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Date: 13 Feb 2009 03:27:06
From: Travel A
Subject: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/

The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
"only".

This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
"stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
right.








 
Date: 16 Feb 2009 19:30:05
From: funky cold medina
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 16, 2:40=A0pm, "Abbey Johnsson" <ac68...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

> and the summit on I-15 east of Baker ca (elev 900) is about a 3,500
> foot climb to the top of that next hill.
> =A0 =A0the east coast of the US is flat compared to the western areas.
>

All this talk about pork vs lean cuisine wears me out. I just know
I'll miss this:

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/eWdV_-Itnw4jAKqZkkc4og?select=3D_BXCNRHwHUT5=
mWLV9C8l-Q

But you can bet my tired ass will be parked on the train. Bowing in
gratitude to the lords of bacon.


 
Date: 15 Feb 2009 12:29:35
From:
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 15, 9:56=A0am, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob...@fool.foo > wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:48:50 -0800, "Jerry Sturdivant"
>
> <jerr...@cox.net> wrote:
> >"James L. Hankins"
> >>> Just to be clear about being clear. The $45 million I was referring t=
o
> >>> was
> >>> for environmental impact. My son is a local engineer and a part of it=
.
> >>> (And, yes, it would probably grow to a bigger number).
> >> Jeebus H. Christ. =A0$45 million + for an environmental impact
> >> study to build a train in the desert. =A0No offense intended
> >> to your son, but that sort of bullshit is why government
> >> clogs the works for business.
> >No, that=92s why we have clean air, water forests and fewer oil spills.
>
> What a waste of money. =A0We should just recklessly build shit without
> any idea what the impact will be, and save money by spending billions
> to clean up the resulting catastrophes.

Yeah, those environmentalists will show us the way to a better life.
Never wrong or over-the-top are they?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/11/weve-lost-two-people-in-my-family-bec=
ause-you-dickheads-wont-cut-trees-down/

http://www.smh.com.au/national/fined-for-illegal-clearing-family-now-feel-v=
indicated-20090212-85bd.html

The Goreacle and friends want us to spend trillions to combat global
warming, oops.... climate change (since it hasn't been warming since
1998) for absolutely no reason at all. Technology and market forces be
damned.

CO2 is not a pollutant. The plants love it.

Warmest regards,
Busted


 
Date: 14 Feb 2009 19:25:13
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
I'd bet my life this train doesn't happen in my life time. This train
is needed like Antartica needs ice. Not only will this train destroy
much of the business along the driving route to Vegas, it would also
hurt the airlines. No even mentioning the damage it would do to the
Indian Casinos. Create jobs? This would destroy far more jobs than
create. This is a folly.






On Feb 14, 6:18=EF=BF=BDpm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob...@fool.foo > wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:59:05 -0800, "Abbey Johnsson"
>
> <ac68...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> >http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/03/la-to-vegas-other-high-speed-rail.html
> >"The cost is tentatively put at $12 billion, and Congress is planning to
> >provide $45 million to study the proposal further."
>
> It is difficult to imagine a spot for a high speed train that makes
> more sense. =EF=BF=BDYou can practically blast from LA to LV at 120 mph
> anyway, never stopping. =EF=BF=BDIt's practically flat.
>
> We're going to have to have high speed rail transit across the country
> anyway at some point. =EF=BF=BDAnd this, whatever it would cost, would be
> absolutely certain to generate income, if for nobody else, for anyone
> who plays cards in Vegas. =EF=BF=BDThink of all the Asians and other mook=
s in
> Los Angeles able to get to Vegas in a couple hours. =EF=BF=BD
>
> You don't think this would vastly and immediately improve the games in
> Vegas? =EF=BF=BDFuck, I might show up for that shit.



  
Date: 15 Feb 2009 06:28:35
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

<RussGeorgiev@aol.com > wrote

> I'd bet my life this train doesn't happen in my life time.

How old are you? I might take the over.


> This train is needed like Antartica needs ice.

Actually it is needed. (Not the ice thing, the Artic needs the ice). Las
Vegas is the fastest growing area in the nation. It's the entertainment
capital of the world. Over 40 million visitors a year drop in, drop money on
the tables and leave. No smokestacks, just dealers maids and cooks. Our
present airport can expand no more and they're looking at moving to a dry
lake about 50 miles south and putting in a rail.


> Not only will this train destroy much of the business
> along the driving route to Vegas,

What businesses? That Macdonald's in Barstow and the gas station in Baker?
Have you ever made the drive? Do it with Google Earth. And pretend it 115
degrees in your car when you fly the Baker Grade.


> it would also hurt the airlines.

It would actually help them and our airport.


> No even mentioning the damage it
> would do to the Indian Casinos.

Only if they built them on the tracks. Changing your transportation methods
to Vegas would have no impact on Indian (ugh) casinos.


> Create jobs? This would destroy far more
> jobs than create. This is a folly.

Now THAT is an explanation I'd like to see.


Jerry 'n Vegas








   
Date: 15 Feb 2009 09:16:35
From: Abbey Johnsson
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 15 2009 9:28 AM, Jerry Sturdivant wrote:

Las
> Vegas is the fastest growing area in the nation.

still is? it might become the fastest shrinking area in the country.
no offense, but vegas is a gross place to live. (i've lived there).
miles and miles of boring stucco cookie cutter neighborhoods divided up by
miles and miles of strip malls and extremely congested city streets. and
the weather and scenery sucks too. winters are cold and windy and
summers.....welll...hell on earth. its a good place to sit inside your air
conditioned box and wait to die while watching tv.

the la to vegas run would be a good place to experiment with a high
speed rail, specially since its mostly desert still. a hundred yrs from
now, it might be all built up. but, i would think there are more important
corridors for such a train. like la to san francisco, or the eastern
seaboard- boston,ny,dc.

-------- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



    
Date: 15 Feb 2009 11:45:45
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Abbey Johnsson"


>> Las Vegas is the fastest growing area in the nation.

> still is?

I don't know now.


> it might become the fastest shrinking area in the country.

It was for a while. This town is famous for it's boom and bust. When
constructions stops, about a zillion construction workers leave and
everything's for rent. Presently there's a project on the strip with
22-cranes that were running. I only see a few moving now.


> no offense, but vegas is a gross place to live.

No offense taken. I lived in the northwest (Portland Or) and saw the sun one
day. Yuk! It rains all the time there. I'll take the Vegas heat.


> (i've lived there). miles and miles of boring stucco cookie
> cutter neighborhoods divided up by miles and miles of strip
> malls and extremely congested city streets.

That might be the old Vegas (I worked at the Golden Nugget as a poker player
in the mid '60s). With the modern building requirements (open space, trails,
bike paths) and living in Summerlin, it's just great. Come on back and check
it out.


> and the weather and scenery sucks too.

Yike! I golf all year around and just got rid of my sail boat (Lake Mead).
And there's snow skiing less than an hour away. Where do you live that's
better?


> winters are cold and windy and summers.....welll...hell on earth.

You're in Florida, right? You can have the humidity (open a can of beer and
a puddle starts forming around it) and them little No-See-Em Bugs that stick
in your nose and ears.


> its a good place to sit inside your air conditioned
> box and wait to die while watching tv.

I'm no wimp. Two years ago we set a record of 117 degrees. I was on the 17th
fairway when it was announced. Hell, it's a dry heat. The 117 felt no hotter
than 110 does.


> the la to vegas run would be a good place to experiment
> with a high speed rail, specially since its mostly desert
> still. a hundred yrs from now, it might be all built up.
> but, i would think there are more important corridors for
> such a train.

I don't remember some of the other selections, but this one has a higher
priority because of what you said: Desert and not much else.


Jerry (watching TV) 'n Vegas







     
Date: 16 Feb 2009 19:14:26
From: Abbey Johnsson
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 15 2009 2:45 PM, Jerry Sturdivant wrote:

Where do you live that's
> better?


i dont live there but i know where its better. Hawaii! its 82 everyday
and "the air is so dewy sweet, you dont even have to lick the stamps".
thats the place to play golf. might be expensive tho, i dont know.
sometimes i wonder what Puerto Rico is like. sounds warm and
inexpensive. or Vera Cruz, Mexico.

____________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




      
Date: 17 Feb 2009 06:24:34
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Abbey Johnsson"

>> Where do you live that's better?

> i dont live there but i know where its better. Hawaii! its
> 82 everyday and "the air is so dewy sweet, you dont even
> have to lick the stamps".

I hate the puddles that form when you place a cold beer on the table in high
humidity climates. You never see a drop on a Vegas bottle of beer.


Jerry (licking his dry lips) 'n Vegas









   
Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:18:06
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net > wrote in message
news:qEVll.7514$7r7.2629@newsfe25.iad...
>
> <RussGeorgiev@aol.com> wrote
>
>> I'd bet my life this train doesn't happen in my life time.
>
> How old are you? I might take the over.
>
>
>> This train is needed like Antartica needs ice.
>
> Actually it is needed. (Not the ice thing, the Artic needs the ice). Las
> Vegas is the fastest growing area in the nation. It's the entertainment
> capital of the world. Over 40 million visitors a year drop in, drop money
> on
> the tables and leave. No smokestacks, just dealers maids and cooks. Our
> present airport can expand no more and they're looking at moving to a dry
> lake about 50 miles south and putting in a rail.


You have a *really* loose definition of the word "needed." It might help
Vegas make even more money than it already does, but I doubt a goddamned
bullet train connected to L.A. is something that is required in order for
the city to survive.

The larger point is, of course, how the hell can you justify *federal*
dollars on such a boondoggle? If it was "needed" and it was economically
viable and a good investment that would produce a good return, then dontcha
think it would have already been done? It's probably an expensive project
that is going to lose money which is why Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and the
like haven't doen it already, but I'm sure they would welcome a handout from
the feds.

It's pork. Pure and simple. The living embodiment of the definition of
pork. I'd love to have a supermassive federal project in my city that
helped only my city and did nothing for the rest of the country, too. But
that kind of spending is a prime example of Congress fritters away our
money.




    
Date: 15 Feb 2009 12:42:23
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:18:06 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>The larger point is, of course, how the hell can you justify *federal*
>dollars on such a boondoggle?

It clearly involves interstate commerce.

>If it was "needed" and it was economically
>viable and a good investment that would produce a good return, then dontcha
>think it would have already been done?

That's idiotic. You could have said the same thing for virtually any
interstate highway before it was built. "We don't need them
new-fangled highway things or we'd already have 'em."

>It's probably an expensive project
>that is going to lose money which is why Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and the
>like haven't doen it already, but I'm sure they would welcome a handout from
>the feds.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but private parties don't get to
build interstate transportation infrastructure.

>It's pork. Pure and simple. The living embodiment of the definition of
>pork. I'd love to have a supermassive federal project in my city that
>helped only my city and did nothing for the rest of the country, too. But
>that kind of spending is a prime example of Congress fritters away our
>money.

If this is pork, then so is every interstate highway. If thinking
like yours had prevailed, we would still be without an interstate
highway system, since by your weird definition, every foot of it is
pork.


     
Date: 16 Feb 2009 13:08:14
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:krkgp4tchpelmd6kuckcvq45j581nv807b@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:18:06 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
> <jhankins5@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>The larger point is, of course, how the hell can you justify *federal*
>>dollars on such a boondoggle?
>
> It clearly involves interstate commerce.


It does in a legal analysis of interstate commerce questions that you might
pick up form a Supreme Court case, but not within the context of pork barrel
spending of federal dollars.

Simply because a rail line runs between two states doesn't mean it's not
pork.



>>If it was "needed" and it was economically
>>viable and a good investment that would produce a good return, then
>>dontcha
>>think it would have already been done?
>
> That's idiotic. You could have said the same thing for virtually any
> interstate highway before it was built. "We don't need them
> new-fangled highway things or we'd already have 'em."



It's not the same and I think you're just being deliberately obtuse here.
The interstate highway system did start with building one highway, but it
was with the idea that the one highway would connect to the others that were
planned to be built.

This bullet train is a one-shot deal, not part of a national plan of bullet
rail nationwide.



>>It's probably an expensive project
>>that is going to lose money which is why Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and
>>the
>>like haven't doen it already, but I'm sure they would welcome a handout
>>from
>>the feds.
>
> I don't know if you're aware of this, but private parties don't get to
> build interstate transportation infrastructure.



They typically don't because it's expensvie. But are you saying that if
they could afford to do it that there is some law that would prohibit it?
Please share.



>>It's pork. Pure and simple. The living embodiment of the definition of
>>pork. I'd love to have a supermassive federal project in my city that
>>helped only my city and did nothing for the rest of the country, too. But
>>that kind of spending is a prime example of Congress fritters away our
>>money.
>
> If this is pork, then so is every interstate highway. If thinking
> like yours had prevailed, we would still be without an interstate
> highway system, since by your weird definition, every foot of it is
> pork.


The bullet train under discussion is a discrete rail line from one city to
another, not the initial prong of a planned nationwide rail system.

Don't give me a 6th grade lecture on interstate highways. I am aware of
their history and why they are important. You and Studivant keep trying to
analogize this bullet train to the interstate highway system and they are
not analogous at all.

I wouldn't really be opposed (paradoxically enough) to the idea of a
national bullet train system, but that would be something that would
integrate national commerce, postal/parcel delivery, and commuter travel on
a nationwide scale. What is under discussion in these threads is a singular
rail line, the sole purpose of which is to plant asses in front of slot
machines in Las Vegas casinos.




      
Date: 16 Feb 2009 16:40:09
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:08:14 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>The bullet train under discussion is a discrete rail line from one city to
>another, not the initial prong of a planned nationwide rail system.

So where the hell do you think the other legs of any such system are
going to be? Plenty of them will have to involve Los Angeles. Others
will have to involve New York. Has to start somewhere.


    
Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:52:25
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:18:06 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>
>"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:qEVll.7514$7r7.2629@newsfe25.iad...
>>
>> <RussGeorgiev@aol.com> wrote
>>
>>> I'd bet my life this train doesn't happen in my life time.
>>
>> How old are you? I might take the over.
>>
>>
>>> This train is needed like Antartica needs ice.
>>
>> Actually it is needed. (Not the ice thing, the Artic needs the ice). Las
>> Vegas is the fastest growing area in the nation. It's the entertainment
>> capital of the world. Over 40 million visitors a year drop in, drop money
>> on
>> the tables and leave. No smokestacks, just dealers maids and cooks. Our
>> present airport can expand no more and they're looking at moving to a dry
>> lake about 50 miles south and putting in a rail.
>
>
>You have a *really* loose definition of the word "needed." It might help
>Vegas make even more money than it already does, but I doubt a goddamned
>bullet train connected to L.A. is something that is required in order for
>the city to survive.
>
>The larger point is, of course, how the hell can you justify *federal*
>dollars on such a boondoggle? If it was "needed" and it was economically
>viable and a good investment that would produce a good return, then dontcha
>think it would have already been done? It's probably an expensive project
>that is going to lose money which is why Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and the
>like haven't doen it already, but I'm sure they would welcome a handout from
>the feds.
>
>It's pork. Pure and simple. The living embodiment of the definition of
>pork. I'd love to have a supermassive federal project in my city that
>helped only my city and did nothing for the rest of the country, too. But
>that kind of spending is a prime example of Congress fritters away our
>money.
>
I'm still trying to understand why it would be a good thing for
California.

Most tourists to Nevada put their money together and go to LV and
spend/gamble it.

Wouldn't Californians do the same thing?

It sounds to me like a one-way street for money.


     
Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:59:12
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com > wrote in message
news:87hgp4tnv2dse0rgg1n5n9u41uug83di0o@4ax.com...


> It sounds to me like a one-way street for money.


Yes. That's what I'm saying. That's why it's pork.




      
Date: 15 Feb 2009 11:26:28
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"James L. Hankins"

>>> Wouldn't Californians do the same thing?

>> It sounds to me like a one-way street for money.

> Yes. That's what I'm saying. That's why it's pork.

But you said it was for the benefit of Las Vegas, not California. Which end
do you think benefits?


Jerry (at either end) ‘n Vegas








       
Date: 16 Feb 2009 12:58:37
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net > wrote in message
news:G%Zll.3532$i42.2521@newsfe17.iad...
>
> "James L. Hankins"
>
>>>> Wouldn't Californians do the same thing?
>
>>> It sounds to me like a one-way street for money.
>
>> Yes. That's what I'm saying. That's why it's pork.
>
> But you said it was for the benefit of Las Vegas, not California. Which
> end
> do you think benefits?



Uh, Las Vegas (just in case I wasn't clear on that). How would you envision
LA benefitting as opposed to Vegas?




    
Date: 15 Feb 2009 08:46:13
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"James L. Hankins"

> You have a *really* loose definition of the word "needed."
> It might help Vegas make even more money than it already
> does, but I doubt a goddamned bullet train connected to
> L.A. is something that is required in order for the city to survive.

Oh, true enough. Although this downturn is hurting; those with money and
conventions are still coming. But lots of major building projects have
halted.


> The larger point is, of course, how the hell can
> you justify *federal* dollars on such a boondoggle?

I believe the justification is spending to get people working; the economy
moving and save energy and the environment at the same time. “Shovel Ready,”
as the saying goes. I can assure you I have no motive as I’m retired; live
in Vegas (Summerlin) and go to a local casino.


> If it was "needed" and it was economically viable and a
> good investment that would produce a good return, then
> dontcha think it would have already been done?

It’s being done. They have plans; they’re expanding the airport and looking
at build a new airport about 10-miles south because there’s no more room in
town; have built a monorail-type transportation system within the city and
are presently widening the highway toward LA.


> It's probably an expensive project

Yep. What project isn’t?


> that is going to lose money …

Do highways make money? Does purchasing oil from abroad make money? Do
airports make money? They figure a ticket on this will be over $100 from LA.


> which is why Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and
> the like haven't doen it already,

Why would they want to build a bullet train they couldn’t afford?


> but I'm sure they would welcome a handout from the feds.

Actually they’re profit making companies and were doing quite will until
this downturn. Now Obama’s telling people not to go to Vegas for
conventions.


> It's pork. Pure and simple.

Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin’s local
building to build a local museum full of old stuff you’ll purchase from
other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
federal money.

This will do what Obama promised: Hire construction workers; save buying oil
from Arabia.


> The living embodiment of the definition of pork.

-----------

pork barrel (pôrk bàr¹el) noun
Slang.
A government project or appropriation that yields jobs or other benefits to
a specific locale and patronage opportunities to its political
representative.

---------

Pork barrel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Pork barrel spending)

--------


> I'd love to have a supermassive federal project in my city
> that helped only my city and did nothing for the rest of
> the country, too.

THAT would be pork.


Jerry ‘n Vegas









     
Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:58:15
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net > wrote in message
news:rFXll.2013$r54.1807@newsfe15.iad...


> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin’s local
> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you’ll purchase from
> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
> federal money.


Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city to "Y" city anywhere
in the U.S. is a good idea.





> pork barrel (pôrk bàr¹el) noun
> Slang.
> A government project or appropriation that yields jobs or other benefits
> to
> a specific locale and patronage opportunities to its political
> representative.


I.E., a bullet train.




      
Date: 15 Feb 2009 11:28:45
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"James L. Hankins"


>> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin’s local
>> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you’ll purchase from
>> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
>> federal money.

> Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city
> to "Y" city anywhere in the U.S. is a good idea.

Much better than running from nowhere to nowhere. Or in a circle. What
destinations do you believe would be a good idea?



Jerry ‘n Vegas









       
Date: 16 Feb 2009 12:57:04
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net > wrote in message
news:P1_ll.3533$i42.2996@newsfe17.iad...


> Much better than running from nowhere to nowhere. Or in a circle. What
> destinations do you believe would be a good idea?



What difference does that make? The point is whether such projects,
wherever they are, are sufficiently tied to national interests to warrant
the expenditure of federal dollars.




      
Date: 15 Feb 2009 12:55:06
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:58:15 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:rFXll.2013$r54.1807@newsfe15.iad...

>> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin’s local
>> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you’ll purchase from
>> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
>> federal money.

>Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city to "Y" city anywhere
>in the U.S. is a good idea.

Certainly any two cities with such extensive commerce between each
other. Not just any two random cities with no demonstrated traffic.


       
Date: 16 Feb 2009 12:55:36
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:9mlgp4h58n2imu0s9ac6va1u0jhpc5vo5o@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:58:15 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
> <jhankins5@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:rFXll.2013$r54.1807@newsfe15.iad...
>
>>> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin's local
>>> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you'll purchase from
>>> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
>>> federal money.
>
>>Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city to "Y" city anywhere
>>in the U.S. is a good idea.
>
> Certainly any two cities with such extensive commerce between each
> other. Not just any two random cities with no demonstrated traffic.



But for a massive expenditure of federal dollars, should there not be some
national interest in the project?

I-35 has been under construction almost all of my life through Oklahoma
City. But, a guy in Brownsville can drive through it up to Canada.

This bullet train business implicates zero national interests, benefits one
city for all practical purposes, and is just plain pork. You and Sturdivant
can try to dress it up all you want but it's a losing effort.




        
Date: 17 Feb 2009 05:07:21
From: Irish Mike
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net > wrote in message
news:CEiml.8161$7r7.5600@newsfe25.iad...
>
> "A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo> wrote in message
> news:9mlgp4h58n2imu0s9ac6va1u0jhpc5vo5o@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:58:15 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
>> <jhankins5@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:rFXll.2013$r54.1807@newsfe15.iad...
>>
>>>> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin's local
>>>> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you'll purchase from
>>>> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
>>>> federal money.
>>
>>>Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city to "Y" city
>>>anywhere
>>>in the U.S. is a good idea.
>>
>> Certainly any two cities with such extensive commerce between each
>> other. Not just any two random cities with no demonstrated traffic.
>
>
>
> But for a massive expenditure of federal dollars, should there not be some
> national interest in the project?
>
> I-35 has been under construction almost all of my life through Oklahoma
> City. But, a guy in Brownsville can drive through it up to Canada.
>
> This bullet train business implicates zero national interests, benefits
> one city for all practical purposes, and is just plain pork. You and
> Sturdivant can try to dress it up all you want but it's a losing effort.

It benefits Harry Reid and that's why he stuck it in the bill. The beauty
part is the Democrats crowing about what a great bill it is. They jammed
through the biggest stimulus-spending bill in the history of this country
and not one single Democrat congressional representative or senator had read
the final bill when they signed it. Now that bucko, is change you can
believe in!

Irish Mike




       
Date: 15 Feb 2009 15:55:14
From: mccard
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:9mlgp4h58n2imu0s9ac6va1u0jhpc5vo5o@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:58:15 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
> <jhankins5@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:rFXll.2013$r54.1807@newsfe15.iad...
>
>>> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin's local
>>> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you'll purchase from
>>> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
>>> federal money.
>
>>Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city to "Y" city anywhere
>>in the U.S. is a good idea.
>
> Certainly any two cities with such extensive commerce between each
> other. Not just any two random cities with no demonstrated traffic.

If a high speed rail system had automated "high value" freight capability
(like overnight mail) in addition to passenger, connected all major "metro"
areas in North America and was integrated with airport and existing rail and
light rail systems it would be a major economic driver. And no, no
individual business could ever fund something like this, just like no
individual business funds the major airports or interstate highway systems.



        
Date: 15 Feb 2009 20:22:03
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:55:14 -0600, "mccard" <no_won@no_won.none >
wrote:

>
>"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo> wrote in message
>news:9mlgp4h58n2imu0s9ac6va1u0jhpc5vo5o@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:58:15 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
>> <jhankins5@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:rFXll.2013$r54.1807@newsfe15.iad...
>>
>>>> Nope. Pork is getting federal money for purchasing your cousin's local
>>>> building to build a local museum full of old stuff you'll purchase from
>>>> other local relatives. And, perhaps, hire one local janitor with that
>>>> federal money.
>>
>>>Then you must think that a bullet train from "X" city to "Y" city anywhere
>>>in the U.S. is a good idea.
>>
>> Certainly any two cities with such extensive commerce between each
>> other. Not just any two random cities with no demonstrated traffic.
>
>If a high speed rail system had automated "high value" freight capability
>(like overnight mail) in addition to passenger, connected all major "metro"
>areas in North America and was integrated with airport and existing rail and
>light rail systems it would be a major economic driver. And no, no
>individual business could ever fund something like this, just like no
>individual business funds the major airports or interstate highway systems.

Incidentally, many of the major high speed rail systems in Europe are
partially subsidized by postal traffic.


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 23:46:21
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:25:13 -0800 (PST), "RussGeorgiev@aol.com"
<RussGeorgiev@aol.com > wrote:

>I'd bet my life this train doesn't happen in my life time. This train
>is needed like Antartica needs ice. Not only will this train destroy
>much of the business along the driving route to Vegas, it would also
>hurt the airlines. No even mentioning the damage it would do to the
>Indian Casinos. Create jobs? This would destroy far more jobs than
>create. This is a folly.

Thank you for agreeing with me that it's a great idea, and joining
other insane retards in my epic Kill-Castle. You will love the
accommodations therein.


 
Date: 14 Feb 2009 11:02:01
From:
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 14, 8:56=EF=BF=BDam, "Jerry Sturdivant" <jerr...@cox.net > wrote:
> "FL Turbo" <noem...@notime.com> wrote
>
> > I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.
>
> They figure it would cost $45 million.
>
> "The FRA (Federal Railroad Association) is preparing an Environmental Imp=
act
> Statement (EIS) for the proposed DesertXpress high-speed train project in
> cooperation with the Surface Transportation Board, the Federal Highway
> Administration, the Bureau of Land Management, the California Department =
of
> Transportation, and the Nevada Department of Transportation."http://www.f=
ra.dot.gov/us/content/1703
>
> Jerry 'n Vegas

Although I would use and enjoy the train, I doubt that the
environmental extremists would give a green light to its construction.
Too bad the environmental elitists in this state will fly their
private planes to Sacramento and Las Vegas, but won't support the
building of a train through the desert.

May you NEVER "seven-out," ...*guy...


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 13:14:10
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

<Bart9349@AOL.com > wrote


>> Transportation, and the Nevada Department of
>> Transportation."http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1703

> Although I would use and enjoy the train, I doubt that the
> environmental extremists would give a green light to its
> construction.

I'm an environmentalist and I would. Every train car means 50 less autos
zipping through the desert running over rabbits and tortoises.


> Too bad the environmental elitists in this state will fly
> their private planes to Sacramento and Las Vegas, but won't
> support the building of a train through the desert.

Far from being an elitist, I've done all three. A maglev would relive
airport congestion, the skys, the highways and the desert. And I would hope
the power would be from nukes.


Jerry 'n Vegas







 
Date: 14 Feb 2009 09:02:38
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 14, 6:35=A0am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:
>
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> > The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> > years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> > the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> > always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> > "only".
>
> > This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> > profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> > "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> > expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> > right.
>
> Wouldnt that be fun !! =A0250 MPH thru the worst earthquake area on earth

I thought the worst earthquake area was in Japan... where they already
have bullet trains.
>
> WHAT COULD GO WRONG ?

I would rather be on a modern bullet train than standing next to an
old brick building.

- Bob T.
>
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities=
.
> Voltaire
>
> --------=A0
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 11:16:56
From: mccard
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com > wrote in message
news:f25e3040-2a7b-414f-a97a-822def8cc3bb@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 14, 6:35 am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:
>
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> > The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> > years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> > the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> > always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> > "only".
>
> > This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> > profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> > "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> > expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> > right.
>

After traveling on the ICE trains in Europe, I began to wonder if the US is
really as technologically advanced as we like to think. Driving a car
across the great plains between metros (i.e. KC to Denver, etc.) is for
lunatics compared to riding in an ICE.



   
Date: 14 Feb 2009 12:01:39
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:16:56 -0600, "mccard" <no_won@no_won.none >
wrote:

>
>"Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote in message
>news:f25e3040-2a7b-414f-a97a-822def8cc3bb@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 14, 6:35 am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>> On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>>
>> > The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
>> > years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
>> > the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
>> > always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
>> > "only".
>>
>> > This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
>> > profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
>> > "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
>> > expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
>> > right.
>>

What about the people in California?
Will they be happy about making it easier for their citizens to go and
spend their money in Nevada?

>
>After traveling on the ICE trains in Europe, I began to wonder if the US is
>really as technologically advanced as we like to think. Driving a car
>across the great plains between metros (i.e. KC to Denver, etc.) is for
>lunatics compared to riding in an ICE.

All of those tiny little European countries would fit very nicely
within half of the USA or Canada.

If you want to limit your travel to only those points served by the
rail line, it's a hell of a deal.

Most Americans wouldn't care to spend millions just so people can
travel easily between Vegas and LA.

But I guess we will indeed be having to do that, won't we?


    
Date: 14 Feb 2009 18:22:33
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
FL Turbo wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:16:56 -0600, "mccard" <no_won@no_won.none>
> wrote:

> What about the people in California?
> Will they be happy about making it easier for their citizens to go and
> spend their money in Nevada?

California is pushing this project right along with Nevada.


--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
jlong@chiprider.com


    
Date: 14 Feb 2009 14:48:44
From: Steam
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 14 2009 10:01 AM, FL Turbo wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:16:56 -0600, "mccard" <no_won@no_won.none>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote in message
> >news:f25e3040-2a7b-414f-a97a-822def8cc3bb@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> >On Feb 14, 6:35 am, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:
> >>
> >> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
> >>
> >> > The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> >> > years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> >> > the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> >> > always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> >> > "only".
> >>
> >> > This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> >> > profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> >> > "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> >> > expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> >> > right.
> >>
>
> What about the people in California?
> Will they be happy about making it easier for their citizens to go and
> spend their money in Nevada?
>
> >
> >After traveling on the ICE trains in Europe, I began to wonder if the US is
> >really as technologically advanced as we like to think. Driving a car
> >across the great plains between metros (i.e. KC to Denver, etc.) is for
> >lunatics compared to riding in an ICE.
>
> All of those tiny little European countries would fit very nicely
> within half of the USA or Canada.
>
> If you want to limit your travel to only those points served by the
> rail line, it's a hell of a deal.
>
> Most Americans wouldn't care to spend millions just so people can
> travel easily between Vegas and LA.
>
> But I guess we will indeed be having to do that, won't we?

As someone who has frequently traveled between LA and Vegas, as an
Angeleno I welcome the train, I've been hearing about this for like 20
years. Finally I get to be a beneficiary of some pork barrel spending!

I'm not saying they should be doing this, I'm just saying.

________________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 14 Feb 2009 06:35:37
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> "only".
>
> This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> right.

Wouldnt that be fun !! 250 MPH thru the worst earthquake area on earth

WHAT COULD GO WRONG ?


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

-------- 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 12:45:33
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Travel A" <nine510@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:8567-4995590A-3139@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com...
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> "only".
>
> This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> right.



I need to tell my senators to get off their asses and get me a bullet train
from Oklahoma City to Vegas. Yeah, baby!




  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 13:09:17
From: Joel Olson
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
"James L. Hankins" <jhankins5@cox.net > wrote in message
news:bdjll.1576$i42.1172@newsfe17.iad...
>
> "Travel A" <nine510@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:8567-4995590A-3139@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com...
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>>
>> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
>> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
>> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
>> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
>> "only".
>>
>> This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
>> profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
>> "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
>> expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
>> right.
>
>
>
> I need to tell my senators to get off their asses and get me a bullet
> train from Oklahoma City to Vegas. Yeah, baby!

I'd be happy if they'd just get out of the way.







 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 07:00:28
From: risky biz
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 13 2009 4:27 AM, Travel A wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> "only".
>
> This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> right.

Your credentials as a tax and spend liberal are reaffirmed, Travel.

--- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 10:25:53
From: Travel
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
They've been planning this for years and the casinos are supposed to
contribute as well as private investors, bonds etc. We'll see what
happens.

The project didn't start with the "Stimulus Package", Reid just used
the spending spree to get money for it at the last minute under the
cover of darkness. It's an earmark, but like Clinton, Obama wants to
know how everyone defines "earmark". Arrrnold's in on it too.

The fast train WILL be back!

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://www.pokermagazine.com
Visit www.pokermagazine.com


   
Date: 13 Feb 2009 08:42:45
From: funky cold medina
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 13, 8:25=A0am, Travel <nine...@webtv.net > wrote:

>
> The fast train WILL be back!
>
-
Alright Arnold, lets hope so.

The drive there on Friday night I enjoy -- it's the drive back on
Sunday when you're tired, beat, operating on 2 hours sleep and a
little hung-over that I dread.



 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 07:01:16
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> "only".
>
> This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> right.

i doubt that they are going to build a multi billion dollar system with
the Vegas economy as it is .

DAY IZ HURTIN !!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

----- 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 00:12:17
From: Joe Long
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
FangBanger wrote:
> On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:
>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>>
>> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
>> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
>> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
>> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
>> "only".

...

> i doubt that they are going to build a multi billion dollar system with
> the Vegas economy as it is .

It's just been funded, by earmark, in the stimulus package. No one
should be surprised, Reid was going to get some goodies in the package.

> DAY IZ HURTIN !!

Another reason that it got funded.

I'll probably use it the other direction. There's no way I'll ever live
in southern California, but I'll use the train to make side trips there
from Vegas.


--
Joe Long aka ChipRider
Somewhere on the Range


   
Date: 14 Feb 2009 10:08:04
From: FL Turbo
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:12:17 -0700, Joe Long <nospam@spam.com > wrote:

>FangBanger wrote:
>> On Feb 13 2009 5:27 AM, Travel A wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>>>
>>> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
>>> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
>>> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
>>> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
>>> "only".
>
>...
>
>> i doubt that they are going to build a multi billion dollar system with
>> the Vegas economy as it is .
>
>It's just been funded, by earmark, in the stimulus package. No one
>should be surprised, Reid was going to get some goodies in the package.
>
>> DAY IZ HURTIN !!
>
>Another reason that it got funded.
>
>I'll probably use it the other direction. There's no way I'll ever live
>in southern California, but I'll use the train to make side trips there
>from Vegas.

I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.

I can imagine a whole lot of court challenges along those lines when
they actually go to build it.


    
Date: 15 Feb 2009 15:57:44
From: bub
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
i think i read somewhere there was at least 5 years of government
studies (environmental crap) that need to be done before they can even
break ground

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:08:04 -0600, FL Turbo <noemail@notime.com >
wrote:


>
>I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.
>
>I can imagine a whole lot of court challenges along those lines when
>they actually go to build it.



    
Date: 14 Feb 2009 08:56:36
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com > wrote


> I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.

They figure it would cost $45 million.

"The FRA (Federal Railroad Association) is preparing an Environmental Impact
Statement (EIS) for the proposed DesertXpress high-speed train project in
cooperation with the Surface Transportation Board, the Federal Highway
Administration, the Bureau of Land Management, the California Department of
Transportation, and the Nevada Department of Transportation."
http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1703


Jerry 'n Vegas






     
Date: 14 Feb 2009 17:59:05
From: Abbey Johnsson
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 14 2009 11:56 AM, Jerry Sturdivant wrote:

> "FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com> wrote
>
>
> > I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.
>
> They figure it would cost $45 million.
>
> "The FRA (Federal Railroad Association) is preparing an Environmental Impact
> Statement (EIS) for the proposed DesertXpress high-speed train project in
> cooperation with the Surface Transportation Board, the Federal Highway
> Administration, the Bureau of Land Management, the California Department of
> Transportation, and the Nevada Department of Transportation."
> http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1703
>
>
> Jerry 'n Vegas

just to be clear, the $45 million is to study the project some more. the
actual construction is estimated at 12 billion. and as all govt projects
go, that 12b will turn into 30b.


http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/03/la-to-vegas-other-high-speed-rail.html

"The cost is tentatively put at $12 billion, and Congress is planning to
provide $45 million to study the proposal further."

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Date: 15 Feb 2009 06:12:09
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Abbey Johnsson"


>> Jerry 'n Vegas

> just to be clear, the $45 million is to study
> the project some more.

Just to be clear about being clear. The $45 million I was referring to was
for environmental impact. My son is a local engineer and a part of it. (And,
yes, it would probably grow to a bigger number).


> the actual construction is estimated at 12 billion. and as
> all govt projects go, that 12b will turn into 30b.

True, too. And what's sadder, the technology would be from foreign countries
that are better at high-speed trains than we are.


Jerry 'n Vegas








       
Date: 15 Feb 2009 10:10:57
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"Jerry Sturdivant" <jerryst@cox.net > wrote in message
news:0pVll.7511$7r7.4824@newsfe25.iad...
>
> "Abbey Johnsson"
>
>
>>> Jerry 'n Vegas
>
>> just to be clear, the $45 million is to study
>> the project some more.
>
> Just to be clear about being clear. The $45 million I was referring to was
> for environmental impact. My son is a local engineer and a part of it.
> (And,
> yes, it would probably grow to a bigger number).



Jeebus H. Christ. $45 million + for an environmental impact study to build
a train in the desert. No offense intended to your son, but that sort of
bullshit is why government clogs the works for business.

Do we have Al Gore to thank for such non-sense?




        
Date: 15 Feb 2009 08:48:50
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"James L. Hankins"


>> Just to be clear about being clear. The $45 million I was referring to
>> was
>> for environmental impact. My son is a local engineer and a part of it.
>> (And, yes, it would probably grow to a bigger number).

> Jeebus H. Christ. $45 million + for an environmental impact
> study to build a train in the desert. No offense intended
> to your son, but that sort of bullshit is why government
> clogs the works for business.

No, that’s why we have clean air, water forests and fewer oil spills.


> Do we have Al Gore to thank for such non-sense?

Among others.


Jerry ‘n Vegas







         
Date: 15 Feb 2009 12:56:34
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:48:50 -0800, "Jerry Sturdivant"
<jerryst@cox.net > wrote:

>"James L. Hankins"

>>> Just to be clear about being clear. The $45 million I was referring to
>>> was
>>> for environmental impact. My son is a local engineer and a part of it.
>>> (And, yes, it would probably grow to a bigger number).

>> Jeebus H. Christ. $45 million + for an environmental impact
>> study to build a train in the desert. No offense intended
>> to your son, but that sort of bullshit is why government
>> clogs the works for business.

>No, that’s why we have clean air, water forests and fewer oil spills.

What a waste of money. We should just recklessly build shit without
any idea what the impact will be, and save money by spending billions
to clean up the resulting catastrophes.


          
Date: 16 Feb 2009 13:13:11
From: James L. Hankins
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nobody@fool.foo > wrote in message
news:fplgp45ol827qctj7o58fvu4lado5un3ri@4ax.com...


> What a waste of money. We should just recklessly build shit without
> any idea what the impact will be, and save money by spending billions
> to clean up the resulting catastrophes.



A nuclear power plant? OK. A chemical plant what has to eliminate
hazardous waste? OK.

But a freakin bullet train crossing the desert. GMAFB.




           
Date: 16 Feb 2009 16:40:52
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:13:11 -0600, "James L. Hankins"
<jhankins5@cox.net > wrote:

>But a freakin bullet train crossing the desert. GMAFB.

There's hardly better terrain for a bullet train to cross than desert.
Where should they start? Mountains? Swamps?


           
Date: 16 Feb 2009 13:34:02
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"James L. Hankins"


> This bullet train business implicates zero national interests,

There is increasingly larger interest in mass transit, not only intercity,
but nationally. The rail lines in our country are deteriorating. Ask those
that spend more time in airports than in the air. A person arriving at the
airport in LA will arrive at the Las Vegas strip hotel about one hour before
the person driving from LA to the hotel’s valet.


> You and Sturdivant can try to dress it up
> all you want but it's a losing effort.

Convincing you? Sure. But you’re still under the impression a transportation
corridor only benefits one end.


>> Much better than running from nowhere to nowhere. Or in
>> a circle. What destinations do you believe would be a good idea?

> What difference does that make?

Getting to and from that destination. You’re STILL believing a
transportation only benefits one end. Even if it were true, so what? There
is no benefit without it. Who benefits when a plane flies from one airport
to another?



> The point is whether such projects, wherever they are, are
> sufficiently tied to national interests to warrant the expenditure
> of federal dollars.

I guess I could start you back to the national highway system; or our
aviation system; but it seems fruitless.



>> But you said it was for the benefit of Las Vegas, not
>> California. Which end do you think benefits?

> Uh, Las Vegas (just in case I wasn't clear on that).

You weren’t, you had switched to the other end.


> How would you envision LA
> benefitting as opposed to Vegas?

The people that are in LA and want to get to Las Vegas. Try thinking about
the highway system; or the airline system. Get it?


> The interstate highway system did start with building one
> highway, but it was with the idea that the one highway would
> connect to the others that were planned to be built.

Not really. And it really didn’t matter. The first highway aided the town at
both ends. When extended, it aided two more, and on and on.


> This bullet train is a one-shot deal, not part of
> a national plan of bullet rail nationwide.

Actually it is, but so what? An improved transportation system between two
cities (with cities in-between) is quite similar to an intercity mass
transit system. Each section is an improvement in transportation. It saves
time and money. Were the bullet train only to run between LA and Vegas, it
would still accomplish its goal: Faster transportation; less fuel; better on
the environment; create jobs.



> Don't give me a 6th grade lecture on interstate highways.
> I am aware of their history and why they are important.

Then you should understand what the bullet train would do for the two
cities; employment; environment; safety and less dependence on oil. Same as
improving the highways (widening it, like they’re doing now) and bigger
airports.


> You and Studivant keep trying to analogize this bullet train
> to the interstate highway system and they are not analogous at all.

Only to you. It’s transportation.


> I wouldn't really be opposed (paradoxically enough) to the
> idea of a national bullet train system, but that would be
> something that would integrate national commerce, postal/parcel
> delivery, and commuter travel on a nationwide scale.

So the San Francisco BART system shouldn’t have been built? It improved
transportation between Concord and San Francisto.


> What is under discussion in these threads is a singular
> rail line, the sole purpose of which is to plant asses in
> front of slot machines in Las Vegas casinos

So? It benefits both ends. It creates jobs. It’s good for the environment.
It’s safer than the highways. It saves oil.

The BART system – or, for that matter, the Amtrak rail system corridors in
the northeast – has the “singular rail line, sole purpose of, which is to
plant asses in from of” their working desks in greater metropolitan cities.



Jerry ‘n Vegas









      
Date: 14 Feb 2009 21:18:19
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:59:05 -0800, "Abbey Johnsson"
<ac68dc0@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/03/la-to-vegas-other-high-speed-rail.html

>"The cost is tentatively put at $12 billion, and Congress is planning to
>provide $45 million to study the proposal further."

It is difficult to imagine a spot for a high speed train that makes
more sense. You can practically blast from LA to LV at 120 mph
anyway, never stopping. It's practically flat.

We're going to have to have high speed rail transit across the country
anyway at some point. And this, whatever it would cost, would be
absolutely certain to generate income, if for nobody else, for anyone
who plays cards in Vegas. Think of all the Asians and other mooks in
Los Angeles able to get to Vegas in a couple hours.

You don't think this would vastly and immediately improve the games in
Vegas? Fuck, I might show up for that shit.


       
Date: 16 Feb 2009 14:40:13
From: Abbey Johnsson
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 14 2009 9:18 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:

>You can practically blast from LA to LV at 120 mph
> anyway, never stopping. It's practically flat.
>

yes, much of it is relatively flat but there are a few steep grades to
the top of 4,500 foot passes. that may not seem like much but the passes
in Colorado really arent a whole lot more considering the western suburbs
of Denver are over 6,000 and the Eisenhower tunnel is 11,000. one of the
most dangerous grades in the us is the one down Cajon pass from
Victorville, ca to the LA basin, probably a 3,500 foot drop in about 20
miles. and the summit on I-15 east of Baker ca (elev 900) is about a 3,500
foot climb to the top of that next hill.
the east coast of the US is flat compared to the western areas.

--- 
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Date: 15 Feb 2009 06:15:14
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"A Man Beaten by Jacks"



> It is difficult to imagine a spot for a high speed train
> that makes more sense. You can practically blast from LA
> to LV at 120 mph anyway, never stopping. It's practically flat.

And the rail right away is already there. You can elevate this right above
the slow-moving freight trains.


Jerry 'n Vegas










      
Date: 14 Feb 2009 18:05:09
From: Abbey Johnsson
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 14 2009 8:59 PM, Abbey Johnsson wrote:

> On Feb 14 2009 11:56 AM, Jerry Sturdivant wrote:
>
> > "FL Turbo" <noemail@notime.com> wrote
> >
> >
> > > I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.
> >
> > They figure it would cost $45 million.
> >
> > "The FRA (Federal Railroad Association) is preparing an Environmental
Impact
> > Statement (EIS) for the proposed DesertXpress high-speed train project in
> > cooperation with the Surface Transportation Board, the Federal Highway
> > Administration, the Bureau of Land Management, the California Department
of
> > Transportation, and the Nevada Department of Transportation."
> > http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1703
> >
> >
> > Jerry 'n Vegas
>
> just to be clear, the $45 million is to study the project some more. the
> actual construction is estimated at 12 billion. and as all govt projects
> go, that 12b will turn into 30b.
>
>
> http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/03/la-to-vegas-other-high-speed-rail.html
>
> "The cost is tentatively put at $12 billion, and Congress is planning to
> provide $45 million to study the proposal further."

$45 million is about what it will cost per mile, or about $10,000 per
foot.

---- 
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



     
Date: 14 Feb 2009 11:32:25
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
"Jerry Sturdivant"

>> I wonder if they have filed all the Environmental Impact statements.
>
> They figure it would cost $45 million.

Is there a line on the over/under on that figure?




      
Date: 14 Feb 2009 10:35:14
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"da pickle" <jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com > wrote


>> They figure it would cost $45 million.

> Is there a line on the over/under on that figure?

You think the government would give a low estimate? Have you no faith? Can I
have the over?


Jerry (betting) ‘n Vegas








       
Date: 14 Feb 2009 13:09:08
From: da pickle
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
"Jerry Sturdivant"

>>> They figure it would cost $45 million.
>
>> Is there a line on the over/under on that figure?
>
> You think the government would give a low estimate? Have you no faith? Can
> I
> have the over?

You seem to think the more the better, and faster would mean the "fix" will
work even better.

Have you no faith?




        
Date: 14 Feb 2009 13:07:28
From: Jerry Sturdivant
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

"da pickle"

>> They figure it would cost $45 million.
>>
>> Is there a line on the over/under on that figure?
>>
>> You think the government would give a low estimate? Have you no faith?
>> Can
>> I have the over?

> You seem to think the more the better

I don’t see where I seemed to think that.

There will be an obvious cost, but it’s mostly desert and for that length of
track, a rather good price.


Jerry ‘n Vegas







 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 05:44:48
From: Bob T.
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
On Feb 13, 3:27=A0am, nine...@webtv.net (Travel A) wrote:
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/
>
> The L.A. to Vegas high speed train has been in the planning stages for
> years. The design/build/impact process has pretty much been given all
> the serious preliminary thought necessary, already. The project has
> always been held back due to lack of funding, only. Which is a big
> "only".
>
> This is a project I like. This effort is also likely to be a high
> profile project that will be closely observed as a symbol of the
> "stimulus package" in Democrat Majority Leader Reid's own state; I'd
> expect this to be a "model project" that finally gets built and done
> right.

If I say that I agree with you completely will you promise not to
mention tents?

- Bob T.


 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 04:25:33
From: BillB
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill


"Travel A" <nine510@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:8567-4995590A-3139@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com...

> This is a project I like.

communist



  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 07:15:38
From: Travel
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
"BillB" Usenet Poster
bogus@shaw1.ca Post #4 of 4 (1 views) Copy Shortcut Feb 13, 2009,
7:25 AM
Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill - NEW Reply

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------



"Travel A" <nine510@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:8567-4995590A-3139@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com...

> This is a project I like.

communist

...........................................................

Public works projects and infrastructure are what the government is
supposed to do with taxes. Know anyone who owns an international
airport?; Hoover Dam?

Moron.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://www.pokermagazine.com
Visit www.pokermagazine.com


 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 04:17:35
From: Travel A
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill

http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/03/la...peed-rail.html

The above linked blog entry was written before the high speed train
funding, which will be available through the current, final "Stimulus
Package".




 
Date: 13 Feb 2009 04:11:48
From: Travel A
Subject: Re: L.A. To Vegas High Speed Train In Stimulus Bill
http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/03/la-to-vegas-other-high-speed-rail.html