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Date: 07 Dec 2008 02:02:21
From: Tad Perry
Subject: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?
Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Russ
Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are everywhere.

How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on their
house or walk out on a credit card company? How many bankruptcies are
related to the increased gambling? I used to look at those online numbers,
and I figured there were thousands of people in trouble, I just couldn't
figure out how fast it was working itself out.

In the real poker world, the poker playing population in local cardrooms is
way down over seven years ago. It may have been a boom for a while, but the
newcomer's insistance on wanting to play the same game they saw on
television, and the experienced poker players encouraging them to do so,
seems to have separated a whole lot of people from their money. It's funny.
The poker playing population in the US has never been small. There was a
large group of us that already had the public poker scene figured out, and
we could have told you why no-limit poker is saved for tournaments and why
you'd probably rather relax and play some limit poker when playing on a
daily basis, rather than risk going completely broke. There weren't many
voices warding these people off. Most of us just took the spoils and thought
nothing more of it.

I was discussing this with a local floorman I know very well recently, and
he testified that all the missing people are totally broke, and with the
economy the way it is, they are left with no method of funding their play.

Going into Parkers Casino (Parkers is in Shoreline--a city that borders the
North Seattle City Limit.) and finding a high game (anything larger than
4-8) is a fairly difficult proposition nowadays. A small but loyal group of
customers *wants* to play something high (usually 10-20 w/ a full kill) and
accidentally runs into each other every so often and starts a game. In the
past, on any given day, you could count on a game going off in the morning
and lasting all night, usually spawning at least one backup game, if not
two, or even three..

Nope. Those days are GONE. Note that this game has roots that seem to go
back into the 1930's. Also note the unique poker culture of Washington
State. Basically, going back to frontier days, local bars and restaurants
have been allowed to rent out seats to people who wanted to play cards,
including poker games and blackjack. In fact, I believe we are the only
state that essentially legalized what were once saloons. Such establishments
have dotted the landscape around here for Seattle's entire history. Over
time, the gambling laws have changed and now there are higher limits and
center dealers. This has resulted in a strange hybrid type of "minicasino"
that is now common throughout the area. These are small places with no more
than 13 tables. These must be part of another business such as a restaurant,
bar, dance club, or bowling alley.

Almost everyone left playing in the struggling game at Parkers today has a
good, solid income outside of poker. In fact, over half own their own
businesses. It seems that now that we've taken all the poor people's money,
Barrack is going to try giving it back.

One funny thing about it: Say you're struggling in life and you've lost your
job and you can either pay your mortgage, but you know you won't be able to
pay any more after that, or you can gamble up at a poker table and see if
you can win. How many people would feel like everything's going up in flames
anyway, so why not see if they can jump off the cliff one last time and
finally fly, saving everything at the last possible moment as in a Hollywood
movie?

I don't know how you measure it, but there must have been some people who
were hurt badly. Every day there were hundreds of thousands of players
playing at online poker sites that were outright ripping them off at worst
or pitting them against far better players at best. I just have to think
that the number of people who screwed up their credit and finances due to
playing online is not insignificant.

tvp






 
Date: 07 Dec 2008 08:48:48
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?
On Dec 7 2008 4:02 AM, Tad Perry wrote:

> Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Russ
> Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are everywhere.
>
> How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on their
> house or walk out on a credit card company? How many bankruptcies are
> related to the increased gambling? I used to look at those online numbers,
> and I figured there were thousands of people in trouble, I just couldn't
> figure out how fast it was working itself out.
>
> In the real poker world, the poker playing population in local cardrooms is
> way down over seven years ago. It may have been a boom for a while, but the
> newcomer's insistance on wanting to play the same game they saw on
> television, and the experienced poker players encouraging them to do so,
> seems to have separated a whole lot of people from their money. It's funny.
> The poker playing population in the US has never been small. There was a
> large group of us that already had the public poker scene figured out, and
> we could have told you why no-limit poker is saved for tournaments and why
> you'd probably rather relax and play some limit poker when playing on a
> daily basis, rather than risk going completely broke. There weren't many
> voices warding these people off. Most of us just took the spoils and thought
> nothing more of it.
>
> I was discussing this with a local floorman I know very well recently, and
> he testified that all the missing people are totally broke, and with the
> economy the way it is, they are left with no method of funding their play.
>
> Going into Parkers Casino (Parkers is in Shoreline--a city that borders the
> North Seattle City Limit.) and finding a high game (anything larger than
> 4-8) is a fairly difficult proposition nowadays. A small but loyal group of
> customers *wants* to play something high (usually 10-20 w/ a full kill) and
> accidentally runs into each other every so often and starts a game. In the
> past, on any given day, you could count on a game going off in the morning
> and lasting all night, usually spawning at least one backup game, if not
> two, or even three..
>
> Nope. Those days are GONE. Note that this game has roots that seem to go
> back into the 1930's. Also note the unique poker culture of Washington
> State. Basically, going back to frontier days, local bars and restaurants
> have been allowed to rent out seats to people who wanted to play cards,
> including poker games and blackjack. In fact, I believe we are the only
> state that essentially legalized what were once saloons. Such establishments
> have dotted the landscape around here for Seattle's entire history. Over
> time, the gambling laws have changed and now there are higher limits and
> center dealers. This has resulted in a strange hybrid type of "minicasino"
> that is now common throughout the area. These are small places with no more
> than 13 tables. These must be part of another business such as a restaurant,
> bar, dance club, or bowling alley.
>
> Almost everyone left playing in the struggling game at Parkers today has a
> good, solid income outside of poker. In fact, over half own their own
> businesses. It seems that now that we've taken all the poor people's money,
> Barrack is going to try giving it back.
>
> One funny thing about it: Say you're struggling in life and you've lost your
> job and you can either pay your mortgage, but you know you won't be able to
> pay any more after that, or you can gamble up at a poker table and see if
> you can win. How many people would feel like everything's going up in flames
> anyway, so why not see if they can jump off the cliff one last time and
> finally fly, saving everything at the last possible moment as in a Hollywood
> movie?
>
> I don't know how you measure it, but there must have been some people who
> were hurt badly. Every day there were hundreds of thousands of players
> playing at online poker sites that were outright ripping them off at worst
> or pitting them against far better players at best. I just have to think
> that the number of people who screwed up their credit and finances due to
> playing online is not insignificant.
>
> tvp

2 years ago when I coined the phrase TVSM, I said that it was a matter of
time . I assigned a number of 10 million to the group. I then said that we
could watch as those numbers dwindled . My prediction was based on how
many I had seen come and go in the games i was playing .

I won all my money when the games were at their best . (ask raiderFan
about how good these games were.AT PARTY. I had even assumed that I was a
losing player to Poker Stars until someone dredged up my stats , and
showed that I had actually made a tiny profit.

Attrition got me , just as it got players that were weaker than me . When
I was no longer able to win . I QUIT. My last winning month was July or
August 2005.

This process has always gone on in poker . No matter when you were in
poker , there has always been a "food chain", you and I and everyone else
has always been on it !!

As the numbers of players dwindled on line, the ratio of better players to
weaker players increased.

Many posters on this site have gone from regular stakes to "micro-stakes "
because they are losers who just cant quit . HAPPENS IN EVERY POKER VENUE


  
Date: 07 Dec 2008 09:15:15
From: BeaForoni
Subject: Re: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?
On Dec 7, 8:48=A0am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Dec 7 2008 4:02 AM, Tad Perry wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Rus=
s
> > Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are everywh=
ere.
>
> > How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on =
their
> > house or walk out on a credit card company? How many bankruptcies are
> > related to the increased gambling? I used to look at those online numbe=
rs,
> > and I figured there were thousands of people in trouble, I just couldn'=
t
> > figure out how fast it was working itself out.
>
> > In the real poker world, the poker playing population in local cardroom=
s is
> > way down over seven years ago. It may have been a boom for a while, but=
the
> > newcomer's insistance on wanting to play the same game they saw on
> > television, and the experienced poker players encouraging them to do so=
,
> > seems to have separated a whole lot of people from their money. It's fu=
nny.
> > The poker playing population in the US has never been small. There was =
a
> > large group of us that already had the public poker scene figured out, =
and
> > we could have told you why no-limit poker is saved for tournaments and =
why
> > you'd probably rather relax and play some limit poker when playing on a
> > daily basis, rather than risk going completely broke. There weren't man=
y
> > voices warding these people off. Most of us just took the spoils and th=
ought
> > nothing more of it.
>
> > I was discussing this with a local floorman I know very well recently, =
and
> > he testified that all the missing people are totally broke, and with th=
e
> > economy the way it is, they are left with no method of funding their pl=
ay.
>
> > Going into Parkers Casino (Parkers is in Shoreline--a city that borders=
the
> > North Seattle City Limit.) and finding a high game (anything larger tha=
n
> > 4-8) is a fairly difficult proposition nowadays. A small but loyal grou=
p of
> > customers *wants* to play something high (usually 10-20 w/ a full kill)=
and
> > accidentally runs into each other every so often and starts a game. In =
the
> > past, on any given day, you could count on a game going off in the morn=
ing
> > and lasting all night, usually spawning at least one backup game, if no=
t
> > two, or even three..
>
> > Nope. Those days are GONE. Note that this game has roots that seem to g=
o
> > back into the 1930's. Also note the unique poker culture of Washington
> > State. Basically, going back to frontier days, local bars and restauran=
ts
> > have been allowed to rent out seats to people who wanted to play cards,
> > including poker games and blackjack. In fact, I believe we are the only
> > state that essentially legalized what were once saloons. Such establish=
ments
> > have dotted the landscape around here for Seattle's entire history. Ove=
r
> > time, the gambling laws have changed and now there are higher limits an=
d
> > center dealers. This has resulted in a strange hybrid type of "minicasi=
no"
> > that is now common throughout the area. These are small places with no =
more
> > than 13 tables. These must be part of another business such as a restau=
rant,
> > bar, dance club, or bowling alley.
>
> > Almost everyone left playing in the struggling game at Parkers today ha=
s a
> > good, solid income outside of poker. In fact, over half own their own
> > businesses. It seems that now that we've taken all the poor people's mo=
ney,
> > Barrack is going to try giving it back.
>
> > One funny thing about it: Say you're struggling in life and you've lost=
your
> > job and you can either pay your mortgage, but you know you won't be abl=
e to
> > pay any more after that, or you can gamble up at a poker table and see =
if
> > you can win. How many people would feel like everything's going up in f=
lames
> > anyway, so why not see if they can jump off the cliff one last time and
> > finally fly, saving everything at the last possible moment as in a Holl=
ywood
> > movie?
>
> > I don't know how you measure it, but there must have been some people w=
ho
> > were hurt badly. Every day there were hundreds of thousands of players
> > playing at online poker sites that were outright ripping them off at wo=
rst
> > or pitting them against far better players at best. I just have to thin=
k
> > that the number of people who screwed up their credit and finances due =
to
> > playing online is not insignificant.
>
> > tvp
>
> 2 years ago when I coined the phrase TVSM, I said that it was a matter of
> time . I assigned a number of 10 million to the group. I then said that w=
e
> could watch as those numbers dwindled . My prediction =A0was based on how
> many I had seen come and go in the games i was playing .
>
> I won all my money when the games were at their best . (ask raiderFan
> about how good these games were.AT PARTY. I had even assumed that I was a
> losing player to Poker Stars until someone dredged up my stats , and
> showed that I had actually made a tiny profit.
>
> Attrition got me , just as it got players that were weaker than me . When
> I was no longer able to win . I QUIT. =A0My last winning month was July o=
r
> August =A02005.
>
> This process has always gone on in poker . No matter when you were in
> poker , there has always been a "food chain", you and I and everyone else
> has always been on it !!
>
> As the numbers of players dwindled on line, the ratio of better players t=
o
> weaker players increased.
>
> Many posters on this site have gone from regular stakes to "micro-stakes =
"
> because they are losers who just cant quit . =A0HAPPENS IN EVERY POKER VE=
NUE- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You forgot to mention who is at the top of the food chain; the
casinos. Play long enough, the casinos and the dealer tips will take
it all.

Gambling has come and gone in the past. In the US gambling had
disapeared at least three different times, this may well be the
fourth. Each time it has disapeared it was preceded by a scandle and
an economic downturn. Putting it into perspective is a great book,
Roll the Bones: The History of Gambling by David G. Schwartz It is
about 600 pages and I didn't find a single page boring.


 
Date: 07 Dec 2008 04:37:11
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?
On Dec 7 2008 3:02 AM, Tad Perry wrote:

> Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Russ
> Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are everywhere.
>
> How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on their
> house or walk out on a credit card company? How many bankruptcies are
> related to the increased gambling? I used to look at those online numbers,
> and I figured there were thousands of people in trouble, I just couldn't
> figure out how fast it was working itself out.
>
> In the real poker world, the poker playing population in local cardrooms is
> way down over seven years ago. It may have been a boom for a while, but the
> newcomer's insistance on wanting to play the same game they saw on
> television, and the experienced poker players encouraging them to do so,
> seems to have separated a whole lot of people from their money. It's funny.
> The poker playing population in the US has never been small. There was a
> large group of us that already had the public poker scene figured out, and
> we could have told you why no-limit poker is saved for tournaments and why
> you'd probably rather relax and play some limit poker when playing on a
> daily basis, rather than risk going completely broke. There weren't many
> voices warding these people off. Most of us just took the spoils and thought
> nothing more of it.
>
> I was discussing this with a local floorman I know very well recently, and
> he testified that all the missing people are totally broke, and with the
> economy the way it is, they are left with no method of funding their play.
>
> Going into Parkers Casino (Parkers is in Shoreline--a city that borders the
> North Seattle City Limit.) and finding a high game (anything larger than
> 4-8) is a fairly difficult proposition nowadays. A small but loyal group of
> customers *wants* to play something high (usually 10-20 w/ a full kill) and
> accidentally runs into each other every so often and starts a game. In the
> past, on any given day, you could count on a game going off in the morning
> and lasting all night, usually spawning at least one backup game, if not
> two, or even three..
>
> Nope. Those days are GONE. Note that this game has roots that seem to go
> back into the 1930's. Also note the unique poker culture of Washington
> State. Basically, going back to frontier days, local bars and restaurants
> have been allowed to rent out seats to people who wanted to play cards,
> including poker games and blackjack. In fact, I believe we are the only
> state that essentially legalized what were once saloons. Such establishments
> have dotted the landscape around here for Seattle's entire history. Over
> time, the gambling laws have changed and now there are higher limits and
> center dealers. This has resulted in a strange hybrid type of "minicasino"
> that is now common throughout the area. These are small places with no more
> than 13 tables. These must be part of another business such as a restaurant,
> bar, dance club, or bowling alley.
>
> Almost everyone left playing in the struggling game at Parkers today has a
> good, solid income outside of poker. In fact, over half own their own
> businesses. It seems that now that we've taken all the poor people's money,
> Barrack is going to try giving it back.
>
> One funny thing about it: Say you're struggling in life and you've lost your
> job and you can either pay your mortgage, but you know you won't be able to
> pay any more after that, or you can gamble up at a poker table and see if
> you can win. How many people would feel like everything's going up in flames
> anyway, so why not see if they can jump off the cliff one last time and
> finally fly, saving everything at the last possible moment as in a Hollywood
> movie?
>
> I don't know how you measure it, but there must have been some people who
> were hurt badly. Every day there were hundreds of thousands of players
> playing at online poker sites that were outright ripping them off at worst
> or pitting them against far better players at best. I just have to think
> that the number of people who screwed up their credit and finances due to
> playing online is not insignificant.
>
> tvp

I lost all mine on the Wheel of Fortune except for a small portion that,
thank God, I invested in AIG.

____________________________________________________________________ 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 07 Dec 2008 02:25:44
From: Bill T
Subject: Re: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?
On 12/7/2008 02:02, Tad Perry wrote:
> Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Russ
> Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are everywhere.
>
> How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on their
> house or walk out on a credit card company? How many bankruptcies are
> related to the increased gambling? I used to look at those online numbers,
> and I figured there were thousands of people in trouble, I just couldn't
> figure out how fast it was working itself out.
>
> In the real poker world, the poker playing population in local cardrooms is
> way down over seven years ago. It may have been a boom for a while, but the
> newcomer's insistance on wanting to play the same game they saw on
> television, and the experienced poker players encouraging them to do so,
> seems to have separated a whole lot of people from their money. It's funny.
> The poker playing population in the US has never been small. There was a
> large group of us that already had the public poker scene figured out, and
> we could have told you why no-limit poker is saved for tournaments and why
> you'd probably rather relax and play some limit poker when playing on a
> daily basis, rather than risk going completely broke. There weren't many
> voices warding these people off. Most of us just took the spoils and thought
> nothing more of it.
>
> I was discussing this with a local floorman I know very well recently, and
> he testified that all the missing people are totally broke, and with the
> economy the way it is, they are left with no method of funding their play.
>
> Going into Parkers Casino (Parkers is in Shoreline--a city that borders the
> North Seattle City Limit.) and finding a high game (anything larger than
> 4-8) is a fairly difficult proposition nowadays. A small but loyal group of
> customers *wants* to play something high (usually 10-20 w/ a full kill) and
> accidentally runs into each other every so often and starts a game. In the
> past, on any given day, you could count on a game going off in the morning
> and lasting all night, usually spawning at least one backup game, if not
> two, or even three..
>
> Nope. Those days are GONE. Note that this game has roots that seem to go
> back into the 1930's. Also note the unique poker culture of Washington
> State. Basically, going back to frontier days, local bars and restaurants
> have been allowed to rent out seats to people who wanted to play cards,
> including poker games and blackjack. In fact, I believe we are the only
> state that essentially legalized what were once saloons. Such establishments
> have dotted the landscape around here for Seattle's entire history. Over
> time, the gambling laws have changed and now there are higher limits and
> center dealers. This has resulted in a strange hybrid type of "minicasino"
> that is now common throughout the area. These are small places with no more
> than 13 tables. These must be part of another business such as a restaurant,
> bar, dance club, or bowling alley.
>
> Almost everyone left playing in the struggling game at Parkers today has a
> good, solid income outside of poker. In fact, over half own their own
> businesses. It seems that now that we've taken all the poor people's money,
> Barrack is going to try giving it back.
>
> One funny thing about it: Say you're struggling in life and you've lost your
> job and you can either pay your mortgage, but you know you won't be able to
> pay any more after that, or you can gamble up at a poker table and see if
> you can win. How many people would feel like everything's going up in flames
> anyway, so why not see if they can jump off the cliff one last time and
> finally fly, saving everything at the last possible moment as in a Hollywood
> movie?
>
> I don't know how you measure it, but there must have been some people who
> were hurt badly. Every day there were hundreds of thousands of players
> playing at online poker sites that were outright ripping them off at worst
> or pitting them against far better players at best. I just have to think
> that the number of people who screwed up their credit and finances due to
> playing online is not insignificant.
>
> tvp


You were an English major, right?



  
Date: 07 Dec 2008 02:55:47
From: Tad Perry
Subject: Re: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?
"Bill T" <wctom1@pacbell.net > wrote in message
news:493b6a4e$0$5560$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> On 12/7/2008 02:02, Tad Perry wrote:
> > Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Russ
> > Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are
everywhere.
> >
> > How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on
their
> > house or walk out on a credit card company? How many bankruptcies are
> > related to the increased gambling? I used to look at those online
numbers,
> > and I figured there were thousands of people in trouble, I just couldn't
> > figure out how fast it was working itself out.
> >
> > In the real poker world, the poker playing population in local cardrooms
is
> > way down over seven years ago. It may have been a boom for a while, but
the
> > newcomer's insistance on wanting to play the same game they saw on
> > television, and the experienced poker players encouraging them to do so,
> > seems to have separated a whole lot of people from their money. It's
funny.
> > The poker playing population in the US has never been small. There was a
> > large group of us that already had the public poker scene figured out,
and
> > we could have told you why no-limit poker is saved for tournaments and
why
> > you'd probably rather relax and play some limit poker when playing on a
> > daily basis, rather than risk going completely broke. There weren't many
> > voices warding these people off. Most of us just took the spoils and
thought
> > nothing more of it.
> >
> > I was discussing this with a local floorman I know very well recently,
and
> > he testified that all the missing people are totally broke, and with the
> > economy the way it is, they are left with no method of funding their
play.
> >
> > Going into Parkers Casino (Parkers is in Shoreline--a city that borders
the
> > North Seattle City Limit.) and finding a high game (anything larger than
> > 4-8) is a fairly difficult proposition nowadays. A small but loyal group
of
> > customers *wants* to play something high (usually 10-20 w/ a full kill)
and
> > accidentally runs into each other every so often and starts a game. In
the
> > past, on any given day, you could count on a game going off in the
morning
> > and lasting all night, usually spawning at least one backup game, if not
> > two, or even three..
> >
> > Nope. Those days are GONE. Note that this game has roots that seem to go
> > back into the 1930's. Also note the unique poker culture of Washington
> > State. Basically, going back to frontier days, local bars and
restaurants
> > have been allowed to rent out seats to people who wanted to play cards,
> > including poker games and blackjack. In fact, I believe we are the only
> > state that essentially legalized what were once saloons. Such
establishments
> > have dotted the landscape around here for Seattle's entire history. Over
> > time, the gambling laws have changed and now there are higher limits and
> > center dealers. This has resulted in a strange hybrid type of
"minicasino"
> > that is now common throughout the area. These are small places with no
more
> > than 13 tables. These must be part of another business such as a
restaurant,
> > bar, dance club, or bowling alley.
> >
> > Almost everyone left playing in the struggling game at Parkers today has
a
> > good, solid income outside of poker. In fact, over half own their own
> > businesses. It seems that now that we've taken all the poor people's
money,
> > Barrack is going to try giving it back.
> >
> > One funny thing about it: Say you're struggling in life and you've lost
your
> > job and you can either pay your mortgage, but you know you won't be able
to
> > pay any more after that, or you can gamble up at a poker table and see
if
> > you can win. How many people would feel like everything's going up in
flames
> > anyway, so why not see if they can jump off the cliff one last time and
> > finally fly, saving everything at the last possible moment as in a
Hollywood
> > movie?
> >
> > I don't know how you measure it, but there must have been some people
who
> > were hurt badly. Every day there were hundreds of thousands of players
> > playing at online poker sites that were outright ripping them off at
worst
> > or pitting them against far better players at best. I just have to think
> > that the number of people who screwed up their credit and finances due
to
> > playing online is not insignificant.
> >
> > tvp
>
> You were an English major, right?

Not me. (Japanese Language and Linguistics)

tvp




 
Date: 07 Dec 2008 04:22:25
From: pokertoker
Subject: Re: Online poker the missing piece to US economic collapse?

"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:ghg707$c3c$1@news.motzarella.org...
> Computers are everywhere. Chris Moneymaker wannabes are everywhere. Russ
> Hamiltons that will cheat you out of the shirt on your back are
everywhere.
>
> How many of these online players lost enough to go into foreclosure on
their
> house or walk out on a credit card company?
>

I saw this guy in Florida being interviewed on the news this evening. The
spot was about the growing number of foreclosures. Can't remember which show
it was. He was a real estate developer that built condos. The interview was
at his house. They showed the kids, the wife and the 'very' nice house,
cars, etc. Business was more than slow. Nobody was buying condos. His story
was that he, and I quote, "I just got tired of dipping into our savings and
selling stocks, just to pay the mortgage. So three months ago I stopped
paying the mortgage and we are in foreclosure now." WTF! The news guy doing
the interview actually sounded sorry for the guy as if it wasn't his fault!
He had "savings & stocks," but he just got tired of selling them to pay his
mortgage. So he went into default! Fucking welch. I'm sure Obama will bail
him out reallllll soon.

--
Duncan McPT - Highlander,
"It is no measure of good health to be well-adjusted in a profoundly sick
society."
Krishnamurti