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Date: 11 Feb 2009 14:58:16
From: lawhonac@HiWAAY.net
Subject: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
Here's a new one for me - a poker-related question!

In Omaha/8, I have been under the impression that when two hands are
being compared for low, the hand with the Ace, (i.e. the lowest =E2=80=9Clo=
w
card=E2=80=9D of the low), is (usually) the best low. However, I=E2=80=99m=
not sure
if that is really the case. Please examine the following hand and
tell me if Player A (or Player B) has the best low hand.

Player A=E2=80=99s Hand: A=E2=99=A3 K=E2=99=A6 Q=E2=99=A6 8=E2=99=A5

Board: 8=E2=99=A0 6=E2=99=A0 5=E2=99=A0 3=E2=99=A0 2=E2=
=99=A3

Player B=E2=80=99s Hand: Q=E2=99=A0 9=E2=99=A0 7=E2=99=A3 2=E2=99=A5

Player B wins the high half with a 9-high straight. Does Player B
also win the low half because his 7-high low, (i.e. 7=E2=99=A3 6=E2=99=A0 5=
=E2=99=A0 3=E2=99=A0 2=E2=99=A5),
is a better low than Player A=E2=80=99s 8-high low, (i.e. 8=E2=99=A5 5=E2=
=99=A0 3=E2=99=A0 2=E2=99=A3 A=E2=99=A3)?

Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
=E2=80=9Chigh card=E2=80=9D of your five-card low that determines the best =
low hand?

Alan =E2=80=9CStill Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8=E2=80=9D Lawhon
Huntsville, Alabama





 
Date: 11 Feb 2009 19:01:40
From: Peter Secor
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
>
>Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
>high card of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
>
>Alan Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8 Lawhon
>Huntsville, Alabama

Simple low comparison:
Think of the hands as a number, High card to low card. Lowest number
wins.

Best,

Peter
--
http://zbigniew.pyrzqxgl.com/bargegeek.html
A+++ G++ PKR+ PEG- B+ TB ADB++ M
www.barge.org
"There are no strangers at BARGE, just friends we haven't met yet"


  
Date: 12 Feb 2009 07:54:34
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 9:01 PM, Peter Secor wrote:

> >
> >Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> >high card of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
> >
> >Alan Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8 Lawhon
> >Huntsville, Alabama
>
> Simple low comparison:
> Think of the hands as a number, High card to low card. Lowest number
> wins.
>
> Best,
>
> Peter

OR SIMPLY LEARN TO READ THE BOARD !!
> --
> http://zbigniew.pyrzqxgl.com/bargegeek.html
> A+++ G++ PKR+ PEG- B+ TB ADB++ M
> www.barge.org
> "There are no strangers at BARGE, just friends we haven't met yet"


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 16:59:49
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:

> Alan “Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8” Lawhon

You've been playing Omaha for a year but still can't read a board. Shall
we dig out some of those posts where you were bragging about how good you
were at the game?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 23:48:12
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question

"XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:5t8c66xsqs.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:
>
>> Alan ?oStill Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8? Lawhon
>
> You've been playing Omaha for a year but still can't read a board. Shall
> we dig out some of those posts where you were bragging about how good you
> were at the game?
>

Hey, half the time you're better off not knowing exactly what you have.




 
Date: 11 Feb 2009 16:56:31
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:

> Here's a new one for me - a poker-related question!
>
> In Omaha/8, I have been under the impression that when two hands are
> being compared for low, the hand with the Ace, (i.e. the lowest “low
> card” of the low), is (usually) the best low. However, I’m not sure
> if that is really the case. Please examine the following hand and
> tell me if Player A (or Player B) has the best low hand.
>
> Player A’s Hand: A♣ K♦ Q♦ 8♥
>
> Board: 8♠ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
>
> Player B’s Hand: Q♠ 9♠ 7♣ 2♥
>
> Player B wins the high half with a 9-high straight. Does Player B
> also win the low half because his 7-high low, (i.e. 7♣ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠
2♥),
> is a better low than Player A’s 8-high low, (i.e. 8♥ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
A♣)?
>
> Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> “high card” of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
>
> Alan “Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8” Lawhon
> Huntsville, Alabama

if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 06:34:26
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
"FangBanger"

> if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low


This is another example of your tendency to simplify, but the result is more
confusion.

You CAN "have an ace and an 8" and you can beat all 7 lows ... for low.

1238 might be a pretty good hand for low where your competition has a 7 low
or even a 6 low.

You discuss the "live ace" in a way that the OP could not possible
understand.

Alan was seeking some really basic information. Your answer was not only
incorrect (because it was incomplete), it would not assist an inexperienced
player at all.

If Alan has been playing Omaha8 for longer than a day and still does not
know how to read the board, he is not alone, but it is still a surprise. He
has not yet revealed that he often thinks he has a full house when he flops
a set and the board pairs.

Be unpretentious, for once, dog ... when you started playing O8, you made
the same mistakes!




   
Date: 12 Feb 2009 07:52:08
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 12 2009 6:34 AM, da pickle wrote:

> "FangBanger"
>
> > if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low
>
>
> This is another example of your tendency to simplify, but the result is more
> confusion.
>
> You CAN "have an ace and an 8" and you can beat all 7 lows ... for low.

BAD TROLL .. If your 4 card hand has an A and an 8 and 2 cards bigger
than an 8, you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BEAT ANYONE WHO HAS ANY "7 LOW"

Hint .. when someone has a "7 low" that means all the cards are out and
that is his 5 card hand
>
> 1238 might be a pretty good hand for low where your competition has a 7 low
> or even a 6 low.
>
> You discuss the "live ace" in a way that the OP could not possible
> understand.

not my fault
>
> Alan was seeking some really basic information. Your answer was not only
> incorrect (because it was incomplete), it would not assist an inexperienced
> player at all.

it is absolutely accurate and extremely easy to understand
>
> If Alan has been playing Omaha8 for longer than a day and still does not
> know how to read the board, he is not alone, but it is still a surprise. He
> has not yet revealed that he often thinks he has a full house when he flops
> a set and the board pairs.
>
> Be unpretentious, for once, dog ... when you started playing O8, you made
> the same mistakes!

Nope .. I played low ball for years . I understood the "low" concepts
before I ever saw the game .

If this isnt a troll , man you need help !!


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 12 Feb 2009 12:23:09
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
"FangBanger"

>> > if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low
>>
>> This is another example of your tendency to simplify, but the result is
>> more
>> confusion.
>>
>> You CAN "have an ace and an 8" and you can beat all 7 lows ... for low.
>
> BAD TROLL .. If your 4 card hand has an A and an 8 and 2 cards bigger
> than an 8, you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BEAT ANYONE WHO HAS ANY "7 LOW"

But ... ... but that is NOT what you said.

If you had said that, you would have been correct.

You should say what you mean.

(Actually, saying that a 7 low beats an 8 low would have been easier ... and
correct as well.)

(You might have even said a lower low beats higher lows ... that would have
been correct as well.)




     
Date: 12 Feb 2009 16:50:00
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 12 2009 12:23 PM, da pickle wrote:

> "FangBanger"
>
> >> > if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low
> >>
> >> This is another example of your tendency to simplify, but the result is
> >> more
> >> confusion.
> >>
> >> You CAN "have an ace and an 8" and you can beat all 7 lows ... for low.
> >
> > BAD TROLL .. If your 4 card hand has an A and an 8 and 2 cards bigger
> > than an 8, you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BEAT ANYONE WHO HAS ANY "7 LOW"
>
> But ... ... but that is NOT what you said.
>
> If you had said that, you would have been correct.
>
> You should say what you mean.
>
> (Actually, saying that a 7 low beats an 8 low would have been easier ... and
> correct as well.)
>
> (You might have even said a lower low beats higher lows ... that would have
> been correct as well.)

I said if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cant beat any 'seven low"

I will stand by that !!


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



      
Date: 12 Feb 2009 16:53:14
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 12 2009 7:50 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Feb 12 2009 12:23 PM, da pickle wrote:
>
> > "FangBanger"
> >
> > >> > if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low
> > >>
> > >> This is another example of your tendency to simplify, but the result is
> > >> more
> > >> confusion.
> > >>
> > >> You CAN "have an ace and an 8" and you can beat all 7 lows ... for low.
> > >
> > > BAD TROLL .. If your 4 card hand has an A and an 8 and 2 cards bigger
> > > than an 8, you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BEAT ANYONE WHO HAS ANY "7 LOW"
> >
> > But ... ... but that is NOT what you said.
> >
> > If you had said that, you would have been correct.
> >
> > You should say what you mean.
> >
> > (Actually, saying that a 7 low beats an 8 low would have been easier ...
and
> > correct as well.)
> >
> > (You might have even said a lower low beats higher lows ... that would
have
> > been correct as well.)
>
> I said if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cant beat any 'seven low"
>
> I will stand by that !!
>
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

I'll take that bet.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 18:26:46
From: bgadams
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 8:56 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:
>
> > Here's a new one for me - a poker-related question!
> >
> > In Omaha/8, I have been under the impression that when two hands are
> > being compared for low, the hand with the Ace, (i.e. the lowest “low
> > card” of the low), is (usually) the best low. However, I’m not sure
> > if that is really the case. Please examine the following hand and
> > tell me if Player A (or Player B) has the best low hand.
> >
> > Player A’s Hand: A♣ K♦ Q♦ 8♥
> >
> > Board: 8♠ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
> >
> > Player B’s Hand: Q♠ 9♠ 7♣ 2♥
> >
> > Player B wins the high half with a 9-high straight. Does Player B
> > also win the low half because his 7-high low, (i.e. 7♣ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠
> 2♥),
> > is a better low than Player A’s 8-high low, (i.e. 8♥ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
> A♣)?
> >
> > Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> > “high card” of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
> >
> > Alan “Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8” Lawhon
> > Huntsville, Alabama
>
> if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> Voltaire

Damn....... now I can see why I always lose at that game... never played
much, but I didn't understand that most basic rule...... who says you
cant learn something about poker on rgp?

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 20:05:30
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 8:26 PM, bgadams wrote:

> On Feb 11 2009 8:56 PM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:
> >
> > > Here's a new one for me - a poker-related question!
> > >
> > > In Omaha/8, I have been under the impression that when two hands are
> > > being compared for low, the hand with the Ace, (i.e. the lowest “low
> > > card” of the low), is (usually) the best low. However, I’m not sure
> > > if that is really the case. Please examine the following hand and
> > > tell me if Player A (or Player B) has the best low hand.
> > >
> > > Player A’s Hand: A♣ K♦ Q♦ 8♥
> > >
> > > Board: 8♠ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
> > >
> > > Player B’s Hand: Q♠ 9♠ 7♣ 2♥
> > >
> > > Player B wins the high half with a 9-high straight. Does Player B
> > > also win the low half because his 7-high low, (i.e. 7♣ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠
> > 2♥),
> > > is a better low than Player A’s 8-high low, (i.e. 8♥ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
> > A♣)?
> > >
> > > Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> > > “high card” of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
> > >
> > > Alan “Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8” Lawhon
> > > Huntsville, Alabama
> >
> > if you have an ace and an 8 .. you cannot beat any 'seven " low
> >
> > Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
> > Voltaire
>
> Damn....... now I can see why I always lose at that game... never played
> much, but I didn't understand that most basic rule...... who says you
> cant learn something about poker on rgp?

You would be surprised at how many times I have settled an arguemnt at the
showdown when someone doesnt understand that he doesnt have a "live ace"
in this exact spot .
Happens a lot when there are 4 parts to a 6 lo on the board

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 17:56:55
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
<lawhonac@HiWAAY.net > wrote

Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
"high card" of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
=========================

Reading the low is always difficult for new Omaha8 players.

Your example is one where both of the players that have only one card that
"plays" and their other card is counterfeited.

Many starting Omaha8 players make the mistake of reading the low by starting
at the "bottom" ... it is easier to put both of the "low hands" out and
decide which one would win if you were considering them "high" ... the one
that wins if it was high loses the low.

You do count from the top down, not the bottom up.

Also interesting is the one where the A hand is beat and there is no
counterfeit.

Player A ... ... KJ8A
Player B ... ... KQ76

Board 245JQ

B scoops ... 7 low and a pair of Qs

Great game Omaha8.




  
Date: 11 Feb 2009 16:59:41
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 5:56 PM, da pickle wrote:

> <lawhonac@HiWAAY.net> wrote
>
> Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> "high card" of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
> =========================
>
> Reading the low is always difficult for new Omaha8 players.
>
> Your example is one where both of the players that have only one card that
> "plays" and their other card is counterfeited.
>
> Many starting Omaha8 players make the mistake of reading the low by starting
> at the "bottom" ... it is easier to put both of the "low hands" out and
> decide which one would win if you were considering them "high" ... the one
> that wins if it was high loses the low.
>
> You do count from the top down, not the bottom up.
>
> Also interesting is the one where the A hand is beat and there is no
> counterfeit.
>
> Player A ... ... KJ8A
> Player B ... ... KQ76
>
> Board 245JQ
>
> B scoops ... 7 low and a pair of Qs

And why would anyone find that "interesting "? pretty much abc
>
> Great game Omaha8.


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 15:21:57
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
> Player B wins the high half with a 9-high straight. Does Player B
> also win the low half because his 7-high low, (i.e. 7♣ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠
2♥),
> is a better low than Player A’s 8-high low, (i.e. 8♥ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
A♣)?
>
> Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> “high card” of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?

It is just the opposite of high hand, so the 7 low wins. Think of two high
card hands:

K 5 4 3 2 vs Q J T 9 7

King high wins regardless of the other 4 cards (assuming no straight or
flush). If they were going for low then the Q low wins (nevermind the 8
qualifier).

Dean

"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 15:19:23
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:

> Here's a new one for me - a poker-related question!
>
> In Omaha/8, I have been under the impression that when two hands are
> being compared for low, the hand with the Ace, (i.e. the lowest “low
> card” of the low), is (usually) the best low. However, I’m not sure
> if that is really the case. Please examine the following hand and
> tell me if Player A (or Player B) has the best low hand.
>
> Player A’s Hand: A♣ K♦ Q♦ 8♥
>
> Board: 8♠ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
>
> Player B’s Hand: Q♠ 9♠ 7♣ 2♥
>
> Player B wins the high half with a 9-high straight. Does Player B
> also win the low half because his 7-high low, (i.e. 7♣ 6♠ 5♠ 3♠
2♥),
> is a better low than Player A’s 8-high low, (i.e. 8♥ 5♠ 3♠ 2♣
A♣)?
>
> Stated another way, when comparing two hands for low, is it the lowest
> “high card” of your five-card low that determines the best low hand?
>
> Alan “Still Trying to Figure Out Omaha/8” Lawhon
> Huntsville, Alabama

Assuming I read that hash of TM and euro symbols correctly, yes, a 7 low
does beat an 8 low. Your impression that aces are typically involved in
wins for low is true simply because the nut low and second nut low
frequently contain an ace (roughly half the time). For example the nut
low would be A4 in this case and the second nut low would be A plus any of
{2,3,5,6}.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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Date: 11 Feb 2009 15:17:46
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Omaha/8 Hand Reading Question
On Feb 11 2009 4:58 PM, lawhonac@HiWAAY.net wrote:

> Here's a new one for me - a poker-related question!

> Player A’s Hand: A♣ K♦ Q♦ 8♥

Why do you bother us with this bullshit? It's common poker 101 knowledge
that any time you hold the A♣ you move all-in, regardless of any and
all previous action.

Even someone as simple as you should know that.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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