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Date: 26 Jan 2009 00:07:46
From: j0hnnyzer0
Subject: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
Hello all!

I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
$1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.

The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.

My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
you much room to make any plays.

Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
people will be playing to loose.

I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table after
the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.

Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
for your time,

Johnny

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Date: 27 Jan 2009 10:35:41
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
Just give them what they want and stop whining about it.


On Jan 26 2009 3:07 AM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.
>
> The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.
>
> My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
> everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
> you much room to make any plays.
>
> Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
> at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
> people will be playing to loose.
>
> I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
> played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
> folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
> were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table after
> the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.
>
> Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
> for your time,
>
> Johnny

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Date: 27 Jan 2009 13:28:27
From: j0hnnyzer0
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
Thanks douche-bag, I'll keep that in mind. Your valuable input has been
noted, burned and forgotten about.



On Jan 27 2009 10:35 AM, garycarson wrote:

> Just give them what they want and stop whining about it.
>
>
> On Jan 26 2009 3:07 AM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:
>
> > Hello all!
> >
> > I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> > looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> > cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> > mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> > $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> > a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.
> >
> > The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> > for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.
> >
> > My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
> > everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
> > you much room to make any plays.
> >
> > Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
> > at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
> > people will be playing to loose.
> >
> > I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
> > played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
> > folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
> > were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table after
> > the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.
> >
> > Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
> > for your time,
> >
> > Johnny

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Date: 27 Jan 2009 21:16:34
From: La Cosa Nostradamus
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 27 2009 4:28 PM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Thanks douche-bag, I'll keep that in mind. Your valuable input has been
> noted, burned and forgotten about.
>
>
>
> On Jan 27 2009 10:35 AM, garycarson wrote:
>
> > Just give them what they want and stop whining about it.
not sure who is funnier here

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Date: 27 Jan 2009 13:51:49
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 27 2009 3:28 PM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Thanks douche-bag, I'll keep that in mind. Your valuable input has been
> noted, burned and forgotten about.

Gary wrote a book too if you need more kindling.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 28 Jan 2009 02:55:17
From: Beldin the Sorcerer
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!

"XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:l8c456xoue.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 27 2009 3:28 PM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:
>
>> Thanks douche-bag, I'll keep that in mind. Your valuable input has been
>> noted, burned and forgotten about.
>
> Gary wrote a book too if you need more kindling.
Carson's book is fine. It's insightful, worthwhile, and has been stolen from
by other authors.

HE can be an asshole. That doesn't negate his product's value.




 
Date: 26 Jan 2009 10:28:35
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 26 2009 2:07 AM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.
>
> The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.
>
> My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
> everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
> you much room to make any plays.
>
> Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
> at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
> people will be playing to loose.
>
> I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
> played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
> folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
> were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table after
> the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.
>
> Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
> for your time,
>
> Johnny

I think the different players have different goals here.

A 20 big blind deep game is going to have a lot of crapshoot elements to
it. There's not enough money behind to make really skillful plays. So if
you want to play a game where skill predominates, play the deeper game
with smaller blinds.

Just be aware that the other players may just want to have money moving
around. They don't care if it's due to skill or luck. So for them the
bigger blinds may make it more fun. They may also have a lot of
misconceptions about the effects of various structures on NL games - for
example, large blinds does NOT make it correct to play tight. It make it
correct to play a more limit-like hand selection, which is a very
different thing.

I guess in the long run you have to do whatever people want if you want
them to come back. I don't know what else to tell you. My home game is
usually $1/2, no cap, and sometimes prohibits limping depending on who's
playing - minimum to come in is $5. That's probably exactly what you
don't want though as there are definitely people in for four figures.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 08:56:08
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
> The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.

At my home game we do a $20 buy-in with .25/.50 blinds. The blinds don't
matter as the standard raise is to $2.50 or $3 with multiple callers, but
we have a lot of limping as well. I can't remember a single hand that was
folded around to the big blind. Our game is a little richer than yours as
most players come with $100 or more. We allow rebuys (or adding money) of
any amount at any time, just a $20 min for buying in or rebuying. We have
a few guys that straddle (I encourage them). By the end of the night a few
pots will reach $100+ and our largest pot last year was $401.

What's the smallest chip denomination? If it is .10 then I would do
10/.25 blinds. I would also make my standard raise .75 or 1.00 depending
on how loose the game is.

Dean

"First of all, I cannot see Bookworm's post in my newsreader. Probably
just as well, he annoys the fuck out of me anyway." PP - Dec 29, 2008

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 08:18:58
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
> I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.

Do tournies @ 10.00 a pop so you can have more than one. Depending on the
number of people involved it will make for a better time. Guys can set up
a side cash game after they bust out if the field is big enough.

========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
========
BOOM byae
John

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 08:03:23
From: YYZ
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 26, 12:07=A0am, "j0hnnyzer0" <a536...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.
>
> The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.
>
> My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
> everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
> you much room to make any plays.
>
> Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
> at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
> people will be playing to loose.
>
> I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
> played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
> folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
> were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table afte=
r
> the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.
>
> Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank yo=
u
> for your time,
>
> Johnny
>
> ____________________________________________________________________=A0
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? -www.recgroups.com

Tell your buddie(s) who wants to play with the ridiculously large
blinds that he can just raise to $0.25 or $0.50 BLIND any old time he
wants, in fact he can do it every hand. Dont'l let morons dictate the
structure of the game.


 
Date: 26 Jan 2009 07:41:32
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 26 2009 2:07 AM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
> for your time,

What's the overall goal for your game? I mean, when it all comes down to
it, why are you having the game? Are you having the game to make money
and poker is the catalyst, or are you having the game to have fun? A few
stories:

At one place of work the team I was on was so sick of us talking about
poker at lunch they made us teach them how to play. I held a monthly game
at my house that started out as just a freeroll. After 5-6 times people
wanted to play for "something" so we put a buck or two in and paid the top
2. Of all the games I've had as far as players showing up this has been
the most successful. The night I had the most people show up was during
the worst snowstorm of the year.

Next story: I was running somewhat home games with a single tournament
paying the top 2 or whatever depending on who showed. There was a
perceived issue (on my part) that people didn't like tournaments because
as soon as they busted out they didn't have anything to do. So I had a
cash game. We decided on $40 buyin, 25c/50c blinds, rebuys whenever up to
$40, play until people get bored and go home. 8 showed up, 4 rebought,
only 3 left with money. It made for some good poker, but it was brutally
serious. Some of these guys were sweating over losing $20, and it seemed
like every other pot was over $80. I thought it was great from the poker
aspect, but the fact that no one was having any fun ruined the entire
point of having a home game. If I want to play a "serious" game for money
I'll go online and play. But if I'm having people in my home I want it to
be a fun time.

The format we found that works best is a $20 tournament. We allow rebuys
until the first break or so, but only when you bust. We've also tried
adding bounties: pay $5 to the person who busts you. This makes for an
enjoyable atmosphere and a genuinely fun time.

So after all this, my recommendation is to play a tournament with
escalating blinds instead of a cash game. Good luck with it whatever you
decide.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 10:05:18
From: j0hnnyzer0
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
> The format we found that works best is a $20 tournament. We allow re-buys
> until the first break or so, but only when you bust. We've also tried
> adding bounties: pay $5 to the person who busts you. This makes for an
> enjoyable atmosphere and a genuinely fun time.
>
> So after all this, my recommendation is to play a tournament with
> escalating blinds instead of a cash game. Good luck with it whatever you
> decide.

First of all, thank you all for the great responses! We're going to try a
cash game this week and a tournament style the week after and then let
everyone decide which they like best. The bounties are a great idea too,
so thanks for that XaQ!

Fell, you said "If your opponents truly are playing too tight if you had
$1/$2 blinds and
$20-$40 buy-ins, then they are playing poorly, and should be easily
exploitable." I'm just wondering if this means it's reasonable to play
$1/$2 with only $20-$40 or just that it's <i >possible</i>.

Arlo, spread limit suggestion certainly reasonable, but I think with this
lot, it just wouldn't work, what with the varying degree's of skull
thickness and memory retention on display...i just don't think it would
work.

Personally, I'm just looking to have fun, and not bankrupt my friends.
It's only recently that it's been called into question because a few guys
(2 of 8) don't think they can take it seriously. The thing that bothers me
about that is, everyone else is playing 10c/20c the same as they would
$1/$2. So far no one's really trying to limp in with complete garbage
because it's only 20 cents and people will fold to 80cent bets.

Is there a way to change these bastards minds? Something involving bricks,
perhaps? I say poker is about how you play, not how much you win (in terms
of relativity). They say 10c/20c is unheard of.

And yes, there are re-buys. Even when playing a short handed (5 people)
game there'll be $150-$200 in play. The last game I played with this lot
I'd guess our average pot was around $3-$5.

/
johnny

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 13:35:36
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 26 2009 1:05 PM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> > The format we found that works best is a $20 tournament. We allow re-buys
> > until the first break or so, but only when you bust. We've also tried
> > adding bounties: pay $5 to the person who busts you. This makes for an
> > enjoyable atmosphere and a genuinely fun time.
> >
> > So after all this, my recommendation is to play a tournament with
> > escalating blinds instead of a cash game. Good luck with it whatever you
> > decide.
>
> First of all, thank you all for the great responses! We're going to try a
> cash game this week and a tournament style the week after and then let
> everyone decide which they like best. The bounties are a great idea too,
> so thanks for that XaQ!
>
> Fell, you said "If your opponents truly are playing too tight if you had
> $1/$2 blinds and
> $20-$40 buy-ins, then they are playing poorly, and should be easily
> exploitable." I'm just wondering if this means it's reasonable to play
> $1/$2 with only $20-$40 or just that it's <i>possible</i>.

It is perhaps not the ideal situation, but it may be possible to win more
with those blinds than in a tight 0.10/0.20 game.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 04:10:25
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 26 2009 3:07 AM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.
>
> The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.
>
> My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
> everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
> you much room to make any plays.
>
> Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
> at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
> people will be playing to loose.
>
> I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
> played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
> folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
> were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table after
> the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.
>
> Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
> for your time,
>
> Johnny

There is very little inherently right or wrong about having 100xBB stacks.
I played in a $0.5/$0.5 NL game with average pots of $50. It did not
matter to them what the blinds were, they could have been 1 penny/2 penny,
people would still raise to $5 preflop and get called 5 ways.

I would suggest that you compromise with what your players want. They
want a good time, not to replicate the casino experience in every way.
$0.25/$0.50, $0.50/$0.50 or $0.50/$1.00 blinds all seem fine for a $20 to
$40 buyin (you didn't mention re-buys).

If your opponents truly are playing too tight if you had $1/$2 blinds and
$20-$40 buyins, then they are playing poorly, and should be easily
exploitable.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 26 Jan 2009 01:16:16
From: Arlo-Payne
Subject: Re: Need help with a home game problem I'm having!!
On Jan 26 2009 1:07 AM, j0hnnyzer0 wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> I'm having a hard time organizing a small NL holdem home game and am
> looking for advice any one of you might have to offer. I want to play a
> cash game, with a buy-in of $20, blinds at 10c/20c. This seems
> mathematically correct, as in the casino's I play at the buy-ins for a
> $1/$2 game max out at $200. I know it's not a lot of money, but we're not
> a rich lot, and we're mostly just playing for fun anyways.
>
> The problem I'm having is a few people are saying we should just buy-in
> for $20-$40 dollars and play with the blinds at $1/$2 and play tighter.
>
> My argument is that with the blinds that high, and with such a low buy-in
> everyone is going to be playing too tight and it just doesn't really give
> you much room to make any plays.
>
> Their argument seems to be that the blinds don't really matter, and that
> at 10c/20c they're not going to see a lot of money on the table and/or
> people will be playing to loose.
>
> I should mention though, the last time we played (with other people) we
> played 10c/20c and people were still folding to 60/80c bets pre-flop,
> folding their garbage hands and playing a reasonably tight game. Also, we
> were playing four handed and buy the end had about $150 on the table after
> the re-buys, which seems like enough money to me.
>
> Anyways, I'm really hoping you guys can help me out on this one, thank you
> for your time,
>
> Johnny

Well there are a few things you could try.
You could try blinds ar .25 .50 and play spread limit with say a $5 max
bet.
Or you could have the .25 .50 blinds and play a cap game with a max total
per player bet per hand of say $10 or $20.

The 10 20 cent blinds just give off the mindset of the game just being
more than penny ante game.

By using a spread limit or cap bet format you can still play for money
that would be high enough for people to play their best without anyone
getting hurt real bad.

The last thing you want is a game with friends played for fun turning into
something where people blow off more money than they should and where
feelings could get hurt. Plus if your players blow off to much money your
game will die quickly and friiends might become ex freinds.

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