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Date: 03 Dec 2006 10:06:47
From:
Subject: 7 Card Stud - Ante & BI for low limits ?
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Hey, I'm a 7CS fan and have played different low limits in various
casinos (AC, Foxwoods, Tunica, Detroit, Vegas). I 've played $1/5 w/o
an ante, w/a .25 cent & .50 cent ante, 2/10 no ante, and 5/10 w/a .50
cent ante. Just trying to get a general consensus from the stud
faithful about which games/structures are everyones' favorites. I
prefer 5/10 (which I play in AC, but can be a little tight), but would
like to check out either a 3/6 or 4/8 w/ a .50 cent ante & $1 BI. Are
these games spread anywhere ? Seems like they'd have more action than
an average AC 5/10 game.
In your opinions, what are the most ideal antes & bring ins for 7CS
games ? ;
1/5 spread
2/4
2/5 or 2/6 spread
2/10 spread
3/6
4/8
5/10
6/12
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 14:34:39
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: 7 Card Stud - Ante & BI for low limits ?
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Stephen Jacobs wrote:
> <cmurl904@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:1165169207.224784.75470@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > Hey, I'm a 7CS fan and have played different low limits in various
> > casinos (AC, Foxwoods, Tunica, Detroit, Vegas). I 've played $1/5 w/o
> > an ante, w/a .25 cent & .50 cent ante, 2/10 no ante, and 5/10 w/a .50
> > cent ante. Just trying to get a general consensus from the stud
> > faithful about which games/structures are everyones' favorites. I
> > prefer 5/10 (which I play in AC, but can be a little tight), but would
> > like to check out either a 3/6 or 4/8 w/ a .50 cent ante & $1 BI. Are
> > these games spread anywhere ? Seems like they'd have more action than
> > an average AC 5/10 game.
> >
>
> My preferences are a lot like Fell's. There is a lot of politics in the
> structure of stud games. Please pardon the description, but the old people
> who like to sit in low stakes stud games and watch the world go by, while
> playing very little poker, obviously favor zero or low ante
That is extremely accurate. It is obviously very table-dependant but it
wasn't uncommon, back when I played low-limit stud, to be called to a
table and see two or three guys looking at their Racing Forms and
enjoying their free coffee, another couple of seats empty with chips
and several "absent" buttons decorating the spot and two other guys
nodding out while waiting for some action. There were and are loose,
wild tables at those stakes but the "Racing Form games," as we called
them, were fairly common.
As of the early 2000s, these games still existed. My friend Megan had
never played anything but NLHE tournaments but she wanted to try
something different. She tried the 1-3 spread-limit Stud game with no
ante. She said that there almost no contested pots and those generally
got checked down. She quit in disgust and complained to me:
"I don't mind that they don't want to lose their money; But they don't
even want to win MY money."
These are mostly old guys playing, or not playing, like that but lots
of us old guys do try to play some poker.
(they also seem
> to favor a bring-in that's a substantial fraction of the standard bet,
> since it means that if they are forced to play, they are pretty much sure to
> see fourth street). Spread-limit stud snobs seem to favor a high ante,
> because it creates game conditions which make hold'em players flounder.
> Other things being equal, management likes the standard antes because they
> give casual drop-ins decent play for their time, and the logical purpose of
> a low limit stud game in a casino is to attract casual visitors.
>
> FWIW, I think the only games you list that a person skillful enough to ask
> this question ought to consider playing are $1-5 and $2-10. These give
> enormous scope for skillful play. In the other very-low-limit games you
> need to be almost superhuman to beat the rake in the long run.
Table conditions, including factors like the rake, the ante and the
bring-in, vary but I don't remember making any money below 5-10 and the
2-10 spread-limit eight or better. It would have helped in the latter
if I weren't such an AWFUL Stud8 player.
Will in New Haven
--
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail
better."
Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1983
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 17:08:07
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: 7 Card Stud - Ante & BI for low limits ?
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<cmurl904@bellsouth.net > wrote in message
news:1165169207.224784.75470@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> Hey, I'm a 7CS fan and have played different low limits in various
> casinos (AC, Foxwoods, Tunica, Detroit, Vegas). I 've played $1/5 w/o
> an ante, w/a .25 cent & .50 cent ante, 2/10 no ante, and 5/10 w/a .50
> cent ante. Just trying to get a general consensus from the stud
> faithful about which games/structures are everyones' favorites. I
> prefer 5/10 (which I play in AC, but can be a little tight), but would
> like to check out either a 3/6 or 4/8 w/ a .50 cent ante & $1 BI. Are
> these games spread anywhere ? Seems like they'd have more action than
> an average AC 5/10 game.
>
My preferences are a lot like Fell's. There is a lot of politics in the
structure of stud games. Please pardon the description, but the old people
who like to sit in low stakes stud games and watch the world go by, while
playing very little poker, obviously favor zero or low ante (they also seem
to favor a bring-in that's a substantial fraction of the standard bet,
since it means that if they are forced to play, they are pretty much sure to
see fourth street). Spread-limit stud snobs seem to favor a high ante,
because it creates game conditions which make hold'em players flounder.
Other things being equal, management likes the standard antes because they
give casual drop-ins decent play for their time, and the logical purpose of
a low limit stud game in a casino is to attract casual visitors.
FWIW, I think the only games you list that a person skillful enough to ask
this question ought to consider playing are $1-5 and $2-10. These give
enormous scope for skillful play. In the other very-low-limit games you
need to be almost superhuman to beat the rake in the long run.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 13:02:42
From: Omaha Chris
Subject: Re: 7 Card Stud - Ante & BI for low limits ?
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> In your opinions, what are the most ideal antes & bring ins for 7CS
> games ? ;
Standard ante for a stud game is 10% of the small bet, with the bring-in
being 50% of the small bet.
10% is standard, 15% is highish, and anything 20% and above is
considered very high (Sklansky, et al.)
10% is my ideal. Stud is roller coaster enough as it is, and when you
have a 20%-plus ante, you are often forced to gamble too much. On the
other hand, if the game is very tight and antes can be stolen with some
degree of success, then a high ante can be manageable.
Unfortunately, the live games in my area all have lousy, high-ante
structures. They are as follows:
Bay 101: $4/$8 high - $1 ante, $1 bring-in
Garden City: $4/$8 8-or-better - $1 ante, $1 bring-in
Lucky Chances: $2/$4 - $1 ante, $1 bring-in
I only played the Bay 101 for a short time before my seat in another
game was called.
I've played the 8-or-better at Garden City a few times and it's
wonderful, opponentwise. Extremely weak. I do okay in the game, but I'd
be doing great if the damn 25% ante wasn't bleeding me dry.
The Lucky Chances structure is a joke. No way am I playing in a game
with a 50% ante.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 12:01:56
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 7 Card Stud - Ante & BI for low limits ?
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On Dec 3 2006 11:06 AM, cmurl904 wrote:
> Hey, I'm a 7CS fan and have played different low limits in various
> casinos (AC, Foxwoods, Tunica, Detroit, Vegas). I 've played $1/5 w/o
> an ante, w/a .25 cent & .50 cent ante, 2/10 no ante, and 5/10 w/a .50
> cent ante. Just trying to get a general consensus from the stud
> faithful about which games/structures are everyones' favorites. I
> prefer 5/10 (which I play in AC, but can be a little tight), but would
> like to check out either a 3/6 or 4/8 w/ a .50 cent ante & $1 BI. Are
> these games spread anywhere ? Seems like they'd have more action than
> an average AC 5/10 game.
>
> In your opinions, what are the most ideal antes & bring ins for 7CS
> games ? ;
>
> 1/5 spread
0.25/0.5
> 2/4
0.25/0.5
> 2/5 or 2/6 spread
0.25/0.5
> 2/10 spread
0.25/1
> 3/6
0.50/1
> 4/8
0.50/1
> 5/10
0.5/2
> 6/12
0.5/2
Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com
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