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Date: 27 Jan 2009 09:59:25
From: Arlo-Payne
Subject: Layoffs and other crap
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I just hate it all these days. So many people are getting layed off with
nothing but hard times in sight. At the same time the banks are getting a
ton of money from the tax payers are it apperars they are stealing most of
it or spending it on new company toys.
Instead of giving the car industry money the goverment should just buy
cars from them and have a lotto to give them away or sell them at half
price. This would keep the workers employed at least.
I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money would
be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of what
they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
--------
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Date: 28 Jan 2009 10:51:31
From: Stephen Jacobs
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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"Arlo-Payne" <arlo_payne@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:tku356xjfc.ln2@recgroups.com...
...........
>
> I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
> no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
> down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
> considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion.
The problem is largely that the way things got repackaged made everything
much worse. Mortgages got pooled: a pool containing more than a very few
bad mortgages becomes impossible to value (the old comparison is that if you
put a cup of fine wine in a berrel of sewage, you get a barrel of sewage; if
you put a cup of sewage in a barrel of fine wine...you get a barrel of
sewage). There was also a lot of laying-off of risks from one player to
another (a LOT: estimates run to 50 times as much in supposed hedges as in
original loans). Here's where some regulation could have prevented a lot of
trouble: all those "hedge" transactions were negotiated from scratch. If
there was some uniformity among them, they would reduce the risk to any
single player, just as they purported to do. But they all settle at
different times, on different terms, depending on conditions that sometimes
can't be determined in a disorderly market. So in the short-to-medium term,
they multiply the risk instead of spreading it around.
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 16:39:42
From: ChrisRobin
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Jan 27 2009 12:59 PM, Arlo-Payne wrote:
> I just hate it all these days. So many people are getting layed off with
> nothing but hard times in sight. At the same time the banks are getting a
> ton of money from the tax payers are it apperars they are stealing most of
> it or spending it on new company toys.
>
> Instead of giving the car industry money the goverment should just buy
> cars from them and have a lotto to give them away or sell them at half
> price. This would keep the workers employed at least.
>
> I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
> no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
> down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
> considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money would
> be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of what
> they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
> housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
They are actually much, much more than a trillion underwater. The bailout
is absolutely pointless because there's no amount of funny money you can
print to even make them solvent. That's what happens when you build an
unregulated house of cards on credit and leverage.
We're witnessing the smash-and-grab before it all comes crashing down.
________________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 18:16:07
From: CheckRazor
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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There is a way to express 90=A2 as opposed to $.90. The secret is to
hold down the alt button while typing 155. In fact, you can get all
kinds of weird symbols while holding down the alt button and typing
random numbers. I think this is all part of the New-World order stuff
that Paul Popinjay and Razzo talk about.
Just my 2=A2.
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 19:46:57
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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"CheckRazor" <Luv2skibumps_222@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1817c9c3-76a6-45ec-91e9-c74c43affe75@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
There is a way to express 90¢ as opposed to $.90. The secret is to
hold down the alt button while typing 155. In fact, you can get all
kinds of weird symbols while holding down the alt button and typing
random numbers. I think this is all part of the New-World order stuff
that Paul Popinjay and Razzo talk about.
Just my 2¢.
******************************************
You've possibly seen some of my ramblings. I always take the long way home.
Robert Ladd
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 20:38:38
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:16:07 -0800 (PST), CheckRazor
<Luv2skibumps_222@hotmail.com > wrote:
>There is a way to express 90¢ as opposed to $.90. The secret is to
>hold down the alt button while typing 155. In fact, you can get all
>kinds of weird symbols while holding down the alt button and typing
>random numbers. I think this is all part of the New-World order stuff
>that Paul Popinjay and Razzo talk about.
>
>Just my 2¢.
You big Blabbermouth.
RGP is not mature enough to responsibly handle that information.
There is nothing good that could come from that.
It's the moral equivalent of handing a loaded gun to a 4 year old.
I am disgusted.
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 20:10:51
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:39:42 -0800, "ChrisRobin"
<a9dbf1e@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
>On Jan 27 2009 12:59 PM, Arlo-Payne wrote:
>
>> I just hate it all these days. So many people are getting layed off with
>> nothing but hard times in sight. At the same time the banks are getting a
>> ton of money from the tax payers are it apperars they are stealing most of
>> it or spending it on new company toys.
>>
>> Instead of giving the car industry money the goverment should just buy
>> cars from them and have a lotto to give them away or sell them at half
>> price. This would keep the workers employed at least.
>>
>> I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
>> no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
>> down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
>> considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money would
>> be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of what
>> they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
>> housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
>
>They are actually much, much more than a trillion underwater. The bailout
>is absolutely pointless because there's no amount of funny money you can
>print to even make them solvent. That's what happens when you build an
>unregulated house of cards on credit and leverage.
>
>We're witnessing the smash-and-grab before it all comes crashing down.
>
You don't think that it already has come crashing down?
Are you predicting a "Greater Depression"?
Now, I'm not arguing (yet), but just wondering what information you
have.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"They told me: 'Cheer up, things could get worse' "
" So I cheered up and sure enough, things got worse"
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 23:06:49
From: ChrisRobin
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Jan 27 2009 9:10 PM, FL Turbo wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:39:42 -0800, "ChrisRobin"
> <a9dbf1e@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Jan 27 2009 12:59 PM, Arlo-Payne wrote:
> >
> >> I just hate it all these days. So many people are getting layed off with
> >> nothing but hard times in sight. At the same time the banks are getting a
> >> ton of money from the tax payers are it apperars they are stealing most of
> >> it or spending it on new company toys.
> >>
> >> Instead of giving the car industry money the goverment should just buy
> >> cars from them and have a lotto to give them away or sell them at half
> >> price. This would keep the workers employed at least.
> >>
> >> I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
> >> no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
> >> down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
> >> considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money would
> >> be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of what
> >> they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
> >> housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
> >
> >They are actually much, much more than a trillion underwater. The bailout
> >is absolutely pointless because there's no amount of funny money you can
> >print to even make them solvent. That's what happens when you build an
> >unregulated house of cards on credit and leverage.
> >
> >We're witnessing the smash-and-grab before it all comes crashing down.
> >
>
> You don't think that it already has come crashing down?
We're not there yet. Not even close.
> Are you predicting a "Greater Depression"?
Worse. I'm predicting an all-out collapse and all that implies by the end
of 2011.
> Now, I'm not arguing (yet), but just wondering what information you have.
The actual financial shape of our banking giants is what worries me; it's
why the Fed refuses to say how much money it's loaned to individual banks.
They'd have to admit how far gone the banks are, and how pointless it is
to give/loan them anything at all:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12053
Check out the credit exposure to capital ratio figures, and the
derivatives liabilities (figures in $millions). These banks are so far
gone the Fed could hand them $50 trillion and it wouldn't make a lick of
difference.
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Date: 28 Jan 2009 05:32:40
From: Abbey Johnsson
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Jan 28 2009 2:06 AM, ChrisRobin wrote:
>
> Worse. I'm predicting an all-out collapse and all that implies by the end
> of 2011.
>
"You're scaring me, Larry".
this is a serious question: what is the reality scene like in an all
out collapse? rioting in the streets? food shortages? gas shortages?
travel problems? 2-3 families moving in together?
----
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Date: 28 Jan 2009 11:53:18
From: ChrisRobin
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Jan 28 2009 8:32 AM, Abbey Johnsson wrote:
> On Jan 28 2009 2:06 AM, ChrisRobin wrote:
>
> >
> > Worse. I'm predicting an all-out collapse and all that implies by the end
> > of 2011.
> >
>
> "You're scaring me, Larry".
>
> this is a serious question: what is the reality scene like in an all
> out collapse? rioting in the streets? food shortages? gas shortages?
> travel problems? 2-3 families moving in together?
Yes, I think all of those things will become a reality within the next
couple years. I think we'll see a stock market crash and the complete
insolvency of federal and state governments (once the bond market goes
south, gov't is toast). What the consequences of that will be, it's hard
to say. Does our currency collapse? Does the United States break up, as
did the Soviet Union? Who knows. I know that sounds extreme, but the whole
system is beyond broke and the knuckleheads in government don't have the
slightest clue how to fix it. TARP and Obama's stimulus package are only
going to make things worse, I'm afraid. It's only a matter of time.
____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 10:18:47
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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> I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
> no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
> down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
> considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money would
> be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of what
> they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
> housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
Arlo,
You forgot about the leverage. In order to lend $1T, the banks only have
$100B on hand. The leverage of that is what is killing them. You bring in
a deposit for $1 and then loan out $10. When loans go bad it is quite easy
to lose the original $1 of deposit.
Dean
"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009
--------
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 10:30:42
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On Jan 27 2009 12:18 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
> > I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there is
> > no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but only
> > down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
> > considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money would
> > be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of what
> > they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
> > housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
>
> Arlo,
>
> You forgot about the leverage. In order to lend $1T, the banks only have
> $100B on hand. The leverage of that is what is killing them. You bring in
> a deposit for $1 and then loan out $10. When loans go bad it is quite easy
> to lose the original $1 of deposit.
>
> Dean
>
> "When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
> 1/16/2009
Banks aren't leveraged in the way you describe. Fractional reserve
banking says that when you take in $1 of deposits you can lend out $0.90,
not $10.
Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 14:44:37
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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"Wayne Vinson" <a7a88fc@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:if0456xgpc.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Jan 27 2009 12:18 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
>> > I also know the banks took on bad paper with the housing mess but there
>> > is
>> > no way in hell they are a trillion under water. Houses are down but
>> > only
>> > down 15% and in fact they have not had to take back enough houses
>> > considering the 15% fall that would add up to a trillion. The money
>> > would
>> > be better used to give it directly to the home owners in amounts of
>> > what
>> > they need to get above water. This would correct the problem for the
>> > housing mess and not allow the banks to piss away the money.
>>
>> Arlo,
>>
>> You forgot about the leverage. In order to lend $1T, the banks only have
>> $100B on hand. The leverage of that is what is killing them. You bring in
>> a deposit for $1 and then loan out $10. When loans go bad it is quite
>> easy
>> to lose the original $1 of deposit.
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> "When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
>> 1/16/2009
>
> Banks aren't leveraged in the way you describe. Fractional reserve
> banking says that when you take in $1 of deposits you can lend out $0.90,
> not $10.
>
> Wayne Vinson
Think about it Wayne. Where does that $0.90 go? Back into a bank to be
used as assets for another loan, and on and on. Works out close to about
$10 for every $1.
Robert Ladd
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 14:14:42
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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> Think about it Wayne. Where does that $0.90 go? Back into a bank to be
> used as assets for another loan, and on and on. Works out close to about
> $10 for every $1.
>
> Robert Ladd
Bzzt..... WRONG!
That 0.90 is lent out to whomever the bank writes loans (typically
homeowners, businesses, etc.)
Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: 28 Jan 2009 02:50:56
From: Beldin the Sorcerer
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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"Wayne Vinson" <a7a88fc@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:ijd456xh8f.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> Think about it Wayne. Where does that $0.90 go? Back into a bank to be
>> used as assets for another loan, and on and on. Works out close to about
>> $10 for every $1.
>>
>> Robert Ladd
>
> Bzzt..... WRONG!
>
> That 0.90 is lent out to whomever the bank writes loans (typically
> homeowners, businesses, etc.)
Wayne, you've demonstrated mental retardation repeatedly.
This is just another example.
The money is lent. Spent. And deposited in (key word above) A bank.
Not always the first bank, but some bank.
People, particularly business people, don't stuff cash (particularly
borrowed cash) in their sock drawer.
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 15:56:55
From: Robert Ladd
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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"Wayne Vinson" <a7a88fc@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:ijd456xh8f.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> Think about it Wayne. Where does that $0.90 go? Back into a bank to be
>> used as assets for another loan, and on and on. Works out close to about
>> $10 for every $1.
>>
>> Robert Ladd
>
> Bzzt..... WRONG!
>
> That 0.90 is lent out to whomever the bank writes loans (typically
> homeowners, businesses, etc.)
Yes, and the homeowners, businesses, etc. deposit that money into their
banks. Those banks show the deposits on their books as "assets", which is
then loaned out based on $0.90 of the deposited dollars. At 90% reserves,
it is somewhere near 9-10:1. This isn't some debatable point. This is a
fact of fractional reserve banking.
Look it up if you think I'm lying to you.
Robert Ladd
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Date: 27 Jan 2009 14:50:05
From: Bill T
Subject: Re: Layoffs and other crap
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On 1/27/2009 14:14, Wayne Vinson wrote:
>> Think about it Wayne. Where does that $0.90 go? Back into a bank to be
>> used as assets for another loan, and on and on. Works out close to about
>> $10 for every $1.
>>
>> Robert Ladd
>
> Bzzt..... WRONG!
>
> That 0.90 is lent out to whomever the bank writes loans (typically
> homeowners, businesses, etc.)
>
Yeah, but the original depositor still has dips on his $1. So now there
is $1.90 floating around. Rinse and repeat.
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