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Date: 09 Dec 2006 14:35:21
From: floppin trips
Subject: How bad of a laydown?
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Situation: 100 buy-in live tourney. My stack is at 1800, blinds are
100/200 and I'm
in cut-off. This is fast structure - my stack is above avg and I'm down
to 9 BB.
Loose player in EP raises to 600. He's been in a lot of pots and made
some loose calls but so far it's worked as he's around
3000 - 3500.
Player B calls 600, a substantial portion of his stack (more than 1/2).
It
folds to me and I look down at 99. I deliberate and decide to fold,
thinking if I push both the loose EP and Player B will call (B is pot
committed and I was certain loose EP would also call, and there were
still
active players behind me). I didn't want to be in situation where I'm
facing 3-4 overcards.
Hand played out as follows: BB also calls 600 putting him all in - he
turns out to have Aces. Loose EP leads out on flop and
player B ends up turning flush and BB end up rivering a better flush.
Loose
EP had 66. If I stay I flop a full and make big score putting me in
great
shape. Needless to say I was sick watching the action.
Ignoring the result did I make bad laydown?
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 16:24:04
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: How bad of a laydown?
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On Dec 9, 2:35 pm, "floppin trips" <paul.huss...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Situation: 100 buy-in live tourney. My stack is at 1800, blinds are
> 100/200 and I'm
> in cut-off. This is fast structure - my stack is above avg and I'm down
> to 9 BB.
>
> Loose player in EP raises to 600. He's been in a lot of pots and made
> some loose calls but so far it's worked as he's around
> 3000 - 3500.
>
> Player B calls 600, a substantial portion of his stack (more than 1/2).
> It
> folds to me and I look down at 99. I deliberate and decide to fold,
> thinking if I push both the loose EP and Player B will call (B is pot
> committed and I was certain loose EP would also call, and there were
> still
> active players behind me). I didn't want to be in situation where I'm
> facing 3-4 overcards.
>
> Hand played out as follows: BB also calls 600 putting him all in - he
> turns out to have Aces. Loose EP leads out on flop and
> player B ends up turning flush and BB end up rivering a better flush.
> Loose
> EP had 66. If I stay I flop a full and make big score putting me in
> great
> shape. Needless to say I was sick watching the action.
>
> Ignoring the result did I make bad laydown?
I don't think it's a bad laydown, if you could go headsup with the
loose EP great, but I don't really like 99 against two players. I'm
pretty sure if the 9 hadn't come and you wouldn't have made a full
house you wouldn't give this a second thought, especially when the BB
turned over AA. Even discounting this, you would have been up against
Player B's overcards and also fading a 6. Unless you have JJ or better
or AK, I'd much rather be the pusher than the caller all-in.
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Date: 09 Dec 23:25:01
From: TheFleece
Subject: Re: How bad of a laydown?
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On Dec 10 2006 8:35 AM, floppin trips wrote:
> Situation: 100 buy-in live tourney. My stack is at 1800, blinds are
> 100/200 and I'm
> in cut-off. This is fast structure - my stack is above avg and I'm down
> to 9 BB.
>
> Loose player in EP raises to 600. He's been in a lot of pots and made
> some loose calls but so far it's worked as he's around
> 3000 - 3500.
>
> Player B calls 600, a substantial portion of his stack (more than 1/2).
> It
> folds to me and I look down at 99. I deliberate and decide to fold,
> thinking if I push both the loose EP and Player B will call (B is pot
> committed and I was certain loose EP would also call, and there were
> still
> active players behind me). I didn't want to be in situation where I'm
> facing 3-4 overcards.
>
> Hand played out as follows: BB also calls 600 putting him all in - he
> turns out to have Aces. Loose EP leads out on flop and
> player B ends up turning flush and BB end up rivering a better flush.
> Loose
> EP had 66. If I stay I flop a full and make big score putting me in
> great
> shape. Needless to say I was sick watching the action.
>
> Ignoring the result did I make bad laydown?
There's no point in discussing the merit of particular plays in crapshoot
tournaments. You choose your moment to commit and:
a) Hope you have the best hand
b) Hope that it doesn't get sucked out on
This type of tournament does not reward skill, it is perversion of everything
that makes poker great.
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 15:13:59
From: floppin trips
Subject: Re: How bad of a laydown?
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Nick Wool wrote:
> Easy jam if the EP raise did not pick up a caller...once he had a caller, easy
> fold or marginal call, depending on table conditions.
>
Over the felt I had same line of reasoning but in aftermath I'm
thinking I made terrible play. Given blind structure it was turning
into a crapshoot anyway, so why not roll the dice then and there? One
of my opponents could easily have an underpair to my 99 (which turned
out to be the case) so I'd be almost 50% to triple up.
In a crapshoot shouldn't I take a 50% shot to triple up? If I fold
the blinds will soon be 200-400 and I may never see a better situation.
In a tourney with more play I think a fold is more clear, but in a
luckfest shouldn't I be pushing? I'm still not sure what correct
answer is from tourney equity point of view.
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Date: 09 Dec 22:50:21
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: How bad of a laydown?
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Easy jam if the EP raise did not pick up a caller...once he had a caller, easy
fold or marginal call, depending on table conditions.
On Dec 9 2006 10:35 PM, floppin trips wrote:
> Situation: 100 buy-in live tourney. My stack is at 1800, blinds are
> 100/200 and I'm
> in cut-off. This is fast structure - my stack is above avg and I'm down
> to 9 BB.
>
> Loose player in EP raises to 600. He's been in a lot of pots and made
> some loose calls but so far it's worked as he's around
> 3000 - 3500.
>
> Player B calls 600, a substantial portion of his stack (more than 1/2).
> It
> folds to me and I look down at 99. I deliberate and decide to fold,
> thinking if I push both the loose EP and Player B will call (B is pot
> committed and I was certain loose EP would also call, and there were
> still
> active players behind me). I didn't want to be in situation where I'm
> facing 3-4 overcards.
>
> Hand played out as follows: BB also calls 600 putting him all in - he
> turns out to have Aces. Loose EP leads out on flop and
> player B ends up turning flush and BB end up rivering a better flush.
> Loose
> EP had 66. If I stay I flop a full and make big score putting me in
> great
> shape. Needless to say I was sick watching the action.
>
> Ignoring the result did I make bad laydown?
_______________________________________________________________
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