2-7 BAHH Analysis

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:53:12
From: pokerchimp
Subject: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

I have no idea what I am doing. As it turns out he had the exact same
hand as I did on the second draw. Actually, I called thinking I was
probably beat by a 7, which was probably not the best play, since I then
have to call the river if he bets. Or, should I have raised somewhere in
there to define my hand. I'm trying to learn.

thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:03:06
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 5:53 PM, pokerchimp wrote:

> I have no idea what I am doing. As it turns out he had the exact same
> hand as I did on the second draw. Actually, I called thinking I was
> probably beat by a 7, which was probably not the best play, since I then
> have to call the river if he bets. Or, should I have raised somewhere in
> there to define my hand. I'm trying to learn.
>
> thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute

It's hard to comment since you forgot the BAHH.

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:41:47
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

turned up on my outlook ok

On Nov 29 2006 7:03 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Nov 29 2006 5:53 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> > I have no idea what I am doing. As it turns out he had the exact same
> > hand as I did on the second draw. Actually, I called thinking I was
> > probably beat by a 7, which was probably not the best play, since I then
> > have to call the river if he bets. Or, should I have raised somewhere in
> > there to define my hand. I'm trying to learn.
> >
> > thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute
>
> It's hard to comment since you forgot the BAHH.

thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 20:05:22
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 5:41 PM, pokerchimp wrote:

> turned up on my outlook ok

I still don't see it.

Fell
--
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Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 20:10:17
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

okerStars Game #7229140878: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
2006/11/29 - 18:43:14 (ET)
Table 'Alkimos III' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: sedlaceka ($46.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Kache ($26.60 in chips)
Seat 4: thumbers ($41.95 in chips)
Seat 5: saja ($20.55 in chips)
Seat 6: Yukao ($23.60 in chips)
saja: posts small blind $0.25
Yukao: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to thumbers [4d 5d 8h 2c Jc]
sedlaceka: folds
Kache: raises $1 to $1.50
thumbers: calls $1.50
saja: folds
Yukao: calls $1
Yukao: discards 2 cards
Kache: discards 2 cards
thumbers: discards 1 card [Jc]
Dealt to thumbers [7s]
Yukao: checks
Kache: bets $2.50
thumbers: calls $2.50
Yukao: folds
Kache: stands pat
thumbers: stands pat
Kache: bets $2.50
thumbers: calls $2.50
Kache: stands pat
thumbers: discards 1 card [8h]
Dealt to thumbers [3c]
Kache: bets $4
anders200 joins the table at seat #1
thumbers: raises $9 to $13
Kache: calls $9
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thumbers: shows [4d 5d 3c 2c 7s] (Lo: 7,5,4,3,2)
Kache: mucks hand
thumbers collected $38.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $40.75

Date: 29 Nov 2006 20:44:54
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

Date: 29 Nov 2006 21:00:19
From: Omaholic
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 8:44 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Nov 29 2006 9:10 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> > Dealt to thumbers [4d 5d 8h 2c Jc]
> > sedlaceka: folds
> > Kache: raises $1 to $1.50
> > thumbers: calls $1.50
> > saja: folds
> > Yukao: calls $1
> > Yukao: discards 2 cards
> > Kache: discards 2 cards
> > thumbers: discards 1 card [Jc]
>
> I draw 2 here.

In limit, clearly the superior play is to draw 2, but in NL there is a
premium for getting to a pat hand as soon as possible and pricing out
anyone still drawing. With everyone else drawing 2 an argument can be
made for Chimp to also draw 2, but I think the superior play in NL is to
draw 1. This probably will cause them to check to you after the draw, so
whether or not you improve you can use your position and put the other 2
players to a difficult test if they have improved to a 1 card draw.

Hands like these are the main reason why I think that a PL or NL version
of this game is fatally flawed, much like 1/2 pot-limit badugi. Both
games are great for limit, but big-bet versions of the game kill the
action.

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 21:07:36
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 10:00 PM, Omaholic wrote:

> On Nov 29 2006 8:44 PM, FellKnight wrote:
>
> > On Nov 29 2006 9:10 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> >
> > > Dealt to thumbers [4d 5d 8h 2c Jc]
> > > sedlaceka: folds
> > > Kache: raises $1 to $1.50
> > > thumbers: calls $1.50
> > > saja: folds
> > > Yukao: calls $1
> > > Yukao: discards 2 cards
> > > Kache: discards 2 cards
> > > thumbers: discards 1 card [Jc]
> >
> > I draw 2 here.
>
> In limit, clearly the superior play is to draw 2, but in NL there is a
> premium for getting to a pat hand as soon as possible and pricing out
> anyone still drawing. With everyone else drawing 2 an argument can be
> made for Chimp to also draw 2, but I think the superior play in NL is to
> draw 1. This probably will cause them to check to you after the draw, so
> whether or not you improve you can use your position and put the other 2
> players to a difficult test if they have improved to a 1 card draw.
>
> Hands like these are the main reason why I think that a PL or NL version
> of this game is fatally flawed, much like 1/2 pot-limit badugi. Both
> games are great for limit, but big-bet versions of the game kill the
> action.

An interesting analysis. The way I have approached both 1/2 pot limit
Badugi and NL/PL 2-7 is by trying to draw as smoothly as possible. If
this means drawing 2 or 3 on the first draw, then I will do it. The
benefits of my style are that when I get involved in a big pot (all-in), I
have the smoother hand (usually).

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 21:16:20
From: Omaholic
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 9:07 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Nov 29 2006 10:00 PM, Omaholic wrote:
>
> > On Nov 29 2006 8:44 PM, FellKnight wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 29 2006 9:10 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dealt to thumbers [4d 5d 8h 2c Jc]
> > > > sedlaceka: folds
> > > > Kache: raises $1 to $1.50
> > > > thumbers: calls $1.50
> > > > saja: folds
> > > > Yukao: calls $1
> > > > Yukao: discards 2 cards
> > > > Kache: discards 2 cards
> > > > thumbers: discards 1 card [Jc]
> > >
> > > I draw 2 here.
> >
> > In limit, clearly the superior play is to draw 2, but in NL there is a
> > premium for getting to a pat hand as soon as possible and pricing out
> > anyone still drawing. With everyone else drawing 2 an argument can be
> > made for Chimp to also draw 2, but I think the superior play in NL is to
> > draw 1. This probably will cause them to check to you after the draw, so
> > whether or not you improve you can use your position and put the other 2
> > players to a difficult test if they have improved to a 1 card draw.
> >
> > Hands like these are the main reason why I think that a PL or NL version
> > of this game is fatally flawed, much like 1/2 pot-limit badugi. Both
> > games are great for limit, but big-bet versions of the game kill the
> > action.
>
> An interesting analysis. The way I have approached both 1/2 pot limit
> Badugi and NL/PL 2-7 is by trying to draw as smoothly as possible. If
> this means drawing 2 or 3 on the first draw, then I will do it. The
> benefits of my style are that when I get involved in a big pot (all-in), I
> have the smoother hand (usually).
>
> Fell
> --
> Website: www.fellknight.com
> Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

If you're playing against players who will let you draw cheaply, this
approach would work fine. But drawing more cards allows a pat player to
price you out if they get there first, no matter how smooth your draw is
-- much like a made hand pricing out a flush draw in NLHE.

If you're out of position, however, you're probably better off drawing 2
since you will need a stronger hand to continue deep into the hand, all
else being equal.

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Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:45:30
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 9:10 PM, pokerchimp wrote:

> okerStars Game #7229140878: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> 2006/11/29 - 18:43:14 (ET)
> Table 'Alkimos III' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
> Seat 2: sedlaceka ($46.65 in chips)
> Seat 3: Kache ($26.60 in chips)
> Seat 4: thumbers ($41.95 in chips)
> Seat 5: saja ($20.55 in chips)
> Seat 6: Yukao ($23.60 in chips)
> saja: posts small blind $0.25
> Yukao: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [4d 5d 8h 2c Jc]
> sedlaceka: folds
> Kache: raises $1 to $1.50
> thumbers: calls $1.50

In this game, you really should not call raises and draw to an 8. You
would be much better off ditching both the 8 and the J, and drawing to the
245. As you have probably started to realize, this game is really about
drawing to the nuts. It's not like KCL, where you can put a lot of money
in with an 8 or a 9 against a drawing hand.

Consider this: if you start with 2345, you will make a wheel about 24% of
the time over 3 draws. But, you will make an 85432 or a wheel 44% of the
time. That's where the money is at. You really want a 7, but if you
catch an 8 you can only be beat by 4 hands.

The problem with drawing to a hand like 8542 is that if you catch a 7, you
"make" your hand, but you can also be beat by the majority of hands that
will play with you, since most of those hands will either be better than
yours or drawing better than yours.

> saja: folds
> Yukao: calls $1
> Yukao: discards 2 cards
> Kache: discards 2 cards
> thumbers: discards 1 card [Jc]
> Dealt to thumbers [7s]
> Yukao: checks
> Kache: bets $2.50
> thumbers: calls $2.50
> Yukao: folds
> Kache: stands pat
> thumbers: stands pat
> Kache: bets $2.50
> thumbers: calls $2.50
> Kache: stands pat
> thumbers: discards 1 card [8h]
> Dealt to thumbers [3c]
> Kache: bets $4
> anders200 joins the table at seat #1
> thumbers: raises $9 to $13
> Kache: calls $9
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> thumbers: shows [4d 5d 3c 2c 7s] (Lo: 7,5,4,3,2)
> Kache: mucks hand
> thumbers collected $38.75 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $40.75

Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:52:14
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

Thanks to all for the help. Obviously I'll be sticking to low limits for
a while while I learn this game.
On Nov 30 2006 11:45 AM, MysteriAce wrote:

> On Nov 29 2006 9:10 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> > okerStars Game #7229140878: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> > 2006/11/29 - 18:43:14 (ET)
> > Table 'Alkimos III' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
> > Seat 2: sedlaceka ($46.65 in chips)
> > Seat 3: Kache ($26.60 in chips)
> > Seat 4: thumbers ($41.95 in chips)
> > Seat 5: saja ($20.55 in chips)
> > Seat 6: Yukao ($23.60 in chips)
> > saja: posts small blind $0.25
> > Yukao: posts big blind $0.50
> > *** DEALING HANDS ***
> > Dealt to thumbers [4d 5d 8h 2c Jc]
> > sedlaceka: folds
> > Kache: raises $1 to $1.50
> > thumbers: calls $1.50
>
> In this game, you really should not call raises and draw to an 8. You
> would be much better off ditching both the 8 and the J, and drawing to the
> 245. As you have probably started to realize, this game is really about
> drawing to the nuts. It's not like KCL, where you can put a lot of money
> in with an 8 or a 9 against a drawing hand.
>
> Consider this: if you start with 2345, you will make a wheel about 24% of
> the time over 3 draws. But, you will make an 85432 or a wheel 44% of the
> time. That's where the money is at. You really want a 7, but if you
> catch an 8 you can only be beat by 4 hands.
>
> The problem with drawing to a hand like 8542 is that if you catch a 7, you
> "make" your hand, but you can also be beat by the majority of hands that
> will play with you, since most of those hands will either be better than
> yours or drawing better than yours.
>
> > saja: folds
> > Yukao: calls $1
> > Yukao: discards 2 cards
> > Kache: discards 2 cards
> > thumbers: discards 1 card [Jc]
> > Dealt to thumbers [7s]
> > Yukao: checks
> > Kache: bets $2.50
> > thumbers: calls $2.50
> > Yukao: folds
> > Kache: stands pat
> > thumbers: stands pat
> > Kache: bets $2.50
> > thumbers: calls $2.50
> > Kache: stands pat
> > thumbers: discards 1 card [8h]
> > Dealt to thumbers [3c]
> > Kache: bets $4
> > anders200 joins the table at seat #1
> > thumbers: raises $9 to $13
> > Kache: calls $9
> > *** SHOW DOWN ***
> > thumbers: shows [4d 5d 3c 2c 7s] (Lo: 7,5,4,3,2)
> > Kache: mucks hand
> > thumbers collected $38.75 from pot
> > *** SUMMARY ***
> > Total pot $40.75

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:39:33
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

no, i didn't. actually posted 3 hands and was about to post a 4th...maybe
it will turn up, Here's the 4th. I only called initially because of the
stack size of the raiser. Should I have folded later, or made a small bet
on the river and if raised fold, I just have no idea?

Went from being $28 head to being stuck $10

aw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/29 - 19:24:36 (ET)
Table 'Alkimos III' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: anders200 ($30.05 in chips)
Seat 2: snowman7353 ($22.50 in chips)
Seat 3: imtheduke ($7.95 in chips)
Seat 4: thumbers ($55.45 in chips)
Seat 5: Kimykay ($36.45 in chips)
Seat 6: Yukao ($30.55 in chips)
thumbers: posts small blind $0.25
Kimykay: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to thumbers [2c 6s Kh 5h 3d]
Yukao: folds
anders200: raises $1.25 to $1.75
snowman7353: folds
imtheduke: raises $4.25 to $6
thumbers: calls $5.75
Kimykay: folds
anders200: calls $4.25
thumbers: discards 1 card [Kh]
Dealt to thumbers [5c]
anders200: discards 2 cards
imtheduke: discards 1 card
thumbers: checks
anders200: checks
imtheduke: bets $1.95 and is all-in
thumbers: calls $1.95
anders200: calls $1.95
thumbers: discards 1 card [5h]
Dealt to thumbers [Ad]
anders200: discards 2 cards
imtheduke: discards 1 card
thumbers: checks
anders200: checks
thumbers: discards 1 card [Ad]
Dealt to thumbers [8c]
anders200: discards 1 card
imtheduke: discards 1 card
thumbers: checks
anders200: bets $22.10 and is all-in
thumbers said, "****"
thumbers: calls $22.10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
anders200: shows [3h 4h 7d 5d 2d] (Lo: 7,5,4,3,2)
thumbers: mucks hand
anders200 collected $42.35 from side pot
imtheduke: mucks hand
anders200 collected $23.20 from main pot
anders200 said, "nuts"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $68.55 Main pot $23.20. Side pot $42.35.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 18:52:13
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

Date: 30 Nov 2006 00:42:55
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:52:13 -0800, "FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>On Nov 29 2006 5:39 PM, pokerchimp wrote:

>> no, i didn't. actually posted 3 hands and was about to post a 4th...maybe
>> it will turn up, Here's the 4th. I only called initially because of the
>> stack size of the raiser. Should I have folded later, or made a small bet
>> on the river and if raised fold, I just have no idea?

>> Went from being $28 head to being stuck $10

>He isn't bluffing with an allin behind. Fold your 8.

How good a 7 would you want to call in that situation? Or would
only the wheel do?

Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:15:50
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 10:42 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:52:13 -0800, "FellKnight"
<jordandevenport@hotmail.com >
> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 29 2006 5:39 PM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> >> no, i didn't. actually posted 3 hands and was about to post a 4th...maybe
> >> it will turn up, Here's the 4th. I only called initially because of the
> >> stack size of the raiser. Should I have folded later, or made a small bet
> >> on the river and if raised fold, I just have no idea?
>
> >> Went from being $28 head to being stuck $10
>
> >He isn't bluffing with an allin behind. Fold your 8.
>
> How good a 7 would you want to call in that situation? Or would
> only the wheel do?

I'd want a 76532 at worst, and I think that might be break even.

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:59:47
From: johnny T
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

pokerchimp wrote:
> no, i didn't. actually posted 3 hands and was about to post a 4th...maybe
> it will turn up, Here's the 4th. I only called initially because of the
> stack size of the raiser. Should I have folded later, or made a small bet
> on the river and if raised fold, I just have no idea?

You have a good not great hand. It is absolutely not clear how to play
this hand, because this is precisely a play the player type of situation.

Do they make this kind of play only with great hands, only with good hands?

How do they respond with pressure.

Generally without any idea, I am going to give the player credit for the
hand, and here, I think I would have to fold, and hope to find out more
later.

If I found the player tries to move players off hands, and milk great
hands, I will call. But not until I know. (Especially at lower levels).

Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:37:52
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 29 2006 5:39 PM, pokerchimp wrote:

> no, i didn't. actually posted 3 hands and was about to post a 4th...maybe
> it will turn up, Here's the 4th. I only called initially because of the
> stack size of the raiser. Should I have folded later, or made a small bet
> on the river and if raised fold, I just have no idea?
>
> Went from being $28 head to being stuck $10
>
>
> aw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/11/29 - 19:24:36 (ET)
> Table 'Alkimos III' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
> Seat 1: anders200 ($30.05 in chips)
> Seat 2: snowman7353 ($22.50 in chips)
> Seat 3: imtheduke ($7.95 in chips)
> Seat 4: thumbers ($55.45 in chips)
> Seat 5: Kimykay ($36.45 in chips)
> Seat 6: Yukao ($30.55 in chips)
> thumbers: posts small blind $0.25
> Kimykay: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [2c 6s Kh 5h 3d]
> Yukao: folds
> anders200: raises $1.25 to $1.75
> snowman7353: folds
> imtheduke: raises $4.25 to $6
> thumbers: calls $5.75

This is a really iffy call ... you're not closing the action here, and
anders200 has plenty of chips left to reraise you with when it gets back
to him. Plus, your hand can never make the nuts, which is bad, since you
can draw perfect and still lose. It looks pretty, but the way the pot is
developing you should probably just fold it here.

> Kimykay: folds
> anders200: calls $4.25
> thumbers: discards 1 card [Kh]
> Dealt to thumbers [5c]
> anders200: discards 2 cards
> imtheduke: discards 1 card
> thumbers: checks
> anders200: checks
> imtheduke: bets $1.95 and is all-in
> thumbers: calls $1.95

Of course, now that you are here, the call is compulsory.

> anders200: calls $1.95
> thumbers: discards 1 card [5h]
> Dealt to thumbers [Ad]
> anders200: discards 2 cards
> imtheduke: discards 1 card
> thumbers: checks
> anders200: checks
> thumbers: discards 1 card [Ad]
> Dealt to thumbers [8c]
> anders200: discards 1 card
> imtheduke: discards 1 card
> thumbers: checks
> anders200: bets $22.10 and is all-in
> thumbers said, "****"
> thumbers: calls $22.10

You should definitely fold here. There is no side pot to bluff you off
of, so anders200 HAS to beat imtheduke at showdown to win this pot. The
only reason to put this much money in the pot at this point is for value.
You should fold. If it turns out he was bluffing you anyway, add them to
your buddy list.

> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> anders200: shows [3h 4h 7d 5d 2d] (Lo: 7,5,4,3,2)
> thumbers: mucks hand
> anders200 collected $42.35 from side pot
> imtheduke: mucks hand
> anders200 collected $23.20 from main pot
> anders200 said, "nuts"
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $68.55 Main pot $23.20. Side pot $42.35.

Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:20:30
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

and ouch, here's another one. should I really have known I was beat here?
God I suck

PokerStars Game #7239281224: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
2006/11/30 - 13:15:22 (ET)
Table 'Tolosa II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: ntnbutlax ($30.15 in chips)
Seat 2: trps42 ($27.70 in chips)
Seat 3: vanMelick ($52.20 in chips)
Seat 4: thumbers ($61.60 in chips)
Seat 5: puffcloud ($26.45 in chips)
Seat 6: dlc481 ($27.30 in chips)
ntnbutlax: posts small blind $0.25
trps42: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to thumbers [9s 6h 7h 5h Qh]
vanMelick: folds
thumbers: calls $0.50
puffcloud: folds
dlc481: calls $0.50
ntnbutlax: calls $0.25
trps42: checks
ntnbutlax: discards 2 cards
trps42: discards 2 cards
thumbers: discards 2 cards [9s Qh]
Dealt to thumbers [Jh 4h]
dlc481: discards 2 cards
ntnbutlax: bets $1
trps42: folds
thumbers: calls $1
dlc481: raises $1.50 to $2.50
ntnbutlax: calls $1.50
thumbers: calls $1.50
ntnbutlax: discards 1 card
thumbers: discards 1 card [Jh]
Dealt to thumbers [2c]
dlc481: stands pat
ntnbutlax: checks
thumbers: checks
dlc481: bets $3.50
ntnbutlax: folds
thumbers: raises $10.50 to $14
dlc481: calls $10.50
thumbers: stands pat
dlc481: stands pat
thumbers: bets $10.50
dlc481: calls $10.30 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thumbers: shows [2c 6h 7h 5h 4h] (Lo: 7,6,5,4,2)
dlc481: shows [3s 6d 7c 4s 2d] (Lo: 7,6,4,3,2)
dlc481 collected $55.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $58.10

Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:47:25
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:31:21
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

OK, that helps a lot. Is there a list of correct starting hands by
position somewhere that u know of?

On Nov 30 2006 1:47 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Nov 30 2006 11:20 AM, pokerchimp wrote:
>
> > and ouch, here's another one. should I really have known I was beat here?
> > God I suck
> >
> > PokerStars Game #7239281224: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> > 2006/11/30 - 13:15:22 (ET)
> > Table 'Tolosa II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
> > Seat 1: ntnbutlax ($30.15 in chips)
> > Seat 2: trps42 ($27.70 in chips)
> > Seat 3: vanMelick ($52.20 in chips)
> > Seat 4: thumbers ($61.60 in chips)
> > Seat 5: puffcloud ($26.45 in chips)
> > Seat 6: dlc481 ($27.30 in chips)
> > ntnbutlax: posts small blind $0.25
> > trps42: posts big blind $0.50
> > *** DEALING HANDS ***
> > Dealt to thumbers [9s 6h 7h 5h Qh]
>
> Before I see the rest, this is a terrbile starting hand. Fold this shit.
>
> > vanMelick: folds
> > thumbers: calls $0.50
> > puffcloud: folds
> > dlc481: calls $0.50
> > ntnbutlax: calls $0.25
> > trps42: checks
> > ntnbutlax: discards 2 cards
> > trps42: discards 2 cards
> > thumbers: discards 2 cards [9s Qh]
> > Dealt to thumbers [Jh 4h]
> > dlc481: discards 2 cards
> > ntnbutlax: bets $1
> > trps42: folds
> > thumbers: calls $1
>
> Oh for god's sake. You have a 4 straightflush! Your only solid outs are
> 3 off suit deuces to the 4th nuts. Other than that, you have 2 outs to a
> 97654. This is terrible. FOLD.
>
> > dlc481: raises $1.50 to $2.50
> > ntnbutlax: calls $1.50
> > thumbers: calls $1.50
> > ntnbutlax: discards 1 card
> > thumbers: discards 1 card [Jh]
> > Dealt to thumbers [2c]
>
> Unbelieveable.
>
> > dlc481: stands pat
> > ntnbutlax: checks
> > thumbers: checks
> > dlc481: bets $3.50
> > ntnbutlax: folds
> > thumbers: raises $10.50 to $14
>
> Yes, you have to.
>
> > dlc481: calls $10.50
> > thumbers: stands pat
> > dlc481: stands pat
> > thumbers: bets $10.50
>
> And yes, I do the same here.
>
> > dlc481: calls $10.30 and is all-in
> > *** SHOW DOWN ***
> > thumbers: shows [2c 6h 7h 5h 4h] (Lo: 7,6,5,4,2)
> > dlc481: shows [3s 6d 7c 4s 2d] (Lo: 7,6,4,3,2)
> > dlc481 collected $55.30 from pot
> > *** SUMMARY ***
> > Total pot $58.10

Date: 01 Dec 2006 09:12:40
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:31:21 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com >
wrote:

>OK, that helps a lot. Is there a list of correct starting hands by
>position somewhere that u know of?

It seems to me you have to know what you're aiming at and the starting
hands will be starts to that end. I guess that's a bit like any poker
game but particularly so for this one.

--

Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com

Date: 30 Nov 2006 15:41:00
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 30 2006 4:12 PM, Dr Zen wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:31:21 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >OK, that helps a lot. Is there a list of correct starting hands by
> >position somewhere that u know of?
>
> It seems to me you have to know what you're aiming at and the starting
> hands will be starts to that end. I guess that's a bit like any poker
> game but particularly so for this one.

Wow, that's insightful.

To pokerchimp: the only book (that I know of) with 2-7 TD strategy is
Super System II, and it's a really good read.

It is limit, however, but if you read Super System I on KCL, it helps to
understand the big bet approach ... to a degree.

There isn't anything about PL/NL TD written yet that I know of. I think
you just have to make some logical assumptions about how to adjust, and do
some math so you understand the vulnerability of decent but non-premium
pat hands across x number of draws, so you know when to jam to protect
your hand and when you can value bet without much fear of being outdrawn.

Oh, yeah, and always have a deuce. Don't leave home without it!

> --
>
> Dr Zen
> King of the wild pixels.
> http://gollyg.blogspot.com

~ MysteriAce

"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"

_____________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 01 Dec 2006 11:54:26
From: Dr Zen
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:41:00 -0800, "MysteriAce"
<a9c1edc@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>On Nov 30 2006 4:12 PM, Dr Zen wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:31:21 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >OK, that helps a lot. Is there a list of correct starting hands by
>> >position somewhere that u know of?
>>
>> It seems to me you have to know what you're aiming at and the starting
>> hands will be starts to that end. I guess that's a bit like any poker
>> game but particularly so for this one.
>
>Wow, that's insightful.
>

Dude, I don't know the first fucking thing about this form of poker
and I don't claim to. I'm trying to be helpful in a small way.

Pokerchimp clearly *has not been* thinking like this, so maybe it
helps her for someone to talk in those terms.

>To pokerchimp: the only book (that I know of) with 2-7 TD strategy is
>Super System II, and it's a really good read.
>
>It is limit, however, but if you read Super System I on KCL, it helps to
>understand the big bet approach ... to a degree.
>
>There isn't anything about PL/NL TD written yet that I know of. I think
>you just have to make some logical assumptions about how to adjust, and do
>some math so you understand the vulnerability of decent but non-premium
>pat hands across x number of draws, so you know when to jam to protect
>your hand and when you can value bet without much fear of being outdrawn.
>
>Oh, yeah, and always have a deuce. Don't leave home without it!
>
>> --
>>
>> Dr Zen
>> King of the wild pixels.
>> http://gollyg.blogspot.com
>
>
>~ MysteriAce
>
>"Ashes and diamonds
>Foe and friend
>We were all equal in the end"
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

--

Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com

Date: 30 Nov 2006 23:31:22
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

Cool, I just happen to have a copy of SS1 laying around somewhere.

On Nov 30 2006 6:41 PM, MysteriAce wrote:

> On Nov 30 2006 4:12 PM, Dr Zen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:31:21 -0800, "pokerchimp" <mixthing@se.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >OK, that helps a lot. Is there a list of correct starting hands by
> > >position somewhere that u know of?
> >
> > It seems to me you have to know what you're aiming at and the starting
> > hands will be starts to that end. I guess that's a bit like any poker
> > game but particularly so for this one.
>
> Wow, that's insightful.
>
> To pokerchimp: the only book (that I know of) with 2-7 TD strategy is
> Super System II, and it's a really good read.
>
> It is limit, however, but if you read Super System I on KCL, it helps to
> understand the big bet approach ... to a degree.
>
> There isn't anything about PL/NL TD written yet that I know of. I think
> you just have to make some logical assumptions about how to adjust, and do
> some math so you understand the vulnerability of decent but non-premium
> pat hands across x number of draws, so you know when to jam to protect
> your hand and when you can value bet without much fear of being outdrawn.
>
> Oh, yeah, and always have a deuce. Don't leave home without it!
>
> > --
> >
> > Dr Zen
> > King of the wild pixels.
> > http://gollyg.blogspot.com
>
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "Ashes and diamonds
> Foe and friend
> We were all equal in the end"

thumbers on stars, pokerchimp1 on absolute

-------
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 02 Dec 2006 15:51:42
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 30 2006 12:31 PM, pokerchimp wrote:

> OK, that helps a lot. Is there a list of correct starting hands by
> position somewhere that u know of?

Super/System 2.

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:35:22
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 30 2006 11:20 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> and ouch, here's another one. should I really have known I was beat here?
> God I suck
>
> PokerStars Game #7239281224: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> 2006/11/30 - 13:15:22 (ET)
> Table 'Tolosa II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 1: ntnbutlax ($30.15 in chips)
> Seat 2: trps42 ($27.70 in chips)
> Seat 3: vanMelick ($52.20 in chips)
> Seat 4: thumbers ($61.60 in chips)
> Seat 5: puffcloud ($26.45 in chips)
> Seat 6: dlc481 ($27.30 in chips)
> ntnbutlax: posts small blind $0.25
> trps42: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [9s 6h 7h 5h Qh]
> vanMelick: folds
> thumbers: calls $0.50

I don't think I'd play a hand like this unless the table was full of
passive calling stations. You really want to have a deuce in hand in this
game when you draw. The problems with your hand are that they are
3-suited and a 3-straight. I think I would raise this hand on the button,
but I don't know that I'd limp with it in EP.

> puffcloud: folds
> dlc481: calls $0.50
> ntnbutlax: calls $0.25
> trps42: checks
> ntnbutlax: discards 2 cards
> trps42: discards 2 cards
> thumbers: discards 2 cards [9s Qh]
> Dealt to thumbers [Jh 4h]
> dlc481: discards 2 cards
> ntnbutlax: bets $1
> trps42: folds
> thumbers: calls $1
> dlc481: raises $1.50 to $2.50
> ntnbutlax: calls $1.50
> thumbers: calls $1.50

Here's part of the problem with playing this hand here (the 567). You
caught "good" (relatively), but your only out is a deuce. You can't
really fold for $1 when you have position on the bettor, nor when it comes
back for $1.50 more. But the net result is that you put in $2.50 into a
~$10 pot with only 3 potential outs (the 2h is no good, and making a 97654
is practically worthless), 1 or more of which is likely to be in your
opponents hands already.

This hand is already turning into a money bleeder, real fast.

> ntnbutlax: discards 1 card
> thumbers: discards 1 card [Jh]
> Dealt to thumbers [2c]

Now you caught perfect, but you still have the 4th best hand possible.

> dlc481: stands pat
> ntnbutlax: checks
> thumbers: checks
> dlc481: bets $3.50
> ntnbutlax: folds
> thumbers: raises $10.50 to $14

No choice here. Now that you have your hand, you have to bet it.

> dlc481: calls $10.50
> thumbers: stands pat
> dlc481: stands pat
> thumbers: bets $10.50
> dlc481: calls $10.30 and is all-in

Eh, this isn't terrible, I guess. You weren't reraised, so, AT BEST, your
opponent can only have 2 hands that beat you (since a 75432 would already
be all in). Tough break, but it does underline why hands like this are
dubious to play out of position at best. You caught just about the best
cards you could but lost anyway. That's rough. But the key thing to
remember is how big a dog you were to get there in the first place.
That's the real issue.

> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> thumbers: shows [2c 6h 7h 5h 4h] (Lo: 7,6,5,4,2)
> dlc481: shows [3s 6d 7c 4s 2d] (Lo: 7,6,4,3,2)
> dlc481 collected $55.30 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $58.10

Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:16:02
From: pokerchimp
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

OK, yet another hand. (You guys can tell me to chill. But this game is so
rarely discussed I thought posting HH would be okay for a while)

PokerStars Game #7239170216: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
2006/11/30 - 13:03:06 (ET)
Table 'Tolosa II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: ntnbutlax ($34.40 in chips)
Seat 2: trps42 ($11.40 in chips)
Seat 3: vanMelick ($47.90 in chips)
Seat 4: thumbers ($63.50 in chips)
Seat 5: puffcloud ($29.70 in chips)
Seat 6: zizijoon ($44.30 in chips)
puffcloud: posts small blind $0.25
zizijoon: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to thumbers [7s 2h Qs 3s 2d]
ntnbutlax: folds
trps42: calls $0.50
vanMelick: folds
thumbers: calls $0.50
puffcloud: folds
zizijoon: raises $1.50 to $2
trps42: calls $1.50
thumbers: calls $1.50
zizijoon: discards 1 card
trps42: discards 2 cards
thumbers: discards 2 cards [Qs 2d]
Dealt to thumbers [Ac 5c]
zizijoon: bets $3
trps42: raises $6.40 to $9.40 and is all-in
thumbers: folds
zizijoon: calls $6.40
zizijoon: discards 1 card
trps42: stands pat
zizijoon: discards 2 cards
trps42: stands pat
*** SHOW DOWN ***
zizijoon: shows [6h 4c 7h 3h 4s] (Lo: a pair of Fours)
trps42: shows [2s 7c 8c 3d 4h] (Lo: 8,7,4,3,2)
trps42 collected $23.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $25.05

Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:55:02
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 30 2006 11:16 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> OK, yet another hand. (You guys can tell me to chill. But this game is so
> rarely discussed I thought posting HH would be okay for a while)

BTW, 2-7 TD is one of my absolute favorite games, post as many HH's as you
like, I enjoy discussing this game,too. My background (obviously, since
PL/NL haven't been spread until Stars opened up the games) is in limit,
but I'm adapting to PL/NL (although I think NL is the devil, PL rules).

I've played a bit of KCL, though, so I think there is a good meld that can
be achieved between the two games by adapting principles from each.

~ MysteriAce

"Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end"

_______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:42:45
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 30 2006 11:16 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> OK, yet another hand. (You guys can tell me to chill. But this game is so
> rarely discussed I thought posting HH would be okay for a while)
>
> PokerStars Game #7239170216: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> 2006/11/30 - 13:03:06 (ET)
> Table 'Tolosa II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
> Seat 1: ntnbutlax ($34.40 in chips)
> Seat 2: trps42 ($11.40 in chips)
> Seat 3: vanMelick ($47.90 in chips)
> Seat 4: thumbers ($63.50 in chips)
> Seat 5: puffcloud ($29.70 in chips)
> Seat 6: zizijoon ($44.30 in chips)
> puffcloud: posts small blind $0.25
> zizijoon: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [7s 2h Qs 3s 2d]
> ntnbutlax: folds
> trps42: calls $0.50
> vanMelick: folds
> thumbers: calls $0.50

Raise. You have 2 key deuces, and a very strong draw, and position.

> puffcloud: folds
> zizijoon: raises $1.50 to $2
> trps42: calls $1.50
> thumbers: calls $1.50
> zizijoon: discards 1 card
> trps42: discards 2 cards
> thumbers: discards 2 cards [Qs 2d]
> Dealt to thumbers [Ac 5c]
> zizijoon: bets $3
> trps42: raises $6.40 to $9.40 and is all-in
> thumbers: folds

You cannot call, you can only fold or repot it (knowing that due to your
opponent's stack, your opponent is likely desperate, and has a weak hand,
having drawn 2 the previous round. I would think that any 4, 6, or 8
would be a likely winner, and a 9 might even win for you. Depends what
your goals are.

> zizijoon: calls $6.40
> zizijoon: discards 1 card
> trps42: stands pat
> zizijoon: discards 2 cards

Uh.... Add this guy to your buddy list.

> trps42: stands pat
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> zizijoon: shows [6h 4c 7h 3h 4s] (Lo: a pair of Fours)
> trps42: shows [2s 7c 8c 3d 4h] (Lo: 8,7,4,3,2)
> trps42 collected $23.85 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $25.05

Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:26:41
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: 2-7 BAHH Analysis

On Nov 30 2006 11:16 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> OK, yet another hand. (You guys can tell me to chill. But this game is so
> rarely discussed I thought posting HH would be okay for a while)
>
> PokerStars Game #7239170216: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> 2006/11/30 - 13:03:06 (ET)
> Table 'Tolosa II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
> Seat 1: ntnbutlax ($34.40 in chips)
> Seat 2: trps42 ($11.40 in chips)
> Seat 3: vanMelick ($47.90 in chips)
> Seat 4: thumbers ($63.50 in chips)
> Seat 5: puffcloud ($29.70 in chips)
> Seat 6: zizijoon ($44.30 in chips)
> puffcloud: posts small blind $0.25
> zizijoon: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [7s 2h Qs 3s 2d]
> ntnbutlax: folds
> trps42: calls $0.50
> vanMelick: folds
> thumbers: calls $0.50
> puffcloud: folds
> zizijoon: raises $1.50 to $2
> trps42: calls $1.50
> thumbers: calls $1.50

Seems fine.

> zizijoon: discards 1 card
> trps42: discards 2 cards
> thumbers: discards 2 cards [Qs 2d]
> Dealt to thumbers [Ac 5c]
> zizijoon: bets $3
> trps42: raises $6.40 to $9.40 and is all-in
> thumbers: folds

Good fold, with zizijoon drawing 1 and betting, then being raised by the
player who drew two, you can't really call here. You'll still make a 7
about 33% of the time, but you can't know if you will get reraised by zizi
because they are pat.

> zizijoon: calls $6.40
> zizijoon: discards 1 card
> trps42: stands pat
> zizijoon: discards 2 cards
> trps42: stands pat
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> zizijoon: shows [6h 4c 7h 3h 4s] (Lo: a pair of Fours)
> trps42: shows [2s 7c 8c 3d 4h] (Lo: 8,7,4,3,2)
> trps42 collected $23.85 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $25.05

Date: 01 Dec 2006 02:45:56
From: pokerchimp
Subject: A new hand

I know the fold was correct. Questions...should I have raised on the
button b4 the flop, folded the hand, or called as I did.
PokerStars Game #7250490884: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
2006/12/01 - 05:34:40 (ET)
Table 'Eurykleia' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Jovocop ($68.65 in chips)
Seat 2: dlc481 ($180.45 in chips)
Seat 3: Flippin Aces ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 4: sgold ($37.50 in chips)
Seat 5: thumbers ($37.35 in chips)
Jovocop: posts small blind $0.25
dlc481: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to thumbers [7s 8h 3c 6h Tc]
Flippin Aces: calls $0.50
LordJuan leaves the table
sgold: folds
thumbers: calls $0.50
Jovocop: folds
dlc481: checks
dlc481: discards 2 cards
Flippin Aces: discards 3 cards
thumbers: discards 1 card [Tc]
Dealt to thumbers [5s]
dlc481: checks
Flippin Aces: checks
thumbers: bets $1.70
dlc481: folds
Flippin Aces: calls $1.70
Flippin Aces: discards 1 card
thumbers: stands pat
Flippin Aces: checks
thumbers: bets $4.90
Flippin Aces: raises $14.70 to $19.60
thumbers: folds
Flippin Aces collected $14.25 from pot
Flippin Aces: shows [6s 2d 5h 7d 3d] (Lo: 7,6,5,3,2)
thumbers said, "good bet"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.95

Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:26:37
From: MysteriAce
Subject: Re: A new hand

On Dec 1 2006 3:45 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> I know the fold was correct. Questions...should I have raised on the
> button b4 the flop, folded the hand, or called as I did.
> PokerStars Game #7250490884: Triple Draw 2-7 Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
> 2006/12/01 - 05:34:40 (ET)
> Table 'Eurykleia' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
> Seat 1: Jovocop ($68.65 in chips)
> Seat 2: dlc481 ($180.45 in chips)
> Seat 3: Flippin Aces ($49.50 in chips)
> Seat 4: sgold ($37.50 in chips)
> Seat 5: thumbers ($37.35 in chips)
> Jovocop: posts small blind $0.25
> dlc481: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [7s 8h 3c 6h Tc]
> Flippin Aces: calls $0.50
> LordJuan leaves the table
> sgold: folds
> thumbers: calls $0.50
> Jovocop: folds
> dlc481: checks
> dlc481: discards 2 cards
> Flippin Aces: discards 3 cards
> thumbers: discards 1 card [Tc]
> Dealt to thumbers [5s]
> dlc481: checks
> Flippin Aces: checks
> thumbers: bets $1.70
> dlc481: folds
> Flippin Aces: calls $1.70
> Flippin Aces: discards 1 card
> thumbers: stands pat
> Flippin Aces: checks
> thumbers: bets $4.90
> Flippin Aces: raises $14.70 to $19.60
> thumbers: folds
> Flippin Aces collected $14.25 from pot
> Flippin Aces: shows [6s 2d 5h 7d 3d] (Lo: 7,6,5,3,2)
> thumbers said, "good bet"
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $14.95

Date: 02 Dec 2006 18:19:50
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: A new hand

On Dec 1 2006 3:45 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> I know the fold was correct. Questions...should I have raised on the
> button b4 the flop, folded the hand, or called as I did.

Or folded. Nothing wrong with folding :)

What did MysteriAce saw about the deuce? Listen.

Fell
--
Website: www.fellknight.com
Email: fellknight at gmail dot com

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Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:28:16
From: pokerchimp
Subject: yet another BAHH...I figured it out, I really do suck at this game

I am going to sleep, gonna read the chapter in SS1 and invest another $40.
I'm stuck $130 which feel like a lot (over 3 days) at this limit.

PLease, walk me through this hand.

PokerStars Game #7252993336: Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Pot Limit
($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/01 - 12:32:22 (ET)
Table 'Eurykleia' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: CaptainTrips ($30.90 in chips)
Seat 2: sgold ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 4: thumbers ($29.20 in chips)
Seat 5: dlc481 ($22.55 in chips)
Seat 6: Respect ($78.25 in chips)
sgold: posts small blind $0.25
Spartacus811: is sitting out
thumbers: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to thumbers [8h 6s 3h 5s 3d] I am in the BB
dlc481: folds
Respect: folds
CaptainTrips: raises $1 to $1.50
sgold: folds
Spartacus811 leaves the table
thumbers: calls $1 (Mistake?)
*** FIRST DRAW ***
thumbers: discards 1 card [3h] (Mistake, toss 8?)
Dealt to thumbers [8h 6s 5s 3d] [7d]
CaptainTrips: discards 2 cards
thumbers: bets $3
LarryExpo joins the table at seat #3
CaptainTrips: raises $9.10 to $12.10 I guess I should have folded. I took
into account he drew 2 cards. Also, I'd seen him bet a 9 twice.

thumbers: raises $15.60 to $27.70 and is all-in
CaptainTrips: calls $15.60
*** SECOND DRAW ***
thumbers: stands pat on [8h 6s 5s 3d 7d] (should I have drawn at this
point?
CaptainTrips: stands pat
*** THIRD DRAW ***
thumbers: stands pat on [8h 6s 5s 3d 7d] (or at this point?
CaptainTrips: stands pat
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thumbers: shows [8h 6s 7d 5s 3d] (Lo: 8,7,6,5,3)
CaptainTrips: shows [2d 4c 6c 8s 5c] (Lo: 8,6,5,4,2)
CaptainTrips collected $56.65 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $58.65

Date: 02 Dec 2006 18:23:55
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: yet another BAHH...I figured it out, I really do suck at this game

On Dec 1 2006 11:28 AM, pokerchimp wrote:

> I am going to sleep, gonna read the chapter in SS1 and invest another $40.
> I'm stuck $130 which feel like a lot (over 3 days) at this limit.
>
> PLease, walk me through this hand.
>
> PokerStars Game #7252993336: Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Pot Limit
> ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/01 - 12:32:22 (ET)
> Table 'Eurykleia' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
> Seat 1: CaptainTrips ($30.90 in chips)
> Seat 2: sgold ($23.95 in chips)
> Seat 4: thumbers ($29.20 in chips)
> Seat 5: dlc481 ($22.55 in chips)
> Seat 6: Respect ($78.25 in chips)
> sgold: posts small blind $0.25
> Spartacus811: is sitting out
> thumbers: posts big blind $0.50
> *** DEALING HANDS ***
> Dealt to thumbers [8h 6s 3h 5s 3d] I am in the BB
> dlc481: folds
> Respect: folds
> CaptainTrips: raises $1 to $1.50
> sgold: folds
> Spartacus811 leaves the table
> thumbers: calls $1 (Mistake?)

Not really, especially if he has been active, as you imply.

> *** FIRST DRAW ***
> thumbers: discards 1 card [3h] (Mistake, toss 8?)

No.

> Dealt to thumbers [8h 6s 5s 3d] [7d]
> CaptainTrips: discards 2 cards
> thumbers: bets $3
> LarryExpo joins the table at seat #3
> CaptainTrips: raises $9.10 to $12.10 I guess I should have folded. I took
> into account he drew 2 cards. Also, I'd seen him bet a 9 twice.
>
> thumbers: raises $15.60 to $27.70 and is all-in

I'm ok with this. The stacks are too shallow to do much else but fold,
and he may very well be raising you after the first draw simply because he
expects you to bet into him when he drew 2 and you drew 1. I would raise
you if I drew 2 to a wheel and then caught a 7 draw (knowing that your
draw cannot be that good since you only called predraw), and thus that I
either had the best draw, or the best hand and the best draw.

> CaptainTrips: calls $15.60
> *** SECOND DRAW ***
> thumbers: stands pat on [8h 6s 5s 3d 7d] (should I have drawn at this
> point?

No.

> CaptainTrips: stands pat
> *** THIRD DRAW ***
> thumbers: stands pat on [8h 6s 5s 3d 7d] (or at this point?)

This is more iffy. I think I draw here. Unless he is standing pat on a 9
after seeing you stand pat, you are behind here. You cannot even beat any
8.

> CaptainTrips: stands pat
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> thumbers: shows [8h 6s 7d 5s 3d] (Lo: 8,7,6,5,3)
> CaptainTrips: shows [2d 4c 6c 8s 5c] (Lo: 8,6,5,4,2)
> CaptainTrips collected $56.65 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $58.65