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Main
Date: 29 Nov 2006 22:45:17
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
you that you were up against aces?
PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
CHutch00: folds
mac_kinish: calls $0.25
SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
no-shades198: folds
Gangstiller: calls $1.25
djfuzzy: folds
l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
ruhtra: folds
mac_kinish: folds
SoccerCult41: folds
Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
Gangstiller: folds
l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
*** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
*** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
*** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 22:53:02
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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On Nov 30 2006 7:45 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
i always push after i get reraised, so there would never be any sort of
action to make me get away from kings, and i generally push after someone
raises ahead of me as well.
>
> PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> CHutch00: folds
> mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> no-shades198: folds
> Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> djfuzzy: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> ruhtra: folds
> mac_kinish: folds
> SoccerCult41: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> Gangstiller: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:55:32
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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"Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote in message
news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
Very easily...
when my opponent pushes and tables his hand before I call.
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:08:06
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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On Nov 30 2006 10:55 AM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> Very easily...
> when my opponent pushes and tables his hand before I call.
>
Let's ask Nick if he would call in this situation. It is pretty similar
to the situation Russ was in with the JJ that Nick said he would call for
implied odds (since you know in that situation your JJ is behind at least
one overpair). I seem to recall Sam Farha calling Barry's all in with KK
when he knew almost certainly (and even said it) that Barry had AA.
> Mark
> --
> www.myspace.com/diputsur
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:27:38
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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"brewmaster" <brewmaster@brewcam.com > wrote in message
news:mpm344xjis.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Nov 30 2006 10:55 AM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
>
>> "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
>> news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
>> > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
>> > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>>
>> Very easily...
>> when my opponent pushes and tables his hand before I call.
>>
>
> Let's ask Nick if he would call in this situation. It is pretty similar
> to the situation Russ was in with the JJ that Nick said he would call for
> implied odds (since you know in that situation your JJ is behind at least
> one overpair).
except there are no implied odds if my opponent pushed ;-)
> I seem to recall Sam Farha calling Barry's all in with KK
> when he knew almost certainly (and even said it) that Barry had AA.
HSP Season 1 ;-)
He was hoping Barry would turn up QQ, but had a sinking
feeling he was behind... right up until the flop ;-)
>
>> Mark
>> --
>> www.myspace.com/diputsur
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 03:50:47
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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I once played a man who was pretty drunk. He thought he was slick and
tried to decieve the other drunks at the table by swearing often. After
a little while I noticed he swore like he hated his hand, then bet and
got called. He hand the best hand and he knew it. I watched to see if
this was a pattern and sure enough it was. He would cuss a little then
throw out a good sized bet. Whenever he did that he won the hand. I
would find it very difficult to fold KK preflop, but If that man was my
opponent and he is swearing and raising I would at least consider
folding it. Besides, even if yo do fold KK and its the best hand it
might not hold up, so on the "mistake" of folding KK you were still
correct to fold them 15% of the time.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:42:17
From: NeverMe
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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I have folded KK twice preflop in cash games, both at Commerce in a
200.00 buyin game. Both Times I had doubled up earlier so the cost for
the call would have been around 400.00 to make the call. First time I
was correct, one person had AA and flopped a set. The 2nd time some
guy who is tighter than a frogs ass pushed preflop and had a caller
before it got to me. I mucked the kings, both of the pushers had AJs
no A hits and I would have won. I would do it again in the same
position.
McSock
Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
>
> PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> CHutch00: folds
> mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> no-shades198: folds
> Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> djfuzzy: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> ruhtra: folds
> mac_kinish: folds
> SoccerCult41: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> Gangstiller: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:19:03
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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On 30 Nov 2006 09:42:17 -0800, "NeverMe" <mcsock@earthlink.net > wrote:
>I have folded KK twice preflop in cash games, both at Commerce in a
>200.00 buyin game. Both Times I had doubled up earlier so the cost for
>the call would have been around 400.00 to make the call. First time I
>was correct, one person had AA and flopped a set. The 2nd time some
>guy who is tighter than a frogs ass pushed preflop and had a caller
>before it got to me. I mucked the kings, both of the pushers had AJs
>no A hits and I would have won. I would do it again in the same
>position.
So overall your strategy cost you 200 bucks (at least) and you're
sticking to it? Nice poker.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:42:03
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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On Nov 30 2006 3:19 PM, Dr Zen wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2006 09:42:17 -0800, "NeverMe" <mcsock@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I have folded KK twice preflop in cash games, both at Commerce in a
> >200.00 buyin game. Both Times I had doubled up earlier so the cost for
> >the call would have been around 400.00 to make the call. First time I
> >was correct, one person had AA and flopped a set. The 2nd time some
> >guy who is tighter than a frogs ass pushed preflop and had a caller
> >before it got to me. I mucked the kings, both of the pushers had AJs
> >no A hits and I would have won. I would do it again in the same
> >position.
>
> So overall your strategy cost you 200 bucks (at least) and you're
> sticking to it? Nice poker.
Zen, I don't normally agree with you, but on this most of us can
agree...you don't fold KK preflop in a cash game unless you are positive
(like, you've seen them) that your opponent has AA. Or at least you don't
tell anybody about it.
>
> --
>
> Dr Zen
> King of the wild pixels.
> http://gollyg.blogspot.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:12:42
From: FaceDownAcesUp
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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What kind of action??
The 4th raise, son. The 4th raise.
When that happens it's time to get out of the way and call Dubya
because you just found the WMDs.
Great laydown by me here.
Table 'Nephele II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: astros1111 ($3.70 in chips)
Seat 2: cjl22 ($25.05 in chips)
Seat 4: marbledad ($16.10 in chips)
Seat 5: mudman388 ($27.40 in chips)
Seat 6: Blue5oh ($7.20 in chips)
Seat 7: Kazoogial ($24.40 in chips)
Seat 8: MetalD ($22.65 in chips)
Seat 9: BulletsProof ($15.10 in chips)
cjl22: posts small blind $0.10
marbledad: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BulletsProof [Kc Ks]
mudman388 said, "need a butt"
mudman388: folds
Blue5oh: folds
Kazoogial: folds
MetalD: raises $0.25 to $0.50
BulletsProof: raises $1.50 to $2
mudman388 is sitting out
astros1111: folds
cjl22: folds
marbledad: raises $1.50 to $3.50
MetalD: raises $19.15 to $22.65 and is all-in
BulletsProof: folds
marbledad: calls $12.60 and is all-in
Lukas Latour joins the table at seat #3
*** FLOP *** [Qc 6s Th]
*** TURN *** [Qc 6s Th] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 6s Th 8c] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
marbledad: shows [9d 9h] (two pair, Nines and Sixes)
MetalD: shows [As Ad] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
MetalD collected $32.60 from pot
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Date: 30 Nov 17:27:30
From: SnoopySuited
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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Where have you been?
On Nov 30 2006 9:12 AM, FaceDownAcesUp wrote:
> What kind of action??
>
> The 4th raise, son. The 4th raise.
>
> When that happens it's time to get out of the way and call Dubya
> because you just found the WMDs.
>
> Great laydown by me here.
>
>
> Table 'Nephele II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
> Seat 1: astros1111 ($3.70 in chips)
> Seat 2: cjl22 ($25.05 in chips)
> Seat 4: marbledad ($16.10 in chips)
> Seat 5: mudman388 ($27.40 in chips)
> Seat 6: Blue5oh ($7.20 in chips)
> Seat 7: Kazoogial ($24.40 in chips)
> Seat 8: MetalD ($22.65 in chips)
> Seat 9: BulletsProof ($15.10 in chips)
> cjl22: posts small blind $0.10
> marbledad: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to BulletsProof [Kc Ks]
> mudman388 said, "need a butt"
> mudman388: folds
> Blue5oh: folds
> Kazoogial: folds
> MetalD: raises $0.25 to $0.50
> BulletsProof: raises $1.50 to $2
> mudman388 is sitting out
> astros1111: folds
> cjl22: folds
> marbledad: raises $1.50 to $3.50
> MetalD: raises $19.15 to $22.65 and is all-in
> BulletsProof: folds
> marbledad: calls $12.60 and is all-in
> Lukas Latour joins the table at seat #3
> *** FLOP *** [Qc 6s Th]
> *** TURN *** [Qc 6s Th] [8c]
> *** RIVER *** [Qc 6s Th 8c] [6d]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> marbledad: shows [9d 9h] (two pair, Nines and Sixes)
> MetalD: shows [As Ad] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
> MetalD collected $32.60 from pot
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:57:37
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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On Nov 29 2006 11:45 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
No specific action would convince me, only action combined with knowledge
that my opponent would not take that action without AA.
I've folded KK preflop in cash games just a couple of times, but to those
players I knew had to have AA. To my credit, the only times I've ever
done it they've shown me AA.
If I don't know you, though, I'm taking my chances. In $25 max, the third
raise could all too often be QQ/JJ/AK. And I've seen the third raise with
everything at one time or another, including 72o (that one was nice since
I was the one with AA that time :) ).
If I'm the other guy in the hand with you, here, I think I go broke 100%
of the time that I don't catch a K over the 5 cards I guarantee you I
would see.
> PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> CHutch00: folds
> mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> no-shades198: folds
> Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> djfuzzy: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> ruhtra: folds
> mac_kinish: folds
> SoccerCult41: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> Gangstiller: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
_______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 06:56:09
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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Nope, never folding KK preflop, and am trying to get all money in there.
If I run into the only better hand at that point, oh well.
On Nov 29 2006 10:45 PM, Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
>
> PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> CHutch00: folds
> mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> no-shades198: folds
> Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> djfuzzy: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> ruhtra: folds
> mac_kinish: folds
> SoccerCult41: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> Gangstiller: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 06:28:42
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
Yes, but not here unless I knew you wouldn't put in the third raise
without aces.
The villain has less than 100bb.
There's dead money in the pot.
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
Limp/re-raise/overbet has convinced me that an opponent has aces.
Raise from EP/re-raise in a deep game has convinced me.
Never folding KK preflop is pretty darn close to right.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 03:51:17
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 12:45 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
If he had folded, that would have been stupid.
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RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 03:41:07
From: John_Dory
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
The most reliable live "tell" I've now witnessed twice is blanching ,
which is quite involuntary and can't be faked .
Both times the punter had just hit quads ................
The most reliable betting pattern ( roughly 85% ) goes thus :-
"The third (pre-flop) re-raise is aces "
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 01:50:03
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
xyious wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 7:45 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> i always push after i get reraised, so there would never be any sort of
> action to make me get away from kings, and i generally push after someone
> raises ahead of me as well.
How about in pot-limit?
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 03:27:16
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 10:50 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> xyious wrote:
> > On Nov 30 2006 7:45 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > > I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> > > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> > > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
> >
> > i always push after i get reraised, so there would never be any sort of
> > action to make me get away from kings, and i generally push after someone
> > raises ahead of me as well.
>
> How about in pot-limit?
well 3 raises would be about 3, 9, 27. i'd definitely put in the third
raise. after those 3 there's 78 big blinds in the pot, plus whatever he
raises, if he makes it 81 i'm getting 159-54, and he would have to have
109 big blinds. haven't played much pot limit tho, so i couldn't say for
sure. but i'd be inclined to say that at the table i wouldn't be able to
think long enough and probably call. i have a bit of bsod.
-Alexander Knopf
http://www.xyious.com/?links
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| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:23:44
From: na
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
I worry about it everytime reraises get to the point, they do here. Alls you
can say is, if I lose my KK to AA again, i'm never playing poker again. And
then rebuy :) lol
================================
http://www.poker-online-poker.info
http://www.pokertits.com - Tits and Poker :)
"Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote in message
news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
>
> PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> CHutch00: folds
> mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> no-shades198: folds
> Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> djfuzzy: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> ruhtra: folds
> mac_kinish: folds
> SoccerCult41: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> Gangstiller: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
>
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 22:34:48
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
I think in a cash game I would always push back. I can't imagine
releasing KK. In a tournament I can, and have, laid it down.
On Nov 30 2006 1:45 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
>
> PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> CHutch00: folds
> mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> no-shades198: folds
> Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> djfuzzy: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> ruhtra: folds
> mac_kinish: folds
> SoccerCult41: folds
> Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> Gangstiller: folds
> l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute
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| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:40:43
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30, 9:42 am, "NeverMe" <mcs...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> I have folded KK twice preflop in cash games, both at Commerce in a
> 200.00 buyin game. Both Times I had doubled up earlier so the cost for
> the call would have been around 400.00 to make the call. First time I
> was correct, one person had AA and flopped a set. The 2nd time some
> guy who is tighter than a frogs ass pushed preflop and had a caller
> before it got to me. I mucked the kings, both of the pushers had AJs
> no A hits and I would have won. I would do it again in the same
> position.
>
> McSock
Someone who is "tighter than a frog's ass" would not push AJs preflop.
AKs maybe. If any unpaired hands are in the raiser's range at all,
you're making a horrible laydown with KK. Actually you're making a
horrible laydown if anything except AA is in the raiser's range. In
the two hands you describe, you would have lost 400 in the first one
and gained 800 in the second one (you said it would cost you all 400 to
call, so I'm assuming your opponents have you covered). Your mistake
of protecting your gains rather than trying to build on them cost you
400 bucks. Nice job.
|
| |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:14:50
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On 29 Nov 2006 22:45:17 -0800, "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz >
wrote:
>I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
>my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
>get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
>In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
>you that you were up against aces?
>
He'd have to reveal his cards.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:56:32
From: Zidane Valor
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
This is when you do it.
PokerStars Game #7241744613: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/30
- 16:53:08 (ET)
Table 'Hungaria V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: L H K ($95.35 in chips)
Seat 2: JRDuda ($25.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Zidane Valor ($26.75 in chips)
Seat 4: andyg333 ($75.20 in chips)
Seat 5: jmillerdls ($70.65 in chips)
Seat 6: familigirls ($35.70 in chips)
Seat 7: hatetherive5 ($36.40 in chips)
Seat 8: facebabe ($48.35 in chips)
Seat 9: Plissken ($55.15 in chips)
jmillerdls: posts small blind $0.25
familigirls: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zidane Valor [Ks Kc]
hatetherive5: folds
facebabe: folds
Plissken: raises $2 to $2.50
L H K: folds
JRDuda: folds
Zidane Valor: raises $4 to $6.50
andyg333: folds
jmillerdls: folds
familigirls: calls $6
Plissken: raises $48.65 to $55.15 and is all-in
Zidane Valor said, "This is the third time today"
Zidane Valor: folds
Plissken said, "who cares"
familigirls: folds
Plissken collected $19.75 from pot
Plissken: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.75
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:21:46
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:56:32 -0800, "Zidane Valor"
<ad202a1@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
>This is when you do it.
>
Nope.
>PokerStars Game #7241744613: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/30
>- 16:53:08 (ET)
>Table 'Hungaria V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
>Seat 1: L H K ($95.35 in chips)
>Seat 2: JRDuda ($25.65 in chips)
>Seat 3: Zidane Valor ($26.75 in chips)
>Seat 4: andyg333 ($75.20 in chips)
>Seat 5: jmillerdls ($70.65 in chips)
>Seat 6: familigirls ($35.70 in chips)
>Seat 7: hatetherive5 ($36.40 in chips)
>Seat 8: facebabe ($48.35 in chips)
>Seat 9: Plissken ($55.15 in chips)
>jmillerdls: posts small blind $0.25
>familigirls: posts big blind $0.50
>*** HOLE CARDS ***
>Dealt to Zidane Valor [Ks Kc]
>hatetherive5: folds
>facebabe: folds
>Plissken: raises $2 to $2.50
>L H K: folds
>JRDuda: folds
>Zidane Valor: raises $4 to $6.50
>andyg333: folds
>jmillerdls: folds
>familigirls: calls $6
>Plissken: raises $48.65 to $55.15 and is all-in
>Zidane Valor said, "This is the third time today"
>Zidane Valor: folds
>Plissken said, "who cares"
LOL!
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:47:00
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 1:56 PM, Zidane Valor wrote:
> This is when you do it.
>
I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You won't play
KK all-in for $20?
> PokerStars Game #7241744613: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/30
> - 16:53:08 (ET)
> Table 'Hungaria V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
> Seat 1: L H K ($95.35 in chips)
> Seat 2: JRDuda ($25.65 in chips)
> Seat 3: Zidane Valor ($26.75 in chips)
> Seat 4: andyg333 ($75.20 in chips)
> Seat 5: jmillerdls ($70.65 in chips)
> Seat 6: familigirls ($35.70 in chips)
> Seat 7: hatetherive5 ($36.40 in chips)
> Seat 8: facebabe ($48.35 in chips)
> Seat 9: Plissken ($55.15 in chips)
> jmillerdls: posts small blind $0.25
> familigirls: posts big blind $0.50
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Zidane Valor [Ks Kc]
> hatetherive5: folds
> facebabe: folds
> Plissken: raises $2 to $2.50
> L H K: folds
> JRDuda: folds
> Zidane Valor: raises $4 to $6.50
> andyg333: folds
> jmillerdls: folds
> familigirls: calls $6
> Plissken: raises $48.65 to $55.15 and is all-in
> Zidane Valor said, "This is the third time today"
> Zidane Valor: folds
> Plissken said, "who cares"
> familigirls: folds
> Plissken collected $19.75 from pot
> Plissken: doesn't show hand
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $19.75
|
| | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:02:57
From: Zidane Valor
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You won't play
> KK all-in for $20?
Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I won many
$100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in an
hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
re-raise. There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces. It's the
most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to ten times
this week and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
KK). So it was a correct fold.
_______________________________________________________________________
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|
| | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 18:23:34
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
"Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:1i4444xuit.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You won't play
>> KK all-in for $20?
>
> Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I won many
> $100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in an
> hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
> re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
> re-raise.
I wouldn't expect to see his 'who cares' statement from a rock at
the table... normally they don't talk ;-)
> There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces.
Or kings, or queens, or jacks... fuck, if he just got done reading
Helmuth, you may have been up against 99!
Then again, maybe he was just fucking with the shortstack to
see how much gamble you had in you.
> It's the
> most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to ten times
> this week
Please tell me you didn't fold kings 5 to 10 times this week ;-)
> and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
> KK). So it was a correct fold.
He didn't show... you'll never know.
(probably would have doubled up though)
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
|
| | | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:40:29
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 3:23 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> "Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:1i4444xuit.ln2@recgroups.com...
> >> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You won't play
> >> KK all-in for $20?
> >
> > Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I won many
> > $100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in an
> > hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
> > re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
> > re-raise.
>
To me, money has a lot to do with it. It is $20. If you can't play KK
for $20 AT ANY LEVEL, you have no business playing poker for money because
you need your money for food. With $20 in my stack I don't even bother
wondering what his bets might mean, I just put my money in and rebuy if he
beats me.
> I wouldn't expect to see his 'who cares' statement from a rock at
> the table... normally they don't talk ;-)
>
> > There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces.
>
> Or kings, or queens, or jacks... fuck, if he just got done reading
> Helmuth, you may have been up against 99!
> Then again, maybe he was just fucking with the shortstack to
> see how much gamble you had in you.
>
> > It's the
> > most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to ten times
> > this week
>
> Please tell me you didn't fold kings 5 to 10 times this week ;-)
>
> > and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
> > KK). So it was a correct fold.
>
> He didn't show... you'll never know.
> (probably would have doubled up though)
>
> Mark
> --
> www.myspace.com/diputsur
--------
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:46:28
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 4:40 PM, brewmaster wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 3:23 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
>
> > "Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:1i4444xuit.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > >> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You won't
play
> > >> KK all-in for $20?
> > >
> > > Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I won many
> > > $100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in an
> > > hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
> > > re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
> > > re-raise.
> >
>
> To me, money has a lot to do with it. It is $20. If you can't play KK
> for $20 AT ANY LEVEL, you have no business playing poker for money because
> you need your money for food. With $20 in my stack I don't even bother
> wondering what his bets might mean, I just put my money in and rebuy if he
> beats me.
That's a pretty poor approach to decision making, in my opinion. You
should make decisions that are correct for the bilnds to stack ratio, no
matter what the level. That's like, if you would commit $20 preflop in a
$3/$5 game with 67s you should be willing to do so in a $50 max game. The
money should not be viewed in an absolute sense or you'll be giving it
away.
That said, I agree that this was a terrible fold, and Zidane should have
beat the guy into the pot this time.
>
> > I wouldn't expect to see his 'who cares' statement from a rock at
> > the table... normally they don't talk ;-)
> >
> > > There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces.
> >
> > Or kings, or queens, or jacks... fuck, if he just got done reading
> > Helmuth, you may have been up against 99!
> > Then again, maybe he was just fucking with the shortstack to
> > see how much gamble you had in you.
> >
> > > It's the
> > > most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to ten
times
> > > this week
> >
> > Please tell me you didn't fold kings 5 to 10 times this week ;-)
> >
> > > and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
> > > KK). So it was a correct fold.
> >
> > He didn't show... you'll never know.
> > (probably would have doubled up though)
> >
> > Mark
> > --
> > www.myspace.com/diputsur
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
------
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|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:56:00
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 3:46 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 4:40 PM, brewmaster wrote:
>
> > On Nov 30 2006 3:23 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> >
> > > "Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > > news:1i4444xuit.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > >> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You won't
> play
> > > >> KK all-in for $20?
> > > >
> > > > Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I won
many
> > > > $100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in an
> > > > hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
> > > > re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
> > > > re-raise.
> > >
> >
> > To me, money has a lot to do with it. It is $20. If you can't play KK
> > for $20 AT ANY LEVEL, you have no business playing poker for money because
> > you need your money for food. With $20 in my stack I don't even bother
> > wondering what his bets might mean, I just put my money in and rebuy if he
> > beats me.
>
> That's a pretty poor approach to decision making, in my opinion. You
> should make decisions that are correct for the bilnds to stack ratio, no
> matter what the level. That's like, if you would commit $20 preflop in a
> $3/$5 game with 67s you should be willing to do so in a $50 max game. The
> money should not be viewed in an absolute sense or you'll be giving it
> away.
This is why I don't think you should ever play below the "don't give a
shit level" otherwise it is like playing for play money and there is no
point. I do not EVER play for just the competition or joy of it, that is
no fun. I have better things to do than to play for $20 (a $20 180 man
sng is for $1000 not $20).
>
> That said, I agree that this was a terrible fold, and Zidane should have
> beat the guy into the pot this time.
>
> >
> > > I wouldn't expect to see his 'who cares' statement from a rock at
> > > the table... normally they don't talk ;-)
> > >
> > > > There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces.
> > >
> > > Or kings, or queens, or jacks... fuck, if he just got done reading
> > > Helmuth, you may have been up against 99!
> > > Then again, maybe he was just fucking with the shortstack to
> > > see how much gamble you had in you.
> > >
> > > > It's the
> > > > most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to ten
> times
> > > > this week
> > >
> > > Please tell me you didn't fold kings 5 to 10 times this week ;-)
> > >
> > > > and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
> > > > KK). So it was a correct fold.
> > >
> > > He didn't show... you'll never know.
> > > (probably would have doubled up though)
> > >
> > > Mark
> > > --
> > > www.myspace.com/diputsur
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"
-----
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
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| | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 16:01:22
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 4:56 PM, brewmaster wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 3:46 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
>
> > On Nov 30 2006 4:40 PM, brewmaster wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 30 2006 3:23 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > > > news:1i4444xuit.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > > >> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You
won't
> > play
> > > > >> KK all-in for $20?
> > > > >
> > > > > Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I won
> many
> > > > > $100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in
an
> > > > > hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
> > > > > re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
> > > > > re-raise.
> > > >
> > >
> > > To me, money has a lot to do with it. It is $20. If you can't play KK
> > > for $20 AT ANY LEVEL, you have no business playing poker for money
because
> > > you need your money for food. With $20 in my stack I don't even bother
> > > wondering what his bets might mean, I just put my money in and rebuy if
he
> > > beats me.
> >
> > That's a pretty poor approach to decision making, in my opinion. You
> > should make decisions that are correct for the bilnds to stack ratio, no
> > matter what the level. That's like, if you would commit $20 preflop in a
> > $3/$5 game with 67s you should be willing to do so in a $50 max game. The
> > money should not be viewed in an absolute sense or you'll be giving it
> > away.
>
> This is why I don't think you should ever play below the "don't give a
> shit level" otherwise it is like playing for play money and there is no
> point. I do not EVER play for just the competition or joy of it, that is
> no fun. I have better things to do than to play for $20 (a $20 180 man
> sng is for $1000 not $20).
That's fine, but since you are replying to someone who is a low limit
probably recreational player, don't you think you might be giving bad
advice? I mean, at least without qualifying it?
I'm not saying bad advice in suggesting a call with the KK, I just mean in
viewing money in absolute value rather than a relative value. $20 may not
mean shit to you, but some guy with $100 to work with is going to see it a
bit differently.
Not trying to debate you, just pointing out that maybe you could consider
stuff like that when you reply to people who do not play $500 tournaments
regularly and don't see money the same way you do.
>
>
>
> >
> > That said, I agree that this was a terrible fold, and Zidane should have
> > beat the guy into the pot this time.
> >
> > >
> > > > I wouldn't expect to see his 'who cares' statement from a rock at
> > > > the table... normally they don't talk ;-)
> > > >
> > > > > There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces.
> > > >
> > > > Or kings, or queens, or jacks... fuck, if he just got done reading
> > > > Helmuth, you may have been up against 99!
> > > > Then again, maybe he was just fucking with the shortstack to
> > > > see how much gamble you had in you.
> > > >
> > > > > It's the
> > > > > most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to ten
> > times
> > > > > this week
> > > >
> > > > Please tell me you didn't fold kings 5 to 10 times this week ;-)
> > > >
> > > > > and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
> > > > > KK). So it was a correct fold.
> > > >
> > > > He didn't show... you'll never know.
> > > > (probably would have doubled up though)
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > > --
> > > > www.myspace.com/diputsur
> >
> >
> > ~ MysteriAce
> >
> > "Ashes and diamonds
> > Foe and friend
> > We were all equal in the end"
~ MysteriAce
"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"
-------
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 17:12:22
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 4:01 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 4:56 PM, brewmaster wrote:
>
> > On Nov 30 2006 3:46 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 30 2006 4:40 PM, brewmaster wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Nov 30 2006 3:23 PM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > > > > news:1i4444xuit.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > > > >> I can't believe you posted that. That is a retarded fold. You
> won't
> > > play
> > > > > >> KK all-in for $20?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Money has nothing to do with it. I've lost many $100 pots and I
won
> > many
> > > > > > $100 pots in the last week. But the player hadn't done anything in
> an
> > > > > > hour, and all of a sudden he is pushing all-in against a player who
> > > > > > re-raised his early positon raise and a player who cold called that
> > > > > > re-raise.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > To me, money has a lot to do with it. It is $20. If you can't play KK
> > > > for $20 AT ANY LEVEL, you have no business playing poker for money
> because
> > > > you need your money for food. With $20 in my stack I don't even bother
> > > > wondering what his bets might mean, I just put my money in and rebuy if
> he
> > > > beats me.
> > >
> > > That's a pretty poor approach to decision making, in my opinion. You
> > > should make decisions that are correct for the bilnds to stack ratio, no
> > > matter what the level. That's like, if you would commit $20 preflop in a
> > > $3/$5 game with 67s you should be willing to do so in a $50 max game.
The
> > > money should not be viewed in an absolute sense or you'll be giving it
> > > away.
> >
> > This is why I don't think you should ever play below the "don't give a
> > shit level" otherwise it is like playing for play money and there is no
> > point. I do not EVER play for just the competition or joy of it, that is
> > no fun. I have better things to do than to play for $20 (a $20 180 man
> > sng is for $1000 not $20).
>
> That's fine, but since you are replying to someone who is a low limit
> probably recreational player, don't you think you might be giving bad
> advice? I mean, at least without qualifying it?
>
> I'm not saying bad advice in suggesting a call with the KK, I just mean in
> viewing money in absolute value rather than a relative value. $20 may not
> mean shit to you, but some guy with $100 to work with is going to see it a
> bit differently.
>
> Not trying to debate you, just pointing out that maybe you could consider
> stuff like that when you reply to people who do not play $500 tournaments
> regularly and don't see money the same way you do.
>
You are probably right about that. I still think you call with KK here
though.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > That said, I agree that this was a terrible fold, and Zidane should have
> > > beat the guy into the pot this time.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I wouldn't expect to see his 'who cares' statement from a rock at
> > > > > the table... normally they don't talk ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > > There is only one hand he can have, and it's aces.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or kings, or queens, or jacks... fuck, if he just got done reading
> > > > > Helmuth, you may have been up against 99!
> > > > > Then again, maybe he was just fucking with the shortstack to
> > > > > see how much gamble you had in you.
> > > > >
> > > > > > It's the
> > > > > > most obviously play at low limit, and I've seen it about five to
ten
> > > times
> > > > > > this week
> > > > >
> > > > > Please tell me you didn't fold kings 5 to 10 times this week ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > > and only once did the person not have aces (the exception was
> > > > > > KK). So it was a correct fold.
> > > > >
> > > > > He didn't show... you'll never know.
> > > > > (probably would have doubled up though)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > > --
> > > > > www.myspace.com/diputsur
> > >
> > >
> > > ~ MysteriAce
> > >
> > > "Ashes and diamonds
> > > Foe and friend
> > > We were all equal in the end"
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"
_______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 17:30:08
From: Zidane Valor
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
When the hell did it become a sin to fold a good hand preflop?
PokerStars Game #7200513670: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/27
- 17:07:01 (ET)
Table 'Euterpe IV' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Zidane Valor ($43.25 in chips)
Seat 2: tiredscrub ($48.75 in chips)
Seat 4: guncito ($39.50 in chips)
Seat 5: latrin Lover ($27.40 in chips)
Seat 6: geekmachine ($41.65 in chips)
Seat 7: ukeeray ($27.15 in chips)
Seat 9: wheelz86 ($53.30 in chips)
guncito: posts small blind $0.25
latrin Lover: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zidane Valor [Kd Kc]
geekmachine: raises $1.50 to $2
ukeeray: folds
wheelz86: folds
Zidane Valor: raises $5 to $7
tiredscrub: folds
hepformayor joins the table at seat #3
guncito: calls $6.75
latrin Lover: folds
geekmachine: raises $13 to $20
I knew right here I was beat, but I kept playing anyway because of a post
two weeks ago calling me a nit for folding on this spot, so I got
distracted from my read.
Zidane Valor said, "Are you serious?"
Zidane Valor said, "I've already folded once in this spot and got ripped
for it"
Zidane Valor: calls $13
guncito: calls $13
*** FLOP *** [7d 3d 6c]
guncito: checks
geekmachine: bets $21.65 and is all-in
Zidane Valor said, "If I was smart, I would fold"
Zidane Valor: calls $21.65
Obviously, I'm not that smart.
guncito: folds
*** TURN *** [7d 3d 6c] [Qs]
Zidane Valor said, "K"
*** RIVER *** [7d 3d 6c Qs] [Td]
Zidane Valor said, "K"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
geekmachine: shows [Ac Ad] (a pair of Aces)
Zidane Valor: mucks hand
geekmachine collected $100.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $103.80
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 11:58:43
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:30:08 -0800, "Zidane Valor"
<ad202a1@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
>When the hell did it become a sin to fold a good hand preflop?
>
>PokerStars Game #7200513670: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/27
>- 17:07:01 (ET)
>Table 'Euterpe IV' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
>Seat 1: Zidane Valor ($43.25 in chips)
>Seat 2: tiredscrub ($48.75 in chips)
>Seat 4: guncito ($39.50 in chips)
>Seat 5: latrin Lover ($27.40 in chips)
>Seat 6: geekmachine ($41.65 in chips)
>Seat 7: ukeeray ($27.15 in chips)
>Seat 9: wheelz86 ($53.30 in chips)
>guncito: posts small blind $0.25
>latrin Lover: posts big blind $0.50
>*** HOLE CARDS ***
>Dealt to Zidane Valor [Kd Kc]
>geekmachine: raises $1.50 to $2
>ukeeray: folds
>wheelz86: folds
>Zidane Valor: raises $5 to $7
>tiredscrub: folds
>hepformayor joins the table at seat #3
>guncito: calls $6.75
>latrin Lover: folds
>geekmachine: raises $13 to $20
>
>I knew right here I was beat, but I kept playing anyway because of a post
>two weeks ago calling me a nit for folding on this spot, so I got
>distracted from my read.
>
>Zidane Valor said, "Are you serious?"
>Zidane Valor said, "I've already folded once in this spot and got ripped
>for it"
>Zidane Valor: puts his stack in
>guncito: calls $13
>*** FLOP *** [7d 3d 6c]
>guncito: checks
>geekmachine: bets $21.65 and is all-in
>Zidane Valor said, "If I was smart, I would have pushed preflop"
>Zidane Valor: calls $21.65
>
>Obviously, I'm not that smart.
FYP, you horrid fucking nit.
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 00:10:24
From: xyious
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Dec 1 2006 2:30 AM, Zidane Valor wrote:
> When the hell did it become a sin to fold a good hand preflop?
>
> PokerStars Game #7200513670: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/27
> - 17:07:01 (ET)
> Table 'Euterpe IV' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
> Seat 1: Zidane Valor ($43.25 in chips)
> Seat 2: tiredscrub ($48.75 in chips)
> Seat 4: guncito ($39.50 in chips)
> Seat 5: latrin Lover ($27.40 in chips)
> Seat 6: geekmachine ($41.65 in chips)
> Seat 7: ukeeray ($27.15 in chips)
> Seat 9: wheelz86 ($53.30 in chips)
> guncito: posts small blind $0.25
> latrin Lover: posts big blind $0.50
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Zidane Valor [Kd Kc]
> geekmachine: raises $1.50 to $2
> ukeeray: folds
> wheelz86: folds
> Zidane Valor: raises $5 to $7
> tiredscrub: folds
> hepformayor joins the table at seat #3
> guncito: calls $6.75
> latrin Lover: folds
> geekmachine: raises $13 to $20
>
> I knew right here I was beat, but I kept playing anyway because of a post
> two weeks ago calling me a nit for folding on this spot, so I got
> distracted from my read.
never listen to zen.
>
> Zidane Valor said, "Are you serious?"
> Zidane Valor said, "I've already folded once in this spot and got ripped
> for it"
> Zidane Valor: calls $13
> guncito: calls $13
> *** FLOP *** [7d 3d 6c]
> guncito: checks
> geekmachine: bets $21.65 and is all-in
> Zidane Valor said, "If I was smart, I would fold"
> Zidane Valor: calls $21.65
>
> Obviously, I'm not that smart.
>
> guncito: folds
> *** TURN *** [7d 3d 6c] [Qs]
> Zidane Valor said, "K"
now this is the bullshit i really hate.
cheering for the suckout....
> *** RIVER *** [7d 3d 6c Qs] [Td]
> Zidane Valor said, "K"
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> geekmachine: shows [Ac Ad] (a pair of Aces)
> Zidane Valor: mucks hand
> geekmachine collected $100.80 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $103.80
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:21:44
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 6:30 PM, Zidane Valor wrote:
> When the hell did it become a sin to fold a good hand preflop?
Man, you are an unlucky guy :)
Don't get all results-oriented, though, most of the time this isn't going
to happen to you.
>
> PokerStars Game #7200513670: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/27
> - 17:07:01 (ET)
> Table 'Euterpe IV' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
> Seat 1: Zidane Valor ($43.25 in chips)
> Seat 2: tiredscrub ($48.75 in chips)
> Seat 4: guncito ($39.50 in chips)
> Seat 5: latrin Lover ($27.40 in chips)
> Seat 6: geekmachine ($41.65 in chips)
> Seat 7: ukeeray ($27.15 in chips)
> Seat 9: wheelz86 ($53.30 in chips)
> guncito: posts small blind $0.25
> latrin Lover: posts big blind $0.50
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Zidane Valor [Kd Kc]
> geekmachine: raises $1.50 to $2
> ukeeray: folds
> wheelz86: folds
> Zidane Valor: raises $5 to $7
> tiredscrub: folds
> hepformayor joins the table at seat #3
> guncito: calls $6.75
> latrin Lover: folds
> geekmachine: raises $13 to $20
>
> I knew right here I was beat, but I kept playing anyway because of a post
> two weeks ago calling me a nit for folding on this spot, so I got
> distracted from my read.
>
> Zidane Valor said, "Are you serious?"
> Zidane Valor said, "I've already folded once in this spot and got ripped
> for it"
> Zidane Valor: calls $13
> guncito: calls $13
> *** FLOP *** [7d 3d 6c]
> guncito: checks
> geekmachine: bets $21.65 and is all-in
> Zidane Valor said, "If I was smart, I would fold"
> Zidane Valor: calls $21.65
>
> Obviously, I'm not that smart.
>
> guncito: folds
> *** TURN *** [7d 3d 6c] [Qs]
> Zidane Valor said, "K"
> *** RIVER *** [7d 3d 6c Qs] [Td]
> Zidane Valor said, "K"
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> geekmachine: shows [Ac Ad] (a pair of Aces)
> Zidane Valor: mucks hand
> geekmachine collected $100.80 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $103.80
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 17:15:47
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
"Zidane Valor" <ad202a1@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:gl0444xq7t.ln2@recgroups.com...
> This is when you do it.
On Stars??? Thought that was the bad beat capital of the world?
You're either ahead already with your KK, or will be after the flop!
I double up there.
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
> PokerStars Game #7241744613: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/30
> - 16:53:08 (ET)
> Table 'Hungaria V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
> Seat 1: L H K ($95.35 in chips)
> Seat 2: JRDuda ($25.65 in chips)
> Seat 3: Zidane Valor ($26.75 in chips)
> Seat 4: andyg333 ($75.20 in chips)
> Seat 5: jmillerdls ($70.65 in chips)
> Seat 6: familigirls ($35.70 in chips)
> Seat 7: hatetherive5 ($36.40 in chips)
> Seat 8: facebabe ($48.35 in chips)
> Seat 9: Plissken ($55.15 in chips)
> jmillerdls: posts small blind $0.25
> familigirls: posts big blind $0.50
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to Zidane Valor [Ks Kc]
> hatetherive5: folds
> facebabe: folds
> Plissken: raises $2 to $2.50
> L H K: folds
> JRDuda: folds
> Zidane Valor: raises $4 to $6.50
> andyg333: folds
> jmillerdls: folds
> familigirls: calls $6
> Plissken: raises $48.65 to $55.15 and is all-in
> Zidane Valor said, "This is the third time today"
> Zidane Valor: folds
> Plissken said, "who cares"
> familigirls: folds
> Plissken collected $19.75 from pot
> Plissken: doesn't show hand
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $19.75
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:07:42
From: Aboo
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 12:45 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
In a cash game? The action of you turning over your cards and showing me
both Aces.
________________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:58:51
From: Ron Dworkin
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
brewmaster wrote:
> On Nov 30 2006 10:55 AM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
>
> > "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
> > news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > >I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> > > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> > > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
> >
> > Very easily...
> > when my opponent pushes and tables his hand before I call.
> >
>
> Let's ask Nick if he would call in this situation. It is pretty similar
> to the situation Russ was in with the JJ that Nick said he would call for
> implied odds (since you know in that situation your JJ is behind at least
> one overpair).
How do you have any implied odds here?
I seem to recall Sam Farha calling Barry's all in with KK
> when he knew almost certainly (and even said it) that Barry had AA.
>
> > Mark
> > --
> > www.myspace.com/diputsur
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:19:59
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
On Nov 30 2006 12:58 PM, Ron Dworkin wrote:
> brewmaster wrote:
> > On Nov 30 2006 10:55 AM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
> >
> > > "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
> > > news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > >I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> > > > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> > > > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
> > >
> > > Very easily...
> > > when my opponent pushes and tables his hand before I call.
> > >
> >
> > Let's ask Nick if he would call in this situation. It is pretty similar
> > to the situation Russ was in with the JJ that Nick said he would call for
> > implied odds (since you know in that situation your JJ is behind at least
> > one overpair).
>
> How do you have any implied odds here?
>
You don't, I was trying to bait nick into telling why calling with KK is a
good play even if you see your opponent's AA.
Reminds me of a tourney hand I had once. Late in tourney, one limper, I
raised all-in on the button with AQd. Other player thinks for a LONG time
then finally folds A7o face up. I show my hand and he says, nice hand, I
put you on something like 99. If I knew you had AQ I would have called.
With A7????
> I seem to recall Sam Farha calling Barry's all in with KK
> > when he knew almost certainly (and even said it) that Barry had AA.
> >
> > > Mark
> > > --
> > > www.myspace.com/diputsur
> >
---
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|
| | | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 16:37:29
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
"brewmaster" <brewmaster@brewcam.com > wrote in message
news:vgu344xv2t.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Nov 30 2006 12:58 PM, Ron Dworkin wrote:
>
>> brewmaster wrote:
>> > On Nov 30 2006 10:55 AM, Mark B (Diputsur) wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
>> > > news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > > >I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
>> > > > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
>> > > > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>> > >
>> > > Very easily...
>> > > when my opponent pushes and tables his hand before I call.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Let's ask Nick if he would call in this situation. It is pretty similar
>> > to the situation Russ was in with the JJ that Nick said he would call for
>> > implied odds (since you know in that situation your JJ is behind at least
>> > one overpair).
>>
>> How do you have any implied odds here?
>>
>
> You don't, I was trying to bait nick into telling why calling with KK is a
> good play even if you see your opponent's AA.
I can think of one scenario off the top of my head...
Late stages of a tourney, you're the fat stack and bump it up
preflop with your KK... folds around to the ubershort stack
who could barely cover your bet but proceeds to put his
remaining chips into the pot and tables his AA ... I'll call
here for the shot at ruining his day ;-)
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:30:34
From: jarrett40
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
|
Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
I have dumped KK before the flop 3 times this year in the 2/5 NL game I
usually play in..Each time I knew my opponents and how they play.I know
I was right because I was shown their hands all 3 times.
Here's a scenario of one of those times:
I have about $500 in chips and catch KK UTG in a 10 handed 2/5 NL game
and just call to try to get a raise behind me so I can lay the lash to
it when it gets back to me. 3 others call. Lo and behold, BB raises to
$35.I'm hoping he has QQ or lower but I need to find out now, so I
raise to $135. Others fold. BB re-raises all-in. He more than has me
covered.I fold
because
[1] I know him and his play
[2] more importantly I know he knows me and my play [tight]
[3] he knows I have a BIG pair by the way I played and he re-reraised
anyway
[I] I now know he can beat my big pair
>
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
see above
I have had KK laid down against me 2 times this year by people who had
the OTHER 2 Kings and showed them to me.
jarrett40
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 16:44:35
From: Mark B \(Diputsur\)
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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"jarrett40" <jarrett40@msn.com > wrote in message
news:1164918634.461104.107910@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Old Wolf wrote:
>> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
>> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
>> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>
> I have dumped KK before the flop 3 times this year in the 2/5 NL game I
> usually play in..Each time I knew my opponents and how they play.I know
> I was right because I was shown their hands all 3 times.
We believe ya Phil ;-)
That being said: any RGP'ers show the aces when opponents lay down?
I'll claim aces every time... but I'll never show em. That's one hand my
opponents have to pay to see.
> Here's a scenario of one of those times:
>
> I have about $500 in chips and catch KK UTG in a 10 handed 2/5 NL game
> and just call to try to get a raise behind me so I can lay the lash to
> it when it gets back to me. 3 others call. Lo and behold, BB raises to
> $35.I'm hoping he has QQ or lower but I need to find out now, so I
> raise to $135. Others fold. BB re-raises all-in. He more than has me
> covered.I fold
> because
>
> [1] I know him and his play
> [2] more importantly I know he knows me and my play [tight]
> [3] he knows I have a BIG pair by the way I played and he re-reraised
> anyway
> [I] I now know he can beat my big pair
>
>>
>> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
>> you that you were up against aces?
>
> see above
>
>
> I have had KK laid down against me 2 times this year by people who had
> the OTHER 2 Kings and showed them to me.
Hard to do online (unless you're on poker.com ;-)
I take it these were live hands? I don't worry as
much about being up against aces as I do when
playing online for some reason.
Mark
--
www.myspace.com/diputsur
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:19:12
From: Iceman
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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Old Wolf wrote:
> I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
Only if I was very sure of my opponent and the money was very deep. If
I had played enough against him to be sure he would only go all-in with
AA/KK, and from the action it was clear he wasn't making a move.
Against a tricky player, I wouldn't ever fold KK. It would have to be
a very tight, predictable player.
> In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> you that you were up against aces?
Limp-reraise-push against a tight player who shows strength. Massive
all-in overbet from a player facing multiple raises from tight players.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:17:29
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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On 29 Nov 2006 22:45:17 -0800, "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
>I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
>my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
>get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
>In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
>you that you were up against aces?
He could turn them over and show me aces. Also he could
have mirrored sunglasses that reflect the aces.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:32:34
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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brewmaster wrote:
> Let's ask Nick if he would call in this situation. It is pretty similar
> to the situation Russ was in with the JJ that Nick said he would call for
> implied odds (since you know in that situation your JJ is behind at least
> one overpair). I seem to recall Sam Farha calling Barry's all in with KK
> when he knew almost certainly (and even said it) that Barry had AA.
Well, either:
A) He wasn't really that sure.
B) He was getting pot odds.
C) He was being stupid.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 07:40:40
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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pokerchimp wrote:
> I think in a cash game I would always push back. I can't imagine
> releasing KK. In a tournament I can, and have, laid it down.
Is that because of the tournament equity of your last chips?
My inclination is the opposite. I've never laid down KK in a
tournament, simply because the pot is usually still significant
compared to the last raises. In that case, I have to be more sure of
the read.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 06:53:28
From: Batman
Subject: Re: Can you fold KK pre-flop in a cash game
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I have to agree, although, to answer the original question, I knew the
guy had Aces when I called his all in with my Kings, yet I did it
anyway.... Go figure :)
Mike
Writer, http://www.pokerallstar.com
Owner, http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCalPoker/
Co-Owner, Pokerholics, the #1 Poker Group on Yahoo!!!
na wrote:
> I worry about it everytime reraises get to the point, they do here. Alls you
> can say is, if I lose my KK to AA again, i'm never playing poker again. And
> then rebuy :) lol
>
> ================================
> http://www.poker-online-poker.info
> http://www.pokertits.com - Tits and Poker :)
>
>
>
> "Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:1164869116.997394.206160@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >I had AA and the other guy had KK. His play looks stupid from
> > my position of course, but if you were him , would you ever
> > get away from KK if you had the chance to get it all in preflop?
> >
> > In other words, what sort of action would it take to convince
> > you that you were up against aces?
> >
> > PokerStars Game #7235176223: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
> > 2006/11/30 - 01:38:54 (ET)
> > Table 'Merga' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
> > Seat 1: l-lOLDElVl ($21.65 in chips)
> > Seat 2: ruhtra ($4.75 in chips)
> > Seat 3: CHutch00 ($8.50 in chips)
> > Seat 4: mac_kinish ($27.25 in chips)
> > Seat 5: SoccerCult41 ($17 in chips)
> > Seat 6: Old Wolf NZ ($23.45 in chips)
> > Seat 7: no-shades198 ($13.75 in chips)
> > Seat 8: Gangstiller ($13.90 in chips)
> > Seat 9: djfuzzy ($14.40 in chips)
> > l-lOLDElVl: posts small blind $0.10
> > ruhtra: posts big blind $0.25
> > *** HOLE CARDS ***
> > Dealt to Old Wolf NZ [As Ah]
> > CHutch00: folds
> > mac_kinish: calls $0.25
> > SoccerCult41: calls $0.25
> > Old Wolf NZ: raises $1 to $1.25
> > no-shades198: folds
> > Gangstiller: calls $1.25
> > djfuzzy: folds
> > l-lOLDElVl: raises $4 to $5.25
> > ruhtra: folds
> > mac_kinish: folds
> > SoccerCult41: folds
> > Old Wolf NZ: raises $12.50 to $17.75
> > Gangstiller: folds
> > l-lOLDElVl: raises $3.90 to $21.65 and is all-in
> > Old Wolf NZ: calls $3.90
> > *** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5c]
> > *** TURN *** [6c 8h 5c] [Js]
> > *** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5c Js] [2c]
> > *** SHOW DOWN ***
> > l-lOLDElVl: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
> > Old Wolf NZ: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
> > Old Wolf NZ collected $43.05 from pot
> >
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