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Date: 11 Feb 2009 05:11:06
From: John Jetson
Subject: PLO starting hands
Beyond the obvevous Ah Ad Kh Kd etc what are good stsrting hands for PLO






 
Date: 12 Feb 2009 05:33:02
From:
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11, 10:53=A0pm, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
>
> What if you were at the WSOP $10k PLO event. =A0Action is pot, re-pot,
> re-re-pot, re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-pot,
> re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, and you look down at
> AcKcAsKs. =A0What do you do?
>



You mean after I figure out why I'm playing 10-handed PLO at the WSOP
with starting stacks of over 180,000?


(It's early, math may be slightly off, but you get my smart-ass
point ;))


 
Date: 10 Feb 2009 19:11:08
From: TeddysDad
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 10, 3:34=A0pm, "Ian Stuart" <spamsu...@tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
> PLO 101
<<Snip >>
> All coordinated hands are not equal. Card strength counts, as ever. TJQK
> will always be better than 6789. If you have a run-through hand with a
> gap, the gap must be at the bottom end. Whilst 689T has good potential,
> 678T just has a dead card. Note, however, that a top-end gap matters much
> less once you get into broadway territory.
<<Snip >>

ANYONE that uses "Whilst" knows what he/she is talking about.


 
Date: 10 Feb 2009 15:34:47
From: Ian Stuart
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
PLO 101

Position is far more valuable in PLO than in NLHE. Two reasons. First,
giving free cards is far more dangerous in PLO therefore people tend to
play their hand more transparently. Second, as it's pot limit the slow
play + all in is generally not a practical tactic so, again, players tend
to play their hand in a more transparent manner. Greater transparency
means position is extremely valuable.

Hands. 4 cards = six 2-card combos. A useless card reduces your hand to 3
2-card combos. A pair reduces your hand to three 2-card combos. If you are
willing to reduce your options by 50% you'd better have good reason. small
pairs ain't worth shit. Medium pairs are barely worth shit. Premium pairs
are just reasonable unless they have back-up. AAxx is only worth getting
excited about if you are short stacked and/or the xx works with the AA,
and/or you see the flop heads-up, and/or you have position and/or you
haven't given your hand away because you only ever raise with aces.

All coordinated hands are not equal. Card strength counts, as ever. TJQK
will always be better than 6789. If you have a run-through hand with a
gap, the gap must be at the bottom end. Whilst 689T has good potential,
678T just has a dead card. Note, however, that a top-end gap matters much
less once you get into broadway territory.

Suited aces are good (assuming the rest of the hand is co-ordinated). If
you have the king as well though the value of your suited ace goes way
down. The chances of finded someone stupid enough to get their chips in
with the 3rd nut is far, far less than the chances of someone with the
second nut paying you off.

Unless you're playing a short stack, or are happy to gamble, avoid preflop
raise fests. AAKKds ain't worth shit if the flop comes 6789 rainbow. Have
patience and play hardball once you've flopped a monster draw, nuts +
redraws or nut boat when you get two callers.

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 15:35:39
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
> Suited aces are good (assuming the rest of the hand is co-ordinated). If
> you have the king as well though the value of your suited ace goes way
> down. The chances of finded someone stupid enough to get their chips in
> with the 3rd nut is far, far less than the chances of someone with the
> second nut paying you off.

So true, flopped the nut flush with AKc in my hand earlier today. I
breathed on the pot and the other 4 players folded instantly.

I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV. It's amazing what some of the
gamblers/shorties will call you with. Of course, you don't win 80% of
those hands but it is still +EV.

Dean

"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:53:45
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 5:35 PM, MrBookworm wrote:

> I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
> Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV.

What if you were at the WSOP $10k PLO event. Action is pot, re-pot,
re-re-pot, re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-pot,
re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, and you look down at
AcKcAsKs. What do you do?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 06:38:29
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 10:53 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 5:35 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
> > I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
> > Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV.
>
> What if you were at the WSOP $10k PLO event. Action is pot, re-pot,
> re-re-pot, re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-pot,
> re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, and you look down at
> AcKcAsKs. What do you do?

Do you understand that your example does not negate his claim in any way?

All you're doing is making a passive/aggresive statement of what I'd
previously said directly

It's plus EV to always get your money in.

But you'll have an improved result if you only get your money some of the
time.


>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
>
> "I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz
>
> "It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
> obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 02:49:49
From: ppdls
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 12 2009 3:53 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 5:35 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
> > I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
> > Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV.
>
> What if you were at the WSOP $10k PLO event. Action is pot, re-pot,
> re-re-pot, re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-pot,
> re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, and you look down at
> AcKcAsKs. What do you do?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
>
> "I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz
>
> "It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
> obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

Fold and get a good angle to watch the train wreck happening?

I can't imagine with that sort of action that there are any Aces or Kings
left in the deck. Most of the Queens, Jacks and Tens are probably out too.
Your only decent chance of winning this pot against this many opponents
would be to make one of your two possible flushes - without someone else
also filling up a boat. With 8 other players in, all of whom have raised,
any pair on the board will probably give someone else a boat or quads.

ppdls

--
Why procrastinate today, when you could leave it until tomorrow?

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 21:35:55
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
I know that four copies each of QJT9ds and 8765ds are outstanding, and as
a result there will be no straight this hand. As such I know some old
fucker will be deprived of the fun of folding the nuts on the flop, which
is the only thing they actually like about PLO. That by itself makes this
hand worthwhile.

Then I fold. The board will be quad threes, and since it's the WSOP and
they have to hire riff raff and morons like doggy to deal the pot will be
split - after all everyone has quads. In theory I should stay in to get
my 1/9th of the blinds, but a bathroom break is probably higher EV.

Who says tournament strategy is simple?

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 06:48:05
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 12 2009 12:35 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> Then I fold. The board will be quad threes, and since it's the WSOP and
> they have to hire riff raff and morons like doggy to deal the pot will be
> split - after all everyone has quads.

If the board in PLO contains quads, nobody has quads.

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 07:57:47
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 12 2009 9:48 AM, GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:

> On Feb 12 2009 12:35 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:
>
> > Then I fold. The board will be quad threes, and since it's the WSOP and
> > they have to hire riff raff and morons like doggy to deal the pot will be
> > split - after all everyone has quads.
>
> If the board in PLO contains quads, nobody has quads.

I guess you have to experience the wsop floor rulings first hand to
actually understand the true possibilities.

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 08:26:43
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 12 2009 10:57 AM, garycarson wrote:

> On Feb 12 2009 9:48 AM, GrouchySmurf1002 wrote:
>
> > On Feb 12 2009 12:35 AM, Wayne Vinson wrote:
> >
> > > Then I fold. The board will be quad threes, and since it's the WSOP and
> > > they have to hire riff raff and morons like doggy to deal the pot will be
> > > split - after all everyone has quads.
> >
> > If the board in PLO contains quads, nobody has quads.
>
> I guess you have to experience the wsop floor rulings first hand to
> actually understand the true possibilities.

I suppose that's true. My bad.

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 12:27:36
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
"GrouchySmurf1002"

>> > > Then I fold. The board will be quad threes, and since it's the WSOP
>> > > and
>> > > they have to hire riff raff and morons like doggy to deal the pot
>> > > will be
>> > > split - after all everyone has quads.
>> >
>> > If the board in PLO contains quads, nobody has quads.
>>
>> I guess you have to experience the wsop floor rulings first hand to
>> actually understand the true possibilities.
>
> I suppose that's true. My bad.

Heck, I thought you meant the dealer was such a moron (and riff raff as
well) that he split the pot because he could not read the board!




    
Date: 11 Feb 2009 20:39:59
From: Steam
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 7:53 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 5:35 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
> > I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
> > Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV.
>
> What if you were at the WSOP $10k PLO event. Action is pot, re-pot,
> re-re-pot, re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-pot,
> re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, re-re-re-re-re-re-re-pot, and you look down at
> AcKcAsKs. What do you do?

Call, and autofold the flop, right?

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:28:55
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 6:35 PM, MrBookworm wrote:

> > Suited aces are good (assuming the rest of the hand is co-ordinated). If
> > you have the king as well though the value of your suited ace goes way
> > down. The chances of finded someone stupid enough to get their chips in
> > with the 3rd nut is far, far less than the chances of someone with the
> > second nut paying you off.
>
> So true, flopped the nut flush with AKc in my hand earlier today. I
> breathed on the pot and the other 4 players folded instantly.
>
> I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
> Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV.

That doesn't mean it's profitable.

Getting dealt AAxx is profitable. Doing the wrong thing with the hand is
not profitable if the alternative makes more money.

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:50:46
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 9:28 PM, garycarson wrote:

> Getting dealt AAxx is profitable. Doing the wrong thing with the hand is
> not profitable if the alternative makes more money.

richiematt? that you?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:51:20
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 10:50 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 9:28 PM, garycarson wrote:
>
> > Getting dealt AAxx is profitable. Doing the wrong thing with the hand is
> > not profitable if the alternative makes more money.
>
> richiematt? that you?

I PLAY AA WHEN IT IS PROFITABLE EXCEPT WHEN IT IS NOT.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:50:20
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 11 2009 10:28 PM, garycarson wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 6:35 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
> > > Suited aces are good (assuming the rest of the hand is co-ordinated). If
> > > you have the king as well though the value of your suited ace goes way
> > > down. The chances of finded someone stupid enough to get their chips in
> > > with the 3rd nut is far, far less than the chances of someone with the
> > > second nut paying you off.
> >
> > So true, flopped the nut flush with AKc in my hand earlier today. I
> > breathed on the pot and the other 4 players folded instantly.
> >
> > I will say that getting it all in preflop at the $10 max tables at
> > Pokerstars with AAxx is +EV.
>
> That doesn't mean it's profitable.
>
> Getting dealt AAxx is profitable. Doing the wrong thing with the hand is
> not profitable if the alternative makes more money.

You are a fucking idiot Carson, ok thx!

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 10 Feb 2009 10:17:27
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: PLO starting hands
On Feb 10, 10:11=EF=BF=BDam, "John Jetson" <j.jet...@optusnet.com.au > wrote=
:
> Beyond the obvevous Ah Ad Kh Kd etc what are good stsrting hands for PLO

www.pokerunchecked.com