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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:41:17
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: SNG question
This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
a re-creation of the hand history:

Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530

Villain has the button
Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00

1 fold
Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
2 folds
Villain re-raises to 300
2 folds

What should the hero do here and why?
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 22:16:28
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 11:41 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> a re-creation of the hand history:
>
> Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
>
> Villain has the button
> Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
>
> 1 fold
> Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> 2 folds
> Villain re-raises to 300
> 2 folds
>
> What should the hero do here and why?
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

I will give some of you a chance to flame me , but I have never played one
of these but I would think that anyone with experience would have some
sort of idea about "plateaus". I would think at this point to have
garnered that many chips that fast that I would give very serious
consideration to going "behind the log "(not playing ).

This format strikes me as an interesting mix between "gamble mode' and
"stall mode" when the gambling got you to a point you consider safe .

I have folded KK ..3 handed in a sng when I have very little chips and
other 2 are near even and have both gone all in . I thus assured myself
2nd place , or a much better shot at it .

If I had ever intended to fold KK preflop, I wouldnt have played in the
first place . I would either be in gamble mode or flat stall mode .NO IN
BETWEEN.

ON ANOTHER NOTE... i HOPE WHEN YOU SAY 'CLICK SIT OUT" THAT YOU DONT
ACTUALLY MEAN LITERALLY CLICKING ON THE SIT OUT BUTTON (sorry caps and I
aint retyping it )

I think that would give a signal to others that might in some cases be
considered 'unfair". I would think that the sites offering this format
would take the sit out option away from you

OR SHOULD


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 03 Jan 2009 14:03:36
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Jan 1, 8:34=A0pm, "FellKnight" <jordandevenp...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 1 2009 1:16 AM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > ON ANOTHER NOTE... i HOPE WHEN YOU SAY 'CLICK SIT OUT" THAT YOU DONT
> > ACTUALLY MEAN LITERALLY CLICKING ON THE SIT OUT BUTTON (sorry caps and =
I
> > aint retyping it )
>
> Oh jesus, are you one of those old fuckers who takes 2 minutes to type a
> simple sentence with two fingers?

He must spend 8 hours a day on r.g.p then, going
by his post volume!



  
Date: 31 Dec 2008 23:34:16
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Jan 1 2009 1:16 AM, FangBanger wrote:

> ON ANOTHER NOTE... i HOPE WHEN YOU SAY 'CLICK SIT OUT" THAT YOU DONT
> ACTUALLY MEAN LITERALLY CLICKING ON THE SIT OUT BUTTON (sorry caps and I
> aint retyping it )

Oh jesus, are you one of those old fuckers who takes 2 minutes to type a
simple sentence with two fingers?

Fell
--
Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:24:54
From: I eat donks
Subject: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.

I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
it 60 more to call. Your move?

'So donkeys, come rally,
And the last hand let us raise!
The miracle suck-outs will tally,
And save the donkey race!'

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Date: 02 Jan 2009 16:54:34
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_thread/thread/eb4d=
fa91fe9e4019/46e769d5f92330ee?lnk=3Dgst&q=3DCash+or+Win+++GCA#46e769d5f9233=
0ee




On Dec 31 2008, 1:58=EF=BF=BDpm, "gtech1" <duanepritch...@comcast.net > wrot=
e:
> If there are 21 players left in a 20-person satellite, and I'm the bigges=
t
> stack, safe to say I'm not playing any more hands. =EF=BF=BD
> On Dec 31 2008 4:51 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 9:42 PM, FellKnight wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > > > Ok, let's try to turn this round. =EF=BF=BDThis was from a satellit=
e a long while
> > > > ago. =EF=BF=BDTop 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, bli=
nds 10/20 K,
> > > > ante 2K. =EF=BF=BDThere are a few shorties on the other table with =
50K, and the
> > > > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
>
> > > > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, w=
ho
> made
> > > > it 60 more to call. =EF=BF=BDYour move? =EF=BF=BD
>
> > > > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > > > And the last hand let us raise!
> > > > The miracle suck-outs will tally, =EF=BF=BD
> > > > And save the donkey race!'
>
> > > 1. You seem to imply 2 tables left, in which case the tourney is over=
.
> > > 2. How many players are left?
> > > 3. Please answer judiciously, lest you end up back in the killfile.
>
> > > Fell
> > > --
> > > Be Loud. =EF=BF=BDBe Proud. =EF=BF=BDBe Considerate!
>
> > Fuck you, my dear T2 boy. =EF=BF=BDI think I prefer to be in your kill-=
file.
> > However, I am too polite to ignore a question, even from an asshole lik=
e
> > you.
>
> > I forgot to mention that there are 21 players left. =EF=BF=BDSo 'the ot=
her table'
> > should have read 'the other tables'. =EF=BF=BDA simple typo.
>
> > Please please put me back into your kill-file. =EF=BF=BDThanks.
>
> > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > And the last hand let us raise!
> > The miracle suck-outs will tally, =EF=BF=BD
> > And save the donkey race!'
>
> --------=EF=BF=BD
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? -www.recgroups.com- Hide quoted te=
xt -
>
> - Show quoted text -



  
Date: 31 Dec 2008 14:04:12
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 3:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:

> I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
> it 60 more to call. Your move?

Limp instead of raising. Your goal is to pick off a short stack, not give
them reasons to fold. Let them think they can get you to fold. If the BB
wants to raise fine, shove on him and see if he wants to bust on the
bubble.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 14:21:48
From: I eat donks
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 10:04 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 3:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>
> > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
> > it 60 more to call. Your move?
>
> Limp instead of raising. Your goal is to pick off a short stack, not give
> them reasons to fold. Let them think they can get you to fold. If the BB
> wants to raise fine, shove on him and see if he wants to bust on the
> bubble.

Good point about the shorties and open-limping. But not sure with those
stacks, it would work. The shortie at button had 60K, with the antes at
2K and the blinds at 10/20K, even the biggest donk would have enough sense
to know that they have no FE. If they have anything at all (2 big cards,
any pair) they are likely to be calling your raise anyway.

However, by limping, you give the BB no reason to fold. You are then in
danger of a BB special...and he has chips to hurt you very badly. Unless
of course, you play extra weak-tight, and fold to a flop bet if you dont
hit a set, or call a flop bet, then muck to a turn bet.

If your intention is to punish the BB, then a jam would be perfect.
However, if your intention is to go through, you must assume that the BB
has enough sense to fold KK/QQ...otherwise you are risking a suck-out. Is
it worth the 20% risk when 20th and 1st pay the same, and there are enough
shorties around to mean that you are more or less certain to go through
should you fold?

> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio


'So donkeys, come rally,
And the last hand let us raise!
The miracle suck-outs will tally,
And save the donkey race!'

________________________________________________________________________ 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:42:20
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
> ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
>
> I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
> it 60 more to call. Your move?
>
> 'So donkeys, come rally,
> And the last hand let us raise!
> The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> And save the donkey race!'

1. You seem to imply 2 tables left, in which case the tourney is over.
2. How many players are left?
3. Please answer judiciously, lest you end up back in the killfile.

Fell
--
Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!

_____________________________________________________________________ 
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:51:32
From: I eat donks
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 9:42 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> >
> > Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
> > ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> > ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
> >
> > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
> > it 60 more to call. Your move?
> >
> > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > And the last hand let us raise!
> > The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> > And save the donkey race!'
>
> 1. You seem to imply 2 tables left, in which case the tourney is over.
> 2. How many players are left?
> 3. Please answer judiciously, lest you end up back in the killfile.
>
> Fell
> --
> Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!

Fuck you, my dear T2 boy. I think I prefer to be in your kill-file.
However, I am too polite to ignore a question, even from an asshole like
you.

I forgot to mention that there are 21 players left. So 'the other table'
should have read 'the other tables'. A simple typo.

Please please put me back into your kill-file. Thanks.


'So donkeys, come rally,
And the last hand let us raise!
The miracle suck-outs will tally,
And save the donkey race!'

____________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




    
Date: 31 Dec 2008 16:00:33
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 4:51 PM, I eat donks wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 9:42 PM, FellKnight wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
> > > ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> > > ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> > > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
> > >
> > > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who
made
> > > it 60 more to call. Your move?
> > >
> > > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > > And the last hand let us raise!
> > > The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> > > And save the donkey race!'
> >
> > 1. You seem to imply 2 tables left, in which case the tourney is over.
> > 2. How many players are left?
> > 3. Please answer judiciously, lest you end up back in the killfile.
> >
> > Fell
> > --
> > Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!
>
> Fuck you, my dear T2 boy. I think I prefer to be in your kill-file.
> However, I am too polite to ignore a question, even from an asshole like
> you.
>
> I forgot to mention that there are 21 players left. So 'the other table'
> should have read 'the other tables'. A simple typo.
>
> Please please put me back into your kill-file. Thanks.
>
>
> 'So donkeys, come rally,
> And the last hand let us raise!
> The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> And save the donkey race!'

ONLY TOO PLEASED!
PLONK!

Fell
--
Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!

____________________________________________________________________ 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



     
Date: 02 Jan 2009 13:01:40
From: Omaholic
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 4:00 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 4:51 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 9:42 PM, FellKnight wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long
while
> > > > ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> > > > ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> > > > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
> > > >
> > > > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who
> made
> > > > it 60 more to call. Your move?
> > > >
> > > > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > > > And the last hand let us raise!
> > > > The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> > > > And save the donkey race!'
> > >
> > > 1. You seem to imply 2 tables left, in which case the tourney is over.
> > > 2. How many players are left?
> > > 3. Please answer judiciously, lest you end up back in the killfile.
> > >
> > > Fell
> > > --
> > > Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!
> >
> > Fuck you, my dear T2 boy. I think I prefer to be in your kill-file.
> > However, I am too polite to ignore a question, even from an asshole like
> > you.
> >
> > I forgot to mention that there are 21 players left. So 'the other table'
> > should have read 'the other tables'. A simple typo.
> >
> > Please please put me back into your kill-file. Thanks.
> >
> >
> > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > And the last hand let us raise!
> > The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> > And save the donkey race!'
>
> ONLY TOO PLEASED!
> PLONK!
>
> Fell
> --
> Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!

LOL, I didn't realize who it was, but I had already killfiled him a few
weeks ago!

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:58:03
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
If there are 21 players left in a 20-person satellite, and I'm the biggest
stack, safe to say I'm not playing any more hands.
On Dec 31 2008 4:51 PM, I eat donks wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 9:42 PM, FellKnight wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
> > > ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> > > ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> > > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
> > >
> > > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who
made
> > > it 60 more to call. Your move?
> > >
> > > 'So donkeys, come rally,
> > > And the last hand let us raise!
> > > The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> > > And save the donkey race!'
> >
> > 1. You seem to imply 2 tables left, in which case the tourney is over.
> > 2. How many players are left?
> > 3. Please answer judiciously, lest you end up back in the killfile.
> >
> > Fell
> > --
> > Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!
>
> Fuck you, my dear T2 boy. I think I prefer to be in your kill-file.
> However, I am too polite to ignore a question, even from an asshole like
> you.
>
> I forgot to mention that there are 21 players left. So 'the other table'
> should have read 'the other tables'. A simple typo.
>
> Please please put me back into your kill-file. Thanks.
>
>
> 'So donkeys, come rally,
> And the last hand let us raise!
> The miracle suck-outs will tally,
> And save the donkey race!'

-------- 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:27:21
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
> ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
>
> I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
> it 60 more to call. Your move?

Shove and let him make the mistake of calling off. Assuming it's the
bubble.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:58:27
From: I eat donks
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Dec 31 2008 9:27 PM, GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> >
> > Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
> > ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
> > ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
> > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
> >
> > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
> > it 60 more to call. Your move?
>
> Shove and let him make the mistake of calling off. Assuming it's the
> bubble.

Yes, forgot to put down there were 21 players left.

Interesting dilemma, surely. By folding, you are more or less certain to
go through with 440K left and quiet a few shorties on 50-60K...by pushing,
and if the donk was 'trap min-raising' with KK/QQ, and he instant
calls....he sucks out 1 times in 5, you are in the BB next...with 50K, and
blinds at 10/20K with 5K ante...

Wouldn't like to say which is the better play, folding or pushing.

'So donkeys, come rally,
And the last hand let us raise!
The miracle suck-outs will tally,
And save the donkey race!'

------ 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



    
Date: 02 Jan 2009 03:07:14
From: Pepe Papon
Subject: Re: What if you had AA?
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:58:27 -0800, "I eat donks"
<a154cfd@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>On Dec 31 2008 9:27 PM, GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:
>
>> On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, I eat donks wrote:
>>
>> > On Dec 31 2008 5:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>> >
>> > Ok, let's try to turn this round. This was from a satellite a long while
>> > ago. Top 20 goes through, you are big stack with 500K, blinds 10/20 K,
>> > ante 2K. There are a few shorties on the other table with 50K, and the
>> > shorties at this table has 60K, at the button.
>> >
>> > I had AA UTG, open-raised to 60K, all folded to the BB with 450K, who made
>> > it 60 more to call. Your move?
>>
>> Shove and let him make the mistake of calling off. Assuming it's the
>> bubble.
>
>Yes, forgot to put down there were 21 players left.
>
>Interesting dilemma, surely. By folding, you are more or less certain to
>go through with 440K left and quiet a few shorties on 50-60K...by pushing,
>and if the donk was 'trap min-raising' with KK/QQ, and he instant
>calls....he sucks out 1 times in 5, you are in the BB next...with 50K, and
>blinds at 10/20K with 5K ante...
>
>Wouldn't like to say which is the better play, folding or pushing.

Why risk anything at all when you're virtually 100% certain of winning
just by folding?


 
Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:49:54
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 11:41 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> a re-creation of the hand history:
>
> Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
>
> Villain has the button
> Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
>
> 1 fold
> Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> 2 folds
> Villain re-raises to 300
> 2 folds
>
> What should the hero do here and why?

Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's no
fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of pussies I've
ever seen.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 14:56:04
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Jan 1, 9:02=A0am, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> If you sit out you are giving up your blinds for free. =A0Short stacks wi=
ll
> just auto jam you and stay alive that way. =A0I've seen situations where,
> even though against the rules, the players will actually say "hey this gu=
y
> is sitting out let's take his chips and bust him".

I like to use the "sit out bluff" sometimes. Sit out after
folding in the UTG pos. Then when someone steals
your blind, sit in before action gets to you and pop it back.


  
Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:28:44
From: johnny_t
Subject: Re: SNG question
Raider Fan wrote:

> Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's no
> fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of pussies I've
> ever seen.

What's your goal, to double-plus win? You did see that this is double
or nothing SNG right? (Regular SNG, there is TON'S more validity to a
push here). A Call by this player is a disaster mathematically. Even
if you have them dominated. All risk and no gain. And they may just be
too stupid NOT to call.

There is a lot to be said by folding here. I have no idea what notes
on player 1 is, and whether or not he is just going to be a pain in the
ass and ping you every hand. If so, noting this and figuring out a game
plan is reasonable.

More likely just a clueless player, folding doesn't really hurt.

But are the other players playing REALLY tight or has there been action.
If there is action, just sit back and take your winning. Player 1 may
do all the action for you.

I think all you have to do is play tight, and occasionally pressure a
middle stack for his blinds if you can pull that off, and I think you
win this tourney.

This hand looks like it increases your winning percentages by just a few
points. And has the risk of giving it all back way too high to make
playing worth it. And you don't even really have splash chips against
this guy.

If you flat call you are set mining.


   
Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:59:32
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:28 PM, johnny_t wrote:

> Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's no
> > fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of pussies I've
> > ever seen.
>
> What's your goal, to double-plus win? You did see that this is double
> or nothing SNG right? (Regular SNG, there is TON'S more validity to a
> push here). A Call by this player is a disaster mathematically.

You guys must not have played many of these. You're not in the money with
4,000 chips. They play tight as a drum. There's a big range for the
min-raise from villain. Call is terrible. If he has AK, AQ, AJ, Axs
(which are all in his range), you're giving him a free draw on the flop.
Push here and he'll fold.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 16:24:24
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: SNG question

"Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrewed1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:4ivs26x7r3.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 31 2008 1:28 PM, johnny_t wrote:
>
> > Raider Fan wrote:
> >
> > > Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's no
> > > fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of pussies
I've
> > > ever seen.
> >
> > What's your goal, to double-plus win? You did see that this is double
> > or nothing SNG right? (Regular SNG, there is TON'S more validity to a
> > push here). A Call by this player is a disaster mathematically.
>
> You guys must not have played many of these. You're not in the money with
> 4,000 chips. They play tight as a drum.

In the Starz $5 DONs the 7th and 6th players are there so long everyone
grows a long beard before the double up.

Usually the big stacks feel like most of the rgp-ers here, and let the
smaller stacks get off with no pressure on them




    
Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:05:21
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> Push here and he'll fold.

Pushing here as this much of an overbet seems pretty silly to me. If you
can't win with 4000 chips then you can't win with 4480 or whatever you'll
have if he folds. I think you can fairly easily nit up your way to a
prize here with 4k, but you can also re-raise his raise to 900-1000 and
fold to a push or put him on a decision to play a pot with you.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:12:06
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:05 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 1:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > Push here and he'll fold.
>
> Pushing here as this much of an overbet seems pretty silly to me. If you
> can't win with 4000 chips then you can't win with 4480 or whatever you'll
> have if he folds. I think you can fairly easily nit up your way to a
> prize here with 4k, but you can also re-raise his raise to 900-1000 and
> fold to a push or put him on a decision to play a pot with you.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

You can easily shut down Stars and walk away from the computer and cash.
It makes absolutely no sense to play any hand unless you're still at the
computer and its your big blind. Yeah, calling a shories all in of 500
with the blinds are 100/200 and you're in your BB is fine, but we don't
need to get into an argument over semantics.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:09:35
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:05 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 1:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > Push here and he'll fold.
>
> Pushing here as this much of an overbet seems pretty silly to me. If you
> can't win with 4000 chips then you can't win with 4480 or whatever you'll
> have if he folds. I think you can fairly easily nit up your way to a
> prize here with 4k, but you can also re-raise his raise to 900-1000 and
> fold to a push or put him on a decision to play a pot with you.

You don't want to take this to the flop. You want to take away the AK,
AQ, AJ, Axs, any ace hand that he could be holding. You're a huge
favorite to his range, but you don't want to tango post-flop. Take his
chips and move on.

After he folds to the push, you're auto-money.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:12:55
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:09 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:05 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 1:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
> >
> > > Push here and he'll fold.
> >
> > Pushing here as this much of an overbet seems pretty silly to me. If you
> > can't win with 4000 chips then you can't win with 4480 or whatever you'll
> > have if he folds. I think you can fairly easily nit up your way to a
> > prize here with 4k, but you can also re-raise his raise to 900-1000 and
> > fold to a push or put him on a decision to play a pot with you.
>
> You don't want to take this to the flop. You want to take away the AK,
> AQ, AJ, Axs, any ace hand that he could be holding. You're a huge
> favorite to his range, but you don't want to tango post-flop. Take his
> chips and move on.
>
> After he folds to the push, you're auto-money.

What the fuck?

You are not money with 4302 chips but you are with 4692?

Are you trolling?

Fell
--
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:59:31
From: NotACmputr
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 4:12 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 3:09 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 2:05 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 1:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Push here and he'll fold.
> > >
> > > Pushing here as this much of an overbet seems pretty silly to me. If you
> > > can't win with 4000 chips then you can't win with 4480 or whatever you'll
> > > have if he folds. I think you can fairly easily nit up your way to a
> > > prize here with 4k, but you can also re-raise his raise to 900-1000 and
> > > fold to a push or put him on a decision to play a pot with you.
> >
> > You don't want to take this to the flop. You want to take away the AK,
> > AQ, AJ, Axs, any ace hand that he could be holding. You're a huge
> > favorite to his range, but you don't want to tango post-flop. Take his
> > chips and move on.
> >
> > After he folds to the push, you're auto-money.
>
> What the fuck?
>
> You are not money with 4302 chips but you are with 4692?
>
> Are you trolling?
>
> Fell
> --
> Be Loud. Be Proud. Be Considerate!

I think he has to be trolling. Maybe he made a bet with someone to try to
get you, me, and CincyKid on the same side of an argument ever, in which
case he's winning.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:22:46
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:59 PM, NotACmputr wrote:

>
> I think he has to be trolling. Maybe he made a bet with someone to try to
> get you, me, and CincyKid on the same side of an argument ever, in which
> case he's winning.

Keep your piehole shut Chris! It was going so good too!

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:01:31
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:59 PM, NotACmputr wrote:

> I think he has to be trolling. Maybe he made a bet with someone to try to
> get you, me, and CincyKid on the same side of an argument ever, in which
> case he's winning.

Holy crap, it's an evil plot to destroy the world!

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:17:16
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 4:01 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:59 PM, NotACmputr wrote:
>
> > I think he has to be trolling. Maybe he made a bet with someone to try to
> > get you, me, and CincyKid on the same side of an argument ever, in which
> > case he's winning.
>
> Holy crap, it's an evil plot to destroy the world!
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Fuck it. I change my answer. Shove!

* In all seriousness, I never play the regular speed DON's....just the
turbos. In the turbos 4000 chips is enough to turn off the computer, go
take a shit, whatever....you're golden.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:24:07
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:17 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> * In all seriousness, I never play the regular speed DON's....just the
> turbos. In the turbos 4000 chips is enough to turn off the computer, go
> take a shit, whatever....you're golden.

This is the 2nd time you've mentioned this in this thread. If you have to
go that bad just take a break and go. RGP will be here when you get back.
Really.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 13:45:56
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 4:24 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 3:17 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > * In all seriousness, I never play the regular speed DON's....just the
> > turbos. In the turbos 4000 chips is enough to turn off the computer, go
> > take a shit, whatever....you're golden.
>
> This is the 2nd time you've mentioned this in this thread. If you have to
> go that bad just take a break and go. RGP will be here when you get back.
> Really.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Got a baby turtle head pokin'.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:12:45
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:09 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> You don't want to take this to the flop. You want to take away the AK,
> AQ, AJ, Axs, any ace hand that he could be holding. You're a huge
> favorite to his range, but you don't want to tango post-flop. Take his
> chips and move on.
>
> After he folds to the push, you're auto-money.

Well in this particular hand when you push and he insta calls, you're
auto-rail.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:17:27
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:12 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:09 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > You don't want to take this to the flop. You want to take away the AK,
> > AQ, AJ, Axs, any ace hand that he could be holding. You're a huge
> > favorite to his range, but you don't want to tango post-flop. Take his
> > chips and move on.
> >
> > After he folds to the push, you're auto-money.
>
> Well in this particular hand when you push and he insta calls, you're
> auto-rail.

Results oriented. Big fucking deal. You have to play these. You'll get
insta called with a lot of other hands besides AA. Whatever, I tried.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:22:25
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:17 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:12 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 2:09 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
> >
> > > You don't want to take this to the flop. You want to take away the AK,
> > > AQ, AJ, Axs, any ace hand that he could be holding. You're a huge
> > > favorite to his range, but you don't want to tango post-flop. Take his
> > > chips and move on.
> > >
> > > After he folds to the push, you're auto-money.
> >
> > Well in this particular hand when you push and he insta calls, you're
> > auto-rail.
>
> Results oriented. Big fucking deal. You have to play these. You'll get
> insta called with a lot of other hands besides AA. Whatever, I tried.

And what is your equity when you get called by a range of AJ-AK and TT+?
What about your equity if you fold?

Farson
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:28:24
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:22 PM, FellKnight wrote:

> And what is your equity when you get called by a range of AJ-AK and TT+?
> What about your equity if you fold?

Tough to say, the HH is missing 91 chips.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:33:49
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:28 PM, GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 3:22 PM, FellKnight wrote:
>
> > And what is your equity when you get called by a range of AJ-AK and TT+?
> > What about your equity if you fold?
>
> Tough to say, the HH is missing 91 chips.

I posted the blinds below, but it is missing 1 chip. The original format
had 2 decimal places after each number and I removed all but the blinds
(oops). Unfortunately I didn't realize that 2 people had half a chip each.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:45:44
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:33 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:28 PM, GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 3:22 PM, FellKnight wrote:
> >
> > > And what is your equity when you get called by a range of AJ-AK and TT+?
> > > What about your equity if you fold?
> >
> > Tough to say, the HH is missing 91 chips.
>
> I posted the blinds below, but it is missing 1 chip. The original format
> had 2 decimal places after each number and I removed all but the blinds
> (oops). Unfortunately I didn't realize that 2 people had half a chip each.

Yeah, I figured that, I'm busting chops.

Anyway, I had it all written out and just lost it and am not retyping it,
but basically if the Villian is re-raising ATC, it's a shove. Else
folding as a higher equity. (folding is about 18.9% of the prize pool,
winning a push leads to about 19.7%, getting a fold is about 19.1%)

You all can have your own arguments over whether or not the Villian is
aware enough to challenge the bigger stack every time.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:03:16
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 1:28 PM, johnny_t wrote:
>
> > Raider Fan wrote:
> >
> > > Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's no
> > > fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of pussies
I've
> > > ever seen.
> >
> > What's your goal, to double-plus win? You did see that this is double
> > or nothing SNG right? (Regular SNG, there is TON'S more validity to a
> > push here). A Call by this player is a disaster mathematically.
>
> You guys must not have played many of these. You're not in the money with
> 4,000 chips. They play tight as a drum. There's a big range for the
> min-raise from villain. Call is terrible. If he has AK, AQ, AJ, Axs
> (which are all in his range), you're giving him a free draw on the flop.
> Push here and he'll fold.

They play tight as a drum but the 2nd big stack is re-raising you?

Farson
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 16:26:04
From: eleaticus
Subject: Re: SNG question

"FellKnight" <jordandevenport@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:4pvs26xp14.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 31 2008 2:59 PM, Raider Fan wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 1:28 PM, johnny_t wrote:
> >
> > > Raider Fan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's
no
> > > > fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of
pussies
> I've
> > > > ever seen.
> > >
> > > What's your goal, to double-plus win? You did see that this is double
> > > or nothing SNG right? (Regular SNG, there is TON'S more validity to a
> > > push here). A Call by this player is a disaster mathematically.
> >
> > You guys must not have played many of these. You're not in the money
with
> > 4,000 chips. They play tight as a drum. There's a big range for the
> > min-raise from villain. Call is terrible. If he has AK, AQ, AJ, Axs
> > (which are all in his range), you're giving him a free draw on the flop.
> > Push here and he'll fold.
>
> They play tight as a drum but the 2nd big stack is re-raising you?

With 4100, yo call that a raise?




    
Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:01:56
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: SNG question
> You guys must not have played many of these. You're not in the money with
> 4,000 chips. They play tight as a drum. There's a big range for the
> min-raise from villain. Call is terrible. If he has AK, AQ, AJ, Axs
> (which are all in his range), you're giving him a free draw on the flop.
> Push here and he'll fold.

Unless he has AA.

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:50:46
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: SNG question
> If you flat call you are set mining.

So I have never played a DON before. But WTF do people even sit at the
table at this point? You fold KK, but STILL sit at the computer?

Sit out the next hand and walk the fuck away! (Not swearing at you)

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:02:08
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:50 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:

> Sit out the next hand and walk the fuck away! (Not swearing at you)

If you sit out you are giving up your blinds for free. Short stacks will
just auto jam you and stay alive that way. I've seen situations where,
even though against the rules, the players will actually say "hey this guy
is sitting out let's take his chips and bust him".

Sitting out is bad. Raising here is fine to open, and you are obviously
calling any all-in, EXCEPT from the only stack who can hurt you.

My personal thoughts on this hand are to re-raise to 1000 and fold to a
push. There's a chance he's on any pair or something like AT/AJ and will
fold to a re-raise. If he pushes you have to expect him to have AA a
large % of the time, and it just doesn't make sense to get involved due to
the structure of the SNG.

---
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xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:57:13
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:50 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:

> > If you flat call you are set mining.
>
> So I have never played a DON before. But WTF do people even sit at the
> table at this point? You fold KK, but STILL sit at the computer?
>
> Sit out the next hand and walk the fuck away! (Not swearing at you)
>
> ========================================
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> ========
> BOOM byae
> John

I've played in about 10-15 of these. I've failed to cash just once. This
is at the $10 level, though.

I think a good long term expectation should be anywhere from 60-65%.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:08:45
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:49 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:41 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> > a re-creation of the hand history:
> >
> > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> >
> > Villain has the button
> > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> >
> > 1 fold
> > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > 2 folds
> > Villain re-raises to 300
> > 2 folds
> >
> > What should the hero do here and why?
>
> Push. He'll fold or show you AK or a smaller pocket pair. There's no
> fucking way you give up KK here. RGP is the biggest bunch of pussies I've
> ever seen.

That's the worst answer possible. It's a fold. Sit out. Win.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:08:00
From: alan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> a re-creation of the hand history:
>
> Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
>
> Villain has the button
> Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
>
> 1 fold
> Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> 2 folds
> Villain re-raises to 300
> 2 folds
>
> What should the hero do here and why?

Fold. He should have folded pre-flop. He should be sitting out. The only
chance he has of losing is by playing a hand.


Alan

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:01:19
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:08 PM, alan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> > a re-creation of the hand history:
> >
> > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> >
> > Villain has the button
> > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> >
> > 1 fold
> > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > 2 folds
> > Villain re-raises to 300
> > 2 folds
> >
> > What should the hero do here and why?
>
> Fold. He should have folded pre-flop. He should be sitting out. The only
> chance he has of losing is by playing a hand.
>
>
> Alan

That seems to be awfully kind to the player in the BB with 12BBs.

Fell
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:15:46
From: charrison100
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:08 PM, alan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> > a re-creation of the hand history:
> >
> > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> >
> > Villain has the button
> > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> >
> > 1 fold
> > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > 2 folds
> > Villain re-raises to 300
> > 2 folds
> >
> > What should the hero do here and why?
>
> Fold. He should have folded pre-flop. He should be sitting out. The only
> chance he has of losing is by playing a hand.
>
>
> Alan

not playing a bad hand but playing a hand poorly.

Chris

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:53:21
From: charrison100
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> a re-creation of the hand history:
>
> Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
>
> Villain has the button
> Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
>
> 1 fold
> Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> 2 folds
> Villain re-raises to 300
> 2 folds
>
> What should the hero do here and why?
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

I go with the flat call. No reason to get into a pissing battle with the
other big stack.

Chris

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:08:22
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 11:53 AM, charrison100 wrote:

> I go with the flat call. No reason to get into a pissing battle with the
> other big stack.

Say the flop is J72 rainbow, action on you. Now what?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:10:16
From: charrison100
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:08 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:53 AM, charrison100 wrote:
>
> > I go with the flat call. No reason to get into a pissing battle with the
> > other big stack.
>
> Say the flop is J72 rainbow, action on you. Now what?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Check, Fold. No Set No Bet.

A double or nothing it is not worth blowing a chip lead when there are
only 7 left and 4 are at or under starting stacks.

Chris

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:14:34
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:10 PM, charrison100 wrote:

>
> A double or nothing it is not worth blowing a chip lead when there are
> only 7 left and 4 are at or under starting stacks.

Another country heard from that doesn't play these. The short stacks get
very aggressive (as they should) and push. 4K won't weather the storm,
especially if you can lay down KK. Jesus.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:21:25
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:14 PM, Raider Fan wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:10 PM, charrison100 wrote:
>
> >
> > A double or nothing it is not worth blowing a chip lead when there are
> > only 7 left and 4 are at or under starting stacks.
>
> Another country heard from that doesn't play these. The short stacks get
> very aggressive (as they should) and push. 4K won't weather the storm,
> especially if you can lay down KK. Jesus.

Who the hell is suggesting folding KK to a shorty? (Other than CincyKid
of course)

Fell
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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:11:57
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:10 PM, charrison100 wrote:

> Check, Fold. No Set No Bet.
>
> A double or nothing it is not worth blowing a chip lead when there are
> only 7 left and 4 are at or under starting stacks.

What if the flop is AK2?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 20:17:04
From: charrison100
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 3:11 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 2:10 PM, charrison100 wrote:
>
> > Check, Fold. No Set No Bet.
> >
> > A double or nothing it is not worth blowing a chip lead when there are
> > only 7 left and 4 are at or under starting stacks.
>
> What if the flop is AK2?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Gobble - fold to push.

my turn k98 suited?

Chris

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:26:19
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: SNG question
Check fold
On Dec 31 2008 2:08 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 11:53 AM, charrison100 wrote:
>
> > I go with the flat call. No reason to get into a pissing battle with the
> > other big stack.
>
> Say the flop is J72 rainbow, action on you. Now what?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:00:14
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:26 PM, gtech1 wrote:

> Check fold

LMFAO! Pussy.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 09:50:48
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> a re-creation of the hand history:
>
> Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
>
> Villain has the button
> Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
>
> 1 fold
> Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> 2 folds
> Villain re-raises to 300
> 2 folds
>
> What should the hero do here and why?
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio

Fold and click on "sit out." You win.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:09:47
From: NotACmputr
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:50 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> > a re-creation of the hand history:
> >
> > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> >
> > Villain has the button
> > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> >
> > 1 fold
> > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > 2 folds
> > Villain re-raises to 300
> > 2 folds
> >
> > What should the hero do here and why?
> > ---
> > Morphy
> > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
>
> Fold and click on "sit out." You win.

There's no way you "sit out". You probably don't play a hand for a while
unless there's a good reason (you're in BB for 200, stack of 400 moves
in), but you don't sit out and make it easier for medium stacks to shove
on your blind. You sit in, "debate" for a few seconds every time preflop
before you fold, and wait to cash.

And on this hand, I raise preflop and fold if the other big stack ever
comes over the top of me. The people who don't are the people who make
these SnG's profitable.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 12:02:46
From: Raider Fan
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:09 PM, NotACmputr wrote:

>
> And on this hand, I raise preflop and fold if the other big stack ever
> comes over the top of me. The people who don't are the people who make
> these SnG's profitable.

Pussy! You haven't played many of these. The big stack got the big stack
playing hands other than AA. He doesn't have AA now.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:24:20
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: SNG question
If you're going to fold now you should've just folded the Kings to start
with. Getting 5-1 on the 120 chip call, you shouldn't fold even if
Villian shows you Aces. You can call 120 more and then click on "sit out"
if the flop doesn't hit you perfectly.
On Dec 31 2008 12:50 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the top
> > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> > a re-creation of the hand history:
> >
> > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> >
> > Villain has the button
> > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> >
> > 1 fold
> > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > 2 folds
> > Villain re-raises to 300
> > 2 folds
> >
> > What should the hero do here and why?
> > ---
> > Morphy
> > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
>
> Fold and click on "sit out." You win.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 10:29:24
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:24 PM, gtech1 wrote:

> If you're going to fold now you should've just folded the Kings to start
> with. Getting 5-1 on the 120 chip call, you shouldn't fold even if
> Villian shows you Aces. You can call 120 more and then click on "sit out"
> if the flop doesn't hit you perfectly.

Wrong. You fold and click on sit out. There is no other answer to this
question. Any other response is wrong. Period.


> On Dec 31 2008 12:50 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> >
> > > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the
top
> > > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of course).
> > > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that, here's
> > > a re-creation of the hand history:
> > >
> > > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> > >
> > > Villain has the button
> > > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> > >
> > > 1 fold
> > > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > > 2 folds
> > > Villain re-raises to 300
> > > 2 folds
> > >
> > > What should the hero do here and why?
> > > ---
> > > Morphy
> > > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
> >
> > Fold and click on "sit out." You win.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 22:27:17
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 1:29 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 1:24 PM, gtech1 wrote:
>
> > If you're going to fold now you should've just folded the Kings to start
> > with. Getting 5-1 on the 120 chip call, you shouldn't fold even if
> > Villian shows you Aces. You can call 120 more and then click on "sit out"
> > if the flop doesn't hit you perfectly.
>
> Wrong. You fold and click on sit out. There is no other answer to this
> question. Any other response is wrong. Period.

You should never sit out, just fold, sitting out encourages others to play
well which is not in your best interest.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:25:05
From: gtech1
Subject: Re: SNG question
Why do you keep responding to posts this way? What's the point of
responding at all? This doesn't add anything to what you already said.
On Dec 31 2008 1:29 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Dec 31 2008 1:24 PM, gtech1 wrote:
>
> > If you're going to fold now you should've just folded the Kings to start
> > with. Getting 5-1 on the 120 chip call, you shouldn't fold even if
> > Villian shows you Aces. You can call 120 more and then click on "sit out"
> > if the flop doesn't hit you perfectly.
>
> Wrong. You fold and click on sit out. There is no other answer to this
> question. Any other response is wrong. Period.
>
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 12:50 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a friend.
> > > > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and the
> top
> > > > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of
course).
> > > > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that,
here's
> > > > a re-creation of the hand history:
> > > >
> > > > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > > > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > > > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > > > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > > > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > > > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > > > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> > > >
> > > > Villain has the button
> > > > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > > > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> > > >
> > > > 1 fold
> > > > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > > > 2 folds
> > > > Villain re-raises to 300
> > > > 2 folds
> > > >
> > > > What should the hero do here and why?
> > > > ---
> > > > Morphy
> > > > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > > > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > > > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
> > >
> > > Fold and click on "sit out." You win.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:26:40
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:25 PM, gtech1 wrote:

> Why do you keep responding to posts this way? What's the point of
> responding at all? This doesn't add anything to what you already said.

Because something this freaking elementary bugs the living shit out of me
and I feel compelled to respond to each and every idiotic response.

> On Dec 31 2008 1:29 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008 1:24 PM, gtech1 wrote:
> >
> > > If you're going to fold now you should've just folded the Kings to start
> > > with. Getting 5-1 on the 120 chip call, you shouldn't fold even if
> > > Villian shows you Aces. You can call 120 more and then click on "sit
out"
> > > if the flop doesn't hit you perfectly.
> >
> > Wrong. You fold and click on sit out. There is no other answer to this
> > question. Any other response is wrong. Period.
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 31 2008 12:50 PM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 31 2008 12:41 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is not something I played, just something sent over by a
friend.
> > > > > This is a double or nothing SNG, meaning there are 10 entrants and
the
> > top
> > > > > 5 all get the same prize, double their entry fee (minus rake of
> course).
> > > > > Blinds are standard, and starting stacks are 1500. Based on that,
> here's
> > > > > a re-creation of the hand history:
> > > > >
> > > > > Villain sitting in seat 1 with 4150
> > > > > Player 2 sitting in seat 3 with 1480
> > > > > Player 3 sitting in seat 4 with 710
> > > > > Player 4 sitting in seat 6 with 1355
> > > > > Hero sitting in seat 7 with 4302
> > > > > Player 5 sitting in seat 9 with 1382
> > > > > Player 6 sitting in seat 10 with 1530
> > > > >
> > > > > Villain has the button
> > > > > Player 2 posted the small blind - 30.00
> > > > > Player 3 posted the big blind - 60.00
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 fold
> > > > > Hero with Kh Kd raises to 180
> > > > > 2 folds
> > > > > Villain re-raises to 300
> > > > > 2 folds
> > > > >
> > > > > What should the hero do here and why?
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Morphy
> > > > > xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> > > > > http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
> > > > > "SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
> > > >
> > > > Fold and click on "sit out." You win.

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:18:48
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: SNG question
> Wrong. You fold and click on sit out. There is no other answer to this
> question. Any other response is wrong. Period.

lol

Why are you trying to sound like me?

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

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Date: 31 Dec 2008 11:23:35
From: CincinnatiKid
Subject: Re: SNG question
On Dec 31 2008 2:18 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:

> > Wrong. You fold and click on sit out. There is no other answer to this
> > question. Any other response is wrong. Period.
>
> lol
>
> Why are you trying to sound like me?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

This is such a remedial question it's not even funny.

You fold and click on"sit out" and go take a shit or something. The
tourney will be over in less than 5 minutes at this point.


> ========================================
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> ========
> BOOM byae
> John

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