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Date: 08 Dec 2006 21:53:38
From: JG
Subject: A lesson on how to play fast
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An interesting hand of $200/400 NLHE from yesterday on FullTilt.
Phil Ivey has pocket 8s, open-raises from UTG in a 5-way hand, UTG + 1
folds, then the button, Patrik Antonius (Luigi66369), re-raises. The
stacks are deep (Ivey has > 260 BB, Antonius > 450 BB), with Ivey at
$106K and Antonius at $185K. The blinds fold, and Ivey makes the call.
The flop comes 2d 8h 8d, giving Ivey quad 8s. The *vast* majority of
players would slowplay such a monster hand, which is nearly unbeatable
with this flop. But, slowplaying isn't all about the strength of your
own hand. It's about the strength of your opponent's hand almost as
much as yours. If you put your opponent on a strong hand, or think you
can induce a very aggressive response from him, there's absolutely no
need to slowplay. Start hammering the pot, the sooner the better, so
you can build one of those monster pots that you will recount for years
to come. I think most people miss this concept, and would automatically
slowplay flopped quads (or any big hand, for that matter), without
regard to what their opponent is holding.
In this case, Ivey makes the most aggressive move possible -- a
check-raise right on the flop. Antonius re-raises, and Ivey raises big
again, essentially moving all-in right there. Antonius makes the call
(actually, he raises Ivey $1,500 more, at which point all the money is
in). Total pot size is $213,000. Antonius turns over Jd9d for a flush
draw with overcards and a backdoor straight draw. Needless to say,
Ivey's quads hold up, and he drags in nearly a quarter of a million
dollars.
I have to admire playing in such a way that you can flop quads and then
get over 700 BB into the pot right there on the flop. That's how you
get value! Not checking and calling and keeping the pot small.
Naturally, there's variables at play in these situations, but I think a
very common mistake in HE is to always slowplay a flopped monster.
Instead, your first thought should be: will my opponent be willing to
call bets and put money into the pot? If you suspect the answer is yes,
get aggressive and start building a pot immediately.
JG
Full Tilt Poker Game #1366814434: Table Bennett (6 max)
$200/$400 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:56:36 ET - 2006/12/07
Seat 1: serb2127 ($28,997)
Seat 2: Urindanger ($8,000), is sitting out
Seat 3: Phil Ivey ($106,515)
Seat 4: sbrugby ($46,044)
Seat 5: Luigi66369 ($185,682)
Seat 6: MyRenovatio ($39,940)
MyRenovatio posts the small blind of $200
serb2127 posts the big blind of $400
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Urindanger has returned
Phil Ivey has 15 seconds left to act
Phil Ivey raises to $1,200
sbrugby folds
Luigi66369 raises to $4,000
MyRenovatio folds
serb2127 folds
Phil Ivey calls $2,800
*** FLOP *** [2d 8h 8d]
Phil Ivey checks
Luigi66369 bets $7,200
Phil Ivey raises to $20,800
Luigi66369 has 15 seconds left to act
Luigi66369 raises to $60,800
Phil Ivey raises to $100,800
Luigi66369 raises to $140,800
Phil Ivey calls $1,715, and is all in
Luigi66369 shows [9d Jd]
Phil Ivey shows [8c 8s]
Uncalled bet of $38,285 returned to Luigi66369
*** TURN *** [2d 8h 8d] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [2d 8h 8d Kd] [4c]
Luigi66369 shows a flush, King high
Phil Ivey shows four of a kind, Eights
Phil Ivey wins the pot ($213,627) with four of a kind, Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $213,630
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 22:40:54
From: JG
Subject: Re: A lesson on how to play fast
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JG wrote:
>
> I have to admire playing in such a way that you can flop quads and then
> get over 700 BB into the pot right there on the flop.
Typo: make that over 500 BB, not 700. Huge, nonetheless.
> Naturally, there's variables at play in these situations, but I think a
> very common mistake in HE is to always slowplay a flopped monster.
'Habitually' would be a better term than 'always'. In any case, I've
certainly made this mistake before in HE. It's probably a combination
of being excited at hitting such a great hand along with an urge to be
tricky and trap someone. Instead, the focus should be on your opponent
and how to get his money into the pot.
JG
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 23:23:07
From: Howard Beale
Subject: Re: A lesson on how to play fast
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On Dec 8 2006 11:40 PM, JG wrote:
> JG wrote:
> >
> > I have to admire playing in such a way that you can flop quads and then
> > get over 700 BB into the pot right there on the flop.
>
> Typo: make that over 500 BB, not 700. Huge, nonetheless.
>
> > Naturally, there's variables at play in these situations, but I think a
> > very common mistake in HE is to always slowplay a flopped monster.
>
> 'Habitually' would be a better term than 'always'. In any case, I've
> certainly made this mistake before in HE. It's probably a combination
> of being excited at hitting such a great hand along with an urge to be
> tricky and trap someone. Instead, the focus should be on your opponent
> and how to get his money into the pot.
>
> JG
I once flopped quad tens in the BB at 20-40. I bet out and got raised in
2 spots and re-raised it. Led out the turn and got raised in 2 spots
again and I re-raised. Bet out the river and both called. At the end of
the hand they were amazed and shocked. 'How could you play a monster like
that? You're supposed to slow-play it!' And that's the reason I did it
the way I did. Read the books and they 'all' say to slow play. That's
why I don't do it if I think there's any chance that someone else has a
hand.
Howard Beale
--------
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 22:12:07
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: A lesson on how to play fast
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Holy Crap.
The best poker not on TV right there.
213k pot...
Maybe when I am no longer playing the .25/.50 horse tables.
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:43:23
From: Edward K. Yung
Subject: Re: A lesson on how to play fast
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Can't believe people playing this stupid (JD & 9D hand) at this stake.
That's a fold even at 2/4 after a raise. The guy deserves to lose.
"JG" <HeckaGuy@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1165643618.021957.102880@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> An interesting hand of $200/400 NLHE from yesterday on FullTilt.
>
> Phil Ivey has pocket 8s, open-raises from UTG in a 5-way hand, UTG + 1
> folds, then the button, Patrik Antonius (Luigi66369), re-raises. The
> stacks are deep (Ivey has > 260 BB, Antonius > 450 BB), with Ivey at
> $106K and Antonius at $185K. The blinds fold, and Ivey makes the call.
>
> The flop comes 2d 8h 8d, giving Ivey quad 8s. The *vast* majority of
> players would slowplay such a monster hand, which is nearly unbeatable
> with this flop. But, slowplaying isn't all about the strength of your
> own hand. It's about the strength of your opponent's hand almost as
> much as yours. If you put your opponent on a strong hand, or think you
> can induce a very aggressive response from him, there's absolutely no
> need to slowplay. Start hammering the pot, the sooner the better, so
> you can build one of those monster pots that you will recount for years
> to come. I think most people miss this concept, and would automatically
> slowplay flopped quads (or any big hand, for that matter), without
> regard to what their opponent is holding.
>
> In this case, Ivey makes the most aggressive move possible -- a
> check-raise right on the flop. Antonius re-raises, and Ivey raises big
> again, essentially moving all-in right there. Antonius makes the call
> (actually, he raises Ivey $1,500 more, at which point all the money is
> in). Total pot size is $213,000. Antonius turns over Jd9d for a flush
> draw with overcards and a backdoor straight draw. Needless to say,
> Ivey's quads hold up, and he drags in nearly a quarter of a million
> dollars.
>
> I have to admire playing in such a way that you can flop quads and then
> get over 700 BB into the pot right there on the flop. That's how you
> get value! Not checking and calling and keeping the pot small.
>
> Naturally, there's variables at play in these situations, but I think a
> very common mistake in HE is to always slowplay a flopped monster.
> Instead, your first thought should be: will my opponent be willing to
> call bets and put money into the pot? If you suspect the answer is yes,
> get aggressive and start building a pot immediately.
>
> JG
>
> Full Tilt Poker Game #1366814434: Table Bennett (6 max)
> $200/$400 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:56:36 ET - 2006/12/07
> Seat 1: serb2127 ($28,997)
> Seat 2: Urindanger ($8,000), is sitting out
> Seat 3: Phil Ivey ($106,515)
> Seat 4: sbrugby ($46,044)
> Seat 5: Luigi66369 ($185,682)
> Seat 6: MyRenovatio ($39,940)
> MyRenovatio posts the small blind of $200
> serb2127 posts the big blind of $400
> The button is in seat #5
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Urindanger has returned
> Phil Ivey has 15 seconds left to act
> Phil Ivey raises to $1,200
> sbrugby folds
> Luigi66369 raises to $4,000
> MyRenovatio folds
> serb2127 folds
> Phil Ivey calls $2,800
> *** FLOP *** [2d 8h 8d]
> Phil Ivey checks
> Luigi66369 bets $7,200
> Phil Ivey raises to $20,800
> Luigi66369 has 15 seconds left to act
> Luigi66369 raises to $60,800
> Phil Ivey raises to $100,800
> Luigi66369 raises to $140,800
> Phil Ivey calls $1,715, and is all in
> Luigi66369 shows [9d Jd]
> Phil Ivey shows [8c 8s]
> Uncalled bet of $38,285 returned to Luigi66369
> *** TURN *** [2d 8h 8d] [Kd]
> *** RIVER *** [2d 8h 8d Kd] [4c]
> Luigi66369 shows a flush, King high
> Phil Ivey shows four of a kind, Eights
> Phil Ivey wins the pot ($213,627) with four of a kind, Eights
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $213,630
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Date: 09 Dec 22:00:40
From: Nick Wool
Subject: Re: A lesson on how to play fast
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On Dec 9 2006 7:43 AM, Edward K. Yung wrote:
> Can't believe people playing this stupid (JD & 9D hand) at this stake.
> That's a fold even at 2/4 after a raise. The guy deserves to lose.
>
He was playing his position, and keeping Ivey on the back-foot with the
reraise. Would have worked most of the time that Ivey doesnt connect with the
flop. 6 handed and deep stacked, you cant wait for big pairs ot AK to play.
Hard to put Ivey on 88 there, dont you think? The guy flopped a decent draw
with 2 overs, and I think he put ivey on 2 overs or a small pair....figuring
Ivey would have reraised preflop with a big PP...so he figured that at had at
least 12 outs, if not 15. Just one of those things that he ran into a monster.
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