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Main
Date: 15 Dec
From: CBedo
Subject: Help with JJ on the button
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playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot yet,
so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have 1980).
How would you play this?
I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending on
what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is now
340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking that he
could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the normal
low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The river
card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call, but
also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it down.
Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but the
odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call, and
sure enough he shows me AA.
Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me to
be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so maybe
he was happy.
My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the wrong
play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if he
reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly I've
given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing anything
stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
I'll take all the help I can get.
Thanks,
CBedo
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: 15 Dec
From: Kincaid
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
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As a rule, in NL play, I don't like to bet one pair on the river. There are
exceptions, but this is not one of those times.
I'd check.
On Dec 14 2006 10:44 PM, CBedo wrote:
>
> playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot
> yet,
> so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have
> 1980).
> How would you play this?
>
> I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending on
> what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
> flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is
> now
> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking
> that he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
> normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
> river
> card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
> small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call,
> but
> also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it
> down.
> Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but
> the
> odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call,
> and
> sure enough he shows me AA.
>
> Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me to
> be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so maybe
> he was happy.
>
> My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the wrong
> play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if he
> reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly I've
> given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
> lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing
> anything
> stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
>
> I'll take all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CBedo
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 08:42:13
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
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> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking
that he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
river
I don't like giving a free card here. I tend to check behind here quite a
bit, and I think it's a pretty big leak. I bet the turn, fully expect to
be check-gobbled, and proceed from there depending on my mood.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 07:51:55
From: ML
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
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CBedo wrote:
> playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot yet,
> so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have 1980).
> How would you play this?
>
> I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending on
> what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
> flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is now
> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking that he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The river
> card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
> small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call, but
> also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it down.
> Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but the
> odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call, and
> sure enough he shows me AA.
>
> Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me to
> be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so maybe
> he was happy.
>
> My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the wrong
> play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if he
> reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly I've
> given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
> lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing anything
> stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
>
> I'll take all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks,
I don't think you played poorly. Except the pre-flop betting, I think
I might have played it the same. Pre-flop, though, I am almost always
re-raising. I like to know how much he likes his hand earlier, while
it's cheaper. Then I can get away from my over-pair alot easier.
I like this player, though. Had you hit a hand, he'd have paid you off
for sure!
--
ML
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Date: 15 Dec 15:38:54
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
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On Dec 15 2006 1:44 AM, CBedo wrote:
>
> playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot
> yet,
> so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have
> 1980).
> How would you play this?
>
> I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending on
> what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
> flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is
> now
> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking
> that he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
> normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
> river
> card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
> small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call,
> but
> also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it
> down.
> Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but
> the
> odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call,
> and
> sure enough he shows me AA.
>
> Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me to
> be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so maybe
> he was happy.
>
> My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the wrong
> play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if he
> reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly I've
> given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
> lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing
> anything
> stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
>
> I'll take all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CBedo
I probably lose a little more here than you do. I think mixing calling and
raising on the button is fine. In this case, I think your flop bet is fine,
although I'd have bet a little more to try to dissuade AK from coming along.
165 in the pot, so I probably bet 120 or so. On the turn, if you had a read
that he had an overpair, then your check is fine. I probably bet again there,
planning to check behind on the river if he calls. Once you check the turn, I'm
not sure that there are many hands you beat that can call the river. AK could
call if he thinks you're on a bluff, but I tend to check the river.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:35:00
From: John B.
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
|
With his actions, there was no way you could've put him on AA. You could've
lost way more and did OK given the circumstances. Make a mental note of how
this went down and play on...
John B.
"CBedo" <pocketbullets@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:1166165068$922134@recpoker.com...
>
> playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot
yet,
> so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have
1980).
> How would you play this?
>
> I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending
on
> what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see
the
> flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot
is now
> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking that
he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely
has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is
the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
river
> card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150,
a
> small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to
call, but
> also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it
down.
> Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips,
but the
> odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I
call, and
> sure enough he shows me AA.
>
> Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to
me to
> be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so
maybe
> he was happy.
>
> My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the
wrong
> play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if
he
> reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly
I've
> given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit
(or
> lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing
anything
> stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
>
> I'll take all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CBedo
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 15 Dec
From: TheFleece
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
|
On Dec 15 2006 4:44 PM, CBedo wrote:
>
> playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot
> yet,
> so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have
> 1980).
> How would you play this?
>
> I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending on
> what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
> flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is
> now
> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking
> that he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
> normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
> river
> card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
> small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call,
> but
> also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it
> down.
> Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but
> the
> odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call,
> and
> sure enough he shows me AA.
>
> Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me to
> be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so maybe
> he was happy.
>
> My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the wrong
> play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if he
> reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly I've
> given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
> lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing
> anything
> stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
>
> I'll take all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CBedo
I like to use the old 'no set don't bet' strategy with Jacks but I don't think
it's wrong to lose money on them if you hold an overpair after the flop and you
bet it.
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Date: 15 Dec 22:17:35
From: CBedo
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
|
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all the help. This just shows you how
you can be so focused on one piece (for me, what to do preflop), that you
sometimes miss thinking about other possible issues (was the check on the turn
right, or betting the river).
Personally, I think that if I bet the turn, then it is probably just like the
sequence than ensued on the river, except I probably lay it down instead of
paying it off, and don't get to see the river card (which I know is only two
outs, but hey, it could happen). So I'm still inclined to check the turn, but
I'll have to think about it some more.
As far as the river, this one I'll have to think about. Maybe I should have
checked it down, and in a larger buy in event, proably would be the correct
event, but with 9 still around in a 20 dollar event, I don't think I can narrow
down the hands he would call with to so small a set, that he's only calling with
hands that beat me. I think we've all seen too many donkeys (such as myself,
lol) call this bet with ace high. But again, it is food for thought, and I
appreciate everyone's responses.
On Dec 14 2006 11:44 PM, CBedo wrote:
>
> playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot
> yet,
> so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have
> 1980).
> How would you play this?
>
> I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending on
> what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
> flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is
> now
> 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking
> that he
> could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
> normal
> low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
> river
> card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
> small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call,
> but
> also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it
> down.
> Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but
> the
> odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call,
> and
> sure enough he shows me AA.
>
> Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me to
> be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so maybe
> he was happy.
>
> My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the wrong
> play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if he
> reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly I've
> given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
> lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing
> anything
> stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
>
> I'll take all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CBedo
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Date: 15 Dec 22:23:18
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: Help with JJ on the button
|
On Dec 15 2006 5:17 PM, CBedo wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all the help. This just shows you
> how
> you can be so focused on one piece (for me, what to do preflop), that you
> sometimes miss thinking about other possible issues (was the check on the turn
> right, or betting the river).
>
> Personally, I think that if I bet the turn, then it is probably just like the
> sequence than ensued on the river, except I probably lay it down instead of
> paying it off, and don't get to see the river card (which I know is only two
> outs, but hey, it could happen). So I'm still inclined to check the turn, but
> I'll have to think about it some more.
If betting the turn lets you get away from an underpair cheaper than checking
and betting the river, then there's not much to think about -- it's a much
better play.
>
> As far as the river, this one I'll have to think about. Maybe I should have
> checked it down, and in a larger buy in event, proably would be the correct
> event, but with 9 still around in a 20 dollar event, I don't think I can
> narrow
> down the hands he would call with to so small a set, that he's only calling
> with
> hands that beat me. I think we've all seen too many donkeys (such as myself,
> lol) call this bet with ace high. But again, it is food for thought, and I
> appreciate everyone's responses.
>
> On Dec 14 2006 11:44 PM, CBedo wrote:
>
> >
> > playing a low limit (20 dollar) sitter at Stars. Only about 7 hands in, so
> > don't have too much info on anyone. UTG raises to 70 (hasn't played a pot
> > yet,
> > so has 1500). Everyone folds around to me on the button with JJ (I have
> > 1980).
> > How would you play this?
> >
> > I normally mix up reraising with calling (since I have position) depending
> > on
> > what I know about a player, but with no info, i decided to call and see the
> > flop. The pot is now 170. Flop is 2h 3d Tc. He checks, which I'm not sure
> > what to make of, so I bet 85 to see what happens. He just calls. The pot is
> > now
> > 340. The turn is the 2s. He checks again. I check behind him thinking
> > that he
> > could be slowplaying a big pair or set of tens possibly since he likely has
> > something to call on the flop with no draws out. Or he might just be the
> > normal
> > low limit "I overplay AK" and have nothing, but i figure that if that is the
> > case, he only has five outs and I can afford to give him a free card. The
> > river
> > card is a third deuce, the 2d. He checks again, and I decided to bet 150, a
> > small enough bet that if he does have AK, he might be crazy enough to call,
> > but
> > also small enough that if he makes a big reraise, I don't mind laying it
> > down.
> > Sure enough, he check raises me, raising to 350. I hate donating chips, but
> > the
> > odds (and information) are too appealing (840 in, 200 to call), and I call,
> > and
> > sure enough he shows me AA.
> >
> > Now the hand turned out about as well I could expect given what seems to me
> > to
> > be a very inept playing of AA, but he did get over 500 chips from me, so
> > maybe
> > he was happy.
> >
> > My question is that with JJ, is calling an early raise on the button the
> > wrong
> > play? Would I normally be better off reraising (or mucking), and seeing if
> > he
> > reraises (but if he calls, I'm kind of in the same spot, except possibly
> > I've
> > given him more info). Just trying to better understand how I can profit (or
> > lose the least) with JJ in this situation by making sure I'm not doing
> > anything
> > stupid. Or is this just the fun fun nature of JJ!!
> >
> > I'll take all the help I can get.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > CBedo
>
>
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