Visual signal that you are thinking

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 01:02:13
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Visual signal that you are thinking

I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
(Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).

However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.

I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

Date: 03 Jan 2009 14:00:54
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 1, 6:21=A0am, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> I usually just click on stuff, but yeah this is the general thought
> process that *should* be going on. =A0It's amazing how many people don't
> think ahead in poker. =A0I don't know how many times I've seen a guy rais=
e
> to say 300 from the cutoff, the BB jams for 400 more, and the cutoff sits
> there, requests time, and goes into a big "thinking" session. =A0That sho=
uld
> be an automatic move but because they are so focused on being the center
> of the universe they don't bother to pay attention to things around them.=
=A0

I always figured that was because they're one of
those people who think you should fold if your
hand is probably worse, regardless of pot odds.

(Very common -- I always get abusive comments
about how bad at poker I am whenever I get in with
the worst hand and win)

Date: 03 Jan 2009 17:13:40
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:00:54 -0800 (PST), Old Wolf
<oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote:

>On Jan 1, 6:21 am, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>> I usually just click on stuff, but yeah this is the general thought
>> process that *should* be going on. It's amazing how many people don't
>> think ahead in poker. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy raise
>> to say 300 from the cutoff, the BB jams for 400 more, and the cutoff sits
>> there, requests time, and goes into a big "thinking" session. That should
>> be an automatic move but because they are so focused on being the center
>> of the universe they don't bother to pay attention to things around them.

>I always figured that was because they're one of
>those people who think you should fold if your
>hand is probably worse, regardless of pot odds.

>(Very common -- I always get abusive comments
>about how bad at poker I am whenever I get in with
>the worst hand and win)

These comments are good to get, at least if they're wrong. They're
especially useful if you play the occasional hand in a weird way and
someone is kind enough to make sure your advertisement gets noticed by
everyone at the table. I generally respond with something totally
wrong that makes me look retarded. (Any time I say something retarded
it's on purpose. REALLY!)

Date: 03 Jan 2009 13:38:11
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 1, 8:12=A0pm, Bill Vanek <bilva...@invalid.com > wrote:
> My issue is with your statement that you like to take at least a few
> seconds *each* time. Decisions do come up from time to time, but doing
> this every time to throw people off, or whatever, is a waste of
> everyone's time. Tell me how much you think this habit has helped your
> win rate, or slowed your loss rate.

OK. Rereading my initial post, it wasn't too clear.
I don't stall every single hand. I take time when I
have a difficult decision, and also when the
situation is a typical one where my decision might
be difficult, so that I'm not giving up information
when I do actually need to calculate some odds.

Date: 02 Jan 2009 00:11:32
From: the big dog
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 1, 9:45=A0am, Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
> Thanks to those who gave useful answers, I will
> try some of them out :)
>
> BTW, I'm talking about post-flop decisions on
> hands where it's going to matter what happens.
>
> Pre-flop I either call or muck quickly, or start
> stacking chips if I intend to raise but haven't
> decided how much. =A0Same applies to flop
> decisions in multiway pots, usually.

Wouldn't that give away your intention to raise?

Date: 01 Jan 2009 22:14:30
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

Old Wolf wrote:
> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.

How many seconds? If you're pretending to be Ferguson every time it's
your turn to act you're slowing down the game.

There's a player in Black Hawk that is always slow to act. If he sits
down at my table I immediately ask for a table change, unless it's a
very juicy table.

> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

If you're really worried that simply saying "time" is going to give
something away, just a simple had gesture should suffice. He can't muck
your cards if you have your hands on them or a card protector on them.

Finally, you say "one dealer" is always prompting you. Have you spoken
to him about it away from the table?

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 01 Jan 2009 10:54:36
From: Steam
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 1:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

I don't think my last post went through. Just say "time" and everyone
will know that youare aware whose turn it is.

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Date: 01 Jan 2009 10:52:47
From: Steam
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 1:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

Doesn't everyone just say "time"? If you need a few seconds say "time"
and the dealer and the rest of the table will know you are are aware that
it is your turn.

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Date: 05 Jan 2009 06:25:49
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 1 2009 12:52 PM, Steam wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 1:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
>
> > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> >
> > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> >
> > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
>
> Doesn't everyone just say "time"? If you need a few seconds say "time"
> and the dealer and the rest of the table will know you are are aware that
> it is your turn.

Thats a west coast thingy .. but actually it is catching on around the
country

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 05 Jan 2009 08:30:37
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

"FangBanger"

>> > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
>> > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
>> > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
>> > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
>> > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>> >
>> > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
>> > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
>> > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
>> > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
>>
>> Doesn't everyone just say "time"? If you need a few seconds say "time"
>> and the dealer and the rest of the table will know you are are aware that
>> it is your turn.
>
> Thats a west coast thingy .. but actually it is catching on around the
> country

It certainly is catching on ... but only among the TVSMs. Not looking at
your cards until it is your turn and then taking your time to pretend you
don't know what you are going to do and then folding like you do almost all
the time is a gigantic time waster. Ask yourself, what if everyone at the
table did that. Even with automatic shufflers, you would be hard pressed to
get out 10 hands a down.

Most of the time, people who are "pretending to think" do not know that it
is their turn ... or they are asleep ... or they are remembering when their
bus is going to leave ... or they are thinking that they have not gotten
their beer ... or they are not thinking at all ... they are just sitting
there because they have forgotten it is a new hand ... or they think they
have already folded.

The regular sleepers sometimes can be tapped on the shoulder (if they are
close enough to the dealer) well in advance of their turn to act and they
will wake up, look at their cards and fold. Sometimes, when that does not
work well enough, the dealer will just deal around them.

Sometimes, the question: "If it was your turn, what would you do?" gets
their attention.

People that waste time are another pain that must be endured when playing
poker. This does not mean that everyone who waits to look at their cards
until it is their turn and then take the same amount of time to make up
their minds about what they are going to do are complete jerks, but most of
them are. If everyone did it, it would have to become a "new rule" that it
is forbidden.

Date: 07 Jan 2009 07:51:30
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 5 2009 8:30 AM, da pickle wrote:

I meant just the "time" thingy .. they have done it in California for over
30 years .

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 21:12:33
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 1, 2:24=A0pm, Bill Vanek <bilva...@invalid.com > wrote:
> Now that the thread has gone on, it appears you were serious. Has it
> not occurred to you that this dealer keeps bugging you because you are
> acting like a jackass, and are slowing down the game? You are slowing
> the game down not only for the dealer, but for all the other players.

Perhaps games are different in your area than mine;
in mine it's common for people to think about their
decisions; it reguarly happens that someone will
think for 30 seconds or more. (Not that this is even
a long time; I haven't played in any high stakes
events, but I understand that people sometimes
think for several minutes in those).

> This is something losing amateurs do, and you are not going to get any
> respect from any dealer, or any player who has a clue. If you were a
> winning player, you would want the game to move as quickly as
> possible. The more hands you play, the more money you win.

I don't mind if the action is slow, it gives me more time
to observe the other players. I've never seen anyone
complain (or even show obvious irritation) about someone
else's thinking, in any casino game.

Date: 01 Jan 2009 08:43:25
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:12 PM, Old Wolf wrote:

> On Jan 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Vanek <bilva...@invalid.com> wrote:
> > Now that the thread has gone on, it appears you were serious. Has it
> > not occurred to you that this dealer keeps bugging you because you are
> > acting like a jackass, and are slowing down the game? You are slowing
> > the game down not only for the dealer, but for all the other players.
>
> Perhaps games are different in your area than mine;
> in mine it's common for people to think about their
> decisions; it reguarly happens that someone will
> think for 30 seconds or more. (Not that this is even
> a long time; I haven't played in any high stakes
> events, but I understand that people sometimes
> think for several minutes in those).
>
> > This is something losing amateurs do, and you are not going to get any
> > respect from any dealer, or any player who has a clue. If you were a
> > winning player, you would want the game to move as quickly as
> > possible. The more hands you play, the more money you win.
>
> I don't mind if the action is slow, it gives me more time
> to observe the other players. I've never seen anyone
> complain (or even show obvious irritation) about someone
> else's thinking, in any casino game.

WITHOUT BEING TOO SPECIFIC .. What part of the country do you play in ?

Dont tell me the casino if you dont want to , but what general area of the
country ? And which country ?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 23:12:01
From: Bill Vanek
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:12:33 -0800 (PST), Old Wolf
<oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote:

>On Jan 1, 2:24 pm, Bill Vanek <bilva...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> Now that the thread has gone on, it appears you were serious. Has it
>> not occurred to you that this dealer keeps bugging you because you are
>> acting like a jackass, and are slowing down the game? You are slowing
>> the game down not only for the dealer, but for all the other players.
>
>Perhaps games are different in your area than mine;
>in mine it's common for people to think about their
>decisions; it reguarly happens that someone will
>think for 30 seconds or more. (Not that this is even
>a long time; I haven't played in any high stakes
>events, but I understand that people sometimes
>think for several minutes in those).

My issue is with your statement that you like to take at least a few
seconds *each* time. Decisions do come up from time to time, but doing
this every time to throw people off, or whatever, is a waste of
everyone's time. Tell me how much you think this habit has helped your
win rate, or slowed your loss rate.

>> This is something losing amateurs do, and you are not going to get any
>> respect from any dealer, or any player who has a clue. If you were a
>> winning player, you would want the game to move as quickly as
>> possible. The more hands you play, the more money you win.
>
>I don't mind if the action is slow, it gives me more time
>to observe the other players. I've never seen anyone
>complain (or even show obvious irritation) about someone
>else's thinking, in any casino game.

Then I can't imagine where or what game you play.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 17:24:28
From: Bill Vanek
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:02:13 -0800 (PST), Old Wolf
<oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote:

>I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
>and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
>(Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
>However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
>prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
>yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
>at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
>thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
>I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
>my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
>about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
>way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

Now that the thread has gone on, it appears you were serious. Has it
not occurred to you that this dealer keeps bugging you because you are
acting like a jackass, and are slowing down the game? You are slowing
the game down not only for the dealer, but for all the other players.
This is something losing amateurs do, and you are not going to get any
respect from any dealer, or any player who has a clue. If you were a
winning player, you would want the game to move as quickly as
possible. The more hands you play, the more money you win. It is NOT
the players who are stuck who bitch about the slow play - you are
actually saving them money. *Old* Wolf? Grow up.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 16:28:07
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31, 1:02=A0am, Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz > wrote:

> What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

ignore him...and make sure your hand is protected

(you can break your "pose" if he goes for your cards.)

Date: 31 Dec 2008 14:45:10
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

Thanks to those who gave useful answers, I will
try some of them out :)

BTW, I'm talking about post-flop decisions on
hands where it's going to matter what happens.

Pre-flop I either call or muck quickly, or start
stacking chips if I intend to raise but haven't
decided how much. Same applies to flop
decisions in multiway pots, usually.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 14:39:26
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Jan 1, 5:41=A0am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> THE BEST WAY TO LET THE DEALER KNOW THAT YOU KNOW IT IS YOUR TURN TO ACT =
,
> WOULD SIMPLY BE ACTING ON YOU HAND

Well, I am more interested in winning than
playing crapshoot. Often you have difficult
decisions to make, for example, evaluating
whether the guy who just raised you is likely
to be bluffing or not. This requires a lot of
bodily control on your part and does take time.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 20:24:30
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 4:39 PM, Old Wolf wrote:

> On Jan 1, 5:41 am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > THE BEST WAY TO LET THE DEALER KNOW THAT YOU KNOW IT IS YOUR TURN TO ACT ,
> > WOULD SIMPLY BE ACTING ON YOU HAND
>
> Well, I am more interested in winning than
> playing crapshoot. Often you have difficult
> decisions to make, for example, evaluating
> whether the guy who just raised you is likely
> to be bluffing or not. This requires a lot of
> bodily control on your part and does take time.

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS !

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:41:37
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 3:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

in your second paragraph you "sum up" this whole issue , when you say that
you "like to pretend"

quite simply .. QUIT JACKING OFF AND JUST PLAY !!

These phony "pre-shot" routines people develop at home while watching TV
are just plain silly. They serve no purpose and they make you look like a
fool .

THE BEST WAY TO LET THE DEALER KNOW THAT YOU KNOW IT IS YOUR TURN TO ACT ,
WOULD SIMPLY BE ACTING ON YOU HAND

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:37:39
From: Susan
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

"FangBanger" <a29bed1@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:1vjs26xus1.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 31 2008 3:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
>
>> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
>> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
>> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>>
>> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
>> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
>> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
>> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
>> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>>
>> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
>> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
>> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
>> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
>
> in your second paragraph you "sum up" this whole issue , when you say that
> you "like to pretend"
>
> quite simply .. QUIT JACKING OFF AND JUST PLAY !!
>
> These phony "pre-shot" routines people develop at home while watching TV
> are just plain silly. They serve no purpose and they make you look like a
> fool .
>
> THE BEST WAY TO LET THE DEALER KNOW THAT YOU KNOW IT IS YOUR TURN TO ACT ,
> WOULD SIMPLY BE ACTING ON YOU HAND
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire
>
> ---
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>

absolutely 100% correct.

I'll bet he wears sunglasses and a baseball cap while he does this too.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:23:20
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 2:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

I let my monocle drop out when it's my turn.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 07:57:59
From: charrison100
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for your
cards.

If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a finger
when he prompts you to signal that you know.

Chris

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:51:59
From: eldo77
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:

> If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a finger
> when he prompts you to signal that you know.
>

I wouldn't do this. Some dealers are trying to go so fast they interpret
ANY move [except putting chips in the pot] as a check.

When they point at me, and it happens quite often, I say two words , " I
Know". If they do it again I point back at them. This is one message they
understand. I ALWAYS know when it's my turn.

In the dealer's defense, however, it should be said they have to prompt so
many idiots who don't keep up with what's going on , it's understandable
they might just prompt everybody.

eldo77

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:59:40
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:51 AM, eldo77 wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
>
>
> > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a finger
> > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> >
>
> I wouldn't do this. Some dealers are trying to go so fast they interpret
> ANY move [except putting chips in the pot] as a check.
>
> When they point at me, and it happens quite often, I say two words , " I
> Know". If they do it again I point back at them. This is one message they
> understand. I ALWAYS know when it's my turn.
>
> In the dealer's defense, however, it should be said they have to prompt so
> many idiots who don't keep up with what's going on , it's understandable
> they might just prompt everybody.
>
> eldo77

FINALLY A SANE RESPONSE .

By the way Eldo , if you have a dealer that "points" to you , he is doing
something wrong. The industry standard is to , with palm up , simply hold
his hand out in the direction of the player whose turn it is to act.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 15:15:48
From: eldo77
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:59 AM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:51 AM, eldo77 wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a
finger
> > > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> > >
> >
> > I wouldn't do this. Some dealers are trying to go so fast they interpret
> > ANY move [except putting chips in the pot] as a check.
> >
> > When they point at me, and it happens quite often, I say two words , " I
> > Know". If they do it again I point back at them. This is one message they
> > understand. I ALWAYS know when it's my turn.
> >
> > In the dealer's defense, however, it should be said they have to prompt so
> > many idiots who don't keep up with what's going on , it's understandable
> > they might just prompt everybody.
> >
> > eldo77
>
> FINALLY A SANE RESPONSE .
>
> By the way Eldo , if you have a dealer that "points" to you , he is doing
> something wrong. The industry standard is to , with palm up , simply hold
> his hand out in the direction of the player whose turn it is to act.
>

Yeah, I know. That's how they do it where I play. I consider it pointing.
It rarely bothers me because I've usually acted in the split second before
they can "point" at me, especially if I'm folding.

Incidentally, I agree that this stalling around bullshit is totally
useless. I like to act fast and move the decisions on to the next guy.

And this crap about waiting until it's your turn to look at your cards is
especially annoying. It only takes about a second to flip the cards up to
see your hand. That leaves plenty of time to
[quote] "read" the other players.It really pisses me off to be playing
with a guy who does this.
Say he's on the button and waits for everybody else to go through their
bullshit and NOW he looks at his cards and takes ANOTHER 15 seconds to
decide what to do. Run his ass out of town on a rail.

eldo77

eldo77

eldo77

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Date: 01 Jan 2009 22:46:00
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

eldo77 wrote:

> And this crap about waiting until it's your turn to look at your cards is
> especially annoying. It only takes about a second to flip the cards up to
> see your hand. That leaves plenty of time to
> [quote] "read" the other players.It really pisses me off to be playing
> with a guy who does this.

Then you'll be pissed off at me if we play at the same table. I used to
look at my cards as soon as the last one was dealt to me. I learned
better. Now I don't look at them until it's my turn to act.

There are several benefits to this. One, you get to actually pay
attention to the other players, including the UTG. Two, you can't give
off a tell about the strength of your hand before it's your turn if you
don't know what it is. Three, you already know what the action has been
before you see your hand, which can help you make good decisions about it.

When I sit down at a table I take note of which players look at their
cards as soon as they can, and which ones wait until it's their turn. I
tentatively peg those who wait as the better players at the table. That
usually turns out to be pretty accurate.

> Say he's on the button and waits for everybody else to go through their
> bullshit and NOW he looks at his cards and takes ANOTHER 15 seconds to
> decide what to do. Run his ass out of town on a rail.

It rarely takes me anything close to 15 seconds to act preflop. Waiting
until it's my turn to act to look at my cards usually adds only a few
seconds to my time to act.

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 31 Dec 2008 16:44:50
From: Steam
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 3:15 PM, eldo77 wrote:
>
> And this crap about waiting until it's your turn to look at your cards is
> especially annoying. It only takes about a second to flip the cards up to
> see your hand. That leaves plenty of time to
> [quote] "read" the other players.It really pisses me off to be playing
> with a guy who does this.
> Say he's on the button and waits for everybody else to go through their
> bullshit and NOW he looks at his cards and takes ANOTHER 15 seconds to
> decide what to do. Run his ass out of town on a rail.
>
> eldo77

I NEVER look at my cards until it is my turn to act. It never takes me
anywhere near 15 seconds to make my play, by the time it gets to me I have
already planned out my move based on who is betting, how much, yada, yada,
and of course my cards. Sometimes it takes me 2 or 3 seconds to make my
play, sometimes it is within a second. To compensate, I often will wait 2
or 3 seconds purposely when the play is completely automatic, just so that
I am doing the same thing with different types of hands, and different
things with the same types of hands. This mixes it up enough without
having to waste time unnecessarily. Now when it comes to calling all in
bets, or very large bets, it might sometimes take a few seconds longer
than 2 or 3. If you are heads up, on an all in decision, it doesn't
matter how long you take but unless you are playing way over your head, it
still should be pretty quick.

The problem with looking at your cards before it is your turn to act, is
that a very large percentage of people who do this will quite often give
away tons of information about their hand. They may think that if they
are going to fold, it doesn't matter, but this is a gigantic mistake to
think like that.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 18:59:41
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:15:48 -0800, "eldo77" <ab26ec1@webnntp.invalid >
wrote:

>And this crap about waiting until it's your turn to look at your cards is
>especially annoying. It only takes about a second to flip the cards up to
>see your hand. That leaves plenty of time to
>[quote] "read" the other players.It really pisses me off to be playing
>with a guy who does this.
>Say he's on the button and waits for everybody else to go through their
>bullshit and NOW he looks at his cards and takes ANOTHER 15 seconds to
>decide what to do. Run his ass out of town on a rail.

Oh get real, these games are full of retards and drunks and other
idiots who take in many case minutes to make a move.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:01:26
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
>
> > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> >
> > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> >
> > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
>
> If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for your
> cards.
>
> If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a finger
> when he prompts you to signal that you know.
>
> Chris

My suggestion is to find a new game. What cash games are you playing in?
The ones at Argosy, Indiana are full of retards. There may be 1 or 2
people at the table who have even the slightest clue in regards to
physical tells. I just really don't think it's important in these kind of
games.

Here's what you should do. Watch the players until it's your turn to act.
When the action is on you then take a peak at your cards. Wait 5 seconds
and act. Do this every time. Simple.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:47:25
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:01 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> >
> > > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> > >
> > > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> > >
> > > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
> >
> > If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for your
> > cards.
> >
> > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a finger
> > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> >
> > Chris
>
> My suggestion is to find a new game. What cash games are you playing in?
> The ones at Argosy, Indiana are full of retards. There may be 1 or 2
> people at the table who have even the slightest clue in regards to
> physical tells. I just really don't think it's important in these kind of
> games.
>
> Here's what you should do. Watch the players until it's your turn to act.
> When the action is on you then take a peak at your cards. Wait 5 seconds
> and act. Do this every time. Simple.

JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID !!

when you look at your cards and they are bad..JUST FUCKING FOLD ALREADY !!

WHY THE ACT ?

It serves absolutely no function

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:50:00
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:47 AM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:01 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > >
> > > > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > > > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > > > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> > > >
> > > > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > > > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > > > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > > > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > > > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> > > >
> > > > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > > > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > > > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > > > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
> > >
> > > If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for your
> > > cards.
> > >
> > > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a
finger
> > > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> > >
> > > Chris
> >
> > My suggestion is to find a new game. What cash games are you playing in?
> > The ones at Argosy, Indiana are full of retards. There may be 1 or 2
> > people at the table who have even the slightest clue in regards to
> > physical tells. I just really don't think it's important in these kind of
> > games.
> >
> > Here's what you should do. Watch the players until it's your turn to act.
> > When the action is on you then take a peak at your cards. Wait 5 seconds
> > and act. Do this every time. Simple.
>
> JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID !!
>
> when you look at your cards and they are bad..JUST FUCKING FOLD ALREADY !!
>
> WHY THE ACT ?
>
> It serves absolutely no function
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

What act? Waiting 5 seconds isn't an act. It's just a quick, consistent
routine to follow that will not let those 1 or 2 other people at the table
who are actually paying attention have any indication as to the strength
of your hand. Of course, none of this matters if you ALWAYS raise with the
premium hands (which is likely).

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:56:08
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:50 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:47 AM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 10:01 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > > > > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > > > > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> > > > >
> > > > > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > > > > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > > > > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > > > > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > > > > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > > > > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > > > > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > > > > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
> > > >
> > > > If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for your
> > > > cards.
> > > >
> > > > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a
> finger
> > > > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > >
> > > My suggestion is to find a new game. What cash games are you playing in?
> > > The ones at Argosy, Indiana are full of retards. There may be 1 or 2
> > > people at the table who have even the slightest clue in regards to
> > > physical tells. I just really don't think it's important in these kind of
> > > games.
> > >
> > > Here's what you should do. Watch the players until it's your turn to act.
> > > When the action is on you then take a peak at your cards. Wait 5 seconds
> > > and act. Do this every time. Simple.
> >
> > JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID !!
> >
> > when you look at your cards and they are bad..JUST FUCKING FOLD ALREADY !!
> >
> > WHY THE ACT ?
> >
> > It serves absolutely no function
> >
> >
> > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> > Voltaire
>
> What act? Waiting 5 seconds isn't an act. It's just a quick, consistent
> routine to follow that will not let those 1 or 2 other people at the table
> who are actually paying attention have any indication as to the strength
> of your hand. Of course, none of this matters if you ALWAYS raise with the
> premium hands (which is likely).

If you have 32 or 3 hands in a row that you must fold.. it shows
absolutely nothing to any opponent if you fold them instantly , and then
when you play , you might take 15 seconds to act on that particular hand .

YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 08:58:21
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:56 AM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:50 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 11:47 AM, FangBanger wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 10:01 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > > > > > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > > > > > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > > > > > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > > > > > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > > > > > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > > > > > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > > > > > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > > > > > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > > > > > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for
your
> > > > > cards.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a
> > finger
> > > > > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > My suggestion is to find a new game. What cash games are you playing
in?
> > > > The ones at Argosy, Indiana are full of retards. There may be 1 or 2
> > > > people at the table who have even the slightest clue in regards to
> > > > physical tells. I just really don't think it's important in these kind
of
> > > > games.
> > > >
> > > > Here's what you should do. Watch the players until it's your turn to
act.
> > > > When the action is on you then take a peak at your cards. Wait 5
seconds
> > > > and act. Do this every time. Simple.
> > >
> > > JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID !!
> > >
> > > when you look at your cards and they are bad..JUST FUCKING FOLD ALREADY
!!
> > >
> > > WHY THE ACT ?
> > >
> > > It serves absolutely no function
> > >
> > >
> > > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
atrocities.
> > > Voltaire
> >
> > What act? Waiting 5 seconds isn't an act. It's just a quick, consistent
> > routine to follow that will not let those 1 or 2 other people at the table
> > who are actually paying attention have any indication as to the strength
> > of your hand. Of course, none of this matters if you ALWAYS raise with the
> > premium hands (which is likely).
>
> If you have 32 or 3 hands in a row that you must fold.. it shows
> absolutely nothing to any opponent if you fold them instantly , and then
> when you play , you might take 15 seconds to act on that particular hand .
>
> YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:32:05
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:56 AM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 10:50 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 11:47 AM, FangBanger wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 31 2008 10:01 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Dec 31 2008 10:57 AM, charrison100 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 31 2008 4:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> > > > > > > and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> > > > > > > (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> > > > > > > prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> > > > > > > yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> > > > > > > at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> > > > > > > thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> > > > > > > my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> > > > > > > about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> > > > > > > way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have a card protector then say nothing until he reaches for
> your
> > > > > > cards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are in the Ferguson pose you should be able to simply lift a
> > > finger
> > > > > > when he prompts you to signal that you know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > My suggestion is to find a new game. What cash games are you playing
> in?
> > > > > The ones at Argosy, Indiana are full of retards. There may be 1 or 2
> > > > > people at the table who have even the slightest clue in regards to
> > > > > physical tells. I just really don't think it's important in these
kind
> of
> > > > > games.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's what you should do. Watch the players until it's your turn to
> act.
> > > > > When the action is on you then take a peak at your cards. Wait 5
> seconds
> > > > > and act. Do this every time. Simple.
> > > >
> > > > JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID !!
> > > >
> > > > when you look at your cards and they are bad..JUST FUCKING FOLD ALREADY
> !!
> > > >
> > > > WHY THE ACT ?
> > > >
> > > > It serves absolutely no function
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
> atrocities.
> > > > Voltaire
> > >
> > > What act? Waiting 5 seconds isn't an act. It's just a quick, consistent
> > > routine to follow that will not let those 1 or 2 other people at the
table
> > > who are actually paying attention have any indication as to the strength
> > > of your hand. Of course, none of this matters if you ALWAYS raise with
the
> > > premium hands (which is likely).
> >
> > If you have 32 or 3 hands in a row that you must fold.. it shows
> > absolutely nothing to any opponent if you fold them instantly , and then
> > when you play , you might take 15 seconds to act on that particular hand .
> >
> > YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
> >
> >
> > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> > Voltaire
>
> I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
> you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
> routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.

AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR IT

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:01:48
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
> you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
> routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.

So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:38:57
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:01:48 -0800, "XaQ Morphy"
<a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

>> I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
>> you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
>> routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.

>So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
>folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
>hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.

It gives away that you can decide instantly whether or not to fold,
which means you're probably playing a rote strategy and therefore your
range is probably like something in a starting hand chart.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 20:22:43
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 12:38 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:01:48 -0800, "XaQ Morphy"
> <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> >> I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
> >> you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
> >> routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.
>
> >So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
> >folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
> >hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.
>
> It gives away that you can decide instantly whether or not to fold,
> which means you're probably playing a rote strategy and therefore your
> range is probably like something in a starting hand chart.

Any "established' routine is always betrayed by the person implementing it
If anything it is a terrible weakness !!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 01 Jan 2009 01:51:03
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

FangBanger wrote:
>
> Any "established' routine is always betrayed by the person implementing it
> If anything it is a terrible weakness !!

My established routine is to act randomly on every hand.

--
Kenneth Sloan KennethRSloan@gmail.com
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:33:12
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:01 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
> > you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
> > routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.
>
> So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
> folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
> hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

OMG !! Check the fucking planets !! WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING

it is about time you got one right !!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 01 Jan 2009 10:32:37
From: bgadams
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 1:33 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:01 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize
if
> > > you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted
a
> > > routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.
> >
> > So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
> > folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
> > hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.
> >
> > ---
> > Morphy
> > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
>
> OMG !! Check the fucking planets !! WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING
>
> it is about time you got one right !!
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3I1y3jHgxA

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:35:20
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:33 AM, FangBanger wrote:

> OMG !! Check the fucking planets !! WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING
>
> it is about time you got one right !!

Well I just happen to be fast. It might take someone else a bit longer to
put the hat on, put the sunglasses on, pull the hood up then shuffle a
stack of chips before acting.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:59:49
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:35 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:33 AM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > OMG !! Check the fucking planets !! WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING
> >
> > it is about time you got one right !!
>
> Well I just happen to be fast. It might take someone else a bit longer to
> put the hat on, put the sunglasses on, pull the hood up then shuffle a
> stack of chips before acting.

Actually this whole "pre-shot routine " thingy is why I came up with the
TVSM moniker . Completely senseless and people are sooooo devoted to it !!

Little do they know that it makes them look like complete morons !
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:46:11
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:59 AM, FangBanger wrote:

> Actually this whole "pre-shot routine " thingy is why I came up with the
> TVSM moniker . Completely senseless and people are sooooo devoted to it !!
>
> Little do they know that it makes them look like complete morons !

Agreed. I'll admit to wearing a hat at a few live games, but it had
nothing to do with poker and was just about the fact that I had a hat on
my head that day.

To be honest, the Chris Ferguson sit there for 2 minutes and fold 7 high
routine is pretty silly to me.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:16:23
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 9:01 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
> > you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
> > routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.
>
> So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
> folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
> hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.

As the action is moving around the table, I figure out in advance if I am
going to raise, and how much, depending on what my cards are. I look at
my cards only when the action gets to me. If I am folding I do it
instantly. If I am going to raise, I already know how much, and I rarely
call unless I am on or near the button and it is a limpffest to me. In
any event, it takes no longer than 3 seconds to decide what to do when I
see my cards.

>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Brew
--
Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:21:53
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:16 AM, brewmaster wrote:

> As the action is moving around the table, I figure out in advance if I am
> going to raise, and how much, depending on what my cards are. I look at
> my cards only when the action gets to me. If I am folding I do it
> instantly. If I am going to raise, I already know how much, and I rarely
> call unless I am on or near the button and it is a limpffest to me. In
> any event, it takes no longer than 3 seconds to decide what to do when I
> see my cards.

I usually just click on stuff, but yeah this is the general thought
process that *should* be going on. It's amazing how many people don't
think ahead in poker. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy raise
to say 300 from the cutoff, the BB jams for 400 more, and the cutoff sits
there, requests time, and goes into a big "thinking" session. That should
be an automatic move but because they are so focused on being the center
of the universe they don't bother to pay attention to things around them.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:09:53
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 12:01 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize if
> > you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted a
> > routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.
>
> So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
> folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
> hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Well, I don't look at my cards until the action is on me. So, after I look
and act it's about 5 seconds anyway.

I'm one of the 1 or 2 people at the table who actually watch the other
players when they look at their cards. Not that I claim to be a soul
reader or anything, but sometimes you can get a read.

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Date: 01 Jan 2009 22:24:59
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

CincinnatiKid wrote:

> Well, I don't look at my cards until the action is on me. So, after I look
> and act it's about 5 seconds anyway.
>
> I'm one of the 1 or 2 people at the table who actually watch the other
> players when they look at their cards. Not that I claim to be a soul
> reader or anything, but sometimes you can get a read.

I do the same. However, I didn't mention this in my response as I
assume he's also asking about post-flop action, where you are not
looking at your cards.

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:33:50
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:09 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 12:01 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't even realize
if
> > > you turned your hand face up before you bet. I agree with you. He wanted
a
> > > routine that was quick and consistent....I gave him one.
> >
> > So why not wait until action is on you, fold instantly if you plan on
> > folding or do your 3 second voodoo ritual if you plan on playing your
> > hand? I don't see how this gives away any information.
> >
> > ---
> > Morphy
> > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
>
> Well, I don't look at my cards until the action is on me. So, after I look
> and act it's about 5 seconds anyway.
>
> I'm one of the 1 or 2 people at the table who actually watch the other
> players when they look at their cards. Not that I claim to be a soul
> reader or anything, but sometimes you can get a read.

PURE BULLSHIT

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:17:03
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 11:09 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> Well, I don't look at my cards until the action is on me. So, after I look
> and act it's about 5 seconds anyway.
>
> I'm one of the 1 or 2 people at the table who actually watch the other
> players when they look at their cards. Not that I claim to be a soul
> reader or anything, but sometimes you can get a read.

Ok sure you can get a read, but what I'm saying is there's no reason to do
the same thing for folded and played hands. It's not like someone is
going to get a read on you when you throw your cards away. As long as
you do the same thing if you play the hand, that's all that really matters
here, right?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:20:52
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 12:17 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:09 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > Well, I don't look at my cards until the action is on me. So, after I look
> > and act it's about 5 seconds anyway.
> >
> > I'm one of the 1 or 2 people at the table who actually watch the other
> > players when they look at their cards. Not that I claim to be a soul
> > reader or anything, but sometimes you can get a read.
>
> Ok sure you can get a read, but what I'm saying is there's no reason to do
> the same thing for folded and played hands. It's not like someone is
> going to get a read on you when you throw your cards away. As long as
> you do the same thing if you play the hand, that's all that really matters
> here, right?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Sure. Makes sense to me.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 07:12:57
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

lol

Really?

uhhhh...

How about just saying I know? Or maybe when THAT hand is over you say hey
dipshit I KNOW when it is my turn and probably know more about what is
going on with the hand than YOU do.

Or you could say nothing and just cover your cards with your hands at the
beginning of the hand so the dealer cannot swipe them. Or maybe use a
unique card protector and if he touches em scream bloody murder.

BLOODY MURDER!

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:00:14
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

"Old Wolf" <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz > wrote in message
news:baf897b2-cb48-4653-918b-83a2c6027d20@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

First rule of poker; players must protect their hands at all times. Also,
realize that a dealer has a responsibility to keep the game moving and that
the more hands he deals an hour the more tokes he can potentially make.
And, the more hands he deals an hour, the more money the house makes in rake
which is why management likes fast dealers. If a dealer is too slow, some
players will bitch at him - most particularly the players who are stuck and
trying to get even. Some player slow the game down because they are drunk,
half asleep, not paying attention. Other players slow the game down
intentionally because they're just assholes by nature or because they're
trying to irritate other players and put them on tilt. On the other hand,
dealers need to be polite, professional and give players enough time to
evaluate each situation and decide on the correct action. Of course, you
can always play online where the computer automatically puts a clock on each
player.

To quote famed Las Vegas professional poker player Rozanne Rozanadanna:

"It just goes to show you it's always some thing"

Irish Mike

Date: 31 Dec 2008 06:53:26
From: Lute
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31, 4:02=A0am, Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

I never have this problem myself.
Whenever a dealer reminds me it's my turn, it usually wakes me up.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 07:14:44
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

> I never have this problem myself.
> Whenever a dealer reminds me it's my turn, it usually wakes me up.

lol

Sleepy? We have a guy at Greektown that sleeps at the table. We are sooo
bright and unique in DETROIT we call him 'sleepy'

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 14:48:40
From: Beldin the Sorcerer
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

Date: 31 Dec 2008 06:36:33
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31 2008 3:02 AM, Old Wolf wrote:

> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

"Listen fuckwit, I'm thinking, and if you touch my cards I'm going to make
you eat this entire deck one card at a time."

Hope this helps!

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 06:19:29
From: Bill Vanek
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

Date: 31 Dec 2008 05:58:55
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31, 1:02=A0am, Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

I actually have a serious reply, too. Practice a thoughtful
expression at home - stroke your chin while looking intently at the
pot or something else that feels relatively comfortable to you. Then
use that expression every time it's your turn to act, and avoid it at
other times.

- Bob T.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 05:56:56
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31, 1:02=A0am, Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

It's easy for me. The more I think, the more smoke comes out of my
ears.

- Bob T.

Date: 31 Dec 2008 05:49:18
From: Lute
Subject: Re: Visual signal that you are thinking

On Dec 31, 4:02=A0am, Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz > wrote:
> I normally sit in a steady pose, whether it's my turn or not,
> and then extend one arm if I need to move some chips.
> (Kind of like Chris Ferguson does).
>
> However, one dealer in particular at my local casino will
> prompt me that it's my turn, if it is my turn and I haven't
> yet moved. (I like to pretend to think for a few seconds
> at least each time, to disguise when I am actually
> thinking). If I don't respond then he keeps prompting me.
>
> I have to make some response in case he decides to muck
> my cards or something, but I don't want to give away anything
> about my hand strength (e.g. by using my voice). What's a good
> way to let the dealer know that I do actually know it's my turn?

1) Slap him.
2) Tell him you're play acting.
3) Accuse him of harrassment.
4) Ask to see the manager.
5) Tell him you have a brain disorder.
6) Drool.
7) Shrug.
8) Make a rude gesture.
9) He can't muck your cards if you're holding them tightly. If he
tries anyway, grab his wrist and tell him you know karate.
10) Tell him you post on RGP. He'll run from the table screaming.