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Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:36:14
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Betting Patterns
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I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
field.
>From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
What do you guys think?
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 16:27:44
From: Kinnipak
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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On Dec 15 2006 3:36 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
> I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
> differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
> a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
> field.
>
> >From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
> for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
>
> What do you guys think?
XaQMorphy: John_Brian_K, you can't spend your whole life worrying about
your mistakes! You fucked up - you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it!
Maybe we can help.
John_Brian_K: [yelling] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to do?
XaQMorphy: I'll tell you what. We'll tell everyone you were doing a great
job of playing online poker, but you got hammered last night, got online
with your whole bankroll, and in the morning, it was gone. We report it to
the police, Fellknight takes care of the wreck, the insurance company buys
you a new BANKROLL!
John_Brian_K: Will that work?
XaQMorphy: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth.
MissT: [thrusting a pitcher of Apple Martini's into John_Brain_K's hands]
My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
XaqMorphy: Better listen to her, John_Brian_K, she's a business owner....
____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 00:50:02
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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"Kinnipak" <a83ea3b@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:05rb54x3ll.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 15 2006 3:36 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
>
>> I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
>> differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
>> a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
>> field.
>>
>> >From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
>> for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
>>
>> What do you guys think?
>
> XaQMorphy: John_Brian_K, you can't spend your whole life worrying about
> your mistakes! You fucked up - you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it!
> Maybe we can help.
> John_Brian_K: [yelling] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to do?
> XaQMorphy: I'll tell you what. We'll tell everyone you were doing a great
> job of playing online poker, but you got hammered last night, got online
> with your whole bankroll, and in the morning, it was gone. We report it to
> the police, Fellknight takes care of the wreck, the insurance company buys
> you a new BANKROLL!
> John_Brian_K: Will that work?
> XaQMorphy: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth.
> MissT: [thrusting a pitcher of Apple Martini's into John_Brain_K's hands]
> My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
> XaqMorphy: Better listen to her, John_Brian_K, she's a business owner....
>
Xaqly.
Palooka
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:19:17
From: FaceDownAcesUp
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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John_Brian_K wrote:
> I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
> differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
> a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
> field.
>
> >From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
> for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
>
> What do you guys think?
Just bet the same amount when you bluff as you do when you actually
have a hand.
This is the theory of betting that the stallion employs. I fire the
same type of bets whether I have the nuts or absolutely nothing. It's
like do I have the WMDs or do I have 72 offsuit? Fuck if I even know
cause half the time I don't bother looking at my cards anyway when I
raise.
Also, you must be willing to make nice size bets with big hands and run
the risk of people folding and not getting any action. A lot of morons
only bet big with bluffs and draws, then when they get aces they
mini-raise or if they flop a set they make some pansy underbet. Those
people suck.
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Date: 17 Dec 20:32:15
From: SnoopySuited
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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Is that why you don't play anymore?
On Dec 15 2006 2:19 PM, FaceDownAcesUp wrote:
> John_Brian_K wrote:
> > I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
> > differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
> > a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
> > field.
> >
> > >From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
> > for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
> >
> > What do you guys think?
>
> Just bet the same amount when you bluff as you do when you actually
> have a hand.
>
> This is the theory of betting that the stallion employs. I fire the
> same type of bets whether I have the nuts or absolutely nothing. It's
> like do I have the WMDs or do I have 72 offsuit? Fuck if I even know
> cause half the time I don't bother looking at my cards anyway when I
> raise.
>
> Also, you must be willing to make nice size bets with big hands and run
> the risk of people folding and not getting any action. A lot of morons
> only bet big with bluffs and draws, then when they get aces they
> mini-raise or if they flop a set they make some pansy underbet. Those
> people suck.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:15:15
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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> Here's a good standard base to start with. Early levels, 10/20, 15/30,
> 20/40 (or does Stars jump right to 25/50, I forget). Raise 4xBB plus 1BB
> for each limper. Later levels, move it down to 3xBB plus 1BB for each
> limper.
>
> So level 1, if you open the pot, you raise to 80. Level 2, 3 limpers in
> front and you raise, make it 210. Etc.
>
> This is a guideline and there are always other factors to take into
> consideration. But for starters, this should work well.
Thanks Morph. I used to always keep the same patterns of betting no
matter what level. I will try your advise and not vary it from small
pairs to A-K.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:28:56
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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> Thanks Morph. I used to always keep the same patterns of betting no
> matter what level. I will try your advise and not vary it from small
> pairs to A-K.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Hey not a problem. There are times to vary raises, and I've had
discussions with friends as to raising basically based on your hand
strength. But I think for a starting baseline, keeping raises consistent
lets you work on other aspects of your game, to try and shore up other,
larger leaks. Sure, there are times you want to raise more, and there are
times you may want to raise a specific amount for a specific hand, but for
the most part, a standard raise pattern can work.
I think raising the same base amount will only introduce very small
mistakes in your game, so that you can focus your attention on much larger
issues instead.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
----
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 23:36:00
From: Palooka
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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"XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:86kb54x79l.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> Thanks Morph. I used to always keep the same patterns of betting no
>> matter what level. I will try your advise and not vary it from small
>> pairs to A-K.
>>
>> Thanks for taking the time to respond.
>
> Hey not a problem. There are times to vary raises, and I've had
> discussions with friends as to raising basically based on your hand
> strength. But I think for a starting baseline, keeping raises consistent
> lets you work on other aspects of your game, to try and shore up other,
> larger leaks. Sure, there are times you want to raise more, and there are
> times you may want to raise a specific amount for a specific hand, but for
> the most part, a standard raise pattern can work.
>
> I think raising the same base amount will only introduce very small
> mistakes in your game, so that you can focus your attention on much larger
> issues instead.
>
First off, I claim no great expertise, but I don't agree with Morphy here.
Obviously making a bigger bet with a better hand is somewhat transparent,
*but* I think it is right, online and at low buyins, to make bigger raises
with good hands *when the blinds are smaller*, than with the same hand after
the blinds have risen a few times. For example, UTG at 10/20 I will raise a
damn sight more than 3*BB if I hold a hand such as KK. In the games I play,
if I only raise to 60 or 80, there will be 5 callers. That isn't necessarily
so bad, but I'd rather raise to 150 and have one or two.
Palooka
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Date: 15 Dec 23:50:19
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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On Dec 15 2006 11:36 PM, Palooka wrote:
> "XaQ Morphy" wrote in message
> news:86kb54x79l.ln2@recgroups.com...
> >> Thanks Morph. I used to always keep the same patterns of betting no
> >> matter what level. I will try your advise and not vary it from small
> >> pairs to A-K.
> >>
> >> Thanks for taking the time to respond.
> >
> > Hey not a problem. There are times to vary raises, and I've had
> > discussions with friends as to raising basically based on your hand
> > strength. But I think for a starting baseline, keeping raises consistent
> > lets you work on other aspects of your game, to try and shore up other,
> > larger leaks. Sure, there are times you want to raise more, and there are
> > times you may want to raise a specific amount for a specific hand, but for
> > the most part, a standard raise pattern can work.
> >
> > I think raising the same base amount will only introduce very small
> > mistakes in your game, so that you can focus your attention on much larger
> > issues instead.
> >
> First off, I claim no great expertise, but I don't agree with Morphy here.
> Obviously making a bigger bet with a better hand is somewhat transparent,
> *but* I think it is right, online and at low buyins, to make bigger raises
> with good hands *when the blinds are smaller*, than with the same hand after
> the blinds have risen a few times. For example, UTG at 10/20 I will raise a
> damn sight more than 3*BB if I hold a hand such as KK. In the games I play,
> if I only raise to 60 or 80, there will be 5 callers. That isn't necessarily
> so bad, but I'd rather raise to 150 and have one or two.
>
> Palooka
For small stake buyin SNGs, in the early stages, I nearly always treat QQ as a
small pair, and try to see the flop for as little as possible. Rationale for
this is that you are not likely to thin the field unless you go silly with your
preflop raise, and even manaics tend to think twice before calling 20bbs with
ace rags...so if you do get call, you are fucked most of the time, except for
the odd times where they show JJ or TT.
Raising 6BBs in EP is no good either...once you get one caller, you will get
others calling for value...but being out of position with QQ multi-handed in a
big pot is really my idea of hell.
The advantages is that your 6bbs raise with AA/KK is much likely to get multiple
callers, and unless you are really unlucky, you should win a big pot with them
most of the time.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:04:16
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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> I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
> differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
> a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
> field.
>
> >From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
> for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
>
> What do you guys think?
Here's a good standard base to start with. Early levels, 10/20, 15/30,
20/40 (or does Stars jump right to 25/50, I forget). Raise 4xBB plus 1BB
for each limper. Later levels, move it down to 3xBB plus 1BB for each
limper.
So level 1, if you open the pot, you raise to 80. Level 2, 3 limpers in
front and you raise, make it 210. Etc.
This is a guideline and there are always other factors to take into
consideration. But for starters, this should work well.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 15 Dec 22:19:46
From: steve1127
Subject: Re: Betting Patterns
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On Dec 15 2006 5:04 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > I dont expect people to give away betting patterns and they probably
> > differ anyway, but I received a few response to a few hands I played on
> > a tourney and a few mentioned how they would raise more to thin the
> > field.
> >
> > >From what I have read of the perople who suggest it I have some respect
> > for, but really like to keep my betting very standard.
> >
> > What do you guys think?
>
> Here's a good standard base to start with. Early levels, 10/20, 15/30,
> 20/40 (or does Stars jump right to 25/50, I forget). Raise 4xBB plus 1BB
> for each limper. Later levels, move it down to 3xBB plus 1BB for each
> limper.
>
> So level 1, if you open the pot, you raise to 80. Level 2, 3 limpers in
> front and you raise, make it 210. Etc.
>
> This is a guideline and there are always other factors to take into
> consideration. But for starters, this should work well.
>
> Morphy
> http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com/
This sounds about right to me. I usually just stick with 3x the bb as my base,
but definitely always add another bb after a limper. Most people don't realize
that's what you're doing, so even though your raises are very standard, they
appear more random.
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