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Date: 19 Dec 2008 21:03:04
From: Martin D
Subject: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?


"BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gunmen broke into the house of a women's
rights activist in the volatile northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk on
Thursday and beheaded her, police said. The victim was identified as
Nahla Hussain, the leader of the women's league of the Kurdish
Communist Party. She was alone in the house at the time of her death.

It is not known what the circumstances were that led
to the attack. Violence against women has been an
ongoing problem in Iraq."

http://cnn.mlogic.mobi/cnn/ne/middle_east/detail/215122;jsessionid=5DEBDCCAF8479CB1EE3B50E95EC2309D.live23ib




 
Date: 21 Dec 2008 11:03:46
From: Martin D
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
> Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned" either
> way. Hee, hee. Ho, ho. Ha, ha. Har, har. Snort, snort. Burb.

Pwned? Moi?

http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
> If we scroll down, the more observant will notice that the decorators seem to have an
> abiding preference for the colors red, beige, & white hanging behind their conference
> tables. And the really really really observant will notice the first photo at the top where > they have no colored banner at all. Ah Haaaaa! Just try refuting that!
>

Well, there you. You got me.





  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:07:11
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 21 2008 12:03 PM, Martin D wrote:

> > Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned" either
> > way. Hee, hee. Ho, ho. Ha, ha. Har, har. Snort, snort. Burb.
>
> Pwned? Moi?
>
> http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
> > If we scroll down, the more observant will notice that the decorators seem
to have an
> > abiding preference for the colors red, beige, & white hanging behind their
conference
> > tables. And the really really really observant will notice the first photo
at the top where > they
> have no colored banner at all. Ah Haaaaa! Just try refuting that!
> >
>
> Well, there you. You got me.

Get over it. They're the Iraqi Communist Party. That's your information
source. They live in the "green zone" with all the other collaborators.

_____________________________________________________________________ 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 21 Dec 2008 10:04:58
From: Martin D
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?



> So how many votes did Nader actually get? Personally,
> I cast a write-in for Ron Paul. If you would be so kind as to > find out how many votes both of them ended up with,
> I would be most appreciative.

I'm not sure, but it's gotta be well over a thousand.


  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 12:35:00
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:04:58 -0800 (PST), Martin D
<MartinD_01@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
>
>
>> So how many votes did Nader actually get? Personally,
>> I cast a write-in for Ron Paul. If you would be so kind as to > find out how many votes both of them ended up with,
>> I would be most appreciative.
>
>I'm not sure, but it's gotta be well over a thousand.

According to another RGP poster, Patrick Karl, Nader got 736,804
votes.

Not too significant in the overall vote totals, but still a vote for
None of the Above.

No word on the vote totals for my write-in candidate Ron Paul, but my
SWAG is that his vote totals didn't even approach the number of Nader
voters.

Quite the irony, considering the large number of votes RP got in the
Internet polls during the primary battles.

One would think that at least some of them would have cast a write-in
vote for him.

But Nevermind.
I still have my bumper sticker.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't blame me -- I voted for Ron Paul"


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 15:20:17
From: BillB
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"Martin D" <MartinD_01@hotmail.com > wrote in message

> Guess where?


Sounds like somewhere in the Middle East. Now, if instead the facts were
about some Budweiser soaked idiot who beat up his wife one too many times,
and she died in a coma in intensive care, then I'd have to go with redneck
America. Do I win anything?




  
Date: 21 Dec 2008 09:35:06
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:20:17 -0800, "BillB" <bogus@shaw1.ca > wrote:

>
>"Martin D" <MartinD_01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> Guess where?
>
>
>Sounds like somewhere in the Middle East. Now, if instead the facts were
>about some Budweiser soaked idiot who beat up his wife one too many times,
>and she died in a coma in intensive care, then I'd have to go with redneck
>America. Do I win anything?
>

It sounds like you think wife beatings in America are confined to
"rednecks"

A perfect display of ignorance and bigotry.


   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 12:21:35
From: BillB
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com > wrote in message
news:fbosk4diimfd141hdsj5ghpou954ikqqo3@4ax.com...

> It sounds like you think wife beatings in America are confined to
> "rednecks"
>
> A perfect display of ignorance and bigotry.

Your reading comprehension really isn't what it should be.




   
Date: 21 Dec 2008 10:58:58
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com > wrote in message
news:fbosk4diimfd141hdsj5ghpou954ikqqo3@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:20:17 -0800, "BillB" <bogus@shaw1.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Martin D" <MartinD_01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> Guess where?
>>
>>
>>Sounds like somewhere in the Middle East. Now, if instead the facts were
>>about some Budweiser soaked idiot who beat up his wife one too many times,
>>and she died in a coma in intensive care, then I'd have to go with redneck
>>America. Do I win anything?
>>
>
> It sounds like you think wife beatings in America are confined to
> "rednecks"
>
> A perfect display of ignorance and bigotry.

And that surprises you because? Come on bucko, this is BillB we're talking
about here.
He doesn't know any other kind of post.

Irish Mike




    
Date: 21 Dec 2008 12:42:28
From: BillB
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"Irish Mike" <mjostar@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:_Gt3l.10005$Ei5.3713@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...

> He doesn't know any other kind of post.

If you are talking about posts mocking the hypocrisy of right-wing morons,
then no, that's not true. Only half my posts are like that.




 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 13:35:46
From: funky cold medina
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20, 1:25=A0pm, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@ameritech.net > wrote:
> "funky cold medina" <kellywon...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:b22b0c67=
-61c2-48f2-b1e5-8df880148e00@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 20, 9:44 am, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@ameritech.net> wrote:

>
> Have we produced a better alternative than Saddam in that region?
> Even from a purely selfish standpoint looking out for our own
> interest... are things better? =A0Did we strike a major blow in the war
> on terrorism?
>
> Foreign policy needs to be a little fucking smarter than it was under
> Bush. =A0And I'll admit, I have a very visceral dislike for the man... I
> still have two friends stationed in Baghdad and the shit they wrote me
> in the past just feeds the fire."
>
> Thank you funky - right on schedule. =A0The OP should note, for future RG=
P
> posts, that when the lunatic liberal left leaps in to blame America, and
> President Bush, the length of their "bash-America-and-Bush" post often
> exceeds the length of your entire original post.
>
> Irish Mike

You're welcome.

Thank you for demonstrating your incapacity to take responsibility and
show aptitude for self-criticism.

Lets go ahead and get the next invasion started, fuck the pussy-ass
naysayers. Who's the lucky target this week?


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 12:59:46
From: funky cold medina
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20, 9:44=A0am, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@ameritech.net > wrote:
> "gtech1" <duanepritch...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:2qgv16xamg.ln2@recgroups.com...
>
>
>
> >www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>
> >www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>
> > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were =
not
> > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheade=
d
> > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>
> Well I can see you don't quite have the hang of posting on RGP, so let me
> help you out. =A0It's OK if you post an example of the brutal violence an=
d
> attrocities muslims commit against women but you have to add some thing t=
hat
> blames it on America, in general, and George Bush in particular. =A0See, =
you
> provided the example but you left out the part blaming it on America and
> President Bush. =A0But not to worry, one of the many members of the lunat=
ic
> liberal left who post on RGP will quickly chime in and do it for you.
>
> Irish Mike

Dubya isn't responsible for atrocities by extremists in the new and
improved Iraq. But, his blatant stupidity was a contributing factor
in creating an environment there where the extremist elements would
thrive and flourish, rather than diminish.

And thrive they did.

Patreus, gratefully, turned out to have a brain and was able to work
intelligently with the complex ethnic/religious rivalries in the area
rather than pretending they weren't there. It has gotten better.

Should've never been there in the first place though. Whether some
sort of equilibrium that isn't totally fucked gets worked out... we
shall see.

Yeah, Saddam was fucking evil trash. And a lot of people here have
legitimately posted that this didn't seem to pre-occupy the
conservative consciousness when Reagan was cutting deals and shipping
arms to him.

Have we produced a better alternative than Saddam in that region?
Even from a purely selfish standpoint looking out for our own
interest... are things better? Did we strike a major blow in the war
on terrorism?

Foreign policy needs to be a little fucking smarter than it was under
Bush. And I'll admit, I have a very visceral dislike for the man... I
still have two friends stationed in Baghdad and the shit they wrote me
in the past just feeds the fire.



  
Date: 20 Dec 2008 16:25:42
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"funky cold medina" <kellywong74@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:b22b0c67-61c2-48f2-b1e5-8df880148e00@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 20, 9:44 am, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@ameritech.net > wrote:
> "gtech1" <duanepritch...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:2qgv16xamg.ln2@recgroups.com...
>
>
>
> >www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>
> >www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>
> > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were
> > not
> > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>
> Well I can see you don't quite have the hang of posting on RGP, so let me
> help you out. It's OK if you post an example of the brutal violence and
> attrocities muslims commit against women but you have to add some thing
> that
> blames it on America, in general, and George Bush in particular. See, you
> provided the example but you left out the part blaming it on America and
> President Bush. But not to worry, one of the many members of the lunatic
> liberal left who post on RGP will quickly chime in and do it for you.
>
> Irish Mike

Dubya isn't responsible for atrocities by extremists in the new and
improved Iraq. But, his blatant stupidity was a contributing factor
in creating an environment there where the extremist elements would
thrive and flourish, rather than diminish.

And thrive they did.

Patreus, gratefully, turned out to have a brain and was able to work
intelligently with the complex ethnic/religious rivalries in the area
rather than pretending they weren't there. It has gotten better.

Should've never been there in the first place though. Whether some
sort of equilibrium that isn't totally fucked gets worked out... we
shall see.

Yeah, Saddam was fucking evil trash. And a lot of people here have
legitimately posted that this didn't seem to pre-occupy the
conservative consciousness when Reagan was cutting deals and shipping
arms to him.

Have we produced a better alternative than Saddam in that region?
Even from a purely selfish standpoint looking out for our own
interest... are things better? Did we strike a major blow in the war
on terrorism?

Foreign policy needs to be a little fucking smarter than it was under
Bush. And I'll admit, I have a very visceral dislike for the man... I
still have two friends stationed in Baghdad and the shit they wrote me
in the past just feeds the fire."


Thank you funky - right on schedule. The OP should note, for future RGP
posts, that when the lunatic liberal left leaps in to blame America, and
President Bush, the length of their "bash-America-and-Bush" post often
exceeds the length of your entire original post.

Irish Mike




   
Date: 20 Dec 2008 18:29:42
From: ChrisRobin
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20 2008 4:25 PM, Irish Mike wrote:

> "funky cold medina" <kellywong74@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b22b0c67-61c2-48f2-b1e5-8df880148e00@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 20, 9:44 am, "Irish Mike" <mjos...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> > "gtech1" <duanepritch...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >
> > news:2qgv16xamg.ln2@recgroups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > >www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
> >
> > >www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
> >
> > > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were
> > > not
> > > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> > > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
> >
> > Well I can see you don't quite have the hang of posting on RGP, so let me
> > help you out. It's OK if you post an example of the brutal violence and
> > attrocities muslims commit against women but you have to add some thing
> > that
> > blames it on America, in general, and George Bush in particular. See, you
> > provided the example but you left out the part blaming it on America and
> > President Bush. But not to worry, one of the many members of the lunatic
> > liberal left who post on RGP will quickly chime in and do it for you.
> >
> > Irish Mike
>
> Dubya isn't responsible for atrocities by extremists in the new and
> improved Iraq. But, his blatant stupidity was a contributing factor
> in creating an environment there where the extremist elements would
> thrive and flourish, rather than diminish.
>
> And thrive they did.
>
> Patreus, gratefully, turned out to have a brain and was able to work
> intelligently with the complex ethnic/religious rivalries in the area
> rather than pretending they weren't there. It has gotten better.
>
> Should've never been there in the first place though. Whether some
> sort of equilibrium that isn't totally fucked gets worked out... we
> shall see.
>
> Yeah, Saddam was fucking evil trash. And a lot of people here have
> legitimately posted that this didn't seem to pre-occupy the
> conservative consciousness when Reagan was cutting deals and shipping
> arms to him.
>
> Have we produced a better alternative than Saddam in that region?
> Even from a purely selfish standpoint looking out for our own
> interest... are things better? Did we strike a major blow in the war
> on terrorism?
>
> Foreign policy needs to be a little fucking smarter than it was under
> Bush. And I'll admit, I have a very visceral dislike for the man... I
> still have two friends stationed in Baghdad and the shit they wrote me
> in the past just feeds the fire."
>
>
> Thank you funky - right on schedule. The OP should note, for future RGP
> posts, that when the lunatic liberal left leaps in to blame America, and
> President Bush, the length of their "bash-America-and-Bush" post often
> exceeds the length of your entire original post.

Perhaps you could point out which part(s) of his post is/are factually
incorrect?

______________________________________________________________________ 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 12:24:23
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
As she was a commie, stand by for Popinjay to rate this a "good news/
bad news" story...


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 11:52:55
From: Martin D
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

> You right wing Nazi shits...

Silly Troll, you've rushed to judgement (just like I'm sure you
believe the City of Los Angeles did against O.J.). I'm not a right-
wing-nazi shit (although my being a "shit" is debatable). I'm a
registered democrat who voted for Ralph Nader.


  
Date: 20 Dec 2008 14:21:25
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:52:55 -0800 (PST), Martin D
<MartinD_01@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
>> You right wing Nazi shits...
>
>Silly Troll, you've rushed to judgement (just like I'm sure you
>believe the City of Los Angeles did against O.J.). I'm not a right-
>wing-nazi shit (although my being a "shit" is debatable). I'm a
>registered democrat who voted for Ralph Nader.

So how many votes did Nader actually get?

Personally, I cast a write-in for Ron Paul.
I am not a registered anything.

If you would be so kind as to find out how many votes both of them
ended up with, I would be most appreciative.


   
Date: 20 Dec 2008 14:56:35
From: Patrick Karl
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
FL Turbo wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:52:55 -0800 (PST), Martin D
> <MartinD_01@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> You right wing Nazi shits...
>> Silly Troll, you've rushed to judgement (just like I'm sure you
>> believe the City of Los Angeles did against O.J.). I'm not a right-
>> wing-nazi shit (although my being a "shit" is debatable). I'm a
>> registered democrat who voted for Ralph Nader.
>
> So how many votes did Nader actually get?
>
> Personally, I cast a write-in for Ron Paul.
> I am not a registered anything.
>
> If you would be so kind as to find out how many votes both of them
> ended up with, I would be most appreciative.

Since Ron Paul wasn't a candidate in the general election, I doubt you
will be able to find out how many votes he got.

Nader got 736,804 votes.


    
Date: 20 Dec 2008 15:24:45
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:56:35 -0600, Patrick Karl <jpkarl@gmail.com >
wrote:

>FL Turbo wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:52:55 -0800 (PST), Martin D
>> <MartinD_01@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> You right wing Nazi shits...
>>> Silly Troll, you've rushed to judgement (just like I'm sure you
>>> believe the City of Los Angeles did against O.J.). I'm not a right-
>>> wing-nazi shit (although my being a "shit" is debatable). I'm a
>>> registered democrat who voted for Ralph Nader.
>>
>> So how many votes did Nader actually get?
>>
>> Personally, I cast a write-in for Ron Paul.
>> I am not a registered anything.
>>
>> If you would be so kind as to find out how many votes both of them
>> ended up with, I would be most appreciative.
>
>Since Ron Paul wasn't a candidate in the general election, I doubt you
>will be able to find out how many votes he got.
>
>Nader got 736,804 votes.

Dammitall.
I should have voted for Nader.

But NeverMind.
I can still use my bumper sticker.

------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't blame me -- I voted for Ron Paul"


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 13:20:30
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:03:04 -0800 (PST), Martin D
<MartinD_01@hotmail.com > wrote:

You right wing Nazi shits don't need to go to such extremes to display
your extreme jealousy that Islamist turds do in their countries what
you scum WISH you could do here.


 
Date: 20 Dec 2008 03:12:51
From: Martin D
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

> Those beheaders must be very thankful that "we" liberated
> them from Saddam Hussein.

Yes, "we" are responsible for how brutally women are being treated
there now. Certainly everbody is aware of how wonderfully Iraqi women
were being treated before Saddam was taken out. Now, sadly, Iraqi
women can only reminisce about The Good Ol' Days when the only women
being beheaded were prostitutes by units of "Fedayeen Saddam."




  
Date: 20 Dec 2008 06:28:05
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20 2008 4:12 AM, Martin D wrote:

> > Those beheaders must be very thankful that "we" liberated
> > them from Saddam Hussein.
>
> Yes, "we" are responsible for how brutally women are being treated
> there now. Certainly everbody is aware of how wonderfully Iraqi women
> were being treated before Saddam was taken out. Now, sadly, Iraqi
> women can only reminisce about The Good Ol' Days when the only women
> being beheaded were prostitutes by units of "Fedayeen Saddam."

Can you show any evidence that anyone was beheaded in Iraq in the five
years before we invaded that country?

---- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




   
Date: 20 Dec 2008 07:49:54
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm

www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm

Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

On Dec 20 2008 9:28 AM, risky biz wrote:

> On Dec 20 2008 4:12 AM, Martin D wrote:
>
> > > Those beheaders must be very thankful that "we" liberated
> > > them from Saddam Hussein.
> >
> > Yes, "we" are responsible for how brutally women are being treated
> > there now. Certainly everbody is aware of how wonderfully Iraqi women
> > were being treated before Saddam was taken out. Now, sadly, Iraqi
> > women can only reminisce about The Good Ol' Days when the only women
> > being beheaded were prostitutes by units of "Fedayeen Saddam."
>
> Can you show any evidence that anyone was beheaded in Iraq in the five
> years before we invaded that country?

_______________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




    
Date: 21 Dec 2008 08:20:11
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20 2008 8:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:

> www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>
> www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>
> Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
> engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned" either
way. Hee, hee.

The Iraqi Women's League? Here's their website:
http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
If we scroll down the more observant will notice that they seem to have an
abiding preference for the color red hanging behind their conference
tables. Is that Amnesty International's source on beheadings of women in
Iraq? A political organization which wanted an American invasion of Iraq
as a means of advancing it's power ambitions?

Where are the "people shredders"?

"The shredding machine was first mentioned in public by James Mahon, then
head of research at Indict, at a meeting at the House of Commons on 12
March. Mahon had just returned from northern Iraq, where Indict
researchers, along with Ann Clwyd, interviewed Iraqis who had suffered
under Saddam’s regime. One of them said Iraqis had been fed into a
shredder. ‘Sometimes they were put in feet first and died screaming. It
was horrible. I saw 30 die like this.... On one occasion I saw Qusay
Hussein personally supervising these murders.’ In subsequent interviews
and articles, Clwyd said this shredding machine was in Abu Ghraib prison,
Saddam’s most notorious jail.

What was done to corroborate the Iraqi’s claims? Apparently nothing.
Indict refuses to tell me the names of the researchers who were in Iraq
with Mahon and Clwyd; and, I am told, Mahon, who no longer works at
Indict, ‘does not want to speak to journalists about his work with us’.
But Clwyd tells me: ‘We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we
believed it.’ So nothing was done to check the truth of what the victim
said, against other witness statements or other evidence for a shredding
machine? ‘Well, no,’ says Clwyd. ‘[Indict researchers] didn’t have to do
that; they were just taking witness statements.’

But surely, before going public with so shocking a story, facts ought to
have been checked and double-checked? Clwyd clearly doesn’t think so. ‘We
heard it from someone who had been released from the Abu Ghraib
prison....I heard his account of what went on in the prison. I was there
when [Indict’s] cross-examination of the witness took place, and I am
satisfied from what I heard that shredding was a method of execution. We
knew he wasn’t making it up.’

This is all that Indict had to go on — uncorroborated and quite amazing
claims made by a single person from northern Iraq. When I suggest that
this does not constitute proof of the existence of a human shredder, Clwyd
responds: ‘We heard a victim say it; who are you to say that chap is a
liar?’

However, one other person who talked about a shredder was Kenneth Joseph,
an American who claimed to have visited Iraq as an antiwar human shield
before concluding that he was wrong and the war was right. Joseph’s
Damascene conversion was first reported by United Press International
(UPI) on 21 March.

When Carol Lipton, an American journalist, investigated his story in April
for CounterPunch, she reported that ‘none of the human shield groups whom
I contacted had ever heard of Joseph’. She also noted that ‘incredibly,
nowhere has a single photo or segment from [Joseph’s] 14 hours of
interviews been published’. These discrepancies led some to speculate
whether the Reverend Sun Myung Moon played a part in ‘the Joseph story’.
Moon, head of the Unification Church (Moonies), owns UPI. Private Eye
suggested that Joseph’s story was ‘a propaganda fabrication by
right-wingers associated with the Revd Moon’s Unification Church’. Even
Johann Hari, a pro-war columnist on the Independent who wrote a
sycophantic account of Joseph’s conversion, has since declared that Joseph
‘was probably a bullshitter’.

Clwyd insists that corroboration of the shredder story came three months
after her first Times article, when she was shown a dossier by a reporter
from Fox TV. On 18 June, Clwyd wrote a second article for the Times,
describing a ‘chillingly meticulous record book’ from Saddam’s notorious
Abu Ghraib prison, which described one of the methods of execution as
‘mincing’. Can she say who compiled this book? ‘No, I can’t.’ Where is it
now? ‘I don’t know.’ What was the name of the Fox reporter who showed it
to her? ‘I have no idea.’ Did Clwyd read the entire thing? ‘No! It was in
Arabic! I only saw it briefly.’ Curiously, there is no mention of the book
or of ‘mincing’ as a method of execution on the Fox News website. Robert
Zimmerman, a spokesman for Fox News in New York, tells me: ‘That story
does not ring a bell with our foreign editor here, and it is something you
expect would ring a bell. It sounds like something we would have gone to
town with, in terms of promotion and PR.’

And there you have the long and short of the available evidence for a
human-shredding machine — an uncorroborated statement made by an
individual in northern Iraq, hearsay comments made by someone widely
suspected of being a ‘bullshitter’ (who, like the Australian Prime
Minister, made his comments about the shredder shortly after Clwyd first
wrote of it in the Times), and a record book, in Arabic, that mentions
‘mincing’ but whose whereabouts are presently unknown.

It remains to be seen whether this uncorroborated story turns out to be
nothing more than war propaganda — like the stories on the eve of the
first Gulf war of Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait taking babies from incubators
and leaving them to die on hospital floors. What can be said, however, is
that the alleged shredder provided those in favour of the war — by no
means an overwhelming majority in Britain last March — with a useful
propaganda tool. The headline on Ann Clwyd’s 18 March story in the Times
was: ‘See men shredded, then say you don’t back war’.
http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec36.html

_____________________________________________________________________ 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




     
Date: 21 Dec 2008 10:59:22
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
Did you see the semi-colon after the Amnesty International cite?

On Dec 21 2008 11:20 AM, risky biz wrote:

> On Dec 20 2008 8:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:
>
> > www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
> >
> > www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
> >
> > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
> > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>
> Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned" either
> way. Hee, hee.
>
> The Iraqi Women's League? Here's their website:
> http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
> If we scroll down the more observant will notice that they seem to have an
> abiding preference for the color red hanging behind their conference
> tables. Is that Amnesty International's source on beheadings of women in
> Iraq? A political organization which wanted an American invasion of Iraq
> as a means of advancing it's power ambitions?
>
> Where are the "people shredders"?
>
> "The shredding machine was first mentioned in public by James Mahon, then
> head of research at Indict, at a meeting at the House of Commons on 12
> March. Mahon had just returned from northern Iraq, where Indict
> researchers, along with Ann Clwyd, interviewed Iraqis who had suffered
> under Saddam’s regime. One of them said Iraqis had been fed into a
> shredder. ‘Sometimes they were put in feet first and died screaming. It
> was horrible. I saw 30 die like this.... On one occasion I saw Qusay
> Hussein personally supervising these murders.’ In subsequent interviews
> and articles, Clwyd said this shredding machine was in Abu Ghraib prison,
> Saddam’s most notorious jail.
>
> What was done to corroborate the Iraqi’s claims? Apparently nothing.
> Indict refuses to tell me the names of the researchers who were in Iraq
> with Mahon and Clwyd; and, I am told, Mahon, who no longer works at
> Indict, ‘does not want to speak to journalists about his work with us’.
> But Clwyd tells me: ‘We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we
> believed it.’ So nothing was done to check the truth of what the victim
> said, against other witness statements or other evidence for a shredding
> machine? ‘Well, no,’ says Clwyd. ‘[Indict researchers] didn’t have to do
> that; they were just taking witness statements.’
>
> But surely, before going public with so shocking a story, facts ought to
> have been checked and double-checked? Clwyd clearly doesn’t think so. ‘We
> heard it from someone who had been released from the Abu Ghraib
> prison....I heard his account of what went on in the prison. I was there
> when [Indict’s] cross-examination of the witness took place, and I am
> satisfied from what I heard that shredding was a method of execution. We
> knew he wasn’t making it up.’
>
> This is all that Indict had to go on — uncorroborated and quite amazing
> claims made by a single person from northern Iraq. When I suggest that
> this does not constitute proof of the existence of a human shredder, Clwyd
> responds: ‘We heard a victim say it; who are you to say that chap is a
> liar?’
>
> However, one other person who talked about a shredder was Kenneth Joseph,
> an American who claimed to have visited Iraq as an antiwar human shield
> before concluding that he was wrong and the war was right. Joseph’s
> Damascene conversion was first reported by United Press International
> (UPI) on 21 March.
>
> When Carol Lipton, an American journalist, investigated his story in April
> for CounterPunch, she reported that ‘none of the human shield groups whom
> I contacted had ever heard of Joseph’. She also noted that ‘incredibly,
> nowhere has a single photo or segment from [Joseph’s] 14 hours of
> interviews been published’. These discrepancies led some to speculate
> whether the Reverend Sun Myung Moon played a part in ‘the Joseph story’.
> Moon, head of the Unification Church (Moonies), owns UPI. Private Eye
> suggested that Joseph’s story was ‘a propaganda fabrication by
> right-wingers associated with the Revd Moon’s Unification Church’. Even
> Johann Hari, a pro-war columnist on the Independent who wrote a
> sycophantic account of Joseph’s conversion, has since declared that Joseph
> ‘was probably a bullshitter’.
>
> Clwyd insists that corroboration of the shredder story came three months
> after her first Times article, when she was shown a dossier by a reporter
> from Fox TV. On 18 June, Clwyd wrote a second article for the Times,
> describing a ‘chillingly meticulous record book’ from Saddam’s notorious
> Abu Ghraib prison, which described one of the methods of execution as
> ‘mincing’. Can she say who compiled this book? ‘No, I can’t.’ Where is it
> now? ‘I don’t know.’ What was the name of the Fox reporter who showed it
> to her? ‘I have no idea.’ Did Clwyd read the entire thing? ‘No! It was in
> Arabic! I only saw it briefly.’ Curiously, there is no mention of the book
> or of ‘mincing’ as a method of execution on the Fox News website. Robert
> Zimmerman, a spokesman for Fox News in New York, tells me: ‘That story
> does not ring a bell with our foreign editor here, and it is something you
> expect would ring a bell. It sounds like something we would have gone to
> town with, in terms of promotion and PR.’
>
> And there you have the long and short of the available evidence for a
> human-shredding machine — an uncorroborated statement made by an
> individual in northern Iraq, hearsay comments made by someone widely
> suspected of being a ‘bullshitter’ (who, like the Australian Prime
> Minister, made his comments about the shredder shortly after Clwyd first
> wrote of it in the Times), and a record book, in Arabic, that mentions
> ‘mincing’ but whose whereabouts are presently unknown.
>
> It remains to be seen whether this uncorroborated story turns out to be
> nothing more than war propaganda — like the stories on the eve of the
> first Gulf war of Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait taking babies from incubators
> and leaving them to die on hospital floors. What can be said, however, is
> that the alleged shredder provided those in favour of the war — by no
> means an overwhelming majority in Britain last March — with a useful
> propaganda tool. The headline on Ann Clwyd’s 18 March story in the Times
> was: ‘See men shredded, then say you don’t back war’.
> http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec36.html

_______________________________________________________________________ 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



      
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:00:48
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 21 2008 11:59 AM, gtech1 wrote:

> Did you see the semi-colon after the Amnesty International cite?

Oh, yeah, I did. And I noticed something that wasn't there- Amnesty
International's cite for where they got their information. Hmm- let's see.
Who would have been more than willing to give them "information" like that
in 2001?

Where's the "people shredder"?

>
> On Dec 21 2008 11:20 AM, risky biz wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20 2008 8:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:
> >
> > > www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
> > >
> > > www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
> > >
> > > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were
not
> > > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> > > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
> >
> > Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned" either
> > way. Hee, hee.
> >
> > The Iraqi Women's League? Here's their website:
> > http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
> > If we scroll down the more observant will notice that they seem to have an
> > abiding preference for the color red hanging behind their conference
> > tables. Is that Amnesty International's source on beheadings of women in
> > Iraq? A political organization which wanted an American invasion of Iraq
> > as a means of advancing it's power ambitions?
> >
> > Where are the "people shredders"?
> >
> > "The shredding machine was first mentioned in public by James Mahon, then
> > head of research at Indict, at a meeting at the House of Commons on 12
> > March. Mahon had just returned from northern Iraq, where Indict
> > researchers, along with Ann Clwyd, interviewed Iraqis who had suffered
> > under Saddam’s regime. One of them said Iraqis had been fed into a
> > shredder. ‘Sometimes they were put in feet first and died screaming. It
> > was horrible. I saw 30 die like this.... On one occasion I saw Qusay
> > Hussein personally supervising these murders.’ In subsequent interviews
> > and articles, Clwyd said this shredding machine was in Abu Ghraib prison,
> > Saddam’s most notorious jail.
> >
> > What was done to corroborate the Iraqi’s claims? Apparently nothing.
> > Indict refuses to tell me the names of the researchers who were in Iraq
> > with Mahon and Clwyd; and, I am told, Mahon, who no longer works at
> > Indict, ‘does not want to speak to journalists about his work with us’.
> > But Clwyd tells me: ‘We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we
> > believed it.’ So nothing was done to check the truth of what the victim
> > said, against other witness statements or other evidence for a shredding
> > machine? ‘Well, no,’ says Clwyd. ‘[Indict researchers] didn’t have to do
> > that; they were just taking witness statements.’
> >
> > But surely, before going public with so shocking a story, facts ought to
> > have been checked and double-checked? Clwyd clearly doesn’t think so. ‘We
> > heard it from someone who had been released from the Abu Ghraib
> > prison....I heard his account of what went on in the prison. I was there
> > when [Indict’s] cross-examination of the witness took place, and I am
> > satisfied from what I heard that shredding was a method of execution. We
> > knew he wasn’t making it up.’
> >
> > This is all that Indict had to go on — uncorroborated and quite amazing
> > claims made by a single person from northern Iraq. When I suggest that
> > this does not constitute proof of the existence of a human shredder, Clwyd
> > responds: ‘We heard a victim say it; who are you to say that chap is a
> > liar?’
> >
> > However, one other person who talked about a shredder was Kenneth Joseph,
> > an American who claimed to have visited Iraq as an antiwar human shield
> > before concluding that he was wrong and the war was right. Joseph’s
> > Damascene conversion was first reported by United Press International
> > (UPI) on 21 March.
> >
> > When Carol Lipton, an American journalist, investigated his story in April
> > for CounterPunch, she reported that ‘none of the human shield groups whom
> > I contacted had ever heard of Joseph’. She also noted that ‘incredibly,
> > nowhere has a single photo or segment from [Joseph’s] 14 hours of
> > interviews been published’. These discrepancies led some to speculate
> > whether the Reverend Sun Myung Moon played a part in ‘the Joseph story’.
> > Moon, head of the Unification Church (Moonies), owns UPI. Private Eye
> > suggested that Joseph’s story was ‘a propaganda fabrication by
> > right-wingers associated with the Revd Moon’s Unification Church’. Even
> > Johann Hari, a pro-war columnist on the Independent who wrote a
> > sycophantic account of Joseph’s conversion, has since declared that Joseph
> > ‘was probably a bullshitter’.
> >
> > Clwyd insists that corroboration of the shredder story came three months
> > after her first Times article, when she was shown a dossier by a reporter
> > from Fox TV. On 18 June, Clwyd wrote a second article for the Times,
> > describing a ‘chillingly meticulous record book’ from Saddam’s notorious
> > Abu Ghraib prison, which described one of the methods of execution as
> > ‘mincing’. Can she say who compiled this book? ‘No, I can’t.’ Where is it
> > now? ‘I don’t know.’ What was the name of the Fox reporter who showed it
> > to her? ‘I have no idea.’ Did Clwyd read the entire thing? ‘No! It was in
> > Arabic! I only saw it briefly.’ Curiously, there is no mention of the book
> > or of ‘mincing’ as a method of execution on the Fox News website. Robert
> > Zimmerman, a spokesman for Fox News in New York, tells me: ‘That story
> > does not ring a bell with our foreign editor here, and it is something you
> > expect would ring a bell. It sounds like something we would have gone to
> > town with, in terms of promotion and PR.’
> >
> > And there you have the long and short of the available evidence for a
> > human-shredding machine — an uncorroborated statement made by an
> > individual in northern Iraq, hearsay comments made by someone widely
> > suspected of being a ‘bullshitter’ (who, like the Australian Prime
> > Minister, made his comments about the shredder shortly after Clwyd first
> > wrote of it in the Times), and a record book, in Arabic, that mentions
> > ‘mincing’ but whose whereabouts are presently unknown.
> >
> > It remains to be seen whether this uncorroborated story turns out to be
> > nothing more than war propaganda — like the stories on the eve of the
> > first Gulf war of Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait taking babies from incubators
> > and leaving them to die on hospital floors. What can be said, however, is
> > that the alleged shredder provided those in favour of the war — by no
> > means an overwhelming majority in Britain last March — with a useful
> > propaganda tool. The headline on Ann Clwyd’s 18 March story in the Times
> > was: ‘See men shredded, then say you don’t back war’.
> > http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec36.html

________________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




       
Date: 21 Dec 2008 20:22:33
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
LOL. So you ask for evidence, I give you 2 links, and your response is to
ask for a cite of the cite. Ok.

What about the other link? Any response to that?


On Dec 21 2008 11:00 PM, risky biz wrote:

> On Dec 21 2008 11:59 AM, gtech1 wrote:
>
> > Did you see the semi-colon after the Amnesty International cite?
>
> Oh, yeah, I did. And I noticed something that wasn't there- Amnesty
> International's cite for where they got their information. Hmm- let's see.
> Who would have been more than willing to give them "information" like that
> in 2001?
>
> Where's the "people shredder"?
>
> >
> > On Dec 21 2008 11:20 AM, risky biz wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 20 2008 8:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:
> > >
> > > > www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
> > > >
> > > > www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
> > > >
> > > > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > > > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > > > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > > > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > > > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > > > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > > > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were
> not
> > > > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > > > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was
beheaded
> > > > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > > > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > > > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
> > >
> > > Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned"
either
> > > way. Hee, hee.
> > >
> > > The Iraqi Women's League? Here's their website:
> > > http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
> > > If we scroll down the more observant will notice that they seem to have
an
> > > abiding preference for the color red hanging behind their conference
> > > tables. Is that Amnesty International's source on beheadings of women in
> > > Iraq? A political organization which wanted an American invasion of Iraq
> > > as a means of advancing it's power ambitions?
> > >
> > > Where are the "people shredders"?
> > >
> > > "The shredding machine was first mentioned in public by James Mahon, then
> > > head of research at Indict, at a meeting at the House of Commons on 12
> > > March. Mahon had just returned from northern Iraq, where Indict
> > > researchers, along with Ann Clwyd, interviewed Iraqis who had suffered
> > > under Saddam’s regime. One of them said Iraqis had been fed into a
> > > shredder. ‘Sometimes they were put in feet first and died screaming. It
> > > was horrible. I saw 30 die like this.... On one occasion I saw Qusay
> > > Hussein personally supervising these murders.’ In subsequent interviews
> > > and articles, Clwyd said this shredding machine was in Abu Ghraib prison,
> > > Saddam’s most notorious jail.
> > >
> > > What was done to corroborate the Iraqi’s claims? Apparently nothing.
> > > Indict refuses to tell me the names of the researchers who were in Iraq
> > > with Mahon and Clwyd; and, I am told, Mahon, who no longer works at
> > > Indict, ‘does not want to speak to journalists about his work with us’.
> > > But Clwyd tells me: ‘We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we
> > > believed it.’ So nothing was done to check the truth of what the victim
> > > said, against other witness statements or other evidence for a shredding
> > > machine? ‘Well, no,’ says Clwyd. ‘[Indict researchers] didn’t have to do
> > > that; they were just taking witness statements.’
> > >
> > > But surely, before going public with so shocking a story, facts ought to
> > > have been checked and double-checked? Clwyd clearly doesn’t think so. ‘We
> > > heard it from someone who had been released from the Abu Ghraib
> > > prison....I heard his account of what went on in the prison. I was there
> > > when [Indict’s] cross-examination of the witness took place, and I am
> > > satisfied from what I heard that shredding was a method of execution. We
> > > knew he wasn’t making it up.’
> > >
> > > This is all that Indict had to go on — uncorroborated and quite amazing
> > > claims made by a single person from northern Iraq. When I suggest that
> > > this does not constitute proof of the existence of a human shredder,
Clwyd
> > > responds: ‘We heard a victim say it; who are you to say that chap is a
> > > liar?’
> > >
> > > However, one other person who talked about a shredder was Kenneth Joseph,
> > > an American who claimed to have visited Iraq as an antiwar human shield
> > > before concluding that he was wrong and the war was right. Joseph’s
> > > Damascene conversion was first reported by United Press International
> > > (UPI) on 21 March.
> > >
> > > When Carol Lipton, an American journalist, investigated his story in
April
> > > for CounterPunch, she reported that ‘none of the human shield groups whom
> > > I contacted had ever heard of Joseph’. She also noted that ‘incredibly,
> > > nowhere has a single photo or segment from [Joseph’s] 14 hours of
> > > interviews been published’. These discrepancies led some to speculate
> > > whether the Reverend Sun Myung Moon played a part in ‘the Joseph story’.
> > > Moon, head of the Unification Church (Moonies), owns UPI. Private Eye
> > > suggested that Joseph’s story was ‘a propaganda fabrication by
> > > right-wingers associated with the Revd Moon’s Unification Church’. Even
> > > Johann Hari, a pro-war columnist on the Independent who wrote a
> > > sycophantic account of Joseph’s conversion, has since declared that
Joseph
> > > ‘was probably a bullshitter’.
> > >
> > > Clwyd insists that corroboration of the shredder story came three months
> > > after her first Times article, when she was shown a dossier by a reporter
> > > from Fox TV. On 18 June, Clwyd wrote a second article for the Times,
> > > describing a ‘chillingly meticulous record book’ from Saddam’s notorious
> > > Abu Ghraib prison, which described one of the methods of execution as
> > > ‘mincing’. Can she say who compiled this book? ‘No, I can’t.’ Where is it
> > > now? ‘I don’t know.’ What was the name of the Fox reporter who showed it
> > > to her? ‘I have no idea.’ Did Clwyd read the entire thing? ‘No! It was in
> > > Arabic! I only saw it briefly.’ Curiously, there is no mention of the
book
> > > or of ‘mincing’ as a method of execution on the Fox News website. Robert
> > > Zimmerman, a spokesman for Fox News in New York, tells me: ‘That story
> > > does not ring a bell with our foreign editor here, and it is something
you
> > > expect would ring a bell. It sounds like something we would have gone to
> > > town with, in terms of promotion and PR.’
> > >
> > > And there you have the long and short of the available evidence for a
> > > human-shredding machine — an uncorroborated statement made by an
> > > individual in northern Iraq, hearsay comments made by someone widely
> > > suspected of being a ‘bullshitter’ (who, like the Australian Prime
> > > Minister, made his comments about the shredder shortly after Clwyd first
> > > wrote of it in the Times), and a record book, in Arabic, that mentions
> > > ‘mincing’ but whose whereabouts are presently unknown.
> > >
> > > It remains to be seen whether this uncorroborated story turns out to be
> > > nothing more than war propaganda — like the stories on the eve of the
> > > first Gulf war of Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait taking babies from incubators
> > > and leaving them to die on hospital floors. What can be said, however, is
> > > that the alleged shredder provided those in favour of the war — by no
> > > means an overwhelming majority in Britain last March — with a useful
> > > propaganda tool. The headline on Ann Clwyd’s 18 March story in the Times
> > > was: ‘See men shredded, then say you don’t back war’.
> > > http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec36.html

------- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



        
Date: 22 Dec 2008 00:33:26
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:99h326xm03.ln2@recgroups.com...
> LOL. So you ask for evidence, I give you 2 links, and your response is to
> ask for a cite of the cite. Ok.
>
> What about the other link? Any response to that?

You need to understand that risky biz is like Bob T. and BillB. None of
them has ever had an original thought or read a newspaper or watched a news
show other than Chris "a thrill ran up my leg when I heard Obama speak"
Matthews on MSNBC. They'd need a "cite" to tell them how to wipe their own
asses.

Irish Mike


>
>
> On Dec 21 2008 11:00 PM, risky biz wrote:
>
>> On Dec 21 2008 11:59 AM, gtech1 wrote:
>>
>> > Did you see the semi-colon after the Amnesty International cite?
>>
>> Oh, yeah, I did. And I noticed something that wasn't there- Amnesty
>> International's cite for where they got their information. Hmm- let's
>> see.
>> Who would have been more than willing to give them "information" like
>> that
>> in 2001?
>>
>> Where's the "people shredder"?
>>
>> >
>> > On Dec 21 2008 11:20 AM, risky biz wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Dec 20 2008 8:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>> > > >
>> > > > www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>> > > >
>> > > > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen
>> > > > Saddam,"
>> > > > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest
>> > > > son,
>> > > > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
>> > > > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many
>> > > > families
>> > > > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside
>> > > > fences
>> > > > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
>> > > > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims
>> > > > were
>> not
>> > > > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons.
>> > > > For
>> > > > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was
> beheaded
>> > > > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
>> > > > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political
>> > > > Prisoners,
>> > > > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>> > >
>> > > Silence. You, Martin D, and Raider Fan are the ones who are "pwned"
> either
>> > > way. Hee, hee.
>> > >
>> > > The Iraqi Women's League? Here's their website:
>> > > http://www.iraqiwomensleague.org/
>> > > If we scroll down the more observant will notice that they seem to
>> > > have
> an
>> > > abiding preference for the color red hanging behind their conference
>> > > tables. Is that Amnesty International's source on beheadings of women
>> > > in
>> > > Iraq? A political organization which wanted an American invasion of
>> > > Iraq
>> > > as a means of advancing it's power ambitions?
>> > >
>> > > Where are the "people shredders"?
>> > >
>> > > "The shredding machine was first mentioned in public by James Mahon,
>> > > then
>> > > head of research at Indict, at a meeting at the House of Commons on
>> > > 12
>> > > March. Mahon had just returned from northern Iraq, where Indict
>> > > researchers, along with Ann Clwyd, interviewed Iraqis who had
>> > > suffered
>> > > under Saddam's regime. One of them said Iraqis had been fed into a
>> > > shredder. 'Sometimes they were put in feet first and died screaming.
>> > > It
>> > > was horrible. I saw 30 die like this.... On one occasion I saw Qusay
>> > > Hussein personally supervising these murders.' In subsequent
>> > > interviews
>> > > and articles, Clwyd said this shredding machine was in Abu Ghraib
>> > > prison,
>> > > Saddam's most notorious jail.
>> > >
>> > > What was done to corroborate the Iraqi's claims? Apparently nothing.
>> > > Indict refuses to tell me the names of the researchers who were in
>> > > Iraq
>> > > with Mahon and Clwyd; and, I am told, Mahon, who no longer works at
>> > > Indict, 'does not want to speak to journalists about his work with
>> > > us'.
>> > > But Clwyd tells me: 'We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we
>> > > believed it.' So nothing was done to check the truth of what the
>> > > victim
>> > > said, against other witness statements or other evidence for a
>> > > shredding
>> > > machine? 'Well, no,' says Clwyd. '[Indict researchers] didn't have to
>> > > do
>> > > that; they were just taking witness statements.'
>> > >
>> > > But surely, before going public with so shocking a story, facts ought
>> > > to
>> > > have been checked and double-checked? Clwyd clearly doesn't think so.
>> > > 'We
>> > > heard it from someone who had been released from the Abu Ghraib
>> > > prison....I heard his account of what went on in the prison. I was
>> > > there
>> > > when [Indict's] cross-examination of the witness took place, and I am
>> > > satisfied from what I heard that shredding was a method of execution.
>> > > We
>> > > knew he wasn't making it up.'
>> > >
>> > > This is all that Indict had to go on - uncorroborated and quite
>> > > amazing
>> > > claims made by a single person from northern Iraq. When I suggest
>> > > that
>> > > this does not constitute proof of the existence of a human shredder,
> Clwyd
>> > > responds: 'We heard a victim say it; who are you to say that chap is
>> > > a
>> > > liar?'
>> > >
>> > > However, one other person who talked about a shredder was Kenneth
>> > > Joseph,
>> > > an American who claimed to have visited Iraq as an antiwar human
>> > > shield
>> > > before concluding that he was wrong and the war was right. Joseph's
>> > > Damascene conversion was first reported by United Press International
>> > > (UPI) on 21 March.
>> > >
>> > > When Carol Lipton, an American journalist, investigated his story in
> April
>> > > for CounterPunch, she reported that 'none of the human shield groups
>> > > whom
>> > > I contacted had ever heard of Joseph'. She also noted that
>> > > 'incredibly,
>> > > nowhere has a single photo or segment from [Joseph's] 14 hours of
>> > > interviews been published'. These discrepancies led some to speculate
>> > > whether the Reverend Sun Myung Moon played a part in 'the Joseph
>> > > story'.
>> > > Moon, head of the Unification Church (Moonies), owns UPI. Private Eye
>> > > suggested that Joseph's story was 'a propaganda fabrication by
>> > > right-wingers associated with the Revd Moon's Unification Church'.
>> > > Even
>> > > Johann Hari, a pro-war columnist on the Independent who wrote a
>> > > sycophantic account of Joseph's conversion, has since declared that
> Joseph
>> > > 'was probably a bullshitter'.
>> > >
>> > > Clwyd insists that corroboration of the shredder story came three
>> > > months
>> > > after her first Times article, when she was shown a dossier by a
>> > > reporter
>> > > from Fox TV. On 18 June, Clwyd wrote a second article for the Times,
>> > > describing a 'chillingly meticulous record book' from Saddam's
>> > > notorious
>> > > Abu Ghraib prison, which described one of the methods of execution as
>> > > 'mincing'. Can she say who compiled this book? 'No, I can't.' Where
>> > > is it
>> > > now? 'I don't know.' What was the name of the Fox reporter who showed
>> > > it
>> > > to her? 'I have no idea.' Did Clwyd read the entire thing? 'No! It
>> > > was in
>> > > Arabic! I only saw it briefly.' Curiously, there is no mention of the
> book
>> > > or of 'mincing' as a method of execution on the Fox News website.
>> > > Robert
>> > > Zimmerman, a spokesman for Fox News in New York, tells me: 'That
>> > > story
>> > > does not ring a bell with our foreign editor here, and it is
>> > > something
> you
>> > > expect would ring a bell. It sounds like something we would have gone
>> > > to
>> > > town with, in terms of promotion and PR.'
>> > >
>> > > And there you have the long and short of the available evidence for a
>> > > human-shredding machine - an uncorroborated statement made by an
>> > > individual in northern Iraq, hearsay comments made by someone widely
>> > > suspected of being a 'bullshitter' (who, like the Australian Prime
>> > > Minister, made his comments about the shredder shortly after Clwyd
>> > > first
>> > > wrote of it in the Times), and a record book, in Arabic, that
>> > > mentions
>> > > 'mincing' but whose whereabouts are presently unknown.
>> > >
>> > > It remains to be seen whether this uncorroborated story turns out to
>> > > be
>> > > nothing more than war propaganda - like the stories on the eve of the
>> > > first Gulf war of Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait taking babies from
>> > > incubators
>> > > and leaving them to die on hospital floors. What can be said,
>> > > however, is
>> > > that the alleged shredder provided those in favour of the war - by no
>> > > means an overwhelming majority in Britain last March - with a useful
>> > > propaganda tool. The headline on Ann Clwyd's 18 March story in the
>> > > Times
>> > > was: 'See men shredded, then say you don't back war'.
>> > > http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec36.html
>
> -------
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>




         
Date: 21 Dec 2008 22:05:31
From: ChrisRobin
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 22 2008 12:33 AM, Irish Mike wrote:

> "gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:99h326xm03.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > LOL. So you ask for evidence, I give you 2 links, and your response is to
> > ask for a cite of the cite. Ok.
> >
> > What about the other link? Any response to that?
>
> You need to understand that risky biz is like Bob T. and BillB. None of
> them has ever had an original thought or read a newspaper or watched a news
> show other than Chris "a thrill ran up my leg when I heard Obama speak"
> Matthews on MSNBC. They'd need a "cite" to tell them how to wipe their own
> asses.

Don't be a pud. We know why you hate citing source material – last time
you cited an article to back your ridiculous claims that Saddam had killed
2 million Iraqis, all it proved is your nasty habit of pulling statistics
out of your ass.

______________________________________________________________________ 
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Date: 22 Dec 2008 06:13:15
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think about the two links I posted in
response to Risky Biz's request for "evidence that anyone was beheaded in
Irag in the 5 years before the U.S. invasion?"
On Dec 22 2008 1:05 AM, ChrisRobin wrote:

> On Dec 22 2008 12:33 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
>
> > "gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:99h326xm03.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > LOL. So you ask for evidence, I give you 2 links, and your response is
to
> > > ask for a cite of the cite. Ok.
> > >
> > > What about the other link? Any response to that?
> >
> > You need to understand that risky biz is like Bob T. and BillB. None of
> > them has ever had an original thought or read a newspaper or watched a
news
> > show other than Chris "a thrill ran up my leg when I heard Obama speak"
> > Matthews on MSNBC. They'd need a "cite" to tell them how to wipe their
own
> > asses.
>
> Don't be a pud. We know why you hate citing source material – last time
> you cited an article to back your ridiculous claims that Saddam had killed
> 2 million Iraqis, all it proved is your nasty habit of pulling statistics
> out of your ass.

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Date: 22 Dec 2008 01:44:59
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"ChrisRobin" <a9dbf1e@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:ban326xnm3.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 22 2008 12:33 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
>
>> "gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:99h326xm03.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> > LOL. So you ask for evidence, I give you 2 links, and your response is
>> > to
>> > ask for a cite of the cite. Ok.
>> >
>> > What about the other link? Any response to that?
>>
>> You need to understand that risky biz is like Bob T. and BillB. None of
>> them has ever had an original thought or read a newspaper or watched a
>> news
>> show other than Chris "a thrill ran up my leg when I heard Obama speak"
>> Matthews on MSNBC. They'd need a "cite" to tell them how to wipe their
>> own
>> asses.
>
> Don't be a pud. We know why you hate citing source material - last time
> you cited an article to back your ridiculous claims that Saddam had killed
> 2 million Iraqis, all it proved is your nasty habit of pulling statistics
> out of your ass.

Actually bucko, the "cite" said it was estimated Saddam had killed two
million people, including the Iraq vs Iran war , the chemical weapons used
on the Kurds, and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. It pissed you off then and
it's clear it's still pissing you off now. :)

Irish Mike




    
Date: 20 Dec 2008 12:44:46
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:2qgv16xamg.ln2@recgroups.com...
> www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>
> www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>
> Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
> engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

Well I can see you don't quite have the hang of posting on RGP, so let me
help you out. It's OK if you post an example of the brutal violence and
attrocities muslims commit against women but you have to add some thing that
blames it on America, in general, and George Bush in particular. See, you
provided the example but you left out the part blaming it on America and
President Bush. But not to worry, one of the many members of the lunatic
liberal left who post on RGP will quickly chime in and do it for you.

Irish Mike





     
Date: 20 Dec 2008 13:38:03
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:44:46 -0500, "Irish Mike"
<mjostar@ameritech.net > wrote:

>
>"gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:2qgv16xamg.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>>
>> www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>>
>> Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
>> the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
>> have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
>> dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
>> have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
>> for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
>> absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
>> engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
>> example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
>> after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
>> International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
>> August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>
>Well I can see you don't quite have the hang of posting on RGP, so let me
>help you out. It's OK if you post an example of the brutal violence and
>attrocities muslims commit against women but you have to add some thing that
>blames it on America, in general, and George Bush in particular. See, you
>provided the example but you left out the part blaming it on America and
>President Bush. But not to worry, one of the many members of the lunatic
>liberal left who post on RGP will quickly chime in and do it for you.
>
>Irish Mike
>

Cheer up, Bucko.
After Obama is Inaugurated in Jan '09, all this will change.

The Blame America First rhetoric will die down when the World begins
to love us again.

The new President will work to ensure that our Constitutional Rights
are preserved.

The economy will remarkably recover sooner than expected.
The MSM will never again use the "D" word (Depression).

You will see.
Trust me.



     
Date: 20 Dec 2008 11:57:55
From: mccard
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?

"Irish Mike" <mjostar@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:laa3l.11072$YU2.2772@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "gtech1" <duanepritchett@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:2qgv16xamg.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>>
>> www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>>
>> Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
>> the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
>> have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
>> dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
>> have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
>> for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
>> absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were
>> not
>> engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
>> example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
>> after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
>> International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
>> August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>
> Well I can see you don't quite have the hang of posting on RGP, so let me
> help you out. It's OK if you post an example of the brutal violence and
> attrocities muslims commit against women but you have to add some thing
> that blames it on America, in general, and George Bush in particular.
> See, you provided the example but you left out the part blaming it on
> America and President Bush. But not to worry, one of the many members of
> the lunatic liberal left who post on RGP will quickly chime in and do it
> for you.
>
>
Or Mike will help out and blame it on the Obama administration.



    
Date: 20 Dec 2008 10:28:14
From: Patrick Karl
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
gtech1 wrote:
> www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>
> www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>
> Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
> engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

How can this be? I thought we had turned Iraq into an American-style
democratic paradise in the Middle East.


    
Date: 20 Dec 2008 08:27:10
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20 2008 9:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:

> www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
>
> www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
>
> Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
> engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

Risky's been pwned!

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Date: 20 Dec 2008 21:58:17
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 20 2008 9:27 AM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Dec 20 2008 9:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:
>
> > www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
> >
> > www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
> >
> > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not
> > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
>
> Risky's been pwned!

You mean you right-wing dickheads pwned me by admitting that there are
still beheadings in Iraq after America "liberated" it with 140,000
occupying soldiers and spending a trillion dollars? Interesting way of
looking at things.

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Date: 21 Dec 2008 10:57:28
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
The Amnesty report is from 2001, maybe you didn't notice. All I was doing
was responding to your original post, which asked for evidence of any
beheadings in Iraq in the 5 years before the U.S. invasion (2003, in case
you forgot).
On Dec 21 2008 12:58 AM, risky biz wrote:

> On Dec 20 2008 9:27 AM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20 2008 9:49 AM, gtech1 wrote:
> >
> > > www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/fedayeen.htm
> > >
> > > www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
> > >
> > > Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam,"
> > > the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son,
> > > have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country,
> > > dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families
> > > have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences
> > > for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total
> > > absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were
not
> > > engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For
> > > example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded
> > > after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty
> > > International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners,
> > > August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)
> >
> > Risky's been pwned!
>
> You mean you right-wing dickheads pwned me by admitting that there are
> still beheadings in Iraq after America "liberated" it with 140,000
> occupying soldiers and spending a trillion dollars? Interesting way of
> looking at things.

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Date: 19 Dec 2008 22:07:56
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Women's Rights Activist Beheaded in... Guess Where?
On Dec 19 2008 10:03 PM, Martin D wrote:

> "BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gunmen broke into the house of a women's
> rights activist in the volatile northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk on
> Thursday and beheaded her, police said. The victim was identified as
> Nahla Hussain, the leader of the women's league of the Kurdish
> Communist Party. She was alone in the house at the time of her death.
>
> It is not known what the circumstances were that led
> to the attack. Violence against women has been an
> ongoing problem in Iraq."
>
>
http://cnn.mlogic.mobi/cnn/ne/middle_east/detail/215122;jsessionid=5DEBDCCAF8479CB1EE3B50E95EC2309D.live23ib

Those beheaders must be very thankful that we liberated them from Saddam
Hussein.

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