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Main
Date: 03 Dec 2006 00:44:48
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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I often get this sort of situation, where I am getting over 3:1 money
odds to call with a hand like QJs. I tend to fold because often the
flop will give me some sort of marginal hand like 1 pair or a good
draw and it is difficult to play that out of position (either you win a
small pot or lose a big one).
Would you prefer to call or fold here? (or reraise I suppose)
The raiser was a fairly loose player (eg. he would raise with
any 2 paint) , and the guy still to act after me, was not
aggressive.
PokerStars Game #7278744996: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
2006/12/03 - 03:24:27 (ET)
Table 'Dike III' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Twinn1 ($30.75 in chips)
Seat 2: San777 ($21.85 in chips)
Seat 3: longcyndia ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Prolifikal ($15.35 in chips)
Seat 5: Monodon ($31.65 in chips)
Seat 6: bobobdave ($25.30 in chips)
Seat 7: Old Wolf NZ ($47.15 in chips)
Seat 8: slush420 ($24.30 in chips)
Seat 9: Ja hunta ($21.55 in chips)
bobobdave: posts small blind $0.10
Old Wolf NZ: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Qh Jh]
slush420: folds
Ja hunta: folds
Twinn1: calls $0.25
San777: folds
longcyndia: folds
Prolifikal: raises $0.75 to $1
Monodon: calls $1
bobobdave: folds
Old Wolf NZ: ?
As it happened, the actual action was:
Old Wolf NZ: folds
Twinn1: folds
*** FLOP *** [4h Jd Jc]
Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
this.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 09:19:11
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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> Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
> this.
Stop being results oriented. If everyone posted every hand where they
folded some trash only to flop trips or better, as Irish Mike says, we
would have enough of these posts to line the grand canyon.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 03:54:40
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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On 3 Dec 2006 00:44:48 -0800, "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
>Old Wolf NZ: posts big blind $0.25
>*** HOLE CARDS ***
>Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Qh Jh]
>slush420: folds
>Ja hunta: folds
>Twinn1: calls $0.25
>San777: folds
>longcyndia: folds
>Prolifikal: raises $0.75 to $1
>Monodon: calls $1
>bobobdave: folds
>Old Wolf NZ: ?
>As it happened, the actual action was:
>Old Wolf NZ: folds
>Twinn1: folds
>*** FLOP *** [4h Jd Jc]
>Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
>this.
I don't mind folding here at all. I actually dislike having QJs here more
than I would 87s. You are often going to be dominated and hit a
hand which will only lose you money. Even "dream flops" like
JJ4 can get you stacked by AJ or even KJ (and you're not likely
to get away from it). But more often you'll hit a marginal pair
with a junk kicker and be forced to dump it.
I might play the hand if I really thought the raiser was a bozo
who would pay me off on the rare really good flops, or a nit
who would fold unless he hit the flop big. I wouldn't worry
that folding it is much of an error at all even in these situations,
though. It is raised only slightly above the muck of pure
dominated junk hands by being suited.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 14:18:20
From: DennisP
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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I don't like calling without any money in, but I will usually defend my
BB with suited connectors.
I also play aggressively postflop though, especailly heads up against a
raiser. If a flop was T75 or some other hand that likely missed my
opponent I am going to C/R.
I think calling and check folding any miss is going to result in losing
money, especially when you add the times you hit top pair and are
forced to fold.
But, if you can pick up a lot of pots that you are behind on then you
can call here. You can make an argument for calling with any two if
that is what you're going to do, but I think that limiting it to pairs
and suited connectors and a little more gets a little more respect.
Old Wolf wrote:
> I often get this sort of situation, where I am getting over 3:1 money
> odds to call with a hand like QJs. I tend to fold because often the
> flop will give me some sort of marginal hand like 1 pair or a good
> draw and it is difficult to play that out of position (either you win a
> small pot or lose a big one).
>
> Would you prefer to call or fold here? (or reraise I suppose)
>
> The raiser was a fairly loose player (eg. he would raise with
> any 2 paint) , and the guy still to act after me, was not
> aggressive.
>
> PokerStars Game #7278744996: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/12/03 - 03:24:27 (ET)
> Table 'Dike III' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
> Seat 1: Twinn1 ($30.75 in chips)
> Seat 2: San777 ($21.85 in chips)
> Seat 3: longcyndia ($9.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: Prolifikal ($15.35 in chips)
> Seat 5: Monodon ($31.65 in chips)
> Seat 6: bobobdave ($25.30 in chips)
> Seat 7: Old Wolf NZ ($47.15 in chips)
> Seat 8: slush420 ($24.30 in chips)
> Seat 9: Ja hunta ($21.55 in chips)
> bobobdave: posts small blind $0.10
> Old Wolf NZ: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Qh Jh]
> slush420: folds
> Ja hunta: folds
> Twinn1: calls $0.25
> San777: folds
> longcyndia: folds
> Prolifikal: raises $0.75 to $1
> Monodon: calls $1
> bobobdave: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: ?
>
> As it happened, the actual action was:
>
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> Twinn1: folds
> *** FLOP *** [4h Jd Jc]
>
> Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
> this.
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 14:45:27
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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On Dec 3 2006 3:18 PM, DennisP wrote:
> I don't like calling without any money in, but I will usually defend my
> BB with suited connectors.
>
> I also play aggressively postflop though, especailly heads up against a
> raiser. If a flop was T75 or some other hand that likely missed my
> opponent I am going to C/R.
You are going to checkraise a preflop raiser with Q-high in a NL cash
game? You do this often?
> I think calling and check folding any miss is going to result in losing
> money, especially when you add the times you hit top pair and are
> forced to fold.
>
> But, if you can pick up a lot of pots that you are behind on then you
> can call here. You can make an argument for calling with any two if
> that is what you're going to do, but I think that limiting it to pairs
> and suited connectors and a little more gets a little more respect.
>
>
> Old Wolf wrote:
> > I often get this sort of situation, where I am getting over 3:1 money
> > odds to call with a hand like QJs. I tend to fold because often the
> > flop will give me some sort of marginal hand like 1 pair or a good
> > draw and it is difficult to play that out of position (either you win a
> > small pot or lose a big one).
> >
> > Would you prefer to call or fold here? (or reraise I suppose)
> >
> > The raiser was a fairly loose player (eg. he would raise with
> > any 2 paint) , and the guy still to act after me, was not
> > aggressive.
> >
> > PokerStars Game #7278744996: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> > 2006/12/03 - 03:24:27 (ET)
> > Table 'Dike III' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
> > Seat 1: Twinn1 ($30.75 in chips)
> > Seat 2: San777 ($21.85 in chips)
> > Seat 3: longcyndia ($9.50 in chips)
> > Seat 4: Prolifikal ($15.35 in chips)
> > Seat 5: Monodon ($31.65 in chips)
> > Seat 6: bobobdave ($25.30 in chips)
> > Seat 7: Old Wolf NZ ($47.15 in chips)
> > Seat 8: slush420 ($24.30 in chips)
> > Seat 9: Ja hunta ($21.55 in chips)
> > bobobdave: posts small blind $0.10
> > Old Wolf NZ: posts big blind $0.25
> > *** HOLE CARDS ***
> > Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Qh Jh]
> > slush420: folds
> > Ja hunta: folds
> > Twinn1: calls $0.25
> > San777: folds
> > longcyndia: folds
> > Prolifikal: raises $0.75 to $1
> > Monodon: calls $1
> > bobobdave: folds
> > Old Wolf NZ: ?
> >
> > As it happened, the actual action was:
> >
> > Old Wolf NZ: folds
> > Twinn1: folds
> > *** FLOP *** [4h Jd Jc]
> >
> > Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
> > this.
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
_______________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 12:39:18
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
> > this.
>
> Stop being results oriented.
I'm not saying "I would have hit trips so maybe I should play this
hand". My main reason for posting was because it's a situation
that often comes up pre-flop when I am not sure what the correct
play is. Sorry for not being clearer.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 13:06:24
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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> I'm not saying "I would have hit trips so maybe I should play this
> hand". My main reason for posting was because it's a situation
> that often comes up pre-flop when I am not sure what the correct
> play is. Sorry for not being clearer.
In that case, think about how your hand fares against a hand that would
raise, and against a hand that would call that raise. Then think about
what sort of flop you would need to be comfortable to continue. Figure
out the odds of all those, and then see if you still like your hand. I'm
not talking about your hand QJ here, but just any hand that you get in
this situation.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
----
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 23:56:38
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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"Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote in message
news:1165135488.287636.174070@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I often get this sort of situation, where I am getting over 3:1 money
> odds to call with a hand like QJs. I tend to fold because often the
> flop will give me some sort of marginal hand like 1 pair or a good
> draw and it is difficult to play that out of position (either you win a
> small pot or lose a big one).
>
> Would you prefer to call or fold here? (or reraise I suppose)
>
> The raiser was a fairly loose player (eg. he would raise with
> any 2 paint) , and the guy still to act after me, was not
> aggressive.
>
> PokerStars Game #7278744996: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/12/03 - 03:24:27 (ET)
> Table 'Dike III' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
> Seat 1: Twinn1 ($30.75 in chips)
> Seat 2: San777 ($21.85 in chips)
> Seat 3: longcyndia ($9.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: Prolifikal ($15.35 in chips)
> Seat 5: Monodon ($31.65 in chips)
> Seat 6: bobobdave ($25.30 in chips)
> Seat 7: Old Wolf NZ ($47.15 in chips)
> Seat 8: slush420 ($24.30 in chips)
> Seat 9: Ja hunta ($21.55 in chips)
> bobobdave: posts small blind $0.10
> Old Wolf NZ: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Qh Jh]
> slush420: folds
> Ja hunta: folds
> Twinn1: calls $0.25
> San777: folds
> longcyndia: folds
> Prolifikal: raises $0.75 to $1
> Monodon: calls $1
> bobobdave: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: ?
Fold, of course. Automatic. You are out of position. What are you planning
to do if a Queen comes? or Or a Jack?
Palooka
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 14:50:17
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Correct odds to call OOP with suited connector (bahh sort of)
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On Dec 3 2006 1:44 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> I often get this sort of situation, where I am getting over 3:1 money
> odds to call with a hand like QJs. I tend to fold because often the
> flop will give me some sort of marginal hand like 1 pair or a good
> draw and it is difficult to play that out of position (either you win a
> small pot or lose a big one).
>
> Would you prefer to call or fold here? (or reraise I suppose)
Fold. Hands like QJ play very poorly in spots like this. The issue is
card domination. If you call with QJ, and flop QQ5, you are going to lose
a lot of money to KQ or AQ, and there is no way to avoid it. You also
won't win much from a hand like AJ or AK, or 88-JJ for example.
Had you 67s, my advice would be to call. The chances that the person who
raised preflop has either a 6 or 7 are much smaller than a Q or J. And,
when you hit a flop like A66 against AK or AQ, or 663 against 77-AA, you
stand to win a lot of money. On the flip side, you are not likely to lose
as much since a hand like K6/Q6/J6/T6 etc. isn't going to be in the mix
too often.
> The raiser was a fairly loose player (eg. he would raise with
> any 2 paint) , and the guy still to act after me, was not
> aggressive.
>
> PokerStars Game #7278744996: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/12/03 - 03:24:27 (ET)
> Table 'Dike III' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
> Seat 1: Twinn1 ($30.75 in chips)
> Seat 2: San777 ($21.85 in chips)
> Seat 3: longcyndia ($9.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: Prolifikal ($15.35 in chips)
> Seat 5: Monodon ($31.65 in chips)
> Seat 6: bobobdave ($25.30 in chips)
> Seat 7: Old Wolf NZ ($47.15 in chips)
> Seat 8: slush420 ($24.30 in chips)
> Seat 9: Ja hunta ($21.55 in chips)
> bobobdave: posts small blind $0.10
> Old Wolf NZ: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [Qh Jh]
> slush420: folds
> Ja hunta: folds
> Twinn1: calls $0.25
> San777: folds
> longcyndia: folds
> Prolifikal: raises $0.75 to $1
> Monodon: calls $1
> bobobdave: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: ?
>
> As it happened, the actual action was:
>
> Old Wolf NZ: folds
> Twinn1: folds
> *** FLOP *** [4h Jd Jc]
>
> Obviously this only happens very rarely, but it prompted me to post
> this.
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
_____________________________________________________________________
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