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Main
Date: 03 Dec 2006 09:49:03
From: tkddad
Subject: Beginner's errors?
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>I have only been playing for a few months. I tried to keep
>notes on who are at the table and study the hand history to
>try to improve my play. Any comments are greatly appreciated.
>Two hands, a few hands apart from one another. On the first
>hand, Seat 6 is a calling station. Seat 8 routinely calls the
>standard raise of 4, 5 bb with Ax. I am playing my usual
>tight game "a la" Action Dan Harrington.
>Looking at the hh, I did not bet enough on the flop and turn,
>and should have check/call after the ace came on the river.
>comments?
#Game No : 5478924117
***** Hand History for Game 5478924117 *****
$10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 03, 12:02:59 ET 2006
Table Table 125872 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: crazychriz84 ( $21 )
Seat 4: Cooolrussia ( $2.90 )
Seat 6: Foureyes118 ( $10.02 )
Seat 10: pokerhaasje ( $10.75 )
Seat 2: tkddad99 ( $10.55 )
Seat 5: Ollegator ( $1.15 )
Seat 8: qiu123 ( $6.43 )
Seat 3: poker_butler ( $6.95 )
Seat 7: TrainSurfer ( $9.45 )
Seat 9: neilcorbett ( $10 )
pokerhaasje posts small blind [$0.05].
crazychriz84 posts big blind [$0.10].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to tkddad99 [ Kh Kd ]
tkddad99 raises [$0.40]
poker_butler folds
Cooolrussia folds
Ollegator folds
Foureyes118 calls [$0.40]
TrainSurfer folds
qiu123 calls [$0.40]
pokerhaasje folds
crazychriz84 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 4d, 8s ]
tkddad99 bets [$0.80]
Foureyes118 folds
qiu123 calls [$0.80]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
tkddad99 bets [$1]
qiu123 calls [$1]
** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
tkddad99 bets [$1]
qiu123 raises [$2]
tkddad99 calls [$1]
qiu123 shows [ Kc, As ]two pairs, Aces and Eights.
tkddad99 doesn't show [ Kh, Kd ]two pairs, Kings and Eights.
qiu123 wins $8.55 from the main pot with two pairs, Aces and Eights.
>This hand came 6, 7 hands after the previous one. I must admit that
>I am still thinking about what I did wrong in the previous one when I got AQs.
>Looking at the hand history afterwards is so much easier. Seat 10
>is rather loose and seldom raise. When he reraised my AQs, I thought
>about folding but decided to see the flop.
>When I flopped tptk with a nut flush draw, I should have pushed
>all-in or at least raise the flop. Why couldn't I think of that when
>I was playing? I guess it will come with experience.
>comments?
#Game No : 5478945701
***** Hand History for Game 5478945701 *****
$10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 03, 12:13:29 ET 2006
Table Table 125872 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: crazychriz84 ( $19.60 )
Seat 4: Cooolrussia ( $0.85 )
Seat 6: Foureyes118 ( $8.32 )
Seat 10: pokerhaasje ( $10.95 )
Seat 2: tkddad99 ( $6.15 )
Seat 5: Ollegator ( $2.10 )
Seat 8: qiu123 ( $8.23 )
Seat 3: poker_butler ( $9.30 )
Seat 7: TrainSurfer ( $8.70 )
Seat 9: Meeko27 ( $1.90 )
Meeko27 posts small blind [$0.05].
pokerhaasje posts big blind [$0.10].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to tkddad99 [ As Qs ]
crazychriz84 folds
tkddad99 raises [$0.45]
poker_butler folds
Cooolrussia folds
Ollegator folds
Foureyes118 folds
TrainSurfer folds
qiu123 folds
Meeko27 folds
pokerhaasje raises [$0.70]
tkddad99 calls [$0.35]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Qc, 3s ]
pokerhaasje bets [$0.80]
tkddad99 calls [$0.80]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
pokerhaasje bets [$1.10]
tkddad99 calls [$1.10]
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
pokerhaasje bets [$2.80]
tkddad99 calls [$2.80]
pokerhaasje shows [ Ac, Kd ]a straight Ten to Ace.
tkddad99 doesn't show [ As, Qs ]two pairs, Aces and Queens.
pokerhaasje wins $10.50 from the main pot with a straight, Ten to Ace.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 13:56:43
From: Matty-o
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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>>When I flopped tptk with a nut flush draw, I should have pushed
>>all-in or at least raise the flop. Why couldn't I think of that when
>>I was playing? I guess it will come with experience.
>
Do you really think a raise would back that guy off in a $10 NL game? He
flopped a straight draw with 2 over cards. He was probably beating himself
off while he was playing. I've found that, with buy-ins that small, people
are more willing to do STUPID things, since it's seemingly worth 6 or 7
bucks to (potentially) throw a bad beat on a perfect stranger in another
time zone.
FWIW, I thought your plays were pretty much text book. Deal with the bad
beats. It WON'T be the last time that happens to you. I promise.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 20:13:27
From: Richard52
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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Gary Carson wrote:
>
> 1. This wasn't a bad beat.
>
> 2. What the guy actually had has pretty much nothing to do with anything.
>
Bad day? Mad that he didn't say Action Gary instead of Action Dan?
The guy was asking how he can push A high off a hand and you were a
little bit rough on him don't ya think?
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Date: 04 Dec
From: Gary Carson
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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On Dec 3 2006 10:13 PM, Richard52 wrote:
> Gary Carson wrote:
> >
> > 1. This wasn't a bad beat.
> >
> > 2. What the guy actually had has pretty much nothing to do with anything.
> >
>
> Bad day? Mad that he didn't say Action Gary instead of Action Dan?
> The guy was asking how he can push A high off a hand and you were a
> little bit rough on him don't ya think?
I didn't see that question. And, even if that's what he asked, why would he
want to do that? That's not the guy had at all. That was a very small part of
his hand and just happened to be the part he hit.
And, no, I wasn't rough on him at all.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 01:43:41
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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At a low level game you will find it very hard to get everyone to fold
no matter what you do. There are plenty of people at all levels that are
too stubborn or too ignorant to fold. Going all in on that first flop
might not have made him fold.
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 08:05:16
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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On Dec 3 2006 11:43 PM, ben carr wrote:
> At a low level game you will find it very hard to get everyone to fold
> no matter what you do. There are plenty of people at all levels that are
> too stubborn or too ignorant to fold. Going all in on that first flop
> might not have made him fold.
The thing is that you don't want him to fold. You are a favourite against
everything except a set or AA, but can expect to be called by Qx, AJ,
maybe AT or AK, KK, etc.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
_______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 03 Dec 22:49:11
From: Gary Carson
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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On Dec 3 2006 12:56 PM, Matty-o wrote:
> >>When I flopped tptk with a nut flush draw, I should have pushed
> >>all-in or at least raise the flop. Why couldn't I think of that when
> >>I was playing? I guess it will come with experience.
> >
>
>
> Do you really think a raise would back that guy off in a $10 NL game? He
> flopped a straight draw with 2 over cards. He was probably beating himself
> off while he was playing. I've found that, with buy-ins that small, people
> are more willing to do STUPID things, since it's seemingly worth 6 or 7
> bucks to (potentially) throw a bad beat on a perfect stranger in another
> time zone.
> FWIW, I thought your plays were pretty much text book. Deal with the bad
> beats. It WON'T be the last time that happens to you. I promise.
1. This wasn't a bad beat.
2. What the guy actually had has pretty much nothing to do with anything.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 03 Dec 17:55:17
From: Gary Carson
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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What do you mean by "study hand history".
How do you know the particular decisons you mention where mistakes?
What does the hand history tell you about those decisons that you didn't know
without the hand history?
On Dec 3 2006 11:49 AM, tkddad wrote:
> >I have only been playing for a few months. I tried to keep
> >notes on who are at the table and study the hand history to
> >try to improve my play. Any comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> >Two hands, a few hands apart from one another. On the first
> >hand, Seat 6 is a calling station. Seat 8 routinely calls the
> >standard raise of 4, 5 bb with Ax. I am playing my usual
> >tight game "a la" Action Dan Harrington.
>
> >Looking at the hh, I did not bet enough on the flop and turn,
> >and should have check/call after the ace came on the river.
>
> >comments?
>
> #Game No : 5478924117
> ***** Hand History for Game 5478924117 *****
> $10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 03, 12:02:59 ET 2006
> Table Table 125872 (Real Money)
> Seat 8 is the button
> Total number of players : 10
> Seat 1: crazychriz84 ( $21 )
> Seat 4: Cooolrussia ( $2.90 )
> Seat 6: Foureyes118 ( $10.02 )
> Seat 10: pokerhaasje ( $10.75 )
> Seat 2: tkddad99 ( $10.55 )
> Seat 5: Ollegator ( $1.15 )
> Seat 8: qiu123 ( $6.43 )
> Seat 3: poker_butler ( $6.95 )
> Seat 7: TrainSurfer ( $9.45 )
> Seat 9: neilcorbett ( $10 )
> pokerhaasje posts small blind [$0.05].
> crazychriz84 posts big blind [$0.10].
> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to tkddad99 [ Kh Kd ]
> tkddad99 raises [$0.40]
> poker_butler folds
> Cooolrussia folds
> Ollegator folds
> Foureyes118 calls [$0.40]
> TrainSurfer folds
> qiu123 calls [$0.40]
> pokerhaasje folds
> crazychriz84 folds
> ** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 4d, 8s ]
> tkddad99 bets [$0.80]
> Foureyes118 folds
> qiu123 calls [$0.80]
> ** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
> tkddad99 bets [$1]
> qiu123 calls [$1]
> ** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
> tkddad99 bets [$1]
> qiu123 raises [$2]
> tkddad99 calls [$1]
> qiu123 shows [ Kc, As ]two pairs, Aces and Eights.
> tkddad99 doesn't show [ Kh, Kd ]two pairs, Kings and Eights.
> qiu123 wins $8.55 from the main pot with two pairs, Aces and Eights.
>
> >This hand came 6, 7 hands after the previous one. I must admit that
> >I am still thinking about what I did wrong in the previous one when I got
> >AQs.
> >Looking at the hand history afterwards is so much easier. Seat 10
> >is rather loose and seldom raise. When he reraised my AQs, I thought
> >about folding but decided to see the flop.
> >When I flopped tptk with a nut flush draw, I should have pushed
> >all-in or at least raise the flop. Why couldn't I think of that when
> >I was playing? I guess it will come with experience.
>
> >comments?
>
> #Game No : 5478945701
> ***** Hand History for Game 5478945701 *****
> $10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 03, 12:13:29 ET 2006
> Table Table 125872 (Real Money)
> Seat 8 is the button
> Total number of players : 10
> Seat 1: crazychriz84 ( $19.60 )
> Seat 4: Cooolrussia ( $0.85 )
> Seat 6: Foureyes118 ( $8.32 )
> Seat 10: pokerhaasje ( $10.95 )
> Seat 2: tkddad99 ( $6.15 )
> Seat 5: Ollegator ( $2.10 )
> Seat 8: qiu123 ( $8.23 )
> Seat 3: poker_butler ( $9.30 )
> Seat 7: TrainSurfer ( $8.70 )
> Seat 9: Meeko27 ( $1.90 )
> Meeko27 posts small blind [$0.05].
> pokerhaasje posts big blind [$0.10].
> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to tkddad99 [ As Qs ]
> crazychriz84 folds
> tkddad99 raises [$0.45]
> poker_butler folds
> Cooolrussia folds
> Ollegator folds
> Foureyes118 folds
> TrainSurfer folds
> qiu123 folds
> Meeko27 folds
> pokerhaasje raises [$0.70]
> tkddad99 calls [$0.35]
> ** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Qc, 3s ]
> pokerhaasje bets [$0.80]
> tkddad99 calls [$0.80]
> ** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
> pokerhaasje bets [$1.10]
> tkddad99 calls [$1.10]
> ** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
> pokerhaasje bets [$2.80]
> tkddad99 calls [$2.80]
> pokerhaasje shows [ Ac, Kd ]a straight Ten to Ace.
> tkddad99 doesn't show [ As, Qs ]two pairs, Aces and Queens.
> pokerhaasje wins $10.50 from the main pot with a straight, Ten to Ace.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 17:20:03
From: tkddad
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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Gary Carson wrote:
> What do you mean by "study hand history".
>
> How do you know the particular decisons you mention where mistakes?
>
> What does the hand history tell you about those decisons that you didn't know
> without the hand history?
>
I looked at hand history mostly on hands where I got
busted out of tournaments or hands with big pots(
for my stake, that is) to see if I could have done
things differently. Having to make correct decision
on the fly with only 20 seconds to act is quite a
task.
I have read many poker books including yours, Gary.
Being able to put your opponent on a hand is not an
easy task. After he bets, I open up his notes to
look up his previous starting hands, betting pattern,
calculating my number of outs and pot odds, think about
what he could have and I am almost out of time.
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Date: 04 Dec
From: Gary Carson
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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On Dec 3 2006 7:20 PM, tkddad wrote:
> Gary Carson wrote:
> > What do you mean by "study hand history".
> >
> > How do you know the particular decisons you mention where mistakes?
> >
> > What does the hand history tell you about those decisons that you didn't
> > know
> > without the hand history?
> >
>
> I looked at hand history mostly on hands where I got
> busted out of tournaments or hands with big pots(
> for my stake, that is) to see if I could have done
> things differently. Having to make correct decision
> on the fly with only 20 seconds to act is quite a
> task.
>
> I have read many poker books including yours, Gary.
> Being able to put your opponent on a hand is not an
> easy task. After he bets, I open up his notes to
> look up his previous starting hands, betting pattern,
> calculating my number of outs and pot odds, think about
> what he could have and I am almost out of time.
Hands that you bust out on are almost never the hands that bust you out.
Key hands aren't the big pots, key hands are the tough decisions.
You always could have done something differently, you don't need hand histories
for that.
Trying to put a player on a hand is usually a mistake, what's important is
putting him on a range of hands.
The hand history might be useful in checking to see if the hand he actually had
is in the range of hands you put him on. It's a mistake to look at the exact
hand he had and then evaulate your behavior based on that.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 11:59:13
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Beginner's errors?
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On Dec 3 2006 10:49 AM, tkddad wrote:
> >I have only been playing for a few months. I tried to keep
> >notes on who are at the table and study the hand history to
> >try to improve my play. Any comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> >Two hands, a few hands apart from one another. On the first
> >hand, Seat 6 is a calling station. Seat 8 routinely calls the
> >standard raise of 4, 5 bb with Ax. I am playing my usual
> >tight game "a la" Action Dan Harrington.
>
> >Looking at the hh, I did not bet enough on the flop and turn,
> >and should have check/call after the ace came on the river.
>
> >comments?
>
> #Game No : 5478924117
> ***** Hand History for Game 5478924117 *****
> $10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 03, 12:02:59 ET 2006
> Table Table 125872 (Real Money)
> Seat 8 is the button
> Total number of players : 10
> Seat 1: crazychriz84 ( $21 )
> Seat 4: Cooolrussia ( $2.90 )
> Seat 6: Foureyes118 ( $10.02 )
> Seat 10: pokerhaasje ( $10.75 )
> Seat 2: tkddad99 ( $10.55 )
> Seat 5: Ollegator ( $1.15 )
> Seat 8: qiu123 ( $6.43 )
> Seat 3: poker_butler ( $6.95 )
> Seat 7: TrainSurfer ( $9.45 )
> Seat 9: neilcorbett ( $10 )
> pokerhaasje posts small blind [$0.05].
> crazychriz84 posts big blind [$0.10].
> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to tkddad99 [ Kh Kd ]
> tkddad99 raises [$0.40]
I'd go ahead and raise even more in these games, simply because you will
get called.
> poker_butler folds
> Cooolrussia folds
> Ollegator folds
> Foureyes118 calls [$0.40]
> TrainSurfer folds
> qiu123 calls [$0.40]
> pokerhaasje folds
> crazychriz84 folds
> ** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 4d, 8s ]
> tkddad99 bets [$0.80]
Bet more.
> Foureyes118 folds
> qiu123 calls [$0.80]
> ** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
> tkddad99 bets [$1]
Bet more.
> qiu123 calls [$1]
> ** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
> tkddad99 bets [$1]
Don't bet.
> qiu123 raises [$2]
> tkddad99 calls [$1]
> qiu123 shows [ Kc, As ]two pairs, Aces and Eights.
> tkddad99 doesn't show [ Kh, Kd ]two pairs, Kings and Eights.
> qiu123 wins $8.55 from the main pot with two pairs, Aces and Eights.
>
> >This hand came 6, 7 hands after the previous one. I must admit that
> >I am still thinking about what I did wrong in the previous one when I got
AQs.
> >Looking at the hand history afterwards is so much easier. Seat 10
> >is rather loose and seldom raise. When he reraised my AQs, I thought
> >about folding but decided to see the flop.
> >When I flopped tptk with a nut flush draw, I should have pushed
> >all-in or at least raise the flop. Why couldn't I think of that when
> >I was playing? I guess it will come with experience.
>
> >comments?
>
> #Game No : 5478945701
> ***** Hand History for Game 5478945701 *****
> $10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 03, 12:13:29 ET 2006
> Table Table 125872 (Real Money)
> Seat 8 is the button
> Total number of players : 10
> Seat 1: crazychriz84 ( $19.60 )
> Seat 4: Cooolrussia ( $0.85 )
> Seat 6: Foureyes118 ( $8.32 )
> Seat 10: pokerhaasje ( $10.95 )
> Seat 2: tkddad99 ( $6.15 )
> Seat 5: Ollegator ( $2.10 )
> Seat 8: qiu123 ( $8.23 )
> Seat 3: poker_butler ( $9.30 )
> Seat 7: TrainSurfer ( $8.70 )
> Seat 9: Meeko27 ( $1.90 )
> Meeko27 posts small blind [$0.05].
> pokerhaasje posts big blind [$0.10].
> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to tkddad99 [ As Qs ]
> crazychriz84 folds
> tkddad99 raises [$0.45]
> poker_butler folds
> Cooolrussia folds
> Ollegator folds
> Foureyes118 folds
> TrainSurfer folds
> qiu123 folds
> Meeko27 folds
> pokerhaasje raises [$0.70]
> tkddad99 calls [$0.35]
> ** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Qc, 3s ]
> pokerhaasje bets [$0.80]
> tkddad99 calls [$0.80]
Go all-in.
> ** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
> pokerhaasje bets [$1.10]
> tkddad99 calls [$1.10]
> ** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
> pokerhaasje bets [$2.80]
> tkddad99 calls [$2.80]
> pokerhaasje shows [ Ac, Kd ]a straight Ten to Ace.
> tkddad99 doesn't show [ As, Qs ]two pairs, Aces and Queens.
> pokerhaasje wins $10.50 from the main pot with a straight, Ten to Ace.
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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