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Date: 08 Dec 2008 13:20:54
From: Advance Scout
Subject: checking in the dark rules

Tournament- full table.

Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
of turn?












 
Date: 09 Dec 2008 07:08:07
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
On Dec 8 2008 12:20 PM, Advance Scout wrote:

> Tournament- full table.
>
> Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
> C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
> dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
> of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
> have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
> of turn?


tHERE WAS A DEALER AT CAS AZ .. who thought he was "controlling the game'.
Before he flopped the cards , I said 'check in the dark" , and to show how
sharp he was , he says "You cant check what you cant see!!!"

he turned the flop , and looked at me .. I looked back , and told him that
I had already acted .
he ended up making such an issue out of it that they had to call the floor
, and I thought they were going to have to haul him off in a rubber
ambulance .

But he "controlled his game "

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 08 Dec 2008 15:26:20
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
On Dec 8 2008 12:20 PM, Advance Scout wrote:

> Tournament- full table.
>
> Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
> C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
> dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
> of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
> have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
> of turn?

NO .. any good dealer would say . 3 players , and he is first to act "
which nullifies any action out of turn .

If it is deemed to be a shot , or you actually see this when the 3 rd
player wants to talk the other into checking it down , to take a cheap
shot at busting all in man .

The scenario you described, is a lame ass attempt at collusion for that
one hand .


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 08 Dec 2008 12:40:01
From:
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
On Dec 8, 1:20=A0pm, Advance Scout <ivan...@nospam.com > wrote:
> Tournament- full table.
>
> Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
> C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
> dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
> of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
> have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
> of turn?


This is not a "checking in the dark" question. This is an "acting out
of turn" question. At least where I mostly play, action out of turn is
binding unless there's action (a bet) before it gets to you. i.e., If
you say "I bet $1000" out of turn, and it's checked to you, you have
to bet $1000. If someone in front bets anything, you can fold, call
or raise. If you check out of turn, and someone bets in front, again,
you can fold, call or raise. If they all check, your check stands.

If I was the floor here, I wouldn't let player C bet, and if he acted
out of turn again trying to shoot an angle like this, then I'd whack
him. I've seen this before - what it looks like is he was trying to
get some sort read on B. If B thinks C's check is binding, and B
still checks, odds are B has nothing or a monster. Since nothing is
more common than a monster, it's a pretty safe bet if you're player C
to get it HU.





  
Date: 09 Dec 2008 12:07:37
From:
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
On Dec 8, 6:29=A0pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Dec 8 2008 2:40 PM, johnnycoconutsftp wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 8, 1:20=A0pm, Advance Scout <ivan...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > Tournament- full table.
>
> > > Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Play=
er
> > > C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in th=
e
> > > dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> > > announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" =
out
> > > of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player=
C
> > > have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> > > though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was ou=
t
> > > of turn?
>
> > This is not a "checking in the dark" question. =A0This is an "acting ou=
t
> > of turn" question. At least where I mostly play, action out of turn is
> > binding unless there's action (a bet) before it gets to you. =A0i.e., I=
f
> > you say "I bet $1000" out of turn, and it's checked to you, you have
> > to bet $1000. =A0If someone in front bets anything, you can fold, call
> > or raise. =A0If you check out of turn, and someone bets in front, again=
,
> > you can fold, call or raise. =A0If they all check, your check stands.
>
> WE JUST WENT THRU THIS ONE , and it was agreed that a couple of podunk
> rooms with moron management do it that way , but the norm is that OOT
> action isnt binding
>
>
>
> > If I was the floor here, I wouldn't let player C bet, and if he acted
> > out of turn again trying to shoot an angle like this, then I'd whack
> > him. I've seen this before - what it looks like is he was trying to
> > get some sort read on B. =A0If B thinks C's check is binding, and B
> > still checks, odds are B has nothing or a monster. Since nothing is
> > more common than a monster, it's a pretty safe bet if you're player C
> > to get it HU.
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities=
.
> Voltaire
>
> -----=A0
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com- Hide =
quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


After I posted this, I was reading CP (the one with Eastgate on the
cover) and Ciaffone (sp?) had a long article about this. Pretty
interesting - he sees the angle coming from a different direction than
I do. Didn't seem to resolve anything though, sort of a "some rooms
do this....some rooms do that" result.

The point of the article SHOULD have been that we need a universal set
of rules. Although at this point I'd settle for having only 6 or 7
different groups trying to be the ones who get to draft them (at last
count we had the WSOP Players Committe, the PPA, the WPA, the TDA,
some international one that some pro just started, the AARP, the CIA,
Oprah's Book Club, etc. etc.). No wonder people see poker as a game/
sport/whatever that has no clue what it's doing.





  
Date: 08 Dec 2008 15:29:00
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
On Dec 8 2008 2:40 PM, johnnycoconutsftp wrote:

> On Dec 8, 1:20 pm, Advance Scout <ivan...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Tournament- full table.
> >
> > Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
> > C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
> > dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> > announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
> > of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
> > have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> > though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
> > of turn?
>
>
> This is not a "checking in the dark" question. This is an "acting out
> of turn" question. At least where I mostly play, action out of turn is
> binding unless there's action (a bet) before it gets to you. i.e., If
> you say "I bet $1000" out of turn, and it's checked to you, you have
> to bet $1000. If someone in front bets anything, you can fold, call
> or raise. If you check out of turn, and someone bets in front, again,
> you can fold, call or raise. If they all check, your check stands.

WE JUST WENT THRU THIS ONE , and it was agreed that a couple of podunk
rooms with moron management do it that way , but the norm is that OOT
action isnt binding
>
> If I was the floor here, I wouldn't let player C bet, and if he acted
> out of turn again trying to shoot an angle like this, then I'd whack
> him. I've seen this before - what it looks like is he was trying to
> get some sort read on B. If B thinks C's check is binding, and B
> still checks, odds are B has nothing or a monster. Since nothing is
> more common than a monster, it's a pretty safe bet if you're player C
> to get it HU.


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 08 Dec 2008 11:15:04
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
First off, you have have a stupid name. An advance scout would have
been out scouting around for the answer before asking a typical
beginner question here. First, player C can't check in the dark, as
the action isn't on him, it's on player B. Player B could check in the
dark.





On Dec 8, 10:20=EF=BF=BDam, Advance Scout <ivan...@nospam.com > wrote:
> Tournament- full table.
>
> Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
> C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
> dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
> of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
> have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
> of turn?



 
Date: 08 Dec 2008 11:11:20
From: La Cosa Nostradamus
Subject: Re: checking in the dark rules
On Dec 8 2008 1:20 PM, Advance Scout wrote:

> Tournament- full table.
>
> Player A goes all-in preflop for $500. Two callers- Player B and Player
> C. Right before dealer deals the flop Player C announces "Check in the
> dark". Player B checks the flop - presumably because of Player C's
> announcement. Turns out that Player C had called "Check in the dark" out
> of turn so now he gets to bet again - and raises $1000. Should Player C
> have been held to his check since he made a verbal declaration even
> though it was out of turn or allowed to raise $1000 because it was out
> of turn?

Was the guy that changed his bet named Scott/sjackoffmama ?

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