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Date: 12 Jan 2009 20:10:48
From: FangBanger
Subject: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN

Multi table SNG..final table

lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed

You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG

I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
this spot

If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
to do .

If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked

if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems

If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playing
any ace really hard back at you.

I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!

PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!

Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pair
they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.

Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
something !!


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

____________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com





 
Date: 15 Jan 2009 13:12:09
From: Dave the Clueless
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
Even better, imagine you are UTG +1 or hijack or cutoff or button or
big blind or small blind (or nascently homosexual for using these fag-
ass terms for every fucking chair at a poker table). The UTG player, a
known nit, jams into a pot of 1200 for 6500. You have enough chips to
call, but it will cripple you if goober has a hand. And he probably
does. Jesus, he's folded himself into the short stack. Are you gonna
call? Not likely.

And in this case folding begets folding.



 
Date: 13 Jan 2009 15:37:42
From: Travel A
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
I think anyone would agree about waiting for better position, but
especially against weak players, the nuts flush possibility is tempting.

I'm sure that I'd play this hand. I'd limp and hope for a reasonably
cheap flop.

It's a flush-play all the way. Without the four-flush flop, you're
obviously playing Ax UTG to get out-kicked on an A flop; raising or
jamming would be out of the question, in my mind.



 
Date: 13 Jan 2009 08:59:49
From: charrison100
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 12 2009 11:10 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
>
> Multi table SNG..final table
>
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
>
> I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> this spot
>
> If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
> to do .
>
> If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
>
> if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
>
> If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playing
> any ace really hard back at you.
>
> I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
> clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
>
> PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
>
> Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pair
> they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
>
> Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> something !!
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

If it's 400/800 and you have 6500 then you are on a lifeline but not dead.
I am looking for AT or better and pairs 7 and up and I shove.

I am not going to risk it with a shitty kicker knowing that full well that
if they call I am going to be crushed.

If you haven't gotten a hand and your stack gets to 3500 or lower then I
am pushing everything.

Another option is to blind out and hope to move up the pay scale but
that's the pussy way out.

Chris

________________________________________________________________________
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Date: 13 Jan 2009 08:09:07
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed

lol

uhhhh....

lol

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

________________________________________________________________________
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Date: 13 Jan 2009 04:54:08
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 12 2009 11:10 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
>
> Multi table SNG..final table
>
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
>
> I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> this spot
>
> If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
> to do .
>
> If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
>
> if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
>
> If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playing
> any ace really hard back at you.
>
> I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
> clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
>
> PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
>
> Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pair
> they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
>
> Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> something !!
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

Situational, but more times than not it's a fold.

______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 13 Jan 2009 03:32:24
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 13, 5:10=A0pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> Multi table SNG..final table
>
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> You have A5 ..A4 =A0or =A0A3 suited UTG
>
> I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> this spot

You have to jam here. The reason is you make it as
unattractive as possible for anyone to call you. At the
end stages of a MTT (at higher than the $1 level)
you *won't* get donk calls from A8 here, unless it is
a player who has such a huge stack that he doesn't
care if he loses.

It's important to do this while you still have enough chips
to threaten anyone. 6500 is already very close to being
so low that someone with say 15000 chips will call you
with ATC because of good pot odds.

So, end result is that most of the time everyone folds
and you increase your stack by 2000 (meaning you're
in an even better position to jam on future hands),
occasionally you get called, but even then you're
still at least 35% to win the hand, if not more.

Folding is horrible, you'll have your stack crippled by
the blinds and then you will be totally at the mercy
of the cards. The plan is to at least keep your stack
at the level where you can get people to fold, or even
if you get called and win, you're back to being able to
play proper poker again..

Getting so short that you are at the mercy of the cards,
is a cardinal sin.

I'd actually be jamming any paint from here, it doesn't
really matter what you have, what matters is that
you're unlikely to be called; Q7o for example will fare
just about as well as A3s if you are called.


  
Date: 15 Jan 2009 12:25:56
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
You needed Sklansky to tell you this? All players knew the difference
between suited and and unsuited was about 5% back in the 60's.




On Jan 14, 6:22=EF=BF=BDpm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jan 14 2009 10:57 AM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:
>
> > "Joe Long" <nos...@spam.com> wrote in message
> >news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > <snip>
> > > You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. =EF=BF=BDSui=
ted only
> > > adds 6% to your chances to win if called.
>
> > 6% ?!? =EF=BF=BD or 2 - 2=EF=BF=BD %
> > Reread your Phil Gordon book =3D)
>
> Skalansky told me 25 years ago that a basic standard here is that A5 soo
> is about 5% better than A5 off .
>
> 5% was the accepted standard for a long long time .. and I agree with the
> 5% range over the 2 % thingy
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities=
.
> Voltaire
>
> _____________________________________________________________________=EF=
=BF=BD
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com



   
Date: 16 Jan 2009 20:28:07
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 15 2009 2:25 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> You needed Sklansky to tell you this? All players knew the difference
> between suited and and unsuited was about 5% back in the 60's.

I used to see him and talk to him .. so I asked him !!

I got nothing against learning something !!
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 14, 6:22�pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > On Jan 14 2009 10:57 AM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:
> >
> > > "Joe Long" <nos...@spam.com> wrote in message
> > >news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >
> > > <snip>
> > > > You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. �Suited only
> > > > adds 6% to your chances to win if called.
> >
> > > 6% ?!? � or 2 - 2� %
> > > Reread your Phil Gordon book =)
> >
> > Skalansky told me 25 years ago that a basic standard here is that A5 soo
> > is about 5% better than A5 off .
> >
> > 5% was the accepted standard for a long long time .. and I agree with the
> > 5% range over the 2 % thingy
> >
> > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..
> > Voltaire
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________________�
> > * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

-----
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Date: 13 Jan 2009 18:25:40
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
Old Wolf wrote:
> On Jan 13, 5:10 pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>> Multi table SNG..final table
>>
>> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>>
>> You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
>>
>> I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
>> this spot
>
> You have to jam here. The reason is you make it as
> unattractive as possible for anyone to call you. At the
> end stages of a MTT (at higher than the $1 level)
> you *won't* get donk calls from A8 here, unless it is
> a player who has such a huge stack that he doesn't
> care if he loses.

You should jam here if you are taking the bus home, and the last bus
leaves in ten minutes.

You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. Suited only
adds 6% to your chances to win if called.

Your actual best play depends on the table, the size and location of the
other stacks but especially how they are playing (you didn't tell us
anything about the size of the other stacks). If there's a 50% chance
of no raise, you can try to see a cheap flop by limping. If not, muck it.


--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range


   
Date: 14 Jan 2009 11:57:03
From: Mark B [Diputsur]
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!

"Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com > wrote in message
news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...

<snip >
> You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. Suited only
> adds 6% to your chances to win if called.

6% ?!? or 2 - 2 %
Reread your Phil Gordon book =)




    
Date: 14 Jan 2009 18:22:11
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 14 2009 10:57 AM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:

> "Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> <snip>
> > You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. Suited only
> > adds 6% to your chances to win if called.
>
> 6% ?!? or 2 - 2 %
> Reread your Phil Gordon book =)

Skalansky told me 25 years ago that a basic standard here is that A5 soo
is about 5% better than A5 off .

5% was the accepted standard for a long long time .. and I agree with the
5% range over the 2 % thingy


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

_____________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



     
Date: 15 Jan 2009 15:05:20
From: Mark B [Diputsur]
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!

"FangBanger" <a29bed1@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:j7j246x7fu.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 14 2009 10:57 AM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:
>
>> "Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> <snip>
>> > You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. Suited only
>> > adds 6% to your chances to win if called.
>>
>> 6% ?!? or 2 - 2 %
>> Reread your Phil Gordon book =)
>
> Skalansky told me 25 years ago that a basic standard here is that A5 soo
> is about 5% better than A5 off .
>
> 5% was the accepted standard for a long long time .. and I agree with the
> 5% range over the 2 % thingy

You agree too, huh? Let's see what pstove has to say about it:

Hand 0: 59.923% 58.06% 01.86% 1217936943 38989806.00 { Ac5c }
Hand 1: 40.077% 38.22% 01.86% 801655845 38989806.00 { random }

Hand 0: 57.697% 55.74% 01.95% 1169234974 40991606.50 { Ac5d }
Hand 1: 42.303% 40.35% 01.95% 846354213 40991606.50 { random }

difference of: 2.226%




      
Date: 15 Jan 2009 12:19:07
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 15 2009 12:05 PM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:

> "FangBanger" <a29bed1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:j7j246x7fu.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Jan 14 2009 10:57 AM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:
> >
> >> "Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
> >> news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >> > You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. Suited only
> >> > adds 6% to your chances to win if called.
> >>
> >> 6% ?!? or 2 - 2 %
> >> Reread your Phil Gordon book =)
> >
> > Skalansky told me 25 years ago that a basic standard here is that A5 soo
> > is about 5% better than A5 off .
> >
> > 5% was the accepted standard for a long long time .. and I agree with the
> > 5% range over the 2 % thingy
>
> You agree too, huh? Let's see what pstove has to say about it:
>
> Hand 0: 59.923% 58.06% 01.86% 1217936943 38989806.00 { Ac5c }
> Hand 1: 40.077% 38.22% 01.86% 801655845 38989806.00 { random }

Here you are 19.846 greater than your opponent to win.

>
> Hand 0: 57.697% 55.74% 01.95% 1169234974 40991606.50 { Ac5d }
> Hand 1: 42.303% 40.35% 01.95% 846354213 40991606.50 { random }
>
> difference of: 2.226%

Here you are 15.394

A difference of 4.452%. Much close to 5% than 2%.

Brew
--
Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

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Date: 15 Jan 2009 16:04:23
From: Mark B [Diputsur]
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!

"brewmaster" <a163b@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:rai446xou6.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 15 2009 12:05 PM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:
>
>> "FangBanger" <a29bed1@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:j7j246x7fu.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> > On Jan 14 2009 10:57 AM, Mark B [Diputsur] wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:z7SdnSlkyeyIovDUnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>> >> > You aren't short enough yet to be jamming weak Aces UTG. Suited
>> >> > only
>> >> > adds 6% to your chances to win if called.
>> >>
>> >> 6% ?!? or 2 - 2 %
>> >> Reread your Phil Gordon book =)
>> >
>> > Skalansky told me 25 years ago that a basic standard here is that A5
>> > soo
>> > is about 5% better than A5 off .
>> >
>> > 5% was the accepted standard for a long long time .. and I agree with
>> > the
>> > 5% range over the 2 % thingy
>>
>> You agree too, huh? Let's see what pstove has to say about it:
>>
>> Hand 0: 59.923% 58.06% 01.86% 1217936943 38989806.00 { Ac5c }
>> Hand 1: 40.077% 38.22% 01.86% 801655845 38989806.00 { random }
>
> Here you are 19.846 greater than your opponent to win.
>
>>
>> Hand 0: 57.697% 55.74% 01.95% 1169234974 40991606.50 { Ac5d }
>> Hand 1: 42.303% 40.35% 01.95% 846354213 40991606.50 { random }
>>
>> difference of: 2.226%
>
> Here you are 15.394
>
> A difference of 4.452%. Much close to 5% than 2%.

Exactly double the actual increase in equity, as any additional
equity gained by one hand has to be subtraced from the other...
but:
> "A5 soo is about 5% better than A5 off"

A5 soo is only 2.226% better than A5 off - which
equates to a 4.452% advantage over a random hand.

Can I get away with that? =) o0o




  
Date: 13 Jan 2009 06:57:18
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 13 2009 5:32 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> On Jan 13, 5:10pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > Multi table SNG..final table
> >
> > lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
> >
> > You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
> >
> > I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> > this spot
>
> You have to jam here. The reason is you make it as
> unattractive as possible for anyone to call you. At the
> end stages of a MTT (at higher than the $1 level)
> you *won't* get donk calls from A8 here, unless it is
> a player who has such a huge stack that he doesn't
> care if he loses.
>
> It's important to do this while you still have enough chips
> to threaten anyone. 6500 is already very close to being
> so low that someone with say 15000 chips will call you
> with ATC because of good pot odds.

6500 in chips all-in HU and the 900 in blinds is considered "POT ODDS" in
your world ??

YOU SIR ARE A TV SCOOTER MORON
>
> So, end result is that most of the time everyone folds
> and you increase your stack by 2000 (meaning you're
> in an even better position to jam on future hands),
> occasionally you get called, but even then you're
> still at least 35% to win the hand, if not more.
>
> Folding is horrible, you'll have your stack crippled by
> the blinds and then you will be totally at the mercy
> of the cards. The plan is to at least keep your stack
> at the level where you can get people to fold, or even
> if you get called and win, you're back to being able to
> play proper poker again..
>
> Getting so short that you are at the mercy of the cards,
> is a cardinal sin.

YOU PUT "MORON" INTO A NEW CATEGORY
>
> I'd actually be jamming any paint from here, it doesn't
> really matter what you have, what matters is that
> you're unlikely to be called; Q7o for example will fare
> just about as well as A3s if you are called.


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

-----
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



   
Date: 13 Jan 2009 08:51:32
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
> 6500 in chips all-in HU and the 900 in blinds is considered "POT ODDS" in
> your world ??
>
> YOU SIR ARE A TV SCOOTER MORON

Please do NOT EVER refer to pot odds with Doggy you may just make his head
explode.

Doggy: Pot odds? Hrmph shit back in the day we called that 'he don't have
shit I raise'

lol

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

____________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 13 Jan 2009 04:55:45
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 13 2009 6:32 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> On Jan 13, 5:10pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > Multi table SNG..final table
> >
> > lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
> >
> > You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
> >
> > I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> > this spot
>
> You have to jam here. The reason is you make it as
> unattractive as possible for anyone to call you. At the
> end stages of a MTT (at higher than the $1 level)
> you *won't* get donk calls from A8 here, unless it is
> a player who has such a huge stack that he doesn't
> care if he loses.
>
> It's important to do this while you still have enough chips
> to threaten anyone. 6500 is already very close to being
> so low that someone with say 15000 chips will call you
> with ATC because of good pot odds.
>
> So, end result is that most of the time everyone folds
> and you increase your stack by 2000 (meaning you're
> in an even better position to jam on future hands),
> occasionally you get called, but even then you're
> still at least 35% to win the hand, if not more.
>
> Folding is horrible, you'll have your stack crippled by
> the blinds and then you will be totally at the mercy
> of the cards. The plan is to at least keep your stack
> at the level where you can get people to fold, or even
> if you get called and win, you're back to being able to
> play proper poker again..
>
> Getting so short that you are at the mercy of the cards,
> is a cardinal sin.
>
> I'd actually be jamming any paint from here, it doesn't
> really matter what you have, what matters is that
> you're unlikely to be called; Q7o for example will fare
> just about as well as A3s if you are called.

You'll get calls from MUCH worse than A8 even on the bubble. MUCH, MUCH
worse.

_______________________________________________________________________
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Date: 13 Jan 2009 06:52:32
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 13 2009 6:55 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Jan 13 2009 6:32 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
>
> > On Jan 13, 5:10pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > Multi table SNG..final table
> > >
> > > lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
> > >
> > > You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
> > >
> > > I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> > > this spot
> >
> > You have to jam here. The reason is you make it as
> > unattractive as possible for anyone to call you. At the
> > end stages of a MTT (at higher than the $1 level)
> > you *won't* get donk calls from A8 here, unless it is
> > a player who has such a huge stack that he doesn't
> > care if he loses.
> >
> > It's important to do this while you still have enough chips
> > to threaten anyone. 6500 is already very close to being
> > so low that someone with say 15000 chips will call you
> > with ATC because of good pot odds.
> >
> > So, end result is that most of the time everyone folds
> > and you increase your stack by 2000 (meaning you're
> > in an even better position to jam on future hands),
> > occasionally you get called, but even then you're
> > still at least 35% to win the hand, if not more.
> >
> > Folding is horrible, you'll have your stack crippled by
> > the blinds and then you will be totally at the mercy
> > of the cards. The plan is to at least keep your stack
> > at the level where you can get people to fold, or even
> > if you get called and win, you're back to being able to
> > play proper poker again..
> >
> > Getting so short that you are at the mercy of the cards,
> > is a cardinal sin.
> >
> > I'd actually be jamming any paint from here, it doesn't
> > really matter what you have, what matters is that
> > you're unlikely to be called; Q7o for example will fare
> > just about as well as A3s if you are called.
>
> You'll get calls from MUCH worse than A8 even on the bubble. MUCH, MUCH
> worse.

And wouldnt you want to ?? isnt that the idea?


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 12 Jan 2009 21:20:58
From: Jason Pawloski
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
I push with Ax UTG in virtually every circumstance (the times I don't are
satellite or 2x or nothing tournaments where it'd be foolish to do so).
The reason is there's some chips in the pot that I'd like to win, and even
if I get called by a better hand I probably have at least one live card
which more often than not is good enough to take down the pot.

On Jan 12 2009 9:10 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
>
> Multi table SNG..final table
>
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
>
> I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> this spot
>
> If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
> to do .
>
> If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
>
> if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
>
> If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playing
> any ace really hard back at you.
>
> I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
> clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
>
> PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
>
> Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pair
> they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
>
> Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> something !!
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire


--
"Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

________________________________________________________________________
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Date: 12 Jan 2009 21:25:15
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 12 2009 11:20 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:

> I push with Ax UTG in virtually every circumstance (the times I don't are
> satellite or 2x or nothing tournaments where it'd be foolish to do so).
> The reason is there's some chips in the pot that I'd like to win, and even
> if I get called by a better hand I probably have at least one live card
> which more often than not is good enough to take down the pot.

CRAFTY.. I will await your post on how to re-fund your account !!

THIS HAS TO BE THE WORST STRATEGY POSSIBLE
>
> On Jan 12 2009 9:10 PM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
> >
> > Multi table SNG..final table
> >
> > lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
> >
> > You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG
> >
> > I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> > this spot
> >
> > If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
> > to do .
> >
> > If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
> >
> > if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
> >
> > If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playing
> > any ace really hard back at you.
> >
> > I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
> > clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
> >
> > PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
> >
> > Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pair
> > they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
> >
> > Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> > something !!
> >
> >
> > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> > Voltaire
>
>
> --
> "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
> Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

_______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




   
Date: 12 Jan 2009 21:27:33
From: Jason Pawloski
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 12 2009 10:25 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Jan 12 2009 11:20 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:
>
> > I push with Ax UTG in virtually every circumstance (the times I don't are
> > satellite or 2x or nothing tournaments where it'd be foolish to do so).
> > The reason is there's some chips in the pot that I'd like to win, and even
> > if I get called by a better hand I probably have at least one live card
> > which more often than not is good enough to take down the pot.
>
> CRAFTY.. I will await your post on how to re-fund your account !!
>
> THIS HAS TO BE THE WORST STRATEGY POSSIBLE

Ahahahahaha... thanks for the laughs. By the way, are we making the
Ivey/Durrrr bet or not? Remember, you pick your horse and I get 2 to 1.

--
"Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

_______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 12 Jan 2009 20:35:29
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 12 2009 10:10 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
>
> Multi table SNG..final table
>
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> You have A5 ..A4 or A3 suited UTG

If you're really serious about this, my answer is maybe, maybe jam A5s 6
handed with blinds 400/800. That has a lot to do with the other players
and what I think their calling ranges are. The rest I'd fold.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"You...are just as funny...as Popinjay is" --Will in New Haven

-----
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Date: 12 Jan 2009 20:35:43
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
Don't know if you're trolling, but a person would have to put a gun to
my head and show me it's loaded before I played than hand UTG.





On Jan 12, 8:10=EF=BF=BDpm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
>
> Multi table SNG..final table
>
> lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> You have A5 ..A4 =EF=BF=BDor =EF=BF=BDA3 suited UTG
>
> I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> this spot
>
> If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
> to do .
>
> If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
>
> if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
>
> If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playin=
g
> any ace really hard back at you.
>
> I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
> clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
>
> PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
>
> Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pai=
r
> they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
>
> Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> something !!
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities=
.
> Voltaire
>
> ____________________________________________________________________=EF=
=BF=BD
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 12 Jan 2009 22:08:38
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
The reason you don't is the following. If you're called or raised,
it's odds on you have the worst hand. Even if you win, you still have
to go through the blinds. Better to take your chances in the blinds,
for if you win, you still have a decent chance. Besides, I posted
about this before. Most players get too impatient and make their moves
UTG instead of waiting to go through the blinds. 90% plus of short
stacked openers UTG in tourneys have weak hands and most decent
players know this. It's basically a bluff, for it's almost a coin toss
against two cards higher than a 5 and a big dog against anything
decent. Better to take your chances in the BB where people won't try
bluffing you, as most will just assume you're going to call. The major
weakness of players games is playing hands like this, unless on the
button or in the blinds.

What I really like is Mo-rons like the musician MO-phy the musician
giving poker advice. Perhaps I should start giving music lessons. I
have a favorite note, DOUGH, others may spell it diffferently:).





On Jan 12, 8:59=EF=BF=BDpm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jan 12 2009 10:35 PM, RussGeorg...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Don't know if you're trolling, but a person would have to put a gun to
> > my head and show me it's loaded before I played than hand UTG.
>
> No troll !! =EF=BF=BDI tend to agree with you but the blinds go up quickl=
y and it
> might be the best thing you see till you are short stacked . the people
> than win these things dont play just AK or better . IMO , you have to
> gamble , and you have to do it RIGHT, and just the right times
>
> if I were the high stack with so 20k or the like . I wouldnt dream of
> playing it up front
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 12, 8:10=EF=BF=BDpm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrot=
e:
> > > THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
>
> > > Multi table SNG..final table
>
> > > lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
>
> > > You have A5 ..A4 =EF=BF=BDor =EF=BF=BDA3 suited UTG
>
> > > I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand=
in
> > > this spot
>
> > > If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide w=
hat
> > > to do .
>
> > > If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
>
> > > if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
>
> > > If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone pl=
aying
> > > any ace really hard back at you.
>
> > > I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont se=
e a
> > > clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
>
> > > PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
>
> > > Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket=
pair
> > > they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
>
> > > Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> > > something !!
>
> > > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atroci=
ties..
> > > Voltaire
>
> > > ____________________________________________________________________=
=EF=BF=BD
> > > : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities=
.
> Voltaire
>
> ____________________________________________________________________=EF=
=BF=BD
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com- Hide =
quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



   
Date: 15 Jan 2009 13:55:44
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 13 2009 12:08 AM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> What I really like is Mo-rons like the musician MO-phy the musician
> giving poker advice. Perhaps I should start giving music lessons. I
> have a favorite note, DOUGH, others may spell it diffferently:).

If you're looking for something new to learn, I'd start with the one
called CLUE.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"You...are just as funny...as Popinjay is" --Will in New Haven

--------
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Date: 15 Jan 2009 13:44:20
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 13 2009 12:08 AM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

>
> What I really like is Mo-rons like the musician MO-phy the musician
> giving poker advice. Perhaps I should start giving music lessons. I
> have a favorite note, DOUGH, others may spell it diffferently:).

I spell it CASH. LMFAO!

______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 12 Jan 2009 20:59:48
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: A5 suited UTG ..serious question here!!
On Jan 12 2009 10:35 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> Don't know if you're trolling, but a person would have to put a gun to
> my head and show me it's loaded before I played than hand UTG.

No troll !! I tend to agree with you but the blinds go up quickly and it
might be the best thing you see till you are short stacked . the people
than win these things dont play just AK or better . IMO , you have to
gamble , and you have to do it RIGHT, and just the right times

if I were the high stack with so 20k or the like . I wouldnt dream of
playing it up front
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 12, 8:10�pm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > THIS INVARIABLY COMES UP QUITE OFTEN
> >
> > Multi table SNG..final table
> >
> > lets say 6500 in chips ..400-800 or 300-600 blinds ..say 6-7-8 handed
> >
> > You have A5 ..A4 �or �A3 suited UTG
> >
> > I have to admit . I honestly dont know the best way to play this hand in
> > this spot
> >
> > If you limp .. someone invariably shoves and you are left to decide what
> > to do .
> >
> > If you shove .. some moron with A8 off calls you and you are fucked
> >
> > if you make it 2400 , and get reraised .. you got problems
> >
> > If you min raise coming in you appear so weak as to entice someone playing
> > any ace really hard back at you.
> >
> > I ADMIT IT .. I have tried several different approaches and i dont see a
> > clear best way to play this hand in this spot !!
> >
> > PATTI BEADLES .. I AM MOST INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO HERE!!
> >
> > Now mind you .. you are playing with morons who shove on every pocket pair
> > they have , and any bigger ACE will shove as well.
> >
> > Flame away .. have your fun , but I am asking this to try to learn
> > something !!
> >
> > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..
> > Voltaire
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________�
> > : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

____________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com