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Date: 19 Jan 2009 08:41:07
From: Senator Millionaire
Subject: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it
When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
McDonald's and Burger King.




 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:52:21
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 22, 11:48=A0pm, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com >
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:60b718fb-e14d-47d2-9a37-f737c4227c1d@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> <...>
>
> > Actually I believe I read the U.S. still manufactures more goods than
> > any other country. =A0I couldn't find it again before I posted this, bu=
t
> > I'm sure someone here can find it.
>
> 2/10
>
> Jim

What? Sorry, I dont understand your post.


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:47:12
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 22, 11:41=A0pm, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jan 20, 12:10=A0am, "seedless" <abf5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 19 2009 8:11 PM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>
> > > "seedless" <abf5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > >news:12nf46xapn.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > > On Jan 19 2009 9:20 AM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>
> > > >> Fahgedaboudit. =A0We're toast, and we've subjected our children's =
lives to
> > > >> a
> > > >> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out=
for
> > > >> us.
>
> > > > These are really going to be some dumbass kids.
>
> > Was agreeing in a snarky way Robert, not disagreeing.
>
> > > And their solution is not for us to bite the bullet and stop spending=
until
> > > our production of goods and services surpass our spending and we beco=
me more
> > > economically viable.
>
> > Our country doesn't make anything anymore. NAFTA, WTO, globalization, e=
tc..
>
> > _____________________________________________________________________=
=A0
> > * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com
>
> Actually I believe I read the U.S. still manufactures more goods than
> any other country. =A0I couldn't find it again before I posted this, but
> I'm sure someone here can find it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Here it is, still the largest by far as of 2007.
http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-countries-=
in-2007/


 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:41:22
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 20, 12:10=A0am, "seedless" <abf5...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jan 19 2009 8:11 PM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>
> > "seedless" <abf5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:12nf46xapn.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > On Jan 19 2009 9:20 AM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>
> > >> Fahgedaboudit. =A0We're toast, and we've subjected our children's li=
ves to
> > >> a
> > >> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out f=
or
> > >> us.
>
> > > These are really going to be some dumbass kids.
>
> Was agreeing in a snarky way Robert, not disagreeing.
>
> > And their solution is not for us to bite the bullet and stop spending u=
ntil
> > our production of goods and services surpass our spending and we become=
more
> > economically viable.
>
> Our country doesn't make anything anymore. NAFTA, WTO, globalization, etc=
..
>
> _____________________________________________________________________=A0
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

Actually I believe I read the U.S. still manufactures more goods than
any other country. I couldn't find it again before I posted this, but
I'm sure someone here can find it.


  
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:48:38
From: Clave
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:60b718fb-e14d-47d2-9a37-f737c4227c1d@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

<... >

> Actually I believe I read the U.S. still manufactures more goods than
> any other country. I couldn't find it again before I posted this, but
> I'm sure someone here can find it.

2/10

Jim




 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 21:25:15
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
I'll take that bet:).



On Jan 19, 3:01=EF=BF=BDpm, "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca > wrote:
> "Senator Millionaire" <moon...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c9a8f516-e8c3-40a1-940c-ceee03b2e441@f40g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
> > debt?
>
> zero



 
Date: 22 Jan 2009 13:48:59
From: Senator Millionaire
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
Hey what's this? The National Debt isn't a BIG story no more?


 
Date: 21 Jan 2009 07:06:58
From: Senator Millionaire
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 20, 3:15=A0pm, topset72 <topse...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 19, 11:41=A0am, Senator Millionaire <moon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> > many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> > McDonald's and Burger King.
>
> Should we be sorry Obama told the truth that he will spend?
>
> McCain lied right to your face and you lapped it up. =A0McCain said he
> would not raise taxes, or eliminate the Bush cuts, but he would
> balance the budget. All this while there are less tax revenues coming
> in because of the bad economy and we still have to pay for the war.
>
> Can you please point me to your post where you pointed out this was a
> pile of horse crap?
>
> topset72

Sure, the current levels of federal spending are unsustainable in the
future. The interest on the debt is already approaching nearly one
trillion dollars every two years. You must of missed the PerotCharts
web site. You can get right to the facts here:

http://perotcharts.com/issues/

If you need more accurate and complete information go here:

http://perotcharts.com



 
Date: 20 Jan 2009 12:15:19
From: topset72
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 19, 11:41=A0am, Senator Millionaire <moon...@gmail.com > wrote:
> When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> McDonald's and Burger King.

Should we be sorry Obama told the truth that he will spend?

McCain lied right to your face and you lapped it up. McCain said he
would not raise taxes, or eliminate the Bush cuts, but he would
balance the budget. All this while there are less tax revenues coming
in because of the bad economy and we still have to pay for the war.

Can you please point me to your post where you pointed out this was a
pile of horse crap?

topset72


  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 16:56:47
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"topset72" <topset72@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:332598f3-07e8-4926-8d2a-897ffc3333d9@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 19, 11:41 am, Senator Millionaire <moon...@gmail.com > wrote:
> When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> McDonald's and Burger King.

Should we be sorry Obama told the truth that he will spend?

McCain lied right to your face and you lapped it up. McCain said he
would not raise taxes, or eliminate the Bush cuts, but he would
balance the budget. All this while there are less tax revenues coming
in because of the bad economy and we still have to pay for the war.

Can you please point me to your post where you pointed out this was a
pile of horse crap?

topset72

********************************************

We'll never know if the McCain claims about what he would do as President
were lies or not.

Obama won't get off so easy.

Robert Ladd




   
Date: 20 Jan 2009 21:08:36
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Robert Ladd" <rladd5@cox.net > wrote in message

> We'll never know if the McCain claims about what he would do as President
> were lies or not.
>

But we could make a pretty educated fucking guess! Fuck that Judas!





    
Date: 21 Jan 2009 01:52:48
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:08:36 -0800, "Paul Popinjay"
<paulpopinjay@sbcglobal.net > wrote:

>"Robert Ladd" <rladd5@cox.net> wrote in message
>
>> We'll never know if the McCain claims about what he would do as President
>> were lies or not.
>>
>
>But we could make a pretty educated fucking guess! Fuck that Judas!

Meow!


 
Date: 20 Jan 2009 08:58:35
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 20, 8:46=A0am, "da pickle" <jcpick...@NOSPAMhotmail.com > wrote:
> "Bob T."
>
> Your dad may very well have been a smart man, but I don't think he
> wrote the above himself, as I have heard it before. =A0Of course, that
> may be because your dad said it first and others copied him.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> I have never heard it from anyone else. =A0And I suppose he could have re=
ad it
> in the paper. =A0Does not sound like something he would have read in the =
NYT
> or heard on the TV.
>
> Dad was General Auditor of Cities Service Oil Company ... he is flipping =
in
> his grave (which is not far from my office, I drop by every now and then =
to
> check on the ground cover) since CITGO was bought by Hugo ... and he is
> likely not so happy about the state of the union either.
>
> He was indeed a smart man, but like most of his/my ancestors, he was into
> the drink, if you know what I mean. =A0I thought the day he retired would=
be
> the beginning of one long binge that would bring about an early death ...
> but he stopped drinking and died sober over ten years later. =A0He would =
have
> likely lived longer but for the alcohol, but he and mom had a great last =
ten
> years or so.

I'm glad to hear your folks had a good time after they retired. My
own parents were less fortunate - soon after they retired, my dad had
a stroke and my mom developed diabetes and other health problems.
After only a few years they had to leave their beloved home in the
Santa Cruz mountains, first to a house near me, then to an assisted
living facility, and then to a nursing home as their faculties
dimished rapidly. They died within months of each other, but they
were both pretty well gone before the end.

- Bob T.


  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 11:48:33
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Bob T."

I'm glad to hear your folks had a good time after they retired. My
own parents were less fortunate - soon after they retired, my dad had
a stroke and my mom developed diabetes and other health problems.
After only a few years they had to leave their beloved home in the
Santa Cruz mountains, first to a house near me, then to an assisted
living facility, and then to a nursing home as their faculties
dimished rapidly. They died within months of each other, but they
were both pretty well gone before the end.
=======================

Mom and dad got to take "the trip" (a year in Europe) during those last few
years. Had a great time.

I never had a problem with taking care of them. Dad got very ill and died
within weeks. Mom was healthy and had a very short "end game." I was very
lucky.

My mom had three younger siblings and they all passed before her. Her
youngest brother had a wife that decided to out live everyone ... she was
not a blood relative, but she had no one to take care of her so the burden
fell on me. I took care of her for the last twenty years of her life. I
lived with her for a couple of years after my divorce. I visited every day,
sometimes twice a day. She was blind and mostly deaf, but she was a
wonderful person. We did crossword puzzles and she was pretty good even not
being able to "see" the puzzle. We enjoyed Jeopardy every afternoon as
well.

We had a difficult "last year" and a very difficult last few weeks, but we
do what we must do. I do hope that I am not a burden on anyone when I am
"failing." I was going to say "We'll see" but I guess others will see, not
me.




 
Date: 20 Jan 2009 06:33:36
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 20, 6:21=A0am, "da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote:
> "Robert Ladd"
>
> > Absolutely. =A0I admit that many of my posts are epic in proportion, bu=
t
> > that has been one of my major contentions from the very first off-topic
> > post that I posted.
>
> Indeed you have. =A0I have been shouting this since my father told me (as=
a
> small boy in the early 50's) that when Social Security first started, he
> said ... "This is NOT going to work."
>
> (My mother and father were married two days before "Black Monday" ... the
> depression affected his entire future feeling about "government." =A0He n=
ever
> lost his job and he built the only home he and my mom ever owned in their
> first few years, and he lost his $268 savings in a bank failure, but he
> always provided and he never trusted the government to be anything more t=
han
> what it was ... a necessary evil that would eventually lead us to ruin.)
>
> He used to say that no matter who was president, they would always be "ba=
d"
> because everyone thought they should "do something." =A0He said that no m=
atter
> how horrible he was, Roosevelt proved you could be elected president
> forever. =A0Truman proved ANYBODY could be president. =A0Eisenhower prove=
d you
> really did not need a president. =A0And JFK was proving that you just mig=
ht be
> better off without a president. =A0My dad was a smart man.

Your dad may very well have been a smart man, but I don't think he
wrote the above himself, as I have heard it before. Of course, that
may be because your dad said it first and others copied him.

- Bob T.


  
Date: 20 Jan 2009 10:46:21
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Bob T."

Your dad may very well have been a smart man, but I don't think he
wrote the above himself, as I have heard it before. Of course, that
may be because your dad said it first and others copied him.
===============================

I have never heard it from anyone else. And I suppose he could have read it
in the paper. Does not sound like something he would have read in the NYT
or heard on the TV.

Dad was General Auditor of Cities Service Oil Company ... he is flipping in
his grave (which is not far from my office, I drop by every now and then to
check on the ground cover) since CITGO was bought by Hugo ... and he is
likely not so happy about the state of the union either.

He was indeed a smart man, but like most of his/my ancestors, he was into
the drink, if you know what I mean. I thought the day he retired would be
the beginning of one long binge that would bring about an early death ...
but he stopped drinking and died sober over ten years later. He would have
likely lived longer but for the alcohol, but he and mom had a great last ten
years or so.




 
Date: 19 Jan 2009 17:31:49
From: Senator Millionaire
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 19, 6:56=A0pm, "Paul Popinjay" <paulpopin...@sbcglobal.net >
wrote:
>
> >> Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
> >> debt?
>
> > zero
>
> zip

A few years from now -- the interest alone on the debt will amount to
more than $1,000,000,000,000 every two years. That's one trillion
dollars! And roughly 30-40% of that interest money goes to Japan,
China, and the other lenders. That's a lot of happy meals!





 
Date: 19 Jan 2009 13:10:04
From: Senator Millionaire
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
debt?


  
Date: 19 Jan 2009 22:58:40
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:10:04 -0800 (PST), Senator Millionaire
<moone99@gmail.com > wrote:

>Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
>debt?

They're not supposed to, you fucking moron. It would be insane to do
that right now.


   
Date: 19 Jan 2009 21:30:45
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:3vian4pp9ogneeoro1t37omqb92pnq1bfn@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:10:04 -0800 (PST), Senator Millionaire
> <moone99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
>>debt?
>
> They're not supposed to, you fucking moron. It would be insane to do
> that right now.


It will be shown to be incredibly stupid, in hindsight, when we don't reduce
the national debt, and we, the USA, will be foreclosed upon by foreign
debtors. It's not "if", it's "when".

Robert Ladd






    
Date: 19 Jan 2009 20:34:05
From: Clave
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Robert Ladd" <rladd5@cox.net > wrote in message
news:gl3k1b$8st$1@news.motzarella.org...
>
> "A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo> wrote in message
> news:3vian4pp9ogneeoro1t37omqb92pnq1bfn@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:10:04 -0800 (PST), Senator Millionaire
>> <moone99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
>>>debt?
>>
>> They're not supposed to, you fucking moron. It would be insane to do
>> that right now.
>
>
> It will be shown to be incredibly stupid, in hindsight, when we don't
> reduce the national debt, and we, the USA, will be foreclosed upon by
> foreign debtors. It's not "if", it's "when".

Just curious -- have you been advocating debt reduction *before* now?

Jim




     
Date: 19 Jan 2009 22:46:07
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDammit@cablespeed.com > wrote in message
news:Yrmdnafny6aiyejUnZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@cablespeedmi.com...
> "Robert Ladd" <rladd5@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:gl3k1b$8st$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo> wrote in message
>> news:3vian4pp9ogneeoro1t37omqb92pnq1bfn@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:10:04 -0800 (PST), Senator Millionaire
>>> <moone99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
>>>>debt?
>>>
>>> They're not supposed to, you fucking moron. It would be insane to do
>>> that right now.
>>
>>
>> It will be shown to be incredibly stupid, in hindsight, when we don't
>> reduce the national debt, and we, the USA, will be foreclosed upon by
>> foreign debtors. It's not "if", it's "when".
>
> Just curious -- have you been advocating debt reduction *before* now?
>
> Jim

Absolutely. I admit that many of my posts are epic in proportion, but that
has been one of my major contentions from the very first off-topic post that
I posted.

Robert Ladd




      
Date: 20 Jan 2009 08:21:58
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Robert Ladd"

> Absolutely. I admit that many of my posts are epic in proportion, but
> that has been one of my major contentions from the very first off-topic
> post that I posted.

Indeed you have. I have been shouting this since my father told me (as a
small boy in the early 50's) that when Social Security first started, he
said ... "This is NOT going to work."

(My mother and father were married two days before "Black Monday" ... the
depression affected his entire future feeling about "government." He never
lost his job and he built the only home he and my mom ever owned in their
first few years, and he lost his $268 savings in a bank failure, but he
always provided and he never trusted the government to be anything more than
what it was ... a necessary evil that would eventually lead us to ruin.)

He used to say that no matter who was president, they would always be "bad"
because everyone thought they should "do something." He said that no matter
how horrible he was, Roosevelt proved you could be elected president
forever. Truman proved ANYBODY could be president. Eisenhower proved you
really did not need a president. And JFK was proving that you just might be
better off without a president. My dad was a smart man.




  
Date: 19 Jan 2009 15:01:10
From: BillB
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"Senator Millionaire" <moone99@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:c9a8f516-e8c3-40a1-940c-ceee03b2e441@f40g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

> Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
> debt?

zero




   
Date: 19 Jan 2009 15:56:59
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"BillB" <bogus@shaw1.ca > wrote in message
news:J78dl.460$tM6.291@newsfe01.iad...
>
> "Senator Millionaire" <moone99@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c9a8f516-e8c3-40a1-940c-ceee03b2e441@f40g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Paul, what's the odds that Obama and the Dems will reduce the national
>> debt?
>
> zero

zip




    
Date: 19 Jan 2009 20:51:41
From: BillB
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"Paul Popinjay" <paulpopinjay@sbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:lw8dl.9235$pr6.6277@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
>> zero
>
> zip

Of course, it's not the absolute value of the national debt that matters,
it's the size of the debt in relation to the size of the economy. Obama does
have a 50/50 shot at reducing this, but it won't be in the first few years.
That measure literally exploded under
Reagan/Bush, decreased quite substantially under Clinton, and then exploded
again under
Bush II. It makes the title of this thread somewhat ironic, which seems to
suggest Democrats are big spenders. The vast majority of real US national
debt increase has taken place under Republican administrations.

Federal debt as a percentage of national income is now at its highest levels
since
the US was still recovering from WWII debt in the early 50's. It better at
least
level off soon, or they will be getting into uncharted waters.






     
Date: 19 Jan 2009 20:56:23
From: Clave
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"BillB" <nospam723@anon.com > wrote in message
news:gl3l8s$hpl$1@news.motzarella.org...
>
> "Paul Popinjay" <paulpopinjay@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:lw8dl.9235$pr6.6277@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>
>>> zero
>>
>> zip
>
> Of course, it's not the absolute value of the national debt that matters,
> it's the size of the debt in relation to the size of the economy. Obama
> does have a 50/50 shot at reducing this, but it won't be in the first few
> years. That measure literally exploded under Reagan/Bush, decreased quite
> substantially under Clinton, and then exploded again under
> Bush II. It makes the title of this thread somewhat ironic, which seems to
> suggest Democrats are big spenders. The vast majority of real US national
> debt increase has taken place under Republican administrations.
>
> Federal debt as a percentage of national income is now at its highest
> levels since the US was still recovering from WWII debt in the early 50's.
> It better at least level off soon, or they will be getting into uncharted
> waters.

In graphic detail:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Jim




      
Date: 20 Jan 2009 08:14:36
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Clave"

> In graphic detail:
>
> http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

The graph is indeed showing the pending tipping point.

Wish someone would put the "entitlements" in there (and the "ponzi schemes"
as well).

Any president is just standing in front of a train looking profoundly
"presidential" and declaring that the road ahead will be quite bumpy for
those of us that remain on the tracks.

Unfortunately, there is nothing to be done to stop the train that is
possible to be done. The only question is how long before the train
derails.

The more the government tries to slow the train, the more they make it go
faster. We will NOT spend our way out of this coming disaster.

The business cycles must be allowed to swallow some and reward others. On
the way up, some make more than others. On the way down, some lose much
more than others. Trying to let everyone float up but no one is allowed to
"fail" on the way down just floods everyone ... eventually. All the market
can do is provide the incentives ... government "help" is almost (almost!)
ALWAYS disincentive.




 
Date: 19 Jan 2009 12:29:55
From: Senator Millionaire
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 19, 1:24=A0pm, "Paul Popinjay" <paulpopin...@sbcglobal.net >
wrote:
>
> Seriously, can there be, or has there ever been, a MORE dishonest poster =
on
> this newsgroup than Bob Partisan T.? =A0Ever?
>
> -PP

This partisan stuff can really get comical. Bob T. is trying to
suggest that the Democrats had nothing to do with the spending during
the Bush years. What's worse, he's insinuating that Obama and the
Democratic Congress will reduce the national debt. How fuckin' funny
is that? The interest on the national debt for 2008 was
$451,154,049,950.63. That's billion not million.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm





  
Date: 19 Jan 2009 12:47:40
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Senator Millionaire" <moone99@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:b1948b2a-d607-4bf5-afdb-

This partisan stuff can really get comical. Bob T. is trying to
suggest that the Democrats had nothing to do with the spending during
the Bush years. What's worse, he's insinuating that Obama and the
Democratic Congress will reduce the national debt. How fuckin' funny
is that? The interest on the national debt for 2008 was
$451,154,049,950.63. That's billion not million.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob's nonsense I've read over the years is indeed just that, nonsense. But
I would not call it funny, nor comical. This is not a laughing matter. Our
future, our freedom is at stake. Somebody needs to slap Bob so hard that
the fucking stupid falls out of his head and onto his plate, like a set of
loose dentures.

-PP






 
Date: 19 Jan 2009 10:29:16
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Jan 19 2009 8:41 AM, Senator Millionaire wrote:

> When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> McDonald's and Burger King.

An Analysis of the Presidents Who Are Responsible for the Borrowing:

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.41 billion
per day since September 28, 2007!

The US Treasury will have to print larger denominations soon so we can
fill our gas tanks! How about the Brazillion dollar bill with GW's face on
it?

______________________________________________________________________†
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Date: 19 Jan 2009 10:46:26
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Porsche_Dan" <porsche.dan@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:scte46xlck.ln2@recgroups.com...

>
> An Analysis of the Presidents Who Are Responsible for the Borrowing:
>
> http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
>
> The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.41 billion
> per day since September 28, 2007!
>
> The US Treasury will have to print larger denominations soon so we can
> fill our gas tanks! How about the Brazillion dollar bill with GW's face on
> it?
>

In another and recent thread, I was attacked viciously by the likes of Dutch
and Beldin for suggesting that our nation is heading on a course toward
hyperinflation. Even Da Pickle joined in the Popinjay abuse, clearly
confirming that this is one of the most confusing topics for the average
American to understand. And why shouldn't it be? If you look up
"inflation" on something like Wikipedia, there is an abundance of confusing
gibberish, essentially putting the blame on everything but where the blame
should be. Links to Bernanke's books, graphs and charts, GNPs, laffer
curves, etc., and all that shit! Like I said, no wonder people are
confused! Especially the college-educated. They've been made to be
confused about it on purpose. Look, there's ONE reason for the trouble we
face, and that's because the scoundrels in government are printing enormous
amounts of unbacked paper money. Essentially, they are counterfeiting.

-PP




   
Date: 19 Jan 2009 14:49:54
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Paul Popinjay"

> Even Da Pickle joined in the Popinjay abuse, clearly confirming that this
> is one of the most confusing topics for the average American to
> understand.

No, he did not.

I firmly believe the tipping point is real and we may be approaching or may
have already gone over to the "down" side.

However, printing money is not the ONLY thing that is going the wrong way.

If you could just consider that there are many more "bad things" going on in
this country, you would not be so confused, Paul.




    
Date: 19 Jan 2009 13:32:05
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"da pickle" <jcpickels@NOSPAMhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:_p-dnVKoy_lUe-nUnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> "Paul Popinjay"
>
>> Even Da Pickle joined in the Popinjay abuse, clearly confirming that this
>> is one of the most confusing topics for the average American to
>> understand.
>
> No, he did not.
>
> I firmly believe the tipping point is real and we may be approaching or
> may have already gone over to the "down" side.
>
> However, printing money is not the ONLY thing that is going the wrong way.
>
> If you could just consider that there are many more "bad things" going on
> in this country, you would not be so confused, Paul.

I, would not be confused? Me? *I*!, would not be confused? LOOK who's
talking! If we someday wakeup to find our money totally and completely
worthless, what more has to be done to destroy America than that?

All I said was that your advice to DonkeyBan was poor advice, for a few
reasons. For one, you recommended that he give a sizable chunk to charity.
BZZZZZT! That's wrong. That is SO wrong! Then another thing, you told him
to take what's left over and spend it recklessly. BZZZZZT! Again with the
poor advice! Then finally, you recommended that he save some for the future
and his retirement. Save what? "Dollars"? Yet you never even once took
into account that our "dollars" are losing value, and promise to keep losing
value. Well, they cannot keep losing value indefinitely. Eventually, there
is no more value.

SO, for the reasons above, I still believe, (and I am correct), that your
advice to DonkeyBan was poor advice at that. Then, Dutch and Beldin
unjustifiably attacked and abused me. Where were YOU when I needed a
friend? I didn't see DA PICKLE coming to Popinjay's defense. You just let
Popinjay lay there on the ground, getting sand kicked in his face. You
never lifted a finger to help the Popinjayster. Essentially, that is the
same as YOU being one of the attackers. It's sometimes sad and lonely on
this newsgroup. IHeartWuzzy may be my only true friend.

-PP





     
Date: 19 Jan 2009 16:49:52
From: IHeartWuzzy
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Jan 19 2009 4:32 PM, Paul Popinjay wrote:

> Where were YOU when I needed a friend?
> I didn't see DA PICKLE coming to Popinjay's defense.

No, he didn't, Paul... he pulled a Houdini.

Yet, there *I* was... always present in spirit, flying over you in cosmic
spiritual flight...one of God's little sparrows... watching, guiding,
nurturing, HELPING.

>You just let Popinjay lay there on the ground, getting sand kicked in his
face. You never lifted >a finger to help the Popinjayster. Essentially, that
is the same as YOU being one of the >attackers.

Disgusting behavior from John.

> It's sometimes sad and lonely on this newsgroup.

>IHeartWuzzy may be my only true friend.

True dat, esť.


"I have no fucking clue" -- John_Brian_K, rgp, 1/19/2009

http://tinyurl.com/72ph6v

---†
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




      
Date: 20 Jan 2009 11:02:59
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"IHeartWuzzy"

>> Where were YOU when I needed a friend?
>> I didn't see DA PICKLE coming to Popinjay's defense.
>
> No, he didn't, Paul... he pulled a Houdini.
>
> Yet, there *I* was... always present in spirit, flying over you in cosmic
> spiritual flight...one of God's little sparrows... watching, guiding,
> nurturing, HELPING.

I see said the blind man.




       
Date: 20 Jan 2009 11:36:42
From: IHeartWuzzy
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Jan 20 2009 12:02 PM, da pickle wrote:

> "IHeartWuzzy"
>
> >> Where were YOU when I needed a friend?
> >> I didn't see DA PICKLE coming to Popinjay's defense.
> >
> > No, he didn't, Paul... he pulled a Houdini.
> >
> > Yet, there *I* was... always present in spirit, flying over you in cosmic
> > spiritual flight...one of God's little sparrows... watching, guiding,
> > nurturing, HELPING.
>
> I see said the blind man.

Perhaps you've been unaware that Paul has begun preparations for firing up
the KILLFILE, John.

You should be very, very careful...


"I have no fucking clue" -- John_Brian_K, rgp, 1/19/2009

http://tinyurl.com/72ph6v

______________________________________________________________________†
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 19 Jan 2009 08:45:33
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make
On Jan 19, 8:41=A0am, Senator Millionaire <moon...@gmail.com > wrote:
> When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> McDonald's and Burger King.

Interesting question. What happened to the national debt the last
time a Democrat was president? How does that compare to the
administration-currently-on-their-way-out-the-door?

- Bob T.


  
Date: 19 Jan 2009 09:39:48
From: mo_charles
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
> > When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> > many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> > McDonald's and Burger King.
>
> Interesting question. What happened to the national debt the last
> time a Democrat was president? How does that compare to the
> administration-currently-on-their-way-out-the-door?

i hear bob rubin's looking for work. is his current rate more or less
than the $100 million he siphoned off citigroup shareholders?

mo_charles

________________________________________________________________________†
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 19 Jan 2009 10:20:43
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com > wrote in message
news:1123aa10-64c8-42c6-b939-3b5691228579@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 19, 8:41 am, Senator Millionaire <moon...@gmail.com > wrote:
> When the National debt hits $20 trillion plus during the Obama years,
> many economists are predicting the end of the dollar menu at
> McDonald's and Burger King.

Interesting question. What happened to the national debt the last
time a Democrat was president? How does that compare to the
administration-currently-on-their-way-out-the-door?

- Bob T.

***********************************************

Spending the American people's money is a bipartisan effort. Those of you
blaming the other side are morons with blinders on. And the debt will
continue to rise, under Obama, as it would have under McCain.

We are captivated by the celebrity of politicians and buy into the
misdirection's and outright lies that they spew.

For them to suggest "spending" our way out of the crisis would seem to be a
joke the late night talk show hosts would throw out during their monologues.
But the sad fact is that we are buying this hook-line-and-sinker.

There really is no hope when people put their trust in politicians. We have
abdicated financial responsibility to people that have an agenda that only
has the goal of perpetuating their own power. And we buy their rhetoric as
the efforts of "public servants" rather than the "self-serving,
power-grabbing" people that they are.

Fahgedaboudit. We're toast, and we've subjected our children's lives to a
legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out for us.

Robert Ladd





   
Date: 19 Jan 2009 17:47:13
From: seedless
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Jan 19 2009 9:20 AM, Robert Ladd wrote:

> Fahgedaboudit. We're toast, and we've subjected our children's lives to a
> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out for us.

These are really going to be some dumbass kids.

______________________________________________________________________†
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Date: 19 Jan 2009 21:11:28
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"seedless" <abf5e3e@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:12nf46xapn.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 19 2009 9:20 AM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>
>> Fahgedaboudit. We're toast, and we've subjected our children's lives to
>> a
>> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out for
>> us.
>
> These are really going to be some dumbass kids.
>

No dumber than their parents that are now buying the mind-boggling bullshit
that the politicians, the bureaucrats, the ignorant or bought-off media and
academia are selling to them each and every day.

No dumber than those same parents, grandparents and great-grandparents that
traded and are still trading away a future that could have held great
promise. They are trading it away by taking the easy way out and not taking
the time to understand the facts behind how the Federal Reserve,
politicians, and bureaucrats are systematically destroying our future.

Those entities, those very same entities that drove us to the brink of
economic collapse, are telling us that it is WE THE PEOPLE that are the
problem. The reason for the problem, at least what they are telling us, is
that we don't have enough confidence in the system that they have concocted
for us.

And their solution is not for us to bite the bullet and stop spending until
our production of goods and services surpass our spending and we become more
economically viable. No, their solution is to borrow even more money from
Japan, China, the oil cartels, the banking cartels, with the collateral
being our future and our children and granchildren's future ability to pay.

Yes, our children and grandchildren are going to be dumbasses, just as we
are. But the worst of it is that they will be indentured servants to some
foreign corporations that finally used their economic leverage to convince
the rest of the world not to interfere when they overrun the U.S. with 100
million soldiers to collect goods and services that reflect the true value
of what they loaned to us rather than the deflated value of the dollars that
they hold.

That might not be the exact scenario, but it is representative of what will
surely happen when the rest of the world comes to the conclusion that the
money they are loaning will not be returned in value when they want it back.
They will simply dissolve the U.S. and its Constitution, at gunpoint if
necessary, and tell us to turn over our businesses, land, buildings and work
forces as they foreclose on America.

If we don't see that as a distinct possibility, or even a probability then
we are putting our heads in the sand.

Robert Ladd





     
Date: 19 Jan 2009 22:10:43
From: seedless
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
On Jan 19 2009 8:11 PM, Robert Ladd wrote:

> "seedless" <abf5e3e@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:12nf46xapn.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Jan 19 2009 9:20 AM, Robert Ladd wrote:
> >
> >> Fahgedaboudit. We're toast, and we've subjected our children's lives to
> >> a
> >> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out for
> >> us.
> >
> > These are really going to be some dumbass kids.

Was agreeing in a snarky way Robert, not disagreeing.

> And their solution is not for us to bite the bullet and stop spending until
> our production of goods and services surpass our spending and we become more
> economically viable.

Our country doesn't make anything anymore. NAFTA, WTO, globalization, etc..

_____________________________________________________________________†
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 01:28:41
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?

"seedless" <abf5e3e@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:3g6g46xp0q.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 19 2009 8:11 PM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>
>> "seedless" <abf5e3e@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:12nf46xapn.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> > On Jan 19 2009 9:20 AM, Robert Ladd wrote:
>> >
>> >> Fahgedaboudit. We're toast, and we've subjected our children's lives
>> >> to
>> >> a
>> >> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out for
>> >> us.
>> >
>> > These are really going to be some dumbass kids.
>
> Was agreeing in a snarky way Robert, not disagreeing.
>
>> And their solution is not for us to bite the bullet and stop spending
>> until
>> our production of goods and services surpass our spending and we become
>> more
>> economically viable.
>
> Our country doesn't make anything anymore. NAFTA, WTO, globalization,
> etc..
>

I didn't think you were disagreeing. I just used your comment to further
clarify my point. I get out of control when I get on a rant and so I've
tried to keep my posts a little smaller.

Your post gave me a jumping-on point to continue my rant. Thanks!

Robert Ladd




   
Date: 19 Jan 2009 10:24:33
From: Paul Popinjay
Subject: Re: The National Debt is $10.7 Trillion. Will Obama and the Dems Make it $20 Trillion?
"Robert Ladd" <rladd5@cox.net > wrote in message
news:gl2crt$r3h$1@news.motzarella.org...
>

>
> Spending the American people's money is a bipartisan effort. Those of you
> blaming the other side are morons with blinders on. And the debt will
> continue to rise, under Obama, as it would have under McCain.
>
> We are captivated by the celebrity of politicians and buy into the
> misdirection's and outright lies that they spew.
>
> For them to suggest "spending" our way out of the crisis would seem to be
> a joke the late night talk show hosts would throw out during their
> monologues. But the sad fact is that we are buying this
> hook-line-and-sinker.
>
> There really is no hope when people put their trust in politicians. We
> have abdicated financial responsibility to people that have an agenda that
> only has the goal of perpetuating their own power. And we buy their
> rhetoric as the efforts of "public servants" rather than the
> "self-serving, power-grabbing" people that they are.
>
> Fahgedaboudit. We're toast, and we've subjected our children's lives to a
> legacy of believing that politicians are the good guys looking out for us.
>
> Robert Ladd
>

Seriously, can there be, or has there ever been, a MORE dishonest poster on
this newsgroup than Bob Partisan T.? Ever?

(notice he didn't say squat about Jimmy Carter, or the fact that there
really WAS an increase in the national debt under Clinton) Of course,
people like you and I, Robert, y'know, HONEST people, tell it like it is.
Destruction of our country is a bipartisan effort. Thank you very much.
Well said, and good post as usual.

-PP