is. Maybe get up walk for a few minutes. DO
whatever you have to to try and forget about everything that is
interferring.
Also PLEASE donot use the term OWN. God I hate that expression
especially when someone calls an all in with crap then boasts about
owing you or ownage. GOD I HATE THAT EXPRESSION!!!!!
No offense just my take.
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