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Date: 05 Jan 2009 12:25:55
From: Vince
Subject: Pascal's bet
Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore, make
the bet with the best odds:
Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Yahweh,
the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.

Vince








 
Date: 08 Jan 2009 18:23:14
From: OrangeSFO
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5, 10:25=A0am, "Vince" <vcuccia...@comcast.net > wrote:



> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to=
make a
> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Yahw=
eh,
> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.



Where did you get the idea that the God of Christians is not the same
of Jews and Muslims?



  
Date: 09 Jan 2009 09:12:19
From: Gareth Erskine-Jones
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:23:14 -0800 (PST), OrangeSFO
<intangible103@yahoo.com > wrote:

>On Jan 5, 10:25am, "Vince" <vcuccia...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
>> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Yahweh,
>> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
>
>
>Where did you get the idea that the God of Christians is not the same
>of Jews and Muslims?

What that means depends on whether or not God exists. If not, then you
are comparing the different conceptions of God. There are some fairly
big differences - the evolution of the jewish concept of God is
something you don't see in Islam (Mark Smith's "The Early History of
God" is an excellent scholarly book on the jewish idea of God) - the
jewish idea of God appears to have evolved from the combination of a
number of ancient local storm gods for example. The Islamic idea of
God is much tidier - resembling aristotle's view of God quite closely
(even before the aristotalianism became a major inflluence in islam).
The christian view of God is very different from the jewish one - the
idea of the trinity is completely alien to judaism.

As an example - one can ask, regarding the christian God, does he say
something is wrong (e.g. murder) because of some external moral
standard (which means there is something co-eternal with God), or is
something right simply because God ordains it. Christian philosophers
have given different answers for centuries. In Islam there is no
question - God is will - if he commands something, then that is right.

Of couse, if God does exists, then one could argue that the Jews,
christians and muslims are all worshipping the same God, but that at
least two of those religions (perhaps all three) are mistaken about
his nature.

GEJ


  
Date: 08 Jan 2009 20:12:09
From: funky cold medina
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 8, 6:53=A0pm, Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com >
wrote:

> --
> Will in New Haven
> After a lifelong study of the Buddha=92s words, I have to regretfully
> admit that the Four Noble Truths are probably not
> Faster Horses,
> Older Whiskey,
> Younger Women,
> More Money

Yep, horses were bumped from the list. Years ago.

"shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass
shot like a flower in the dance

amazing how death wins hands down
amazing how much credence is given to idiot forms of life

amazing how laughter has been drowned out
amazing how viciousness is such a constant

I must soon declare my own war on their war
I must hold to my last piece of ground
I must protect the small space I have made that has allowed me life

my life not their death
my death not their death... "
-Bukowski


  
Date: 08 Jan 2009 18:53:48
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 8, 9:23 pm, OrangeSFO <intangible...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jan 5, 10:25 am, "Vince" <vcuccia...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Ya=
hweh,
> > the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> Where did you get the idea that the God of Christians is not the same
> of Jews and Muslims?

While you are right about that, there are still many other belief-
systems and gods. For instance, if it turns out, although it may seem
massively against the odds, that Odin is actually in charge, is HE
someone you want to piss off.

And Jews, Muslims and Christians have many more than three versions of
how you are supposed to behave and what is needed to please god.

So there are many choices, not just "yes" and "no."

--
Will in New Haven
After a lifelong study of the Buddha=92s words, I have to regretfully
admit that the Four Noble Truths are probably not
Faster Horses,
Older Whiskey,
Younger Women,
More Money


 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 16:20:55
From: Tad Perry
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
"Vince" <vcuccia122@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:496242e3$0$28759$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...
> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
make
> the bet with the best odds:
> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
Yahweh,
> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.

Islamists and Christians generally agree that they are worshipping the same
God. Islam is an evolution forward, or extension of, Christianity, not a
complately unrelated religion. In Islam, both Jesus and Muhammed are
prophets of the same God.

tvp




  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 21:59:28
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:20:55 -0800, "Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net >
wrote:

>"Vince" <vcuccia122@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:496242e3$0$28759$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...
>> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
>> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
>> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
>> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
>make
>> the bet with the best odds:
>> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
>> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
>Yahweh,
>> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
>Islamists and Christians generally agree that they are worshipping the same
>God. Islam is an evolution forward, or extension of, Christianity, not a
>complately unrelated religion. In Islam, both Jesus and Muhammed are
>prophets of the same God.
>
>tvp
>

Islam is "an evolution forward"?
WTF?

Waging Jihad is a "forward evolution"?

-----------------------------------------------------
Islam means "submission".
In theory it means submission to the will of Allah.
In practice it means submission to the will of the latest, most
ruthless Thug that comes along.

Get your head out and look around you, boy.


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 16:23:36
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5, 7:20 pm, "Tad Perry" <tadpe...@comcast.net > wrote:
> "Vince" <vcuccia...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:496242e3$0$28759$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...
>
> > Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
> > when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
> > believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
> make
> > the bet with the best odds:
> > Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> Yahweh,
> > the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> Islamists

That's a pretty wierd way to say "Muslims."

and Christians generally agree that they are worshipping the same
> God. Islam is an evolution forward, or extension of, Christianity, not a
> complately unrelated religion. In Islam, both Jesus and Muhammed are
> prophets of the same God.

And they both maintain that this is the same god that is talked about
in the Old Testament.

--
Will in New Haven
>
> tvp



 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 21:12:03
From: Gareth Erskine-Jones
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:25:55 -0600, "Vince" <vcuccia122@comcast.net >
wrote:

> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
>wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
>when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
>believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore, make
>the bet with the best odds:
> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
>second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Yahweh,
>the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.

The main problem with Pascal's wager is that it's generally quite hard
to choose to believe in something. If I'm an atheist, I can pretend to
be a christian, but I can't decide to believe in God on the off chance
that it's going to be to my benefit....



  
Date: 08 Jan 2009 16:55:31
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 8, 6:55 pm, "da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote:
> "Pepe Papon"
>
> > If this kid represents the future of Christianity, then I'm more
> > optimistic than I've ever been about organized religion.
>
> Sounds like the same thing I was taught over fifty years ago. And my
> parents before me.

I have an ex-girlfriend who has become very religioius. However, she
thinks most of the _rules_ are things that god would RATHER we obey
but she doesn't think the God she believes in is going to send people
to Hell over most of them. She obeys all the rules to please god and
make him happy and she says that it also makes her feel better but
she doesn't think even I am going to Hell.
--
Will in New Haven


   
Date: 09 Jan 2009 02:22:12
From: Gareth Erskine-Jones
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:55:31 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
<bill.reich@taylorandfrancis.com > wrote:

>On Jan 8, 6:55 pm, "da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Pepe Papon"
>>
>> > If this kid represents the future of Christianity, then I'm more
>> > optimistic than I've ever been about organized religion.
>>
>> Sounds like the same thing I was taught over fifty years ago. And my
>> parents before me.
>
>I have an ex-girlfriend who has become very religioius. However, she
>thinks most of the _rules_ are things that god would RATHER we obey
>but she doesn't think the God she believes in is going to send people
>to Hell over most of them. She obeys all the rules to please god and
>make him happy and she says that it also makes her feel better but
>she doesn't think even I am going to Hell.

It's a common misconception (even amongst practising christians) that
christianity teaches that punishment or reward after death are related
to behaviour in this life. There are denominations of christianity
which to teach this, but the idea (called "salvation by works") was
firmly rejected by the Reformation, to be replaced by the doctrine of
"salvation by grace". This is taught by almost all protestant
churches, (and indeed was taught by the Jansenists of whom Pascal was
an adherent), and basically boils down to the idea that God creates
some people for salvation and some for damnation - it's the doctrine
of Predestination. Most church goers I know (quite a lot), are not
very familiar with the actual teaching of the church - to use an
expression quite common in the UK, there has been a distinct dumbing
down over the years. Most christians I know when reading about their
religion, only read simplistic books written by people whose views
reflect their own. I found this quite disturbing when studying
theology in Glasgow (in a Calvinistic college) - the modern calvinists
were incredibly rigid and uncritical in their thinking, which is
something that Calvin (or indeed the other reformers - Luther etc.)
could never be accused of.

The idea that someone doesn't have to explicitly be a christian to be
saved was, by the way, introduced when it was noticed that although
one had to give one's life to Christ to be saved, but that people like
Moses has never heard of him - in other words, it's a non-bibilical
doctrine (most of them are), intended to get around an awkward problem
(christian doctrine is absolutely riddled with contradictions and
other problems).

On a funnier note, some christian group did a survey in the UK
recently and were apparently dismayed to find that only a small
percentage of the people questioned could tell the story of the
nativity. The article I read about the survey didn't mention that the
nativity story occurs twice in the bible, and the two versions differ
dramatically - the story told today is basically an attempt at
combining the two without stretching credibility too far. I wonder if
they'll do a similar survey at Easter to see if people know which day
Jesus was crucified on (the different gospels give different days).

GEJ


   
Date: 08 Jan 2009 20:41:55
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet

"Will in New Haven" <bill.reich@taylorandfrancis.com > wrote in message
news:73a142a2-2f2b-40de-a1ac-1f4afc2309e9@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 8, 6:55 pm, "da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Pepe Papon"
>>
>> > If this kid represents the future of Christianity, then I'm more
>> > optimistic than I've ever been about organized religion.
>>
>> Sounds like the same thing I was taught over fifty years ago. And my
>> parents before me.
>
> I have an ex-girlfriend who has become very religioius. However, she
> thinks most of the _rules_ are things that god would RATHER we obey
> but she doesn't think the God she believes in is going to send people
> to Hell over most of them. She obeys all the rules to please god and
> make him happy and she says that it also makes her feel better but
> she doesn't think even I am going to Hell.
> --
> Will in New Haven

I have never believed in "Hell" or devils with horns and pitchforks.
However, I do believe in the absence of God. When good people, who believe
in God, die they come in to the presence of God. When evil people and those
who deny his existence die, they cease to exist. They spend eternity in
nothingness, as nothingness. Being banned from the presence of God is their
Hell.

Irish Mike




  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 13:36:33
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 1:12 PM, Gareth Erskine-Jones wrote:

> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:25:55 -0600, "Vince" <vcuccia122@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> >wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
> >when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
> >believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
make
> >the bet with the best odds:
> > Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> >second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
Yahweh,
> >the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> The main problem with Pascal's wager is that it's generally quite hard
> to choose to believe in something. If I'm an atheist, I can pretend to
> be a christian, but I can't decide to believe in God on the off chance
> that it's going to be to my benefit....

If all you have to do is "accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior"
before you die, then there are lots and lots of good people in hell, and
lots and lots of evil people in heaven.

Brew
--
Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

____________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




   
Date: 08 Jan 2009 14:16:06
From: Pepe Papon
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:36:33 -0800, "brewmaster"
<a163b@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>If all you have to do is "accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior"
>before you die, then there are lots and lots of good people in hell, and
>lots and lots of evil people in heaven.

On my last flight from LA to Nashville, TN, I was sitting next to some
college freshman who was majoring in something like Christian
Leadership. He had his Bble handy and was willing and eager to share
his religious views with me.

I challenged him on several points, including this one. He had some
surprisingly reasonable answers to my challenges. His response to
this was something to the effect that those who live evil lives may
profess to accept Jesus Christ, but unless they are living by his
teachings, they haven't truly accepted him. Conversely, those that
live by his teachings have accepted what he stood for, knowingly or
not, and will be rewarded after death.

If this kid represents the future of Christianity, then I'm more
optimistic than I've ever been about organized religion.


    
Date: 08 Jan 2009 17:55:50
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
"Pepe Papon"

> If this kid represents the future of Christianity, then I'm more
> optimistic than I've ever been about organized religion.

Sounds like the same thing I was taught over fifty years ago. And my
parents before me.




     
Date: 09 Jan 2009 02:19:52
From: Pepe Papon
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:55:50 -0600, "da pickle"
<jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote:

>"Pepe Papon"
>
>> If this kid represents the future of Christianity, then I'm more
>> optimistic than I've ever been about organized religion.
>
>Sounds like the same thing I was taught over fifty years ago. And my
>parents before me.
>

There seem to be a lot of believers who haven't gotten that memo.


      
Date: 09 Jan 2009 07:16:00
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
"Pepe Papon"

> There seem to be a lot of believers who haven't gotten that memo.

You are correct that many "believers" profess to belong to groups that have
professed "beliefs" they do not really know what those beliefs might be.
There are a few that think they alone have "the truth" but they do not
consider themselves "believers" at all ... just that they know the truth.
They often subscribe to the notion that there are others that also know the
truth and those others think exactly what they think.

We all have societies and sub-societies to which we belong with varying
degrees of commitment.




   
Date: 07 Jan 2009 11:36:59
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
> If all you have to do is "accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior"
> before you die, then there are lots and lots of good people in hell, and
> lots and lots of evil people in heaven.
>
> Brew
> --
> Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

Well said Brew! Clear, concise and straight to the point. Organized
religion turns me off for beliefs such as these.

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

---
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 19:01:35
From: Patti Beadles
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
Pascal's Wager has so many implicit assumptions that it isn't
funny:

- The cost of belief is zero
- There's only one deity to choose from
- Said deity wants you to believe in it
- Said deity will reward you for belief and punish you for nonbelief

The first two clearly aren't valid assumptions.

The last two seem to be assumptions that we painted onto
said deity, and may or may not be valid at all. What if
your deity has created trap religions that believe in false
deities but have obvious logical holes, and only rewards
those who don't fall for them?

-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 17:03:02
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 6, 8:01=A0am, pat...@green.rahul.net (Patti Beadles) wrote:
> Pascal's Wager has so many implicit assumptions that it isn't
> funny:
>
> - The cost of belief is zero
> - There's only one deity to choose from
> - Said deity wants you to believe in it
> - Said deity will reward you for belief and punish you for nonbelief
>
> The first two clearly aren't valid assumptions.

Come on, that's all clearly stated as true in the bible.


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 14:49:13
From: Deadmoney Walking
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5, 2:01=A0pm, pat...@green.rahul.net (Patti Beadles) wrote:
> Pascal's Wager has so many implicit assumptions that it isn't
> funny:
>
> - The cost of belief is zero
> - There's only one deity to choose from
> - Said deity wants you to believe in it
> - Said deity will reward you for belief and punish you for nonbelief
>
> The first two clearly aren't valid assumptions.
>
> The last two seem to be assumptions that we painted onto
> said deity, and may or may not be valid at all. =A0What if
> your deity has created trap religions that believe in false
> deities but have obvious logical holes, and only rewards
> those who don't fall for them?
>
> -Patti
> --
> Patti Beadles, =A0 =A0Oakland, CA


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 21:17:12
From: Gareth Erskine-Jones
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:01:35 +0000 (UTC), pattib@green.rahul.net (Patti
Beadles) wrote:

>Pascal's Wager has so many implicit assumptions that it isn't
>funny:

-snip-

>- Said deity will reward you for belief and punish you for nonbelief

and this particular assumption is not even correct for any version of
christianity I'm familiar with, including Jansenism, of which Pascal
was an adherent.

GEJ


 
Date: 05 Jan 2009 10:29:09
From: MMelia
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:

> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk nothing
> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore, make
> the bet with the best odds:
> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Yahweh,
> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> Vince

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
god?

_____________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 17:01:32
From: Old Wolf
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 6, 11:47=A0am, Deadmoney Walking <tbones...@gmail.com > wrote:
> disagreed. a low percentage bet is more +EV than a zero % one, unless
> you attach a % to atheism.

I see where you get your handle..


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 14:47:13
From: Deadmoney Walking
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5, 3:02=A0pm, "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jan 5 2009 2:40 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 1:29=A0pm, "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
>
> > > > Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > > > wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> nothing
> > > > when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you =
do not
> > > > believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Theref=
ore,
> make
> > > > the bet with the best odds:
> > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Interesting wager except for the fact that you h=
ave to make a
> > > > second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam=
?
> Yahweh,
> > > > the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> > > > Vince
>
> > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the s=
ame
> > > god?
>
> > Yes, but each of them has a very different idea of what that god is
> > like and what he wants you to do. Even among the followers of each one
> > of those broadly-defined groups there is disagreement. Also, there are
> > other belief systems, so your wager had best be very precise.
>
> > --
> > Will in New Haven
> > "An it harm none, do as you will shall be the whole of the law."
> > Attributed often to Alistair Crowley but it predates him. "An" in this
> > case means "if."
>
> Agreed.
>
> -------=A0
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader :www.recgroups.com- Hide qu=
oted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

disagreed. a low percentage bet is more +EV than a zero % one, unless
you attach a % to atheism.


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 11:40:22
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5, 1:29=A0pm, "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
>
> > Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk noth=
ing
> > when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do n=
ot
> > believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,=
make
> > the bet with the best odds:
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Interesting wager except for the fact that you have =
to make a
> > second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam? Ya=
hweh,
> > the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> > Vince
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
> god?

Yes, but each of them has a very different idea of what that god is
like and what he wants you to do. Even among the followers of each one
of those broadly-defined groups there is disagreement. Also, there are
other belief systems, so your wager had best be very precise.

--
Will in New Haven
"An it harm none, do as you will shall be the whole of the law."
Attributed often to Alistair Crowley but it predates him. "An" in this
case means "if."



   
Date: 05 Jan 2009 12:02:12
From: MMelia
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 2:40 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On Jan 5, 1:29pm, "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> >
> > > Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > > wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
nothing
> > > when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
> > > believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
make
> > > the bet with the best odds:
> > > Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > > second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
Yahweh,
> > > the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> >
> > > Vince
> >
> > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
> > god?
>
> Yes, but each of them has a very different idea of what that god is
> like and what he wants you to do. Even among the followers of each one
> of those broadly-defined groups there is disagreement. Also, there are
> other belief systems, so your wager had best be very precise.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
> "An it harm none, do as you will shall be the whole of the law."
> Attributed often to Alistair Crowley but it predates him. "An" in this
> case means "if."

Agreed.

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Date: 05 Jan 2009 11:04:27
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
What's Confucious say on this?





On Jan 5, 10:53=EF=BF=BDam, "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
>
> > >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> > >> nothing
> > >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you d=
o not
> > >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefo=
re,
> > >> make
> > >> the bet with the best odds:
> > >> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDInteresting wager e=
xcept for the fact that you have to make a
> > >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> > >> Yahweh,
> > >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>
> > >> Vince
>
> > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the s=
ame
> > > god?
>
> > > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? =EF=BF=BDWhy are the Jews f=
ighting the
> > > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. =EF=BF=BDI=
t's all based
> > > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than =
your
> > > god.
>
> > Vince
>
> Nope. =EF=BF=BDWrong.
>
> Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
> Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
> and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
> Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
> errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
> over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
> word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
> Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
> viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
>
> Its all about prophets.
>
> ------=EF=BF=BD
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide q=
uoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



   
Date: 07 Jan 2009 07:27:17
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 1:04 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> What's Confucious say on this?

Confucious say : Squirrel lay on rock and crack nuts ..man lay on crack
and rock nuts !!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 5, 10:53�am, "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "MMelia" <a4f6...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > >news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> >
> > > >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > > >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> > > >> nothing
> > > >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do
not
> > > >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong.
Therefore,
> > > >> make
> > > >> the bet with the best odds:
> > > >> � � � � �Interesting wager except for the fact that you
have to make a
> > > >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> > > >> Yahweh,
> > > >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> >
> > > >> Vince
> >
> > > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the
same
> > > > god?
> >
> > > > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? �Why are the Jews fighting
the
> > > > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. �It's all
based
> > > > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than
your
> > > > god.
> >
> > > Vince
> >
> > Nope. �Wrong.
> >
> > Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
> > Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
> > and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
> > Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
> > errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
> > over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
> > word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
> > Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
> > viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
> >
> > Its all about prophets.
> >
> > ------�
> > * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide
quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 05 Jan 2009 11:33:35
From: MMelia
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 2:04 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> What's Confucious say on this?
>
>
Confucious says: Baseball is wrong - man with four balls cannot walk.

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Date: 05 Jan 2009 20:38:23
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet

"MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:ft3a36xhm9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 5 2009 2:04 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
>
>> What's Confucious say on this?
>>
>>
> Confucious says: Baseball is wrong - man with four balls cannot walk.
>

Confucius say: Woman who flies plane upside down have crack up.




     
Date: 06 Jan 2009 00:19:33
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:38:23 -0700, "Robert Ladd" <rladd5@cox.net > wrote:

>>> What's Confucious say on this?
>>
>> Confucious says: Baseball is wrong - man with four balls cannot walk.
>
>Confucius say: Woman who flies plane upside down have crack up.

Confucius say: Man who fart in church sit in pew.

Confucius say: Man who take piss in cash register soon find it run into money.

-- Larry


  
Date: 05 Jan 2009 13:31:15
From: Vince
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet

"MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
>
>> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
>> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
>> nothing
>> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
>> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
>> make
>> the bet with the best odds:
>> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
>> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
>> Yahweh,
>> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>>
>> Vince
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
> god?
>
> Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting the
> Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all based
> on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than your
> god.

Vince_____________________________________________________________________
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
>



   
Date: 05 Jan 2009 10:53:18
From: MMelia
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:

> "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> >
> >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> >> nothing
> >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
> >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
> >> make
> >> the bet with the best odds:
> >> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> >> Yahweh,
> >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> >>
> >> Vince
> >
> > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
> > god?
> >
> > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting the
> > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all based
> > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than your
> > god.
>
> Vince

Nope. Wrong.

Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.

Its all about prophets.

------
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 07:24:55
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 12:53 PM, MMelia wrote:

> On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
>
> > "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> > >
> > >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> > >> nothing
> > >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do
not
> > >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
> > >> make
> > >> the bet with the best odds:
> > >> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> > >> Yahweh,
> > >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> > >>
> > >> Vince
> > >
> > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
> > > god?
> > >
> > > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting the
> > > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all
based
> > > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than
your
> > > god.
> >
> > Vince
>
> Nope. Wrong.
>
> Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
> Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
> and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
> Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
> errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
> over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
> word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
> Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
> viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
>
> Its all about prophets.


AND PROFITS


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

________________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



    
Date: 05 Jan 2009 20:45:38
From: bub
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:53:18 -0800, "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid >
wrote:

>Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
>viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.


"I believe the whole concept of monotheism is a gift from the gods."
emo philips


    
Date: 05 Jan 2009 13:33:42
From: brewmaster
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 10:53 AM, MMelia wrote:

> On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
>
> > "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> > >
> > >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> > >> nothing
> > >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do
not
> > >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
> > >> make
> > >> the bet with the best odds:
> > >> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> > >> Yahweh,
> > >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> > >>
> > >> Vince
> > >
> > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
> > > god?
> > >
> > > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting the
> > > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all
based
> > > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than
your
> > > god.
> >
> > Vince
>
> Nope. Wrong.
>
> Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
> Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
> and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
> Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
> errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
> over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
> word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
> Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
> viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
>
> Its all about prophets.

Why isn't Joseph Smith the last prophet?


Brew
--
Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

--------
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Date: 06 Jan 2009 07:06:30
From: Porsche_Dan
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 1:33 PM, brewmaster wrote:

> On Jan 5 2009 10:53 AM, MMelia wrote:
>
> > On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
> >
> > > "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > > news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > > >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> > > >> nothing
> > > >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do
> not
> > > >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong.
Therefore,
> > > >> make
> > > >> the bet with the best odds:
> > > >> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > > >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> > > >> Yahweh,
> > > >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> > > >>
> > > >> Vince
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the
same
> > > > god?
> > > >
> > > > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting
the
> > > > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all
> based
> > > > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than
> your
> > > > god.
> > >
> > > Vince
> >
> > Nope. Wrong.
> >
> > Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
> > Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
> > and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
> > Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
> > errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
> > over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
> > word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
> > Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
> > viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
> >
> > Its all about prophets.
>
> Why isn't Joseph Smith the last prophet?
>
>
> Brew

Mormonism is based on Prophets and has 13 of them running the Church at
all times. In the psychology world the definition of a Prophet =
Schizophrenic!

I side with the Psychologists on this one!

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Date: 05 Jan 2009 14:14:49
From: MMelia
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Jan 5 2009 4:33 PM, brewmaster wrote:

> On Jan 5 2009 10:53 AM, MMelia wrote:
>
> > On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
> >
> > > "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> > > news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
> > > >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
> > > >> nothing
> > > >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do
> not
> > > >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong.
Therefore,
> > > >> make
> > > >> the bet with the best odds:
> > > >> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
> > > >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
> > > >> Yahweh,
> > > >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
> > > >>
> > > >> Vince
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the
same
> > > > god?
> > > >
> > > > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting
the
> > > > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all
> based
> > > > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than
> your
> > > > god.
> > >
> > > Vince
> >
> > Nope. Wrong.
> >
> > Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
> > Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
> > and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
> > Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
> > errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
> > over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
> > word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
> > Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
> > viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
> >
> > Its all about prophets.
>
> Why isn't Joseph Smith the last prophet?
>
>
> Brew
> --
> Email me here: http://tinymail.me/k4r2nk

That's what some believe.

-----
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



    
Date: 05 Jan 2009 21:13:08
From: Gareth Erskine-Jones
Subject: Re: Pascal's bet
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:53:18 -0800, "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid >
wrote:

>On Jan 5 2009 1:41 PM, Vince wrote:
>
>> "MMelia" <a4f63df@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:l40a36xpc9.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> > On Jan 5 2009 12:31 PM, Vince wrote:
>> >
>> >> Pascal- a 17th century mathematician- is known for his famous
>> >> wager. Either God exists or his does not. If you believe, you risk
>> >> nothing
>> >> when you are wrong, but gain everything when you are right. If you do not
>> >> believe, you lose both ways- whether you are right or wrong. Therefore,
>> >> make
>> >> the bet with the best odds:
>> >> Interesting wager except for the fact that you have to make a
>> >> second bet- the bet on the right god. Is it Allah, the god of Islam?
>> >> Yahweh,
>> >> the Jewish god, or Jesus? Better make the right bet.
>> >>
>> >> Vince
>> >
>> > Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those three religions share the same
>> > god?
>> >
>> > Jesus, allah and yahwey are the same god? Why are the Jews fighting the
>> > Muslims, and why are the Muslims attacking the Christians. It's all based
>> > on the notion that "my god is the only god' or my god is better than your
>> > god.
>>
>> Vince
>
>Nope. Wrong.
>
>Muslims believe that the Jewish God is the same as their God and that
>Jesus is a divinely inspired prophet, but not God. Thus, both the Torah
>and the Gospels are believed to be based upon divine revelation, but
>Muslims believe them to have been corrupted (both accidentally through
>errors in transmission and intentionally by certain Jews and Christians
>over the centuries). Muslims revere the Qur'an as the final uncorrupted
>word of God or the last testament brought through the last prophet,
>Muhammad. Muhammad is regarded as the "Seal of the Prophets" and Islam is
>viewed as the final monotheist faith for all of humanity.
>
>Its all about prophets.

Looking at the wealth accumulated by some religious bodies makes me
think it's all about profits.

GEJ