Refreshing change

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Date: 10 Feb 2009 11:09:47
From: MZB
Subject: Refreshing change

Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows some
intelligence.

Mel

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:17:21
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:

> Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows some
> intelligence.
>
> Mel

Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's going
to be a long 8 years!!!!!

____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 11 Feb 2009 22:14:12
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11, 7:07=A0am, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Feb 11, 1:01=A0am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > <...>
>
> > >> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
>
> > > Who the fuck is Mason? =A0What does he want me to lie about?
>
> > Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? =A0What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is th=
at?

Islamic, means goat fucker

Date: 14 Feb 2009 19:34:14
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11 2009 10:14 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:

> On Feb 11, 7:07 am, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 1:01 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > >news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > <...>
> >
> > > >> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
> >
> > > > Who the fuck is Mason? What does he want me to lie about?
> >
> > > Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is that?
>
> Islamic, means goat fucker

I thought that is what Clave meant.

Brew
--
Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

_____________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

Date: 15 Feb 2009 04:49:00
From: Beldin the Sorcerer
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"brewmaster" <a163b@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:m2fk66x327.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Feb 11 2009 10:14 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>
>> On Feb 11, 7:07 am, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 1:01 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > >news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>> > > On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > <...>
>> >
>> > > >> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
>> >
>> > > > Who the fuck is Mason? What does he want me to lie about?
>> >
>> > > Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is
>> > > that?
>>
>> Islamic, means goat fucker
>
> I thought that is what Clave meant.
Naw, he already said he was half a pair of claves.
(clah-veys)
You hold one in your hand as a striker, and the other rests in your hand,
between palm and closed knuckles.
http://www.percussionmusic.us/instruments/claves.html

It's a latin percussion instrament, mostly.

Not kick ass, like the drum set.

As a drummer, it's probably about Jimbo's speed.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 21:56:42
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 14 2009 8:49 PM, Beldin the Sorcerer wrote:

> "brewmaster" <a163b@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:m2fk66x327.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Feb 11 2009 10:14 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 11, 7:07 am, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > On Feb 11, 1:01 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >
>news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> >> > > On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > <...>
> >> >
> >> > > >> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
> >> >
> >> > > > Who the fuck is Mason? What does he want me to lie about?
> >> >
> >> > > Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is
> >> > > that?
> >>
> >> Islamic, means goat fucker
> >
> > I thought that is what Clave meant.
> Naw, he already said he was half a pair of claves.
> (clah-veys)
> You hold one in your hand as a striker, and the other rests in your hand,
> between palm and closed knuckles.
> http://www.percussionmusic.us/instruments/claves.html
>
> It's a latin percussion instrament, mostly.
>
> Not kick ass, like the drum set.
>
> As a drummer, it's probably about Jimbo's speed.

This is about Clave too, right?

http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/shooting-off-f1-guy-fucked-to-death-by-a-horse-t56450.html

Brew
--
Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

_____________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 15 Feb 2009 08:37:50
From: Beldin the Sorcerer
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"brewmaster" <a163b@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:qdnk66xr08.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Feb 14 2009 8:49 PM, Beldin the Sorcerer wrote:
>
>> "brewmaster" <a163b@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:m2fk66x327.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> > On Feb 11 2009 10:14 PM, Porsche_Dan wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Feb 11, 7:07 am, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Feb 11, 1:01 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> >
>>news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > > On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > <...>
>> >> >
>> >> > > >> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
>> >> >
>> >> > > > Who the fuck is Mason? What does he want me to lie about?
>> >> >
>> >> > > Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is
>> >> > > that?
>> >>
>> >> Islamic, means goat fucker
>> >
>> > I thought that is what Clave meant.
>> Naw, he already said he was half a pair of claves.
>> (clah-veys)
>> You hold one in your hand as a striker, and the other rests in your hand,
>> between palm and closed knuckles.
>> http://www.percussionmusic.us/instruments/claves.html
>>
>> It's a latin percussion instrament, mostly.
>>
>> Not kick ass, like the drum set.
>>
>> As a drummer, it's probably about Jimbo's speed.
>
> This is about Clave too, right?
>
> http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/shooting-off-f1-guy-fucked-to-death-by-a-horse-t56450.html
>
I DON'T know.

Beastiality is not my forte.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 21:56:57
From: Clave
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Date: 11 Feb 2009 07:07:16
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11, 1:01=A0am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com >
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com>
> wrote:
>
> <...>
>
> >> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
>
> > Who the fuck is Mason? =A0What does he want me to lie about?
>
> Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? =A0What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is that=
?
>
> Jim

What makes you think it is a nym?

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:56:43
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11, 12:35=A0am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com >
wrote:
> "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Gq6dnQQOH71M7Q_UnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@cablespeedmi.com...
>
> > "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:2c7b3cb0-e578-43eb-a35c-18a9bfa66284@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com..=
.
>
> > <...>
>
> >> Being unqualified was there to see long before the election. =A020 day=
s
> >> of floundering is easy to see too. =A0Hell the floundering was happeni=
ng
> >> before he took the oath. =A0The long line of Clinton retreads showed h=
e
> >> was grasping for a life preserver.
>
> > I don't really LOL much, but you got me there.
>
> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
>
> FWIW,
> Jim

Who the fuck is Mason? What does he want me to lie about?

Date: 10 Feb 2009 23:01:44
From: Clave
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:d00a10d2-bdef-4baf-acfd-437717a07764@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 11, 12:35 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com >
wrote:

<... >

>> Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar
>
> Who the fuck is Mason? What does he want me to lie about?

Who the fuck is Alim Nassor? What kind of fucking lame-ass nym is that?

Jim

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:33:57
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11, 12:31=A0am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com >
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2c7b3cb0-e578-43eb-a35c-18a9bfa66284@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> <...>
>
> > Being unqualified was there to see long before the election. =A020 days
> > of floundering is easy to see too. =A0Hell the floundering was happenin=
g
> > before he took the oath. =A0The long line of Clinton retreads showed he
> > was grasping for a life preserver.
>
> I don't really LOL much, but you got me there.
>
> Jim

It's a good thing to try to see humor in the things that depress you.

Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:35:31
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:b71d9a88-b942-4f0b-a5bd-4422f6692b4d@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

>It's a good thing to try to see humor in the things that depress you.

Yeah, the 90's under Clinton were so depressing. <snicker >

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:39:33
From: Clave
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:b71d9a88-b942-4f0b-a5bd-4422f6692b4d@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 11, 12:31 am, "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com >
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2c7b3cb0-e578-43eb-a35c-18a9bfa66284@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> <...>
>
> > > Being unqualified was there to see long before the election. 20 days
> > > of floundering is easy to see too. Hell the floundering was happening
> > > before he took the oath. The long line of Clinton retreads showed he
> > > was grasping for a life preserver.
> >
> > I don't really LOL much, but you got me there.
>
> It's a good thing to try to see humor in the things that depress you.

Another LOL -- make up whatever stories help you sleep, Pookie.

Jim

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:29:53
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11, 12:25=A0am, "James L. Hankins" <jhanki...@cox.net > wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d16a3fd1-97cc-4305-9b36-fa521cba0178@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
> >floundering. =A0What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
> >unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? =A0One unfinished term
> >in the US Senate. =A090% of which was spent running for President. =A0Ev=
en
> >the liberal press is seeing it.
>
> Wow. =A0You can tell all that about President Obama after he's been on th=
e job
> for 20 whole days?! =A0Maybe you should be President.

Being unqualified was there to see long before the election. 20 days
of floundering is easy to see too. Hell the floundering was happening
before he took the oath. The long line of Clinton retreads showed he
was grasping for a life preserver.

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:31:42
From: Clave
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:2c7b3cb0-e578-43eb-a35c-18a9bfa66284@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

<... >

> Being unqualified was there to see long before the election. 20 days
> of floundering is easy to see too. Hell the floundering was happening
> before he took the oath. The long line of Clinton retreads showed he
> was grasping for a life preserver.

I don't really LOL much, but you got me there.

Jim

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:35:23
From: Clave
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDammit@cablespeed.com > wrote in message
news:Gq6dnQQOH71M7Q_UnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@cablespeedmi.com...
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2c7b3cb0-e578-43eb-a35c-18a9bfa66284@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> <...>
>
>> Being unqualified was there to see long before the election. 20 days
>> of floundering is easy to see too. Hell the floundering was happening
>> before he took the oath. The long line of Clinton retreads showed he
>> was grasping for a life preserver.
>
> I don't really LOL much, but you got me there.

Alim Nassor -- Mason's Liar

FWIW,
Jim

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:18:29
From: Alim Nassor
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11, 12:17=A0am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows =
some
> > intelligence.
>
> > Mel
>
> Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
> for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
> deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's goin=
g
> to be a long 8 years!!!!!
>
> ____________________________________________________________________=A0
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
the liberal press is seeing it.

Date: 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22
From: MZB
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?

You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
President in history fuck up our country royally.

As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.

Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?

Mel
"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:d16a3fd1-97cc-4305-9b36-fa521cba0178@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 11, 12:17 am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
> > some
> > intelligence.
>
> > Mel
>
> Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
> for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
> deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's going
> to be a long 8 years!!!!!
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
the liberal press is seeing it.

Date: 12 Feb 2009 19:07:52
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22 -0500, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net >
wrote:

>Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>
>You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
>President in history fuck up our country royally.
>
>As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>
>Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>
>Mel

Hold on to that thought, MZ.

If Obama continues to be as inept in the next few years as he has
shown himself to be in the last few weeks, you will have to resort to
the ButBush mantra a whole lot in the coming years.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 22:28:46
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

FL Turbo, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009 7:07
PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22 -0500, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>>
>> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
>> President in history fuck up our country royally.
>>
>> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>>
>> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>
>> Mel
>
> Hold on to that thought, MZ.
>
> If Obama continues to be as inept in the next few years as he has
> shown himself to be in the last few weeks, you will have to resort to
> the ButBush mantra a whole lot in the coming years.

I agree with that. Gee, before the "butBush", wasn't there a "but...."
something else?

Cheers.

Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:08:20
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:28:46 -0600, "Kyle T. Jones"
<KBfoMe@realdomain.net > wrote:

>FL Turbo, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009 7:07
>PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22 -0500, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>>>
>>> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
>>> President in history fuck up our country royally.
>>>
>>> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>>>
>>> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>>
>>> Mel
>>
>> Hold on to that thought, MZ.
>>
>> If Obama continues to be as inept in the next few years as he has
>> shown himself to be in the last few weeks, you will have to resort to
>> the ButBush mantra a whole lot in the coming years.
>
>I agree with that. Gee, before the "butBush", wasn't there a "but...."
>something else?
>
Yes, there certainly was.
It worked quite well during Bush's first term.
After that, not so much.

It remains to be seen how long the ButBush mantra will serve the Obama
ass-lickers.

>Cheers.

Cheerios.

Date: 16 Feb 2009 09:49:38
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com > wrote in message
news:c0fgp4lk6rsh1omv96q4huvh6hjp9cbve3@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:28:46 -0600, "Kyle T. Jones"
> <KBfoMe@realdomain.net> wrote:
>
>>FL Turbo, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009 7:07
>>PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22 -0500, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>>>>
>>>> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the
>>>> worst
>>>> President in history fuck up our country royally.
>>>>
>>>> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>>>>
>>>> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>>>
>>>> Mel
>>>
>>> Hold on to that thought, MZ.
>>>
>>> If Obama continues to be as inept in the next few years as he has
>>> shown himself to be in the last few weeks, you will have to resort to
>>> the ButBush mantra a whole lot in the coming years.
>>
>>I agree with that. Gee, before the "butBush", wasn't there a "but...."
>>something else?
>>
> Yes, there certainly was.
> It worked quite well during Bush's first term.
> After that, not so much.
>
> It remains to be seen how long the ButBush mantra will serve the Obama
> ass-lickers.

Not very long, for two reasons. First, the American people are angry and
scared about the economy. They know the Republicans wanted a smaller
spending bill that focused exclusively on the economy and job creation in
the next twelve months. Obama and the Demcorats unilaterally pushed through
their massive liberal pork barrel spending bill which will have minimal
impact on jobs or the economy in 2009. Second, Obama's promises of "change"
and "new faces in Washington" were broken when he packed his administration
with old time Clinton political hacks, crooks and tax cheats. Obama built
up huge expectations of change and improvement during his two years of
campaign promises and now the American people expect him to deliver. He can
get by with blaming Bush for another couple of months, but his approval
rating has already dropped significantly.

Irish Mike

Date: 15 Feb 2009 13:29:55
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

FL Turbo, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/15/2009 10:08
AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:28:46 -0600, "Kyle T. Jones"
> <KBfoMe@realdomain.net> wrote:
>
>> FL Turbo, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009 7:07
>> PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22 -0500, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>>>>
>>>> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
>>>> President in history fuck up our country royally.
>>>>
>>>> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>>>>
>>>> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>>>
>>>> Mel
>>> Hold on to that thought, MZ.
>>>
>>> If Obama continues to be as inept in the next few years as he has
>>> shown himself to be in the last few weeks, you will have to resort to
>>> the ButBush mantra a whole lot in the coming years.
>> I agree with that. Gee, before the "butBush", wasn't there a "but...."
>> something else?
>>
> Yes, there certainly was.
> It worked quite well during Bush's first term.
> After that, not so much.
>
> It remains to be seen how long the ButBush mantra will serve the Obama
> ass-lickers.
>

It managed to serve the Bush ass-lickers for nearly a decade. Hell,
I've seen the ol' ButClinton just this week - it still serves them.

Reap what you sow, and cheerios!

Date: 13 Feb 2009 15:59:38
From: MZB
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Yes--if Obama is as inept as Bush (or even close) we are doomed!

Mel
"FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com > wrote in message
news:emh9p49qapcg5ff9i7h8h894eaplrbeg25@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:22 -0500, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>>
>>You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
>>President in history fuck up our country royally.
>>
>>As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>>
>>Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>
>>Mel
>
> Hold on to that thought, MZ.
>
> If Obama continues to be as inept in the next few years as he has
> shown himself to be in the last few weeks, you will have to resort to
> the ButBush mantra a whole lot in the coming years.

Date: 12 Feb 2009 13:53:08
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>
> Mel

Just so we all are clear here. The president does not deserve ALL the
blame for failure and nor does he deserve ALL the praise when things are
good. That is why I laugh when you guys talk about the presidents as if
what they do in office impacts ANYTHING* until well after they are gone.

lol

Bush Sr was a product of Reagan
Clinton was a product of Sr
Jr was a product of Clinton
and
Obama WILL be a product of Jr.

*Is a slight exaggeration, but it makes my point better.

==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK

______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

Date: 14 Feb 2009 22:27:52
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

John_Brian_K, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009
3:53 PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on
Usenet:
>> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>
>> Mel
>
> Just so we all are clear here. The president does not deserve ALL the
> blame for failure and nor does he deserve ALL the praise when things are
> good. That is why I laugh when you guys talk about the presidents as if
> what they do in office impacts ANYTHING* until well after they are gone.
>
> lol
>
> Bush Sr was a product of Reagan
> Clinton was a product of Sr
> Jr was a product of Clinton
> and
> Obama WILL be a product of Jr.
>
> *Is a slight exaggeration, but it makes my point better.
>

The problem is that the Republicans have absolutely *dominated* the
Federal government over the last couple decades. Freakin' run it like
it was their own personal treasure chest, is what they've done.

They've run the Presidency for 20 of the last 28 years.

They had a long standing (12-14 years) majority in Congress that ended
two years ago.

They've appointed seven of the nine sitting justices.

There are only three branches of government.

They refuse to own the current state of the country. It takes a long
time to change something with the enormous momentum of our federal
government. But, according to Irish Mike, because the (D)s won a slim
majority in *one* branch two short years ago, all the blame lies at
their doorstep.

It's time to wake up, folks.

The statistics above are non-debatable. Oops, Joe is gonna come in with
some bullshit platitude about that meaning it's wrong. He won't show
what's wrong, just the bullshit platitude.

Cheers.

Date: 12 Feb 2009 13:06:32
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net > wrote in message
news:c9Zkl.14594$I93.6628@newsfe18.iad...
> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>
> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
> President in history fuck up our country royally.
>
> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>
> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>
> Mel

Here's an inconvenient truth for you Mel. Bush didn't fuck any thing up
without the support of the Democrat party and that includes the decision to
go to war with Iraq and all the money he spent. And just in case you
haven't kept up with current events, the Democrats have controlled Congress
and chaired all of the banking and finance committees for the past two
years. So if you really want to talk about fuck-ups I suggest you start
with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

Irish Mike

> "Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:d16a3fd1-97cc-4305-9b36-fa521cba0178@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 12:17 am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>>
>> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
>> > some
>> > intelligence.
>>
>> > Mel
>>
>> Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
>> for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
>> deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's
>> going
>> to be a long 8 years!!!!!
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com
>
> It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
> floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
> unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
> in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
> the liberal press is seeing it.
>

Date: 14 Feb 2009 22:17:55
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Irish Mike, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009
12:06 PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on
Usenet:
> "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
> news:c9Zkl.14594$I93.6628@newsfe18.iad...
>> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
>>
>> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the worst
>> President in history fuck up our country royally.
>>
>> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
>>
>> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
>>
>> Mel
>
> Here's an inconvenient truth for you Mel. Bush didn't fuck any thing up
> without the support of the Democrat party and that includes the decision to
> go to war with Iraq and all the money he spent. And just in case you
> haven't kept up with current events, the Democrats have controlled Congress
> and chaired all of the banking and finance committees for the past two
> years. So if you really want to talk about fuck-ups I suggest you start
> with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
>
> Irish Mike
>

Four or five years ago, Mike and his ilk had one thing to point to as a
great economic indicator:

Record US home ownership.

Don't believe me? Look it up.

Cheers.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 21:47:20
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 14 2009 11:17 PM, Kyle T. Jones wrote:

> Irish Mike, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/12/2009
> 12:06 PM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on
> Usenet:
> > "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
> > news:c9Zkl.14594$I93.6628@newsfe18.iad...
> >> Wow-- we have the most unqualified man to ever sit in this office?
> >>
> >> You can actually say that with a straight face after we have had the
worst
> >> President in history fuck up our country royally.
> >>
> >> As I said, it is refreshing to see one of intelligence at the helm.
> >>
> >> Now the question remains: Is Bush's fuck-up beyond repair?
> >>
> >> Mel
> >
> > Here's an inconvenient truth for you Mel. Bush didn't fuck any thing up
> > without the support of the Democrat party and that includes the decision
to
> > go to war with Iraq and all the money he spent. And just in case you
> > haven't kept up with current events, the Democrats have controlled
Congress
> > and chaired all of the banking and finance committees for the past two
> > years. So if you really want to talk about fuck-ups I suggest you start
> > with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
> >
> > Irish Mike
> >
>
> Four or five years ago, Mike and his ilk had one thing to point to as a
> great economic indicator:
>
> Record US home ownership.
>

They only tried to take political advantage of that because of bad
intelligence reports caused by Jimmy Carter.

________________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 12 Feb 2009 21:05:55
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Irish Mike" <mjostar@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:QyZkl.22693$ZP4.8125@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...

>that includes the decision to go to war with Iraq and all the money he
>spent.

Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one but him
had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other congress
critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and blather on about
this and that, but on that decision, there was only one decider.

Date: 13 Feb 2009 07:57:12
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"James L. Hankins"

>>that includes the decision to go to war with Iraq and all the money he
>>spent.
>
> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one but
> him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other congress
> critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and blather on about
> this and that, but on that decision, there was only one decider.

Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the president
can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited supply of funds
... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone knows where the
purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a dictator/decider ... he
had all the power ... ... ...

Date: 14 Feb 2009 22:20:18
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

da pickle, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/13/2009 7:57
AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> "James L. Hankins"
>
>>> that includes the decision to go to war with Iraq and all the money he
>>> spent.
>> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one but
>> him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other congress
>> critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and blather on about
>> this and that, but on that decision, there was only one decider.
>
> Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the president
> can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited supply of funds
> ... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone knows where the
> purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a dictator/decider ... he
> had all the power ... ... ...
>
>

First of all, lest we forget, Congress was still firmly under (R)
control at the time.

Second of all (and this is conjecture), you woulda been among the first
to crucify any (D) congressperson who presumed to slash our military's
budget. In fact, I bet I can pull up some sharp criticism you've voiced
about Clinton dramatically cutting military size and spending.

Dare me? Double doggy dare?

Cheers.

Date: 13 Feb 2009 12:44:03
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:DaednZ1azKKh4QjURVn_vwA@giganews.com...
> "James L. Hankins"
>
>>>that includes the decision to go to war with Iraq and all the money he
>>>spent.
>>
>> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one but
>> him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other congress
>> critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and blather on about
>> this and that, but on that decision, there was only one decider.
>
> Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the president
> can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited supply of funds
> ... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone knows where the
> purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a dictator/decider ... he
> had all the power ... ... ...

That's pretty much right, pickle.

Congress could theoretically cut off funding for the military, leaving our
troops defenseless in a foreign land if that's what you are referring to,
but that doesn't change the fact that no one in Congress could order troops
to the foreign land to begin with. Only one man could do that.

Date: 13 Feb 2009 17:10:59
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"James L. Hankins"

>>> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one but
>>> him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other congress
>>> critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and blather on about
>>> this and that, but on that decision, there was only one decider.
>>
>> Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the
>> president can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited
>> supply of funds ... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone
>> knows where the purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a
>> dictator/decider ... he had all the power ... ... ...
>
> That's pretty much right, pickle.

Oh, good grief.

Date: 13 Feb 2009 17:25:10
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:RKednWdJtICbYwjURVn_vwA@giganews.com...
> "James L. Hankins"
>
>
>>>> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one
>>>> but him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other
>>>> congress critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and
>>>> blather on about this and that, but on that decision, there was only
>>>> one decider.
>>>
>>> Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the
>>> president can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited
>>> supply of funds ... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone
>>> knows where the purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a
>>> dictator/decider ... he had all the power ... ... ...
>>
>> That's pretty much right, pickle.
>
> Oh, good grief.

Good grief yourself. The invasion of Iraq is solely attributable to one
man. I know how you like to avoid absolutes and like to view other entities
as having an effect on the administration of the war in Iraq (like the
Congress), but the President, as commander in chief, is the most direct "but
for" cause of the invasion of Iraq.

It's not debatable. It would not have happened unless President Bush alone
gave the order.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 07:07:38
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"James L. Hankins"

> It's not debatable.

Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 09:23:41
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

da pickle wrote:
> "James L. Hankins"
>
>> It's not debatable.
>
> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.

Yep, "not debatable" is what someone says when he can't defend his
position. What's more, some of these guys are so far behind the curve
that they can't see that the Iraq war has turned out to be a success
after all. It is likely to prove to have been well worth the cost over
the coming decades.

I expect to see some raving rants in reply to this, screaming about the
negatives and ignoring the positives, particularly the value to us and
the world (let alone the Iraqis) of a democracy (even an imperfect
democracy) emerging in that part of the world.

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 14 Feb 2009 22:22:29
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Joe Long, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/14/2009 10:23
AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> da pickle wrote:
>> "James L. Hankins"
>>
>>> It's not debatable.
>> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.
>
> Yep, "not debatable" is what someone says when he can't defend his
> position.

The sun will rise tomorrow morning in the east.

This is "not debatable". Bet me that I can't defend that position.

Just can't step outside the partisan bullshit, can ya Joe (or pickle)?

Cheers.

Date: 15 Feb 2009 00:00:30
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Kyle T. Jones wrote:
> Joe Long, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/14/2009 10:23
> AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>> da pickle wrote:
>>> "James L. Hankins"
>>>
>>>> It's not debatable.
>>> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.
>>
>> Yep, "not debatable" is what someone says when he can't defend his
>> position.
>
> The sun will rise tomorrow morning in the east.
>
> This is "not debatable". Bet me that I can't defend that position.

That's a trivial example of a matter of physics and astronomy, not
politics or economics.

> Just can't step outside the partisan bullshit, can ya Joe (or pickle)?

What was partisan about my statement? Where did I name any party as the
malefactor? The truth is that people from all political stripes use
that dodge.

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 15 Feb 2009 13:26:35
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Joe Long, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/15/2009 1:00
AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> Kyle T. Jones wrote:
>> Joe Long, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/14/2009 10:23
>> AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>>> da pickle wrote:
>>>> "James L. Hankins"
>>>>
>>>>> It's not debatable.
>>>> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.
>>> Yep, "not debatable" is what someone says when he can't defend his
>>> position.
>> The sun will rise tomorrow morning in the east.
>>
>> This is "not debatable". Bet me that I can't defend that position.
>
> That's a trivial example of a matter of physics and astronomy, not
> politics or economics.
>

There are matters of triviality and substance that are not debatable.

Go ahead, I'm sure you can think of a few of each.

Your "not debatable is what someone says when he can't defend his
position" response is, well, an ultra-easy non-response. One could post
it at ver convenience. A better response would be to actually do the
work and show why it is not only debatable, but in error. But you
couldn't do that, right? 'Nuff said.

Cheers.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 20:23:02
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com > wrote in message
news:kNWdneR5dKeSbQvUnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> da pickle wrote:
>> "James L. Hankins"
>>
>>> It's not debatable.
>>
>> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.
>
> Yep, "not debatable" is what someone says when he can't defend his
> position.

The assertion was that Bush, as the President and commander in chief, had
sole authority to order the invastion of Iraq.

You want to defend a contrary position?

Date: 14 Feb 2009 21:53:12
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:23:02 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>
>"Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:kNWdneR5dKeSbQvUnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> da pickle wrote:
>>> "James L. Hankins"

>>>> It's not debatable.

>>> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.

>> Yep, "not debatable" is what someone says when he can't defend his
>> position.

>The assertion was that Bush, as the President and commander in chief, had
>sole authority to order the invastion of Iraq.

>You want to defend a contrary position?

Not to be too contrarian about it, but the Constitution is absolutely
clear about this. The ONLY authority for declaring war is Congress.
Period. The Founders were absolutely clear about this. Part of the
very reason for establishing the United States was to end the cycle of
wars started by absolute executives such as George III, waged at the
expense of the people and for the benefit of the King.

The Constitution clearly grants the power to Congress: "To declare
war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning
captures on land and water." The placement of the war-making power in
the legislative rather than the executive branch was no accident. In
fact, it was considered by the Framers to be one of their primary
accomplishments.

Thomas Jefferson described this as having placed "an effectual check
to the Dog of War by transferring the power of letting him loose from
Executive to Legislative body, from those who are to spend to those
who are to pay."

It is absolutely indisputable that the choice to place the war-making
power in Congress was deliberate and, in fact, was absolutely critical
to the States when they chose to ratify the Constitution. It is a
basic element of our Constitutional democracy that Congress alone has
the power to declare war.

The invasion of Iraq, being a total war waged with the intent of
removing a regime and changing it entirely, was entirely within the
realm of Congressional power, and not executive authority.

The catastrophe which resulted from Congress' abdication of their war
power, and entrusting it to a mentally retarded chimpanzee, is an
empirical proof of the wisdom of our Founders in placing that power
within the power of the legislature, and a slap in the face to the
cowardly Congress which unlawfully abdicated their Constitutional
powers and responsibilities.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 23:57:37
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:

...
> It is absolutely indisputable that the choice to place the war-making
> power in Congress was deliberate and, in fact, was absolutely critical
> to the States when they chose to ratify the Constitution. It is a
> basic element of our Constitutional democracy that Congress alone has
> the power to declare war.

True.

> The invasion of Iraq, being a total war waged with the intent of
> removing a regime and changing it entirely, was entirely within the
> realm of Congressional power, and not executive authority.

Which is why the Administration sought, and received, Congressional
approval for it.

> The catastrophe which resulted from Congress' abdication of their war
> power, and entrusting it to a mentally retarded chimpanzee, is an
> empirical proof of the wisdom of our Founders in placing that power
> within the power of the legislature, and a slap in the face to the
> cowardly Congress which unlawfully abdicated their Constitutional
> powers and responsibilities.

Except, of course, that the Congress did not abdicate their power and
responsibility at all, but exercised it, Constitutionally. The Iraq war
was duly authorized by Congress, with many Democrats (including Hillary
Clinton) voting for it. (Clinton's recent claim that she voted "aye"
expecting Bush to not actually go to war was as ridiculous a spin as it
was transparent.)

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:52:24
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com > wrote in message
news:vfKdnQuWsa18IQrUnZ2dnUVZ_gCWnZ2d@giganews.com...

> Except, of course, that the Congress did not abdicate their power and
> responsibility at all, but exercised it, Constitutionally. The Iraq war
> was duly authorized by Congress, with many Democrats (including Hillary
> Clinton) voting for it. (Clinton's recent claim that she voted "aye"
> expecting Bush to not actually go to war was as ridiculous a spin as it
> was transparent.)

Which member of Congress ordered the troops to Iraq?

Date: 15 Feb 2009 05:17:33
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Joe Long"

> The Iraq war was duly authorized by Congress, with many
> Democrats (including Hillary Clinton) voting for it.

After being lied to; having their security clearances removed, and shown
altered security documents.

Jerry 'n Vegas

Date: 14 Feb 2009 08:42:47
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com > wrote

> What's more, some of these guys are so far behind the curve
> that they can't see that the Iraq war has turned out to
> be a success after all.

Stopping them from attacking us within 15-minutes; which they couldn't do;
with their WMD they didn't have? Establishing a democracy, which still isn't
working? Leaving after the war was over, rather than stay and get blown up
(which is still happening)?

> It is likely to prove to have been well worth
> the cost over the coming decades.

Especially this first decade where the Sunnis are still being slaughtered
along with our soldiers. Odd how the cost is okay when it's somebody else's
relatives.

> I expect to see some raving rants in reply to this, [rant]

You got one part, partially right.

Jerry 'n Vegas

Date: 14 Feb 2009 18:13:34
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Jerry Sturdivant wrote:
> "Joe Long" <nospam@spam.com> wrote
>
>> What's more, some of these guys are so far behind the curve
>> that they can't see that the Iraq war has turned out to
>> be a success after all.
>
> Stopping them from attacking us within 15-minutes; which they couldn't do;
> with their WMD they didn't have? Establishing a democracy, which still isn't
> working? Leaving after the war was over, rather than stay and get blown up
> (which is still happening)?

Just as I predicted.

I said nothing about attacking us within 15 minutes, and neither did the
Administration. That was never a reason for the war. The WMD turned
out to no longer be there, but that was never the sole reason for the
war either. Their democracy IS working (did you even notice the recent
elections?), just imperfectly.

>> It is likely to prove to have been well worth
>> the cost over the coming decades.
>
> Especially this first decade where the Sunnis are still being slaughtered
> along with our soldiers. Odd how the cost is okay when it's somebody else's
> relatives.

Violence is WAY down in Iraq, and for our troops is about down to order
of magnitude that we would lose to accidents back in the U.s.

>> I expect to see some raving rants in reply to this

> You got one part, partially right.

As I said, just as I predicted. Some people are so invested in our
defeat that they can't admit our success.

By the time these folks can't ignore the success any longer, Obama will
have been in office for a while, so they'll credit Obama with it instead
of Bush. Despite all Obama having to do is not blow it, the heavy
lifting having already been done for him.

--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range

Date: 15 Feb 2009 05:11:21
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Joe Long"

>>> What's more, some of these guys are so far behind the
>>> curve that they can't see that the Iraq war has turned out
>>> to be a success after all.

>> Stopping them from attacking us within 15-minutes; which they couldn't
>> do;
>> with their WMD they didn't have? Establishing a democracy, which still
>> isn't
>> working? Leaving after the war was over, rather than stay and get blown
>> up
>> (which is still happening)?

> Just as I predicted.
>
> I said nothing about attacking us within 15 minutes,
> and neither did the Administration.

No, you said the war, 'has turned out to be a success."

> That was never a reason for the war. The WMD
> turned out to no longer be there .

Correction: They weren't there like Bush had stated they were.

> but that was never the sole reason for the war either.

Yea, it was. They had WMD and could attack it us 15-minutes. It was Bush's
preemptive war.

> Their democracy IS working (did you even
> notice the recent elections?), just imperfectly.

No, it's not working. Bush sent Rice and any number of other lackeys;
begging them to include Sunnis. We ended up building fences in their
neighborhoods to keep them apart.

>>> It is likely to prove to have been well worth
>>> the cost over the coming decades.

>> Especially this first decade where the Sunnis are still
>> being slaughtered along with our soldiers. Odd how
>> the cost is okay when it's somebody else's relatives.

> Violence is WAY down in Iraq, and for our troops
> is about down to order of magnitude that we would
>>lose to accidents back in the U.s.

Oh, please! "It okay for thousands of our troops to be blown up because we
have lots of deaths on our highways..."

>>> I expect to see some raving rants in reply to this

>> You got one part, partially right.

> As I said, just as I predicted. Some people are so invested
> in our defeat that they can't admit our success.

Then retreat to the cowardly, LYING position that the person that showed you
wrong wants us to lose. It's not success. We're still there and our troops
are still dying.

> By the time these folks can't ignore the success any longer,

HELLO!? If it were a success, we'd be gone by now, JUST AS BUSH SAID.

> Obama will have been in office for a while, so they'll credit

For what? Losing more troops to a lost cause?

> Despite all Obama having to do is not blow it,

Whoa! Blow what? You said it was won.

Jerry 'n Vegas

Date: 15 Feb 2009 01:01:18
From: Pepe Papon
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:13:34 -0700, Joe Long <nospam@spam.com > wrote:

>> You got one part, partially right.
>
>As I said, just as I predicted.

Does the fact that you predicted disagreement with your post somehow
add validity to your argument?

Date: 14 Feb 2009 08:36:57
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:YI6dnYYFQai7XwvU4p2dnAA@giganews.com...
> "James L. Hankins"
>
>> It's not debatable.
>
> Too many things seem "not debatable" these days.

Or, in the case of Obama's 1,071 page, $787 Billion welfare and entitlement
spending bill, "not readable". Democrats just passed the biggest
stimulus-spending bill in American history and not a single one of them has
read the bill all the way through. Now that is change you can believe in.

Irish Mike

Date: 13 Feb 2009 21:34:41
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:25:10 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>
>"da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:RKednWdJtICbYwjURVn_vwA@giganews.com...
>> "James L. Hankins"
>>
>>
>>>>> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one
>>>>> but him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other
>>>>> congress critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and
>>>>> blather on about this and that, but on that decision, there was only
>>>>> one decider.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the
>>>> president can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited
>>>> supply of funds ... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone
>>>> knows where the purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a
>>>> dictator/decider ... he had all the power ... ... ...
>>>
>>> That's pretty much right, pickle.
>>
>> Oh, good grief.
>
>
>Good grief yourself. The invasion of Iraq is solely attributable to one
>man. I know how you like to avoid absolutes and like to view other entities
>as having an effect on the administration of the war in Iraq (like the
>Congress), but the President, as commander in chief, is the most direct "but
>for" cause of the invasion of Iraq.

>It's not debatable. It would not have happened unless President Bush alone
>gave the order.

It also required the Congress to abdicate their Constitutional
responsibility and duty to hold the sole power to declare war.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 09:55:27
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:34:41 -0500, A Man Beaten by Jacks
<nobody@fool.foo > wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:25:10 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
><jhankins5@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:RKednWdJtICbYwjURVn_vwA@giganews.com...
>>> "James L. Hankins"
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Complete horseshit, Bucko. Bush was the commander in chief. No one
>>>>>> but him had the authority to order the invasion of Iraq. The other
>>>>>> congress critters can grandstand, sign petitions of support, and
>>>>>> blather on about this and that, but on that decision, there was only
>>>>>> one decider.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah ... there is nothing the congress can do ... after all, the
>>>>> president can spend whatever money he wants ... he has an unlimited
>>>>> supply of funds ... nothing the congress can do ... after all, everyone
>>>>> knows where the purse strings are ... ... ... our president was a
>>>>> dictator/decider ... he had all the power ... ... ...
>>>>
>>>> That's pretty much right, pickle.
>>>
>>> Oh, good grief.
>>
>>
>>Good grief yourself. The invasion of Iraq is solely attributable to one
>>man. I know how you like to avoid absolutes and like to view other entities
>>as having an effect on the administration of the war in Iraq (like the
>>Congress), but the President, as commander in chief, is the most direct "but
>>for" cause of the invasion of Iraq.
>
>>It's not debatable. It would not have happened unless President Bush alone
>>gave the order.
>
>It also required the Congress to abdicate their Constitutional
>responsibility and duty to hold the sole power to declare war.

That horse left the barn a long time ago.

I don't think Congress has declared war since the WWII era.
The Korean War wasn't a real war.
It was a "police action".

Congress has long since given up any pretense of following the
Constitution.

They do whatever they want to do, just because they want to do it.

Date: 14 Feb 2009 06:28:57
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

> It also required the Congress to abdicate their Constitutional
> responsibility and duty to hold the sole power to declare war.

After Bush removed their security clearances and lied to them with his 'slam
dunk,' that our country could be attacked with nuclear weapons within
15-minutes. I would vote for it, too.

Jerry 'n Vegas

Date: 12 Feb 2009 13:14:02
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Irish Mike" <mjostar@ameritech.net > wrote

> Bush didn't fuck any thing up without the support of the
> Democrat party and that includes the decision to go to war
> with Iraq and all the money he spent.

Of course the Democrats went along with Bush’s desire for war. They were
lied to. Bush yanked the security clearances of 92 Senators. Because of
that, the NIE given to the full Congress had to be the 'unclassified'
version. The 'unclassified' NIE had qualifying words and dissenting views
omitted (by Cheney) in order to present the worst possible scenario, instead
of a 'balanced' Intelligence estimate. The Senate voted based on biased info
favorable to the administration's position. Perhaps rereading Part 10 of the
SIC report will help explain.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB129/part10-whitepaper.pdf

> And just in case you haven't kept up with current events,
> the Democrats have controlled Congress and chaired all of
> the banking and finance committees for the past two years.

While Bush controlled the veto of everything the Democrats tried passing.
The fault still lies with Bush and the Republicans. That included the $1
Billion dollars Cheney’s Halliburton lost. When the Democrats requested
oversight and an investigation, Bush and the Republicans told them to kiss
off.

Try as you might, this is all GOP.

Jerry ‘n Vegas

Date: 11 Feb 2009 02:24:56
From: Dutch
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote
On Feb 11, 12:17 am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
> > some
> > intelligence.
>
> > Mel
>
> Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
> for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
> deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's going
> to be a long 8 years!!!!!
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
the liberal press is seeing it.
----------------------

No kidding, the guy can't even solve two unwinnable wars and a worldwide
economic meltdown in three weeks with the Republicans in full pout mode.

Impeach the bastard.

Date: 11 Feb 2009 02:38:41
From: RGP Loner
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 11 2009 3:24 AM, Dutch wrote:

> "Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com> wrote
> On Feb 11, 12:17 am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
> >
> > > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
> > > some
> > > intelligence.
> >
> > > Mel
> >
> > Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
> > for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
> > deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's going
> > to be a long 8 years!!!!!
> >
> It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
> floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
> unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
> in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
> the liberal press is seeing it.
> ----------------------
>
> No kidding, the guy can't even solve two unwinnable wars and a worldwide
> economic meltdown in three weeks with the Republicans in full pout mode.
>
> Impeach the bastard.

Is that what that is ? Full Pout Mode...

LOL FPM...

________________________________________________________________________
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Date: 11 Feb 2009 02:44:24
From: Dutch
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"RGP Loner" <aaaa0db@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:hema66xa1m.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Feb 11 2009 3:24 AM, Dutch wrote:
>
>> "Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com> wrote
>> On Feb 11, 12:17 am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>> >
>> > > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and
>> > > shows
>> > > some
>> > > intelligence.
>> >
>> > > Mel
>> >
>> > Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking
>> > responsibility
>> > for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade,
>> > spin,
>> > deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's
>> > going
>> > to be a long 8 years!!!!!
>> >
>> It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
>> floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
>> unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
>> in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
>> the liberal press is seeing it.
>> ----------------------
>>
>> No kidding, the guy can't even solve two unwinnable wars and a worldwide
>> economic meltdown in three weeks with the Republicans in full pout mode.
>>
>> Impeach the bastard.
>
>
> Is that what that is ? Full Pout Mode...
>
>
> LOL FPM...

PFM = "Taliban Mode"

Date: 11 Feb 2009 00:25:28
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:d16a3fd1-97cc-4305-9b36-fa521cba0178@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

>It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
>floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
>unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
>in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
>the liberal press is seeing it.

Wow. You can tell all that about President Obama after he's been on the job
for 20 whole days?! Maybe you should be President.

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:23:27
From: Clave
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"Alim Nassor" <alimnassor@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:d16a3fd1-97cc-4305-9b36-fa521cba0178@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 11, 12:17 am, "Porsche_Dan" <porsche....@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 10 2009 8:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
> > some
> > intelligence.
>
> > Mel
>
> Yes but what is this acknowledging his mistakes and taking responsibility
> for them bullshit? Not very presidential if you ask me! Lie, evade, spin,
> deflect............ This honesty shit is really pissing me off! It's going
> to be a long 8 years!!!!!
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this president is
floundering. What do you expect to happen when you elect the most
unqualified man to ever sit in the Oval Office? One unfinished term
in the US Senate. 90% of which was spent running for President. Even
the liberal press is seeing it.
=======================================================================

Dan, I hope he at least gives you your hook back. I didn't think you'd land
a thing.

SFM.

Jim

Date: 10 Feb 2009 09:16:37
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM, MZB wrote:

> Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows some
> intelligence.
>
> Mel

I agree he speaks well, but his actions thus far have been a parade of
failure.

- Planning to close gitmo without any plan about what to do with the
detainees.
- a tax cheat to head the IRS
- a guy with no intelligence background to head the CIA
- a gaggle of tax cheats for other positions
- no response to Iran's new ICBM threat (and yes, that's what their
satellite launch represents)
- a "stimulus" bill so loaded with pork they're keeping it in a sty
between committee meetings

He may be smart, but if so he's not translating it into effective action.
I hope he does better in the future, because we're royally fucked as a
country if he doesn't.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

---
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com

Date: 14 Feb 2009 22:14:28
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

Wayne Vinson, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 2/10/2009
11:16 AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on
Usenet:
> On Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
>> Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows some
>> intelligence.
>>
>> Mel
>
> I agree he speaks well, but his actions thus far have been a parade of
> failure.
>
> - Planning to close gitmo without any plan about what to do with the
> detainees.
> - a tax cheat to head the IRS
> - a guy with no intelligence background to head the CIA
> - a gaggle of tax cheats for other positions
> - no response to Iran's new ICBM threat (and yes, that's what their
> satellite launch represents)

<sigh > - remember when folks didn't just assume we should be the world's
police agency?

Cheers.

> - a "stimulus" bill so loaded with pork they're keeping it in a sty
> between committee meetings
>
> He may be smart, but if so he's not translating it into effective action.
> I hope he does better in the future, because we're royally fucked as a
> country if he doesn't.
>
> Wayne Vinson
> http://cardsharp.org/
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
>
> ---
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
>
>

Date: 10 Feb 2009 21:06:05
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 10 2009 10:16 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> On Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
some
> > intelligence.
> >
> > Mel
>
> I agree he speaks well, but his actions thus far have been a parade of
> failure.
>
> - Planning to close gitmo without any plan about what to do with the
> detainees.
> - a tax cheat to head the IRS
> - a guy with no intelligence background to head the CIA
> - a gaggle of tax cheats for other positions
> - no response to Iran's new ICBM threat (and yes, that's what their
> satellite launch represents)
> - a "stimulus" bill so loaded with pork they're keeping it in a sty
> between committee meetings
>
> He may be smart, but if so he's not translating it into effective action.
> I hope he does better in the future, because we're royally fucked as a
> country if he doesn't.

You can say that again. Everything was going great until this idiot showed
up. I already miss the days of intelligent leadership compliments of le
Parti Républicain.

------
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

Date: 10 Feb 2009 20:11:12
From: RGP Loner
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 10 2009 10:16 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> On Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>
> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
some
> > intelligence.
> >
> > Mel
>
> I agree he speaks well, but his actions thus far have been a parade of
> failure.
>
> - Planning to close gitmo without any plan about what to do with the
> detainees.
> - a tax cheat to head the IRS
> - a guy with no intelligence background to head the CIA
> - a gaggle of tax cheats for other positions
> - no response to Iran's new ICBM threat (and yes, that's what their
> satellite launch represents)
> - a "stimulus" bill so loaded with pork they're keeping it in a sty
> between committee meetings
>
> He may be smart, but if so he's not translating it into effective action.
> I hope he does better in the future, because we're royally fucked as a
> country if he doesn't.

This poor country of ours is already royally fucked. let us just hope
that we don't get pregnant with Communisms baby, Irish Mike won't allow
birth control.

_____________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

Date: 10 Feb 2009 23:32:43
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

"RGP Loner" <aaaa0db@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:0ov966x4ti.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Feb 10 2009 10:16 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:
>
>> On Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM, MZB wrote:
>>
>> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
> some
>> > intelligence.
>> >
>> > Mel
>>
>> I agree he speaks well, but his actions thus far have been a parade of
>> failure.
>>
>> - Planning to close gitmo without any plan about what to do with the
>> detainees.
>> - a tax cheat to head the IRS
>> - a guy with no intelligence background to head the CIA
>> - a gaggle of tax cheats for other positions
>> - no response to Iran's new ICBM threat (and yes, that's what their
>> satellite launch represents)
>> - a "stimulus" bill so loaded with pork they're keeping it in a sty
>> between committee meetings
>>
>> He may be smart, but if so he's not translating it into effective action.
>> I hope he does better in the future, because we're royally fucked as a
>> country if he doesn't.
>
>
>
> This poor country of ours is already royally fucked. let us just hope
> that we don't get pregnant with Communisms baby, Irish Mike won't allow
> birth control.

Pull your head out of The Messiah's kool aid bucket and take an honest look
at the screw-ups he's made in just his first few days in office. Obama
doesn't have a clue about what he's doing. And because he doesn't have the
experience, knowlege and skill to lead, the country is being run in to the
ground by left wing morons like Nancy Pelosi and incompetent dim wits like
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. If Obama doesn't stop putting his left wing
political agenda ahead of the welfare of this country, we are heading for
another "Great Depression".

Irish Mike

Date: 10 Feb 2009 22:53:14
From: RGP Loner
Subject: Re: Refreshing change

On Feb 10 2009 9:32 PM, Irish Mike wrote:

> "RGP Loner" <aaaa0db@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0ov966x4ti.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Feb 10 2009 10:16 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM, MZB wrote:
> >>
> >> > Listening to a President who actually thinks before speaking and shows
> > some
> >> > intelligence.
> >> >
> >> > Mel
> >>
> >> I agree he speaks well, but his actions thus far have been a parade of
> >> failure.
> >>
> >> - Planning to close gitmo without any plan about what to do with the
> >> detainees.
> >> - a tax cheat to head the IRS
> >> - a guy with no intelligence background to head the CIA
> >> - a gaggle of tax cheats for other positions
> >> - no response to Iran's new ICBM threat (and yes, that's what their
> >> satellite launch represents)
> >> - a "stimulus" bill so loaded with pork they're keeping it in a sty
> >> between committee meetings
> >>
> >> He may be smart, but if so he's not translating it into effective action.
> >> I hope he does better in the future, because we're royally fucked as a
> >> country if he doesn't.
> >
> >
> >
> > This poor country of ours is already royally fucked. let us just hope
> > that we don't get pregnant with Communisms baby, Irish Mike won't allow
> > birth control.
>
> Pull your head out of The Messiah's kool aid bucket and take an honest look
> at the screw-ups he's made in just his first few days in office. Obama
> doesn't have a clue about what he's doing. And because he doesn't have the
> experience, knowlege and skill to lead, the country is being run in to the
> ground by left wing morons like Nancy Pelosi and incompetent dim wits like
> Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. If Obama doesn't stop putting his left wing
> political agenda ahead of the welfare of this country, we are heading for
> another "Great Depression".
>
> Irish Mike

News flash to you buddy, we are now heading for a Depression and have
been for the last 6 yrs.

Glad to have you on board...

Oh and You and your ilk are giving Kool aid a bad name. If you new half
of what you think you do, you could easily know that it was "Lime ade"
that was passed around the party.

________________________________________________________________________
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