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Date: 17 Dec 2006 06:20:16
From: PokerClash
Subject: Bad Play ?
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Hi there,
i play hold'em for about 4 month and accepted, that losing ist part of
the game. But everytime i'm loosing much money, i ask myself if i
played wrong or was it just bad luck.
What's your opinion on that:
Was in middle Position, Blinds .50$/1$, 9 Players.
Got Ace, Queen Suited (Spades)
I opened with a raise to 4$
The player to my left and 2 more player called
So potsize is 17$
Flop comes Ac, 7s, Kh
Flopped Top Pair with a good kicker as i thought.
First Player checks
I want to "protect" my hand and bet 10$
Player to my left called, the others fold (37$ in Pot)
10h as turn, again i bet 10$ and got raised by the player on the left
to 20$, i call.
2s on the river.
I have not much money left (12$ so i go all in).
Perhaps you imagine, that he has Ace,King, two pair.
Where should i have folded ? How would you have played that hand ? "Bad
play" or "Bad Beat" ?
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 10:31:53
From: Grip
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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AQ is not a well-liked hand because it is easily dominated by AK.
Playing out of position sucks.
Be aware of the size of your stack in relation to the pot.
On the turn, there's $37 in the pot. You've got $32 in your stack.
The min raise on the $10 bet should have indicated you were beat either
w AK, AT, or 7s. He wants you to call. And if you don't hit on the
river, are you really going to fold to save your last a $10 bet into a
$110 pot? Fold to the min re on the turn.
G
> Was in middle Position, Blinds .50$/1$, 9 Players.
> Got Ace, Queen Suited (Spades)
> I opened with a raise to 4$
> The player to my left and 2 more player called
> So potsize is 17$
> Flop comes Ac, 7s, Kh
> Flopped Top Pair with a good kicker as i thought.
> First Player checks
> I want to "protect" my hand and bet 10$
> Player to my left called, the others fold (37$ in Pot)
> 10h as turn, again i bet 10$ and got raised by the player on the left
> to 20$, i call.
> 2s on the river.
> I have not much money left (12$ so i go all in).
>
> Perhaps you imagine, that he has Ace,King, two pair.
>
> Where should i have folded ? How would you have played that hand ? "Bad
> play" or "Bad Beat" ?
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 10:22:36
From: David Nicoson
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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PokerClash wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> i play hold'em for about 4 month and accepted, that losing ist part of
> the game. But everytime i'm loosing much money, i ask myself if i
> played wrong or was it just bad luck.
Every time you win money, ask yourself if you played well or just got
lucky.
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 10:18:06
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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This hand shows the problem of position.
After you have placed the 4x preflop raise, what kinds of hands are
*calling* at your table?
After you make it 10 bucks on the flop, which looks like a continuation
bet, what kind of hands are *calling* here?
Unless you have the nuts, you MUST answer that question. Then you can
decide what to do next. If you think you are beat, can you move the guy
off the hand? If you are beat, and you can't move the guy off the
hand, you must stop putting money into the pot.
If you think you MIGHT be ahead, but you are not sure, can you move the
guy off the pot. If not, how do you control the size of the pot, to
minimize risk.
If you are ahead, how do you get the most money, how risky is the hand.
Do you have to take it right now? Can you take it right now?
I personally think you believed you had a much stronger hand than your
opponent, and you lost when you didn't. Which I think shows NLHE
inexperience. TPTK (top pair, top kicker) out of position is a common
way to get stacked off in NLHE, you need to be MOST aware of what is
going on in this kind of hand or you may find yourself reloading.
(A side note, if you do drop this hand, NEVER show it. Never ever show
you are capable of a big lay down).
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 09:02:34
From: PokerClash
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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Thanks. It's hard to let a hand go when you've invested so much and the
pot-Odds seem to be good.
I will think about that.
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 08:27:44
From: storman99
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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$10 was to low on the flop .
loose chasers will allways call
$20 would have been better
if he called that you got to look at trips, two pair (i would say A7)
or Ax
then from there you got to look at the player is he loose are tight
if tight check it down then fold to his river bet if he bets
if loose go allin
because that bet you made on the turn was dumb . tight, loose and draw
hands players would have called
if you feel you have to bet there allin would have been better. that
may fold the loose player.
but if the tight player calls you lose.
,
.
.
PokerClash wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> i play hold'em for about 4 month and accepted, that losing ist part of
> the game. But everytime i'm loosing much money, i ask myself if i
> played wrong or was it just bad luck.
>
> What's your opinion on that:
>
> Was in middle Position, Blinds .50$/1$, 9 Players.
> Got Ace, Queen Suited (Spades)
> I opened with a raise to 4$
> The player to my left and 2 more player called
> So potsize is 17$
> Flop comes Ac, 7s, Kh
> Flopped Top Pair with a good kicker as i thought.
> First Player checks
> I want to "protect" my hand and bet 10$
> Player to my left called, the others fold (37$ in Pot)
> 10h as turn, again i bet 10$ and got raised by the player on the left
> to 20$, i call.
> 2s on the river.
> I have not much money left (12$ so i go all in).
>
> Perhaps you imagine, that he has Ace,King, two pair.
>
> Where should i have folded ? How would you have played that hand ? "Bad
> play" or "Bad Beat" ?
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 13:03:07
From: TwoMinutes
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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No, there's nothing PokerClash could do. The other guy had top two pair,
he wasn't going anywhere.
chalk it up as 2nd best hand, walk it off, and get back out there.
On Dec 17 2006 11:27 AM, storman99 wrote:
> $10 was to low on the flop .
> loose chasers will allways call
> $20 would have been better
> if he called that you got to look at trips, two pair (i would say A7)
> or Ax
> then from there you got to look at the player is he loose are tight
> if tight check it down then fold to his river bet if he bets
> if loose go allin
> because that bet you made on the turn was dumb . tight, loose and draw
> hands players would have called
> if you feel you have to bet there allin would have been better. that
> may fold the loose player.
> but if the tight player calls you lose.
> ,
> .
> ..
>
> PokerClash wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > i play hold'em for about 4 month and accepted, that losing ist part of
> > the game. But everytime i'm loosing much money, i ask myself if i
> > played wrong or was it just bad luck.
> >
> > What's your opinion on that:
> >
> > Was in middle Position, Blinds .50$/1$, 9 Players.
> > Got Ace, Queen Suited (Spades)
> > I opened with a raise to 4$
> > The player to my left and 2 more player called
> > So potsize is 17$
> > Flop comes Ac, 7s, Kh
> > Flopped Top Pair with a good kicker as i thought.
> > First Player checks
> > I want to "protect" my hand and bet 10$
> > Player to my left called, the others fold (37$ in Pot)
> > 10h as turn, again i bet 10$ and got raised by the player on the left
> > to 20$, i call.
> > 2s on the river.
> > I have not much money left (12$ so i go all in).
> >
> > Perhaps you imagine, that he has Ace,King, two pair.
> >
> > Where should i have folded ? How would you have played that hand ? "Bad
> > play" or "Bad Beat" ?
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 01:46:41
From: ben carr
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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You cant really be sure what they have. Poker is a people game,
especially holdem. Its not just about the cards and what the flop is.
You should ask yourself what those guys are willing to call you with.
Are they call stations that call everything? Are they tight and call
only with a strong hand? Are they usually trapping when they call? This
type of information is what you need to evaluate the hand and to play it
the way it should be. Forget the "i had these cards and the flop was
this" kind of thing. Focus on the players a little more.
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 11:48:40
From: phlash74
Subject: Re: Bad Play ?
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On Dec 17, 6:20 am, "PokerClash" <m...@muehleis.com > wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> i play hold'em for about 4 month and accepted, that losing ist part of
> the game. But everytime i'm loosing much money, i ask myself if i
> played wrong or was it just bad luck.
>
> What's your opinion on that:
>
> Was in middle Position, Blinds .50$/1$, 9 Players.
> Got Ace, Queen Suited (Spades)
> I opened with a raise to 4$
> The player to my left and 2 more player called
> So potsize is 17$
> Flop comes Ac, 7s, Kh
> Flopped Top Pair with a good kicker as i thought.
> First Player checks
> I want to "protect" my hand and bet 10$
> Player to my left called, the others fold (37$ in Pot)
> 10h as turn, again i bet 10$ and got raised by the player on the left
> to 20$, i call.
> 2s on the river.
> I have not much money left (12$ so i go all in).
>
> Perhaps you imagine, that he has Ace,King, two pair.
>
> Where should i have folded ? How would you have played that hand ? "Bad
> play" or "Bad Beat" ?
Preflop is OK. Based on your description, you got two callers behind
you and the SB as well. Your position isn't great for this type of
hand. I think you should bet a little more on the flop, say $15. When
the opponent to your left calls this bet, you have a situation where
he's likely got you beat. Think about it. The flop doesn't offer much
in the way of draws (rainbow board with only a gutshot draw to an Ace
high straight even possible), so a caller has to have a piece of the
flop here. While it is possible they might have top pair lower kicker
(such as AJ), a hand such as two pair or a set seems more likely to
call your bet in order to get you to commit the rest of your money,
while your typical donkey with AJ will push over the top on the flop
thinking his hand is good. I would probably check the turn, and unless
it was a spade giving me a flush draw, if my opponent put me all-in
there, I would likely muck unless I knew he was prone to overplaying
Aces with weaker kickers.
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