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Main
Date: 17 Dec 2006 11:22:21
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
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Hi, we started a discussion on Cincy's redo thread, but it fell to the
bottom and I'm not sure you saw my replies. I was interested in your
rebuttal.
I said: I'm sure I am only saying this because I don't drink...it doesn't
effect
> me well, but I agree. If you're not an alcoholic, why bother even having
> one or two? I guess I just can't relate. I'd rather smoke a bowl than
> have a beer. I think it's healthier anyway.
You said: Because....? The available evidence certainly doesn't back that
conclusion up.
I said: I think it does.
Cannibus - Negative Effects:
NEGATIVE
Nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or
other psychoactives
coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of
frequent use
racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
mild to severe anxiety
panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
headaches
dizziness, confusion
paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
possible psychological dependence on cannabis
"mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may
last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety,
anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general
unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.
Clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
in there...
Now Alcohol - Negative Effects:
NEGATIVE
decreased coordination
nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
reduced impulse control
emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
dizziness and confusion
blackouts and memory loss at high doses
coma and death at extreme doses
brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and
negative sexual encounters (date rape)
hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
fetus damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
Yeah.... which one's harmless now?
Source: Erowid.org
Erowid is a member-supported organization providing access to reliable,
non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and
related issues. We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
to develop and publish new resources, as well as to improve and increase
access to already existing resources. We also strive to ensure that these
resources are maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
future.
I will even admit that I have experienced some of the side effect listed
from pot, including coughing, short term memory loss, psycological
dependence and mild withdrawal symptoms. I only smoke a few times a month
when with friends now. Mostly that was a financial decision, with good
pot being about $400 an ounce where I live.
I still can't imagine it having worse effect than from alcohol. Would you
care to post your evidence, since you aver that you have it.
----
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 17:18:16
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:22:21 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com > wrote:
>Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
>in there...
Most of the negative physical side effects from pot can be eliminated by eating
it or using a vaporizer instead of burning it. Inhaling smoke is always bad.
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Date: 17 Dec 20:00:55
From: Gary Carson
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
I've seen evidence that pot smoking .tends to have permanant loss of short term
memory. Something to do with effects on still developing brains. There's no
such evidence of such long term effects on fully developed brains.
There is evidence that beer has some propholactic value for things like heart
problems and although pot has some medicinal value as a treatment of some
things, I don't think it has any propholactic value.
On Dec 17 2006 1:22 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> Hi, we started a discussion on Cincy's redo thread, but it fell to the
> bottom and I'm not sure you saw my replies. I was interested in your
> rebuttal.
>
> I said: I'm sure I am only saying this because I don't drink...it doesn't
> effect
> > me well, but I agree. If you're not an alcoholic, why bother even having
> > one or two? I guess I just can't relate. I'd rather smoke a bowl than
> > have a beer. I think it's healthier anyway.
>
> You said: Because....? The available evidence certainly doesn't back that
> conclusion up.
>
> I said: I think it does.
>
> Cannibus - Negative Effects:
>
> NEGATIVE
>
> Nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or
> other psychoactives
> coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
> difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of
> frequent use
> racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
> mild to severe anxiety
> panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
> headaches
> dizziness, confusion
> paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
> possible psychological dependence on cannabis
> "mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may
> last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety,
> anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general
> unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.
> Clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
>
>
> Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
> in there...
>
> Now Alcohol - Negative Effects:
>
> NEGATIVE
> decreased coordination
> nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
> reduced impulse control
> emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
> frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
> dizziness and confusion
> blackouts and memory loss at high doses
> coma and death at extreme doses
> brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
> lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and
> negative sexual encounters (date rape)
> hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
> fetus damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
>
>
> Yeah.... which one's harmless now?
>
> Source: Erowid.org
>
> Erowid is a member-supported organization providing access to reliable,
> non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and
> related issues. We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
> to develop and publish new resources, as well as to improve and increase
> access to already existing resources. We also strive to ensure that these
> resources are maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
> future.
>
>
> I will even admit that I have experienced some of the side effect listed
> from pot, including coughing, short term memory loss, psycological
> dependence and mild withdrawal symptoms. I only smoke a few times a month
> when with friends now. Mostly that was a financial decision, with good
> pot being about $400 an ounce where I live.
>
> I still can't imagine it having worse effect than from alcohol. Would you
> care to post your evidence, since you aver that you have it.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 13:44:19
From: Lynx
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
> There is evidence that beer has some propholactic value for things like heart
> problems
Alcohol in general reduces levels of LDL (low density lipoproteins), which
contain the so-called "bad cholesterol". As such, it reduces hardening of
the arteries, reduces the risk of stroke, and promotes overall
cardiovascular health. Some alcoholic beverages, red wine in particular,
will also temporarily reduce blood pressure—which for most people is a
positive thing.
Routine consumption of alcohol IN MODERATION (typically about 1 or 2
drinks a day—without binging) is considered by many, including those in
the medical profession, to be healthier than not drinking at all.
(However, highly excessive consumption of alcohol can have severe negative
effects. Those that can't control their intake would be better off not
drinking at all.)
________________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 22:40:05
From: Bill Clark
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
"Lynx" <a16a9@webnntp.invalid > wrote in
news:jaqg54xvu3.ln2@recgroups.com:
> Routine consumption of alcohol IN MODERATION (typically about 1 or
> 2 drinks a day—without binging) is considered by many, including
> those in the medical profession, to be healthier than not drinking
> at all.
There was a time when this was considered true for cigarettes...
--
-bc-
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 12:34:13
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
On Dec 17 2006 3:00 PM, Gary Carson wrote:
> I've seen evidence that pot smoking .tends to have permanant loss of short
term
> memory. Something to do with effects on still developing brains. There's no
> such evidence of such long term effects on fully developed brains.
>
> There is evidence that beer has some propholactic value for things like heart
> problems and although pot has some medicinal value as a treatment of some
> things, I don't think it has any propholactic value.
Funny, alcohol tends to lead to unwanted pregnancies with ugly, fat
chicks. Propholactic value? I think not! :)
> On Dec 17 2006 1:22 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> > Hi, we started a discussion on Cincy's redo thread, but it fell to the
> > bottom and I'm not sure you saw my replies. I was interested in your
> > rebuttal.
> >
> > I said: I'm sure I am only saying this because I don't drink...it doesn't
> > effect
> > > me well, but I agree. If you're not an alcoholic, why bother even having
> > > one or two? I guess I just can't relate. I'd rather smoke a bowl than
> > > have a beer. I think it's healthier anyway.
> >
> > You said: Because....? The available evidence certainly doesn't back that
> > conclusion up.
> >
> > I said: I think it does.
> >
> > Cannibus - Negative Effects:
> >
> > NEGATIVE
> >
> > Nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or
> > other psychoactives
> > coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
> > difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of
> > frequent use
> > racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
> > mild to severe anxiety
> > panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
> > headaches
> > dizziness, confusion
> > paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
> > possible psychological dependence on cannabis
> > "mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may
> > last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety,
> > anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general
> > unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.
> > Clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
> >
> >
> > Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
> > in there...
> >
> > Now Alcohol - Negative Effects:
> >
> > NEGATIVE
> > decreased coordination
> > nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
> > reduced impulse control
> > emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
> > frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
> > dizziness and confusion
> > blackouts and memory loss at high doses
> > coma and death at extreme doses
> > brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
> > lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and
> > negative sexual encounters (date rape)
> > hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
> > fetus damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
> >
> >
> > Yeah.... which one's harmless now?
> >
> > Source: Erowid.org
> >
> > Erowid is a member-supported organization providing access to reliable,
> > non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and
> > related issues. We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
> > to develop and publish new resources, as well as to improve and increase
> > access to already existing resources. We also strive to ensure that these
> > resources are maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
> > future.
> >
> >
> > I will even admit that I have experienced some of the side effect listed
> > from pot, including coughing, short term memory loss, psycological
> > dependence and mild withdrawal symptoms. I only smoke a few times a month
> > when with friends now. Mostly that was a financial decision, with good
> > pot being about $400 an ounce where I live.
> >
> > I still can't imagine it having worse effect than from alcohol. Would you
> > care to post your evidence, since you aver that you have it.
> Gary Carson
> http://www.garycarson.com
________________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
|
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 13:47:11
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
"pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com > wrote in message
news:d0ig54xah3.ln2@recgroups.com...
> Hi, we started a discussion on Cincy's redo thread, but it fell to the
> bottom and I'm not sure you saw my replies. I was interested in your
> rebuttal.
>
> I said: I'm sure I am only saying this because I don't drink...it doesn't
> effect
>> me well, but I agree. If you're not an alcoholic, why bother even having
>> one or two? I guess I just can't relate. I'd rather smoke a bowl than
>> have a beer. I think it's healthier anyway.
>
> You said: Because....? The available evidence certainly doesn't back
> that
> conclusion up.
>
> I said: I think it does.
>
> Cannibus - Negative Effects:
>
> NEGATIVE
>
> Nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or
> other psychoactives
> coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
> difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of
> frequent use
> racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
> mild to severe anxiety
> panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
> headaches
> dizziness, confusion
> paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
> possible psychological dependence on cannabis
> "mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may
> last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety,
> anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general
> unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.
> Clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
>
>
> Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
> in there...
>
> Now Alcohol - Negative Effects:
>
> NEGATIVE
> decreased coordination
> nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
> reduced impulse control
> emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
> frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
> dizziness and confusion
> blackouts and memory loss at high doses
> coma and death at extreme doses
> brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
> lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and
> negative sexual encounters (date rape)
> hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
> fetus damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
>
>
> Yeah.... which one's harmless now?
>
> Source: Erowid.org
>
> Erowid is a member-supported organization providing access to reliable,
> non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and
> related issues. We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
> to develop and publish new resources, as well as to improve and increase
> access to already existing resources. We also strive to ensure that these
> resources are maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
> future.
>
>
> I will even admit that I have experienced some of the side effect listed
> from pot, including coughing, short term memory loss, psycological
> dependence and mild withdrawal symptoms. I only smoke a few times a month
> when with friends now. Mostly that was a financial decision, with good
> pot being about $400 an ounce where I live.
>
> I still can't imagine it having worse effect than from alcohol. Would you
> care to post your evidence, since you aver that you have it.
>
> ----
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Not to mention the incidental negative effect of drunk driving accidents.
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 11:19:19
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
WuzYoungOnceToo wrote:
> My apologies for not responding to your posts in the original thread.
> I was out of town on a 3-day deer hunt (a completely unsuccessful one,
> I might add.)
>
That depends on your point of view - it sounds extremely successful for
the deer!
- Bob T.
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 10:14:47
From: WuzYoungOnceToo
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
On Dec 18, 10:37 am, "pokerchimp" <mixth...@se.rr.com > wrote:
>
> Sorry your deer hunting was unsuccessful.
Not to worry. Any time spent in the woods (and not in the office) is
time well spent.
> That comment was part of the
> original cut and paste fromhttp://forums.di.fm/showthread.php?t=30027,
> which is where I got the erowid info which I then confirmed at erowid.com.
> I agree that statement is childish, and I didn't see it in my original
> cut/paste. As for consumption rates, in my mind we were specifically
> discussing Cincy's consumption rates. Since he is an admitted alcoholic,
> that suggests to me his consumption rates are in the unhealthy category.
I did not realize that was implied in your statement. It sounded more
like a generalization. So, if we assume excessive consumption of
either substance then, by definition we're talking about unhealthy
consumption. That's true of everything from greasy cheeseburgers to
water. (Yes, pure H2O is toxic in excessive quantities.)
> As far as the benefits of marijuana, the following site lists several, but
> it is probably a propaganda site.
>
> http://www.benefitsofmarijuana.com/benefits.html
>
> Also when I said I thought smoking a bowl of pot was healthier, I meant
> less unhealthy.
So then you were comparing "smoking a bowl" of pot with binge alcohol
consumption? Well, sure...in those terms the pot is going to be far
less dangerous. Are you also comparing smoking and not driving...with
drinking AND driving? In most of the posts it has certainly sounded
like that. I don't think an apples-to-apples comparison has occured
yet.
> I guess I will have to be more specific in the future.
> Other than glaucoma, I know that pot is used to relieve nausea caused by
> cancer and chemo, and that it increases the appetite and helps patients
> gain weight, which could be lifesaving in AIDS.
As already pointed out, moderate, responsible alcohol consumption
(especially wine, though not limited to it) is not only non-toxic, it
appears to confer multiple health benefits (reduction of risk of heart
disease, cancer, hypertension, etc.) Of course the research is still
inconclusive on the matter.
In this case a meaningful comparison of the dangers of the two
substances cannot occur without including usage and other factors. I
have a glass or two of wine with dinner each night at home, and do not
drive anywhere. I also have no family or personal history of substance
abuse. Am I in greater danger than the individual who "smokes a bowl"
and then drives a car? What about those individuals who smoke several
bowls per day and are prone to lung ailments?
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 08:00:29
From: WuzYoungOnceToo
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
My apologies for not responding to your posts in the original thread.
I was out of town on a 3-day deer hunt (a completely unsuccessful one,
I might add.)
On Dec 18, 8:27 am, "pokerchimp" <mixth...@se.rr.com > wrote:
>
> It doesn't John. Was originally addressing Cincy's problem with alcohol.
> Some said he should cut down, others were saying how hard that was to do,
> and that it was easier to stop. I said that I thought smoking a bowl was
> healthier. Wuzyoungoncetoo said to prove it.
I didn't ask you to "prove" anything. I asked you why you believe what
you do.
> I feel I presented a good case.
Not really. There's nothing in your single cite that should lead one
to conclude that pot is "healthier" (as opposed to "less
harmful"...there's a difference) than alcohol, especially given that
such a simplistic blanket statement completely ignores most of the
variables involved (like consumption rates, etc.) Others have already
cited the current research regarding the positive health benefits of
moderate alcohol consumption. Unless one is suffering from glaucoma,
what are the positive health benefits derived from moderate smoking of
marijuana?
As for the charge by another poster that your comments are seeming
"less intelligent", perhaps it has something to do with sophomoric,
irrelevant retorts like...
"Yeah.... which one's harmless now?"
That statement has nothing to do with anything I said, and sounds like
nothing but a childish taunt.
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 08:37:25
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
Sorry your deer hunting was unsuccessful. That comment was part of the
original cut and paste from http://forums.di.fm/showthread.php?t=30027 ,
which is where I got the erowid info which I then confirmed at erowid.com.
I agree that statement is childish, and I didn't see it in my original
cut/paste. As for consumption rates, in my mind we were specifically
discussing Cincy's consumption rates. Since he is an admitted alcoholic,
that suggests to me his consumption rates are in the unhealthy category.
As far as the benefits of marijuana, the following site lists several, but
it is probably a propaganda site.
http://www.benefitsofmarijuana.com/benefits.html
Also when I said I thought smoking a bowl of pot was healthier, I meant
less unhealthy. I guess I will have to be more specific in the future.
Other than glaucoma, I know that pot is used to relieve nausea caused by
cancer and chemo, and that it increases the appetite and helps patients
gain weight, which could be lifesaving in AIDS.
On Dec 18 2006 11:00 AM, WuzYoungOnceToo wrote:
> My apologies for not responding to your posts in the original thread.
> I was out of town on a 3-day deer hunt (a completely unsuccessful one,
> I might add.)
>
> On Dec 18, 8:27 am, "pokerchimp" <mixth...@se.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > It doesn't John. Was originally addressing Cincy's problem with alcohol.
> > Some said he should cut down, others were saying how hard that was to do,
> > and that it was easier to stop. I said that I thought smoking a bowl was
> > healthier. Wuzyoungoncetoo said to prove it.
>
> I didn't ask you to "prove" anything. I asked you why you believe what
> you do.
>
> > I feel I presented a good case.
>
> Not really. There's nothing in your single cite that should lead one
> to conclude that pot is "healthier" (as opposed to "less
> harmful"...there's a difference) than alcohol, especially given that
> such a simplistic blanket statement completely ignores most of the
> variables involved (like consumption rates, etc.) Others have already
> cited the current research regarding the positive health benefits of
> moderate alcohol consumption. Unless one is suffering from glaucoma,
> what are the positive health benefits derived from moderate smoking of
> marijuana?
>
> As for the charge by another poster that your comments are seeming
> "less intelligent", perhaps it has something to do with sophomoric,
> irrelevant retorts like...
>
> "Yeah.... which one's harmless now?"
>
> That statement has nothing to do with anything I said, and sounds like
> nothing but a childish taunt.
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
____________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| | | |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 19:16:34
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
"pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com > wrote in message
news:5nsi54xth9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> Sorry your deer hunting was unsuccessful.
That's no surprise to me that you are sorry his murder expedition was
unsuccessful. I knew you two think alike anyway. Same kind of logic
process. Same intellect. Same ruthlessness. I'm seriously considering
killfiling both of you.
-Paul Popinjay
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 12:08:06
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
gee Paul, I wish you would
On Dec 18 2006 2:16 PM, Paul Popinjay wrote:
> "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:5nsi54xth9.ln2@recgroups.com...
>
> > Sorry your deer hunting was unsuccessful.
>
>
> That's no surprise to me that you are sorry his murder expedition was
> unsuccessful. I knew you two think alike anyway. Same kind of logic
> process. Same intellect. Same ruthlessness. I'm seriously considering
> killfiling both of you.
>
> -Paul Popinjay
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
-----
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 05:03:27
From:
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
Why does it have to be an either/or question?
John Harkness
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 06:27:05
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
It doesn't John. Was originally addressing Cincy's problem with alcohol.
Some said he should cut down, others were saying how hard that was to do,
and that it was easier to stop. I said that I thought smoking a bowl was
healthier. Wuzyoungoncetoo said to prove it. I feel I presented a good
case. We are discussing it. That is all.
On Dec 18 2006 8:03 AM, caliban43 wrote:
> Why does it have to be an either/or question?
>
> John Harkness
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
-------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
|
| |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 03:54:07
From: Will_gamble
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
They did a study and found that chocolate produces many of the same
effects as marijuana, they just couldn't remember what they were.
I had a friend that went with another guy to Mexico and bought a pound.
Upon their return they decided to smoke one joint every hour for a whole
day. Late that night my friend was driving down a country road when his
buddy asked him if he wanted him to drive. My buddy said "no, what is
wrong with my driving?" His friend proceeded to open the door and started
walking beside the car. (He was so stoned, he was creeping along)
Compare that to somebody that is blitzed on alcohol and he would be much
more dangerous behind the wheel.
I smoked non stop for about 8 years after being in Vietnam. Now I just do
it when I go to Jamaica. Alcohol is just too convenient.
---
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 03:14:49
From: Douglas Dunn
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
pokerchimp wrote:
> Hi, we started a discussion on Cincy's redo thread, but it fell to the
> bottom and I'm not sure you saw my replies. I was interested in your
> rebuttal.
>
> I said: I'm sure I am only saying this because I don't drink...it doesn't
> effect
> > me well, but I agree. If you're not an alcoholic, why bother even having
> > one or two? I guess I just can't relate. I'd rather smoke a bowl than
> > have a beer. I think it's healthier anyway.
>
> You said: Because....? The available evidence certainly doesn't back that
> conclusion up.
>
> I said: I think it does.
>
> Cannibus - Negative Effects:
>
> NEGATIVE
>
> Nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or
> other psychoactives
> coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
> difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of
> frequent use
> racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
> mild to severe anxiety
> panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
> headaches
> dizziness, confusion
> paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
> possible psychological dependence on cannabis
> "mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may
> last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety,
> anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general
> unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.
> Clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
>
>
> Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
> in there...
>
> Now Alcohol - Negative Effects:
>
> NEGATIVE
> decreased coordination
> nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
> reduced impulse control
> emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
> frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
> dizziness and confusion
> blackouts and memory loss at high doses
> coma and death at extreme doses
> brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
> lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and
> negative sexual encounters (date rape)
> hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
> fetus damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
>
>
> Yeah.... which one's harmless now?
>
> Source: Erowid.org
>
> Erowid is a member-supported organization providing access to reliable,
> non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and
> related issues. We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
> to develop and publish new resources, as well as to improve and increase
> access to already existing resources. We also strive to ensure that these
> resources are maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
> future.
>
>
> I will even admit that I have experienced some of the side effect listed
> from pot, including coughing, short term memory loss, psycological
> dependence and mild withdrawal symptoms. I only smoke a few times a month
> when with friends now. Mostly that was a financial decision, with good
> pot being about $400 an ounce where I live.
>
> I still can't imagine it having worse effect than from alcohol. Would you
> care to post your evidence, since you aver that you have it.
>
> ----
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
The majority of your negative effects of alcohol only occur when you
take in extreme amounts. I used to believe that pot was harmless as
well, but after 30+ years of recreational smoking my stepmom has turned
from being able to command an intellectual conversation to a near brain
dead embarassement. I've since changed my oppinion. As a side note
pc, your posts have struck me as less and less intelligent over time.
Could just be a coincidence I guess.
Doug
|
| | |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 06:23:11
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
On Dec 18 2006 6:14 AM, Douglas Dunn wrote:
> pokerchimp wrote:
> > Hi, we started a discussion on Cincy's redo thread, but it fell to the
> > bottom and I'm not sure you saw my replies. I was interested in your
> > rebuttal.
> >
> > I said: I'm sure I am only saying this because I don't drink...it doesn't
> > effect
> > > me well, but I agree. If you're not an alcoholic, why bother even having
> > > one or two? I guess I just can't relate. I'd rather smoke a bowl than
> > > have a beer. I think it's healthier anyway.
> >
> > You said: Because....? The available evidence certainly doesn't back that
> > conclusion up.
> >
> > I said: I think it does.
> >
> > Cannibus - Negative Effects:
> >
> > NEGATIVE
> >
> > Nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or
> > other psychoactives
> > coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
> > difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of
> > frequent use
> > racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
> > mild to severe anxiety
> > panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
> > headaches
> > dizziness, confusion
> > paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
> > possible psychological dependence on cannabis
> > "mild" withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may
> > last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety,
> > anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general
> > unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot.
> > Clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
> >
> >
> > Ok... not the best... but nothing truely dangerous... death isn't anywhere
> > in there...
> >
> > Now Alcohol - Negative Effects:
> >
> > NEGATIVE
> > decreased coordination
> > nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
> > reduced impulse control
> > emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
> > frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
> > dizziness and confusion
> > blackouts and memory loss at high doses
> > coma and death at extreme doses
> > brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
> > lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and
> > negative sexual encounters (date rape)
> > hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
> > fetus damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
> >
> >
> > Yeah.... which one's harmless now?
> >
> > Source: Erowid.org
> >
> > Erowid is a member-supported organization providing access to reliable,
> > non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and
> > related issues. We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
> > to develop and publish new resources, as well as to improve and increase
> > access to already existing resources. We also strive to ensure that these
> > resources are maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
> > future.
> >
> >
> > I will even admit that I have experienced some of the side effect listed
> > from pot, including coughing, short term memory loss, psycological
> > dependence and mild withdrawal symptoms. I only smoke a few times a month
> > when with friends now. Mostly that was a financial decision, with good
> > pot being about $400 an ounce where I live.
> >
> > I still can't imagine it having worse effect than from alcohol. Would you
> > care to post your evidence, since you aver that you have it.
> >
> The majority of your negative effects of alcohol only occur when you
> take in extreme amounts. I used to believe that pot was harmless as
> well, but after 30+ years of recreational smoking my stepmom has turned
> from being able to command an intellectual conversation to a near brain
> dead embarassement. I've since changed my oppinion. As a side note
> pc, your posts have struck me as less and less intelligent over time.
> Could just be a coincidence I guess.
>
> Doug
LOL Roflmao....but at least I've retained my sense of humor.
Wuz asked me for documentation, I provided it from a neutral and known
reliable source. Why does that make me seem "less intelligent." I've
already admitted I experienced some side effects from long term pot
smoking, and that I am no longer a habitual user.
If you are telling me, say 3 sixpacks a week (not an extreme amount), will
not pickle your liver a bit, I don't think I agree. This is less than 3
beers a day. How many guys go through a six pack on a Thursday night out
at the bar, Monday night football ot the weekend with the buds. According
to the American Liver Association
How much alcohol can I safely drink?
Because some people are much more sensitive to alcohol than others, there
is no single right answer that will fit everyone. Based on current dietary
guidelines, moderate drinking for women is defined as an average of 1
drink or less per day. Moderate drinking for men is defined as an average
of 2 drinks or less per day (USDA, 2000). A standard drink is one 12-ounce
beer, one 5-ounce glass of wine, or one 1.5-ounce shot of distilled
spirits. Each of these drinks contains about half an ounce of alcohol.
This is not to mention all the deaths and injuries caused by those driving
under the influence of alcohol. Don't often hear about accidents caused
by people under the influence of pot (although maybe you just don't hear
about them). Anyway, I'll stick with my original statement. Pot is less
damaging than alcohol. Besides, what do you think your stepmom would be
like after 30 years of serious drinking? Intellectual? Dead is more
likely.
thumbers on stars, dieseldyke on absolute/vegaspoker24/7
_______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
| | | |
Date: 18 Dec 15:45:11
From: Super Steamer
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
On Dec 18 2006 6:23 AM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> This is not to mention all the deaths and injuries caused by those driving
> under the influence of alcohol. Don't often hear about accidents caused
> by people under the influence of pot (although maybe you just don't hear
> about them). Anyway, I'll stick with my original statement. Pot is less
> damaging than alcohol. Besides, what do you think your stepmom would be
> like after 30 years of serious drinking? Intellectual? Dead is more
> likely.
My grandfather on my mom's side died pretty young after several heart attacks.
He never drank, and he smoked regularly. Back then, his doctors recommended
smoking "for his nerves" or something (great advice). He was deceased before I
was born. My mom's brother decided to do things differently, and regularly
drank, never more than 2 or 3, and never smoked, he lived almost 30 years longer
than his father.
My abstinent grandfather on my father's side died when I was 6 days old. My
father is already more than 15 years older than he was at that time. He drinks,
but not to excess. My great uncle lived to the age of 94, and drank every day.
He told my dad "two drinks a day is my secret". He seemed to usually have more
than two. He was mentally sharp all the way to the end.
Being of Scottish-Irish descent like I am, probably makes a difference, some
people have different genetic tolerances for alcohol.
Most of my friends have slowed down a lot on their drinking as they got older,
some of the ones who didn't died young, often in driving fatalities. Most of my
friends stopped smoking pot 10 or 15 years ago, very few have completely stopped
drinking. Except for the few people that still drink way too much, the drinking
crowd is much sharper than the ones who still smoke pot.
I believe that excessive drinking is more dangerous, in general, than excessive
pot smoking, but that moderate drinking is healthier than moderate pot smoking.
Some people just can't seem to drink at all though, without being full bore
alcoholics, and those people need to avoid it altogether unless they can learn
to drink without having the need to get smashed all the time.
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
|
| |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 13:56:53
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
pokerchimp wrote:
> Wuz asked me for documentation, I provided it from a neutral and known
> reliable source.
You quoted erowid.org. Although this site carries some peer-
reviewed research, it also carries a lot of opinion pieces and
"creative" articles. Just because their own website says they
are neutral and reliable doesn't make it true !
|
| |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 13:51:11
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
James L. Hankins wrote:
> Not to mention the incidental negative effect of drunk driving accidents.
Stoned driving is far more dangerous than drunk driving. Your
reaction time is all shot to hell.
|
| | |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 15:55:54
From: Susan
Subject: Re: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
I disagree. Because of the paranoia pot smokers drive slower and are overly
cautious. Not necessarily a good thing, but better than the false bravado
that comes with drinking.
"Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote in message
news:1166478671.795328.140740@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> James L. Hankins wrote:
>> Not to mention the incidental negative effect of drunk driving accidents.
>
> Stoned driving is far more dangerous than drunk driving. Your
> reaction time is all shot to hell.
>
|
| |
Date: 18 Dec 2006 12:00:20
From: WuzYoungOnceToo
Subject: Re: Attn: WuzYoungOnceToo re Pot vs. Alcohol
|
On Dec 18, 1:19 pm, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com > wrote:
>
> That depends on your point of view - it sounds extremely successful for
> the deer!
That much is true. Hunting is definitely a zero-sum game.
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