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Date: 14 Feb 2009 12:39:04
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events

At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.

I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.

It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!





 
Date: 16 Feb 2009 21:07:07
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 16, 10:14=A0am, "Jason Pawloski" <a679...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 15 2009 10:28 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 15, 3:37 pm, "La =A0Cosa =A0Nostradamus" <a6f4...@webnntp.invali=
d >
> > wrote:
> > > On Feb 14 2009 11:57 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>
> > > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasio=
n.
> > > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same wi=
th
> > > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> > > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> > > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> > > > Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome a=
s you
> > > > think you are?
>
> > > > --
> > > > "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. =A0He's smart also." - Pa=
ul
> > > > Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
>
> > > nt, =A0with his head so far up his ass, he cant hear you
> > > Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious
>
> momentshttp://kuroiso.org/
>
>
>
> > Priceless...... Skillz and Jason. Great minds think alike. I've seen
> > enough, GL!
>
> If a rocket scientist and a mental retard are sitting in a room together
> with a stinky log of shit, they would both agree it smells bad. Think
> about it.
>
> --
> "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. =A0He's smart also." - Paul
> Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
>
> ------=A0
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? -www.recgroups.com

If we were alone in the room I would agree. But since we are not you
are an imbecile. I blocked you on IM because you kept begging for
money. That bores me. Other than that you are a funny guy, So get over
it.





  
Date: 17 Feb 2009 21:32:30
From: Jason Pawloski
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 16 2009 10:07 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:

> On Feb 16, 10:14 am, "Jason Pawloski" <a679...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > On Feb 15 2009 10:28 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 15, 3:37 pm, "La Cosa Nostradamus" <a6f4...@webnntp.invalid>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Feb 14 2009 11:57 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
> >
> > > > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > > > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > > > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
> >
> > > > > Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as
you
> > > > > think you are?
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
> > > > > Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
> >
> > > > nt, with his head so far up his ass, he cant hear you
> > > > Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious
> >
> > momentshttp://kuroiso.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > > Priceless...... Skillz and Jason. Great minds think alike. I've seen
> > > enough, GL!
> >
> > If a rocket scientist and a mental retard are sitting in a room together
> > with a stinky log of shit, they would both agree it smells bad. Think
> > about it.
> >
> > --
> > "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
> > Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
> >
> If we were alone in the room I would agree. But since we are not you
> are an imbecile. I blocked you on IM because you kept begging for
> money. That bores me. Other than that you are a funny guy, So get over
> it.

I never begged for money, you worthless sack of shit, I asked for a stake
- maybe a FEW TIMES at most. Speaking of boring, you IMing every goddamn
day with "Homo say what" and "hey did you just fuck my dead mother" got
really fucking boring really fast. You had the right idea to block me; I'm
sorry I repaid you that $3.30 and the excess of $1.70 because you seemed
to think that it was okay to unblock me. At least you stopped IMing me
every day; that's an improvement.

--
"Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

______________________________________________________________________ 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 15 Feb 2009 21:33:30
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
One bet I'm willing to make is that Dan Porche is the richest regular
poster on RGP. Not cheap. Fun to talk with, plus I know he does many
people favors. And the answer is NO. I don't owe Dan any money. He did
sign up as one of my first members on www.pokermafia.com for $250,
plus took lessons from me. And we started at $30-$60. Dreamclown and
company, paid the $500 an hour for STUD lessons, all variations. We
started at $100-$200 and I took no percentage of the win or loss. They
turned a hefty profit even after lessons. Well into the thousands
after expenses.

I gave lessons numerous times to this party. That's one reason he
challenged Daniel to play $500-$1,000 stud 8. Where he used to walk on
Stud 8, it's now the best game he can play. Was/ maybe still a regular
in the big Eastern mix games. Asked numerous people who was the best
stud 8 player and found me.

The stud high games they had on the Crypto sites went as high as
basically $40-$80. THe game was in English pounds when the pound was
worth more than $1.90. Four games going was very common and one player
lost over $2,000,000 in a year playing the game. He went by the name
Stylesh.

I BROKE the GAME, just as I broke Planets stud 8 game. Yes, I had a
couple of dozen accounts for that game alone. One of these days I may
treat you to the chat about my accounts by players. Ladbroke's didn't
allow US players, but I was privy to the chat:) and the accounts of
the Overseas players.

If you think playing 4 $40-$80 games isn't that high, it's basically
like playing $150-$300 without as great a variance. Plus, Crypto sites
had something other sites didn't have, unlimited raising heads-up. I
went close to 20 bets on the river with a guy with a cince. Going 10
bets was nothing unusual





On Feb 14, 8:57=EF=BF=BDpm, "Jason Pawloski" <a679...@webnntp.invalid > wrot=
e:
> On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>
> > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as you
> think you are?
>
> --
> "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. =EF=BF=BDHe's smart also." - Pa=
ul
> Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
=EF=BF=BD
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 15 Feb 2009 21:28:26
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15, 3:37=A0pm, "La Cosa Nostradamus" <a6f4...@webnntp.invalid >
wrote:
> On Feb 14 2009 11:57 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>
> > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> > Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as yo=
u
> > think you are?
>
> > --
> > "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. =A0He's smart also." - Paul
> > Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
>
> nt, =A0with his head so far up his ass, he cant hear you
> Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious momentshtt=
p://kuroiso.org/
>
> ---=A0
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

Priceless...... Skillz and Jason. Great minds think alike. I've seen
enough, GL!



  
Date: 16 Feb 2009 10:14:38
From: Jason Pawloski
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15 2009 10:28 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:

> On Feb 15, 3:37 pm, "La Cosa Nostradamus" <a6f4...@webnntp.invalid>
> wrote:
> > On Feb 14 2009 11:57 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
> >
> > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
> >
> > > Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as you
> > > think you are?
> >
> > > --
> > > "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
> > > Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
> >
> > nt, with his head so far up his ass, he cant hear you
> > Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious
momentshttp://kuroiso.org/
> >
> Priceless...... Skillz and Jason. Great minds think alike. I've seen
> enough, GL!

If a rocket scientist and a mental retard are sitting in a room together
with a stinky log of shit, they would both agree it smells bad. Think
about it.

--
"Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

------ 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 15 Feb 2009 23:23:40
From: La Cosa Nostradamus
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 16 2009 12:28 AM, Porsche_Dan wrote:

> On Feb 15, 3:37 pm, "La Cosa Nostradamus" <a6f4...@webnntp.invalid>
> wrote:
> > On Feb 14 2009 11:57 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
> >
> > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
> >
> > > Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as you
> > > think you are?
> >
> > > --
> > > "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too.  He's smart also." - Paul
> > > Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)
> >
> > nt,  with his head so far up his ass, he cant hear you
> > Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious
momentshttp://kuroiso.org/
> >
> Priceless...... Skillz and Jason. Great minds think alike. I've seen
> enough, GL!
<3

Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious moments
http://kuroiso.org/

--- 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 15 Feb 2009 18:45:05
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15, 9:36=A0pm, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 15 2009 8:12 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
> > Well, I guess I have to continue to miss it. It sure looks to me like
> > you were talking about one thing and the OP was talking about another.
> > But whatever.
>
> OP was talking about a rule that came up a year ago or so that was talked
> about by Negreanu where if you show 1 of your hole cards you have to show
> both of them. =A0DN didn't like it because he likes to show just a single
> card in certain cases.

That isn't "show one, show all" and I'm pretty sure you can show one
card when you fold (and it ends the hand, of course) or when you win
an uncontested pot. If you can't, people were breaking that rule in
several tournaments I saw or played lately. Showing a card to an
opponent who still had a decision to make seems more like what the OP
is talking about. If you have to show both of them then that makes it
even dumber than it normally would be. But I thought he was talking
about that widely-touted move of showing your hand to get a reaction
from an all-in opponent.

--
Will in New Haven


  
Date: 16 Feb 2009 07:22:28
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
"Will in New Haven"

That isn't "show one, show all" and I'm pretty sure you can show one
card when you fold (and it ends the hand, of course) or when you win
an uncontested pot. If you can't, people were breaking that rule in
several tournaments I saw or played lately. Showing a card to an
opponent who still had a decision to make seems more like what the OP
is talking about. If you have to show both of them then that makes it
even dumber than it normally would be. But I thought he was talking
about that widely-touted move of showing your hand to get a reaction
from an all-in opponent.
==========================

It does seem, in this thread, rules often called "show one [card], show both
[cards]" and "show one [person], show all [players]" have been mixed up as
well as confusion as to whether these rules are applied differently in
tournaments and in cash games and whether they are applied consistently and
also whether they even exist and, certainly, why they might have come about
and several other confusions.




 
Date: 15 Feb 2009 18:12:33
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15, 8:58=A0pm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu >
wrote:
> On Feb 15 2009 7:19 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 6:53=A0pm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > On Feb 14 2009 6:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 14, 3:39=A0pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasio=
n.
> > > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same wi=
th
> > > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> > > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> > > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> > > > "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you descri=
be.
> > > > Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and y=
ou
> > > > have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> > > > tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> > > > works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ st=
ill
> > > > has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> > > > freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect mor=
ons
> > > > from themselves" rule.
>
> > > Not at all.
>
> > > Early in tournament development players would show a card to a partne=
r so
> > > that the partner could give them an indication of what they should do=
.
> > > Partners would openly cheat by showing each other cards when they had=
a
> > > decision to make.
>
> > > So they made a rule that says, "only subtle forms of cheating are all=
owed".
>
> > > Russ can explain it.
>
> > That's the origin of "show one, show all," I'm sure. It doesn't have
> > anything to do with showing an _opponent_ who is all-in your cards to
> > get a reaction so as to know whether to call him.
>
> I'm not going to argue with you, but you completely missed the point.

Well, I guess I have to continue to miss it. It sure looks to me like
you were talking about one thing and the OP was talking about another.
But whatever.

--
Will in New Haven





  
Date: 15 Feb 2009 19:54:37
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15 2009 9:12 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On Feb 15, 8:58 pm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> wrote:
> > On Feb 15 2009 7:19 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 14, 6:53 pm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Feb 14 2009 6:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Feb 14, 3:39 pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > > > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > > > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
> >
> > > > > "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you
describe.
> > > > > Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> > > > > have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> > > > > tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> > > > > works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_
still
> > > > > has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> > > > > freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect
morons
> > > > > from themselves" rule.
> >
> > > > Not at all.
> >
> > > > Early in tournament development players would show a card to a partner
so
> > > > that the partner could give them an indication of what they should do..
> > > > Partners would openly cheat by showing each other cards when they had a
> > > > decision to make.
> >
> > > > So they made a rule that says, "only subtle forms of cheating are
allowed".
> >
> > > > Russ can explain it.
> >
> > > That's the origin of "show one, show all," I'm sure. It doesn't have
> > > anything to do with showing an _opponent_ who is all-in your cards to
> > > get a reaction so as to know whether to call him.
> >
> > I'm not going to argue with you, but you completely missed the point.
>
> Well, I guess I have to continue to miss it. It sure looks to me like
> you were talking about one thing and the OP was talking about another.
> But whatever.
>

I was talking about your comment about the purpose of the rule(s) about
showing cards.

You're missing the point because you insist on trying to see a logical
connection between the rule and the thing that caused the rule to be
implemented. Tournament directors aren't smart enough to require a
logical connection between reality and rules.

Playing teams used to openly flash cards among the team members. So TD's
made some silly rules, most of which didn't actually address the problems
that caused the rules.

_____________________________________________________________________ 
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Date: 15 Feb 2009 18:36:11
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15 2009 8:12 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> Well, I guess I have to continue to miss it. It sure looks to me like
> you were talking about one thing and the OP was talking about another.
> But whatever.

OP was talking about a rule that came up a year ago or so that was talked
about by Negreanu where if you show 1 of your hole cards you have to show
both of them. DN didn't like it because he likes to show just a single
card in certain cases.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

------ 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 15 Feb 2009 16:19:59
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14, 6:53=A0pm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu >
wrote:
> On Feb 14 2009 6:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 3:39=A0pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> > "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
> > Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> > have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> > tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> > works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
> > has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> > freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
> > from themselves" rule.
>
> Not at all.
>
> Early in tournament development players would show a card to a partner so
> that the partner could give them an indication of what they should do.
> Partners would openly cheat by showing each other cards when they had a
> decision to make.
>
> So they made a rule that says, "only subtle forms of cheating are allowed=
".
>
> Russ can explain it.

That's the origin of "show one, show all," I'm sure. It doesn't have
anything to do with showing an _opponent_ who is all-in your cards to
get a reaction so as to know whether to call him.

--
Will in New Haven



  
Date: 16 Feb 2009 05:53:02
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events



> Early in tournament development players would show a card
> to a partner so hat the partner could give them an indication
> of what they should do. Partners would openly cheat by showing
> each other cards when they had a decision to make.

We were subtler than that. Often there were four of us cheating only one or
two persons at the table. We placed our cards in positions that signaled our
down cards to the other cheats. And this was done in the casino. It's
probably still done today.


Jerry (it was back in the 60's) 'n Vegas







   
Date: 16 Feb 2009 08:33:10
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 16 2009 8:53 AM, Jerry Sturdivant wrote:

> > Early in tournament development players would show a card
> > to a partner so hat the partner could give them an indication
> > of what they should do. Partners would openly cheat by showing
> > each other cards when they had a decision to make.
>
> We were subtler than that. Often there were four of us cheating only one or
> two persons at the table. We placed our cards in positions that signaled our
> down cards to the other cheats. And this was done in the casino. It's
> probably still done today.
>
>

For some reason I never understood, the same players who would cheat
subtly in cash games would cheat flagrantly and openly in tournaments.
This was in the 80's.

________________________________________________________________________ 
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Date: 15 Feb 2009 17:58:30
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 15 2009 7:19 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On Feb 14, 6:53 pm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> wrote:
> > On Feb 14 2009 6:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 14, 3:39 pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
> >
> > > "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
> > > Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> > > have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> > > tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> > > works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
> > > has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> > > freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
> > > from themselves" rule.
> >
> > Not at all.
> >
> > Early in tournament development players would show a card to a partner so
> > that the partner could give them an indication of what they should do.
> > Partners would openly cheat by showing each other cards when they had a
> > decision to make.
> >
> > So they made a rule that says, "only subtle forms of cheating are allowed".
> >
> > Russ can explain it.
>
> That's the origin of "show one, show all," I'm sure. It doesn't have
> anything to do with showing an _opponent_ who is all-in your cards to
> get a reaction so as to know whether to call him.
>

I'm not going to argue with you, but you completely missed the point.

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Date: 14 Feb 2009 20:57:44
From: Jason Pawloski
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:

> At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!

Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as you
think you are?

--
"Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

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Date: 15 Feb 2009 15:37:11
From: La Cosa Nostradamus
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14 2009 11:57 PM, Jason Pawloski wrote:

> On Feb 14 2009 1:39 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>
> > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> Wouldn't it be neat if just ONE person thought you are as awesome as you
> think you are?
>
> --
> "Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
> Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

nt, with his head so far up his ass, he cant hear you
Thanks for the memories, you lit up my life for a few precious moments
http://kuroiso.org/

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Date: 14 Feb 2009 17:41:16
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
Moronphy, Whyknown Vinson and Fangbangme know it all Gary. This is
"new theory poker and strategy", which you and I are not privy to
since we are obsolete.




On Feb 14, 3:53=EF=BF=BDpm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.ed=
u >
wrote:
> On Feb 14 2009 6:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 3:39=EF=BF=BDpm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> > > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> > > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> > "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
> > Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> > have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> > tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> > works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
> > has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> > freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
> > from themselves" rule.
>
> Not at all.
>
> Early in tournament development players would show a card to a partner so
> that the partner could give them an indication of what they should do.
> Partners would openly cheat by showing each other cards when they had a
> decision to make.
>
> So they made a rule that says, "only subtle forms of cheating are allowed=
".
>
> Russ can explain it.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________=EF=
=BF=BD
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide q=
uoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



 
Date: 14 Feb 2009 15:11:28
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14, 3:39=A0pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com > wrote:
> At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!

"Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
from themselves" rule.

"Show one show all" is about showing cards when you have folded or
everyone has folded and you win the pot. You cannot show your cards to
one or two opponents. You can just not show them or you can show them
to everyone. It isn't bullshit; it's the rules.

--
Will in New Haven


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 20:57:19
From: Jason Pawloski
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14 2009 4:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On Feb 14, 3:39 pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
> Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
> has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
> from themselves" rule.
>
> "Show one show all" is about showing cards when you have folded or
> everyone has folded and you win the pot. You cannot show your cards to
> one or two opponents. You can just not show them or you can show them
> to everyone. It isn't bullshit; it's the rules.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven

There was a lively thread a year ago or so about having to show both cards
to everyone when only one was desired to be shown. The "show one show all"
nomenclature confused everyone there, too.
--
"Actually, I will read Jason's posts too. He's smart also." - Paul
Popinjay, 10/21/2007 (http://tinyurl.com/4bggyp)

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Date: 14 Feb 2009 15:53:46
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14 2009 6:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On Feb 14, 3:39 pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
> Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
> has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
> from themselves" rule.

Not at all.

Early in tournament development players would show a card to a partner so
that the partner could give them an indication of what they should do.
Partners would openly cheat by showing each other cards when they had a
decision to make.

So they made a rule that says, "only subtle forms of cheating are allowed".

Russ can explain it.

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Date: 14 Feb 2009 15:48:57
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events
On Feb 14 2009 3:11 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On Feb 14, 3:39 pm, Porsche_Dan <Porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> > For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> > freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
> >
> > I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> > wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> > Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
> >
> > It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>
> "Show one show all" has nothing to do with the situation you describe.
> Showing your cards to your opponent when he is already all-in and you
> have a decision to make, to get a reaction, is not permitted in
> tournaments these days. I don't why, since the "don't look" defense
> works perfectly against it. Showing a card while your _opponent_ still
> has a decision to make is stupid and you should be allowed to do it
> freely but I don't think you are. Probably part of the "protect morons
> from themselves" rule.
>
> "Show one show all" is about showing cards when you have folded or
> everyone has folded and you win the pot. You cannot show your cards to
> one or two opponents. You can just not show them or you can show them
> to everyone. It isn't bullshit; it's the rules.

Right, I was speaking of only showing one card not one person, my mistake.
In the cash games I have played in Northern California they generally
don't give a shit what you do about showing cards during play. WTP
probably has a page or two of rules?

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Date: 14 Feb 2009 15:13:39
From: mccard
Subject: Re: Tourney Protocol: Showing Cards at WPT Events

"Porsche_Dan" <Porsche.Dan@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:ef19e58e-78c1-475e-902e-40aaa46ea812@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
>
> At my home game we play mostly cash but do freeze outs on occasion.
> For NLHE cash games we let people show cards during play, same with
> freeze out, to get a fold or call, whatever the read is.
>
> I'm considering playing the WTP in San Jose next month and am
> wondering what the card showing rules are? Are you out there Matt
> Savage? Not the show one show all bullshit I hope.
>
> It's a deep stack bounty game, looks like fun!
>

Only one WPT rule I want to know. If I am the chip leader will Amanda
interview me sitting on my lap like she did with Chino? If not, showing
cards is just a bad damn habit.