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Main
Date: 08 Dec 2008 14:01:33
From: DaVoice
Subject: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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Ok. Loaded a fresh NEW copy of XP Pro sp3 onto a hard drive to
"frankenstein" a computer together from 4 old ones. I know the HD's both
work, and I loaded the CD onto one of the HD's and started it using
setup.exe on MY computer to make sure it was working, but obviously couldn't
continue the install because It needs to register on the OTHER computer, and
wanted to write to MY C: drive. So at that point I loaded that HD and
another that I unpartioned and formatted using my computer and also added it
as a "slave" drive (using the jumper settings) to the "frankenstein
computer".
Now I have the Frankenstein ready to go, except that it won't boot by
itself. I have no clue how to get to a prompt where I can co to the C: and
type setup so it will run on that computer.
Do I need to create a setup CD? Is there a way to get to a prompt? I can
get to the bios, and at one point set the boot order to CD first, but it
didn't read the autorun.inf that was on the CD. I've reset the bios to boot
from the C drive first, but it still won't start the installation, although
it TRIED to install on my DELL when I had it on for 10 minutes to transfer
the extracted files from the install CD.
I hope I'm making sense so far.
How can I get the Frankenstein computer to run the Win XP Pro sp3 that's
already ON the drive, but not installed?
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
--
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 17:53:41
From: johnny_t
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/647017.html
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 17:05:02
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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> How can I get the Frankenstein computer to run the Win XP Pro sp3 that's
> already ON the drive, but not installed?
If you have a floppy drive then make a bootable floppy with the CD driver
in config.sys so you can then get to the CD drive.
Dean
----
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 17:53:05
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"MrBookworm" <poker@kerl.com > wrote in message
news:uqs016x46m.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> How can I get the Frankenstein computer to run the Win XP Pro sp3 that's
>> already ON the drive, but not installed?
>
> If you have a floppy drive then make a bootable floppy with the CD driver
> in config.sys so you can then get to the CD drive.
>
> Dean
The "frankenstein machine" has a floppy, but my dell's floppy died years
ago, and I don't use it. I think my Grandson when he was about 18 months
old stuck something into it, but it won't read any media ever since and my
laptop doesn't have a floppy, so I can't use either coputer to create a
"boot diskette". I appreciate the response, but had already thought of
that, but don't have a floppy that works other than the one in the
frankenstein, and I'm really not even sure that one works, or I would take
it out, put it in my machine and make a boot diskette, but I'd probably
throw the other machine out the f'n window (after all of this) if the floppy
from it wouldn't work in my machine :).
Is there a way to make a boot CD that will work?
RC
--
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 17:01:01
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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On Dec 8 2008 4:01 PM, DaVoice wrote:
> Now I have the Frankenstein ready to go, except that it won't boot by
> itself. I have no clue how to get to a prompt where I can co to the C: and
> type setup so it will run on that computer.
What do you mean why it won't boot? What happens? Do you get a
ntoskrnl.exe not found error?
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
_______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 17:48:44
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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"XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:djs016xo4m.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 8 2008 4:01 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>
>> Now I have the Frankenstein ready to go, except that it won't boot by
>> itself. I have no clue how to get to a prompt where I can co to the C:
>> and
>> type setup so it will run on that computer.
>
> What do you mean why it won't boot? What happens? Do you get a
> ntoskrnl.exe not found error?
>
> ---
> Morphy
We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and extracted,
it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive while
it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C: drive
and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to screw up
MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm being
clear about what is happeneing.
--
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 18:16:14
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and extracted,
> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive while
> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C: drive
> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to screw up
> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm being
> clear about what is happeneing.
You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not in
work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I leave
the building for the day, lol.
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
---
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 19:48:06
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>
>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>> extracted,
>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>> while
>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>> drive
>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to screw
>> up
>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm being
>> clear about what is happeneing.
>
> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not in
> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I leave
> the building for the day, lol.
>
> ---
> Morphy
For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
autorun.inf file.
RC
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 23:18:54
From: PHX
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
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"DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net > wrote in message
news:1Ul%k.4152$uS1.1273@newsfe19.iad...
>
> "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>>
>>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
>>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>>> extracted,
>>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>>> while
>>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>>> drive
>>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to
>>> screw up
>>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm being
>>> clear about what is happeneing.
>>
>> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
>> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
>> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not
>> in
>> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I
>> leave
>> the building for the day, lol.
>>
>> ---
>> Morphy
>
> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
> autorun.inf file.
>
> RC
I am going to take a guess that perhaps the frankenCD wont read the
autorun.inf because it is to old to recognize the media the XP disk was
burned on. In other words, the XP (SP3) disk is a DVD.
There is TON of information on that disk, more than could possibly fit on a
single "CD".
Try a different, newer optical drive( with DVD capabilities) with the bios
set to boot from cdrom.
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Date: 09 Dec 2008 00:16:24
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"PHX" <nadanada@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:i5o%k.2361$vI1.2114@newsfe03.iad...
>
> "DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1Ul%k.4152$uS1.1273@newsfe19.iad...
>>
>> "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
>>> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>>>
>>>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
>>>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>>>> extracted,
>>>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>>>> while
>>>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>>>> drive
>>>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to
>>>> screw up
>>>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm
>>>> being
>>>> clear about what is happeneing.
>>>
>>> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
>>> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
>>> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not
>>> in
>>> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I
>>> leave
>>> the building for the day, lol.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Morphy
>>
>> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
>> autorun.inf file.
>>
>> RC
>
> I am going to take a guess that perhaps the frankenCD wont read the
> autorun.inf because it is to old to recognize the media the XP disk was
> burned on. In other words, the XP (SP3) disk is a DVD.
> There is TON of information on that disk, more than could possibly fit on
> a single "CD".
>
> Try a different, newer optical drive( with DVD capabilities) with the bios
> set to boot from cdrom.
Actually, surprisingly enough, XP PRO sp3 fits on a regular 700 mb CD, and
the CD drive I put in that machine was the one that I'd just bought for Pegs
last desktop less than 4 years ago. It's actually a CD/RW drive.
--
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
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Date: 09 Dec 2008 08:53:33
From: Kyle T. Jones
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
DaVoice, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 12/9/2008 2:16
AM or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> "PHX" <nadanada@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i5o%k.2361$vI1.2114@newsfe03.iad...
>> "DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:1Ul%k.4152$uS1.1273@newsfe19.iad...
>>> "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
>>>> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
>>>>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>>>>> extracted,
>>>>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>>>>> while
>>>>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>>>>> drive
>>>>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to
>>>>> screw up
>>>>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm
>>>>> being
>>>>> clear about what is happeneing.
>>>> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
>>>> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
>>>> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not
>>>> in
>>>> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I
>>>> leave
>>>> the building for the day, lol.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Morphy
>>> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
>>> autorun.inf file.
>>>
>>> RC
>> I am going to take a guess that perhaps the frankenCD wont read the
>> autorun.inf because it is to old to recognize the media the XP disk was
>> burned on. In other words, the XP (SP3) disk is a DVD.
>> There is TON of information on that disk, more than could possibly fit on
>> a single "CD".
>>
>> Try a different, newer optical drive( with DVD capabilities) with the bios
>> set to boot from cdrom.
>
>
> Actually, surprisingly enough, XP PRO sp3 fits on a regular 700 mb CD, and
> the CD drive I put in that machine was the one that I'd just bought for Pegs
> last desktop less than 4 years ago. It's actually a CD/RW drive.
How are the jumpers on that drive set? Master, Slave, or cable select?
Cheers.
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Date: 09 Dec 2008 02:30:42
From: PHX
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net > wrote in message
news:yPp%k.2371$vI1.807@newsfe03.iad...
>
> "PHX" <nadanada@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i5o%k.2361$vI1.2114@newsfe03.iad...
>>
>> "DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:1Ul%k.4152$uS1.1273@newsfe19.iad...
>>>
>>> "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
>>>> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense
>>>>> ( I
>>>>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>>>>> extracted,
>>>>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>>>>> while
>>>>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>>>>> drive
>>>>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to
>>>>> screw up
>>>>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm
>>>>> being
>>>>> clear about what is happeneing.
>>>>
>>>> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
>>>> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
>>>> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not
>>>> in
>>>> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I
>>>> leave
>>>> the building for the day, lol.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Morphy
>>>
>>> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing
>>> the autorun.inf file.
>>>
>>> RC
>>
>> I am going to take a guess that perhaps the frankenCD wont read the
>> autorun.inf because it is to old to recognize the media the XP disk was
>> burned on. In other words, the XP (SP3) disk is a DVD.
>> There is TON of information on that disk, more than could possibly fit on
>> a single "CD".
>>
>> Try a different, newer optical drive( with DVD capabilities) with the
>> bios set to boot from cdrom.
>
>
> Actually, surprisingly enough, XP PRO sp3 fits on a regular 700 mb CD, and
> the CD drive I put in that machine was the one that I'd just bought for
> Pegs last desktop less than 4 years ago. It's actually a CD/RW drive.
> --
> Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
Ah, good to know.
Someone else mentioned boot disks...Will it boot from another bootable CD?
Anyway you can find boot disks here...
http://www.bootdisk.com/
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 20:20:18
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
On Dec 8 2008 9:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
> autorun.inf file.
You shouldn't be trying to run setup from within windows, you should be
trying to boot the computer from the CD. Does the machine boot with ANY
bootable CD in it?
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
------
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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Date: 09 Dec 2008 00:11:11
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid > wrote in message
news:298116xt8n.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 8 2008 9:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>
>> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
>> autorun.inf file.
>
> You shouldn't be trying to run setup from within windows, you should be
> trying to boot the computer from the CD. Does the machine boot with ANY
> bootable CD in it?
>
> ---
> Morphy
I don't know. I don't have an bootable CD's that don't require Windows to
be installed. I used to have some old DOS games, etc that were bootable
CD's, but lost those in the Storm. Only had time to grab the 'puters,
monitors, and external hard drives, didn't even bring the wirless equipment.
We thought Katrina would be "just another one that missed us" as so many had
in the past 4 years prior, but when I saw the satellites and radars and the
jog back to the West, we grabbed everthing we could put into two cars, and
got the hell outta Dodge. I'd only been home from Vegas for 2 nights. Just
glad I was there, since Peg and Ricky got a room in Gulfport and decided
that we didn't need to "bug out".
(worst thing, when I woke up and decided we were going to leave, the f'ers
at the G'port hotel I won't say which one WOULD NOT refund our money, even
though we saw later that they were FULL and lost the entire first floor.
Karma?
--
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 21:59:08
From: mccard
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net > wrote in message
news:1Ul%k.4152$uS1.1273@newsfe19.iad...
>
> "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
>> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>>
>>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
>>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>>> extracted,
>>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>>> while
>>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>>> drive
>>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to
>>> screw up
>>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm being
>>> clear about what is happeneing.
>>
>> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
>> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
>> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not
>> in
>> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I
>> leave
>> the building for the day, lol.
>>
>> ---
>> Morphy
>
> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
> autorun.inf file.
>
Poke around the BIOS a little bit and find the option to make the CD the
boot disk, then try it again. This assumes you are using a "genuine"
Windows CD and haven't already set the BIOS to boot from CD. If you have
already done this, ignore me and wait for real help :)
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Date: 09 Dec 2008 00:03:46
From: DaVoice
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
"mccard" <no_won@no_won.none > wrote in message
news:Q2m%k.21958$v37.14703@newsfe01.iad...
>
> "DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1Ul%k.4152$uS1.1273@newsfe19.iad...
>>
>> "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5905@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:e01116xsfm.ln2@recgroups.com...
>>> On Dec 8 2008 7:48 PM, DaVoice wrote:
>>>
>>>> We get "No operating system found" error message, which makes sense ( I
>>>> guess) because even though the operating system is on the HD and
>>>> extracted,
>>>> it's never been INSTALLED. I didn't want to INSTALL it to that drive
>>>> while
>>>> it was connected to my computer, because it wanted to write to the C:
>>>> drive
>>>> and there was no way of changing the drive letter. I don't want to
>>>> screw up
>>>> MY XP or m REGISTRY by installing the OS on another HD. I hope I'm
>>>> being
>>>> clear about what is happeneing.
>>>
>>> You're probably being more clear than I'm understanding. Is there a
>>> reason you can't just put 1 blank HD in the machine, boot off the XP CD
>>> and install it to that? If I'm missing something I apologize...I'm not
>>> in
>>> work mode anymore so I typically shut off that part of my brain as I
>>> leave
>>> the building for the day, lol.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Morphy
>>
>> For some reason the CD drive on the frankenstein machine isn't seeing the
>> autorun.inf file.
>>
> Poke around the BIOS a little bit and find the option to make the CD the
> boot disk, then try it again. This assumes you are using a "genuine"
> Windows CD and haven't already set the BIOS to boot from CD. If you have
> already done this, ignore me and wait for real help :)
I had already done that, but seriously, thanks for replying. I'm not being
sarcastic, either.
Sometimes people get JADED in R.G.P., but I've always found that when people
really need help, even the one's that may hate you come out of the woodwork
to offer assistance.
Best,
--
Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 18:39:36
From: pokertoker
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
Is this a 'retail box' copy of XP? If not it probably has a BIOS lock so
that it will only work on the motherboard it came on originally. Say thanks
to bg for that one.
--
Duncan McPT - Highlander,
"It is no measure of good health to be well-adjusted in a profoundly sick
society."
Krishnamurti
"DaVoice" <davoicergp@cox.net > wrote in message
news:7Pg%k.2688$dm3.1281@newsfe02.iad...
> Ok. Loaded a fresh NEW copy of XP Pro sp3 onto a hard drive to
> "frankenstein" a computer together from 4 old ones. I know the HD's both
> work, and I loaded the CD onto one of the HD's and started it using
> setup.exe on MY computer to make sure it was working, but obviously
couldn't
> continue the install because It needs to register on the OTHER computer,
and
> wanted to write to MY C: drive. So at that point I loaded that HD and
> another that I unpartioned and formatted using my computer and also added
it
> as a "slave" drive (using the jumper settings) to the "frankenstein
> computer".
>
> Now I have the Frankenstein ready to go, except that it won't boot by
> itself. I have no clue how to get to a prompt where I can co to the C: and
> type setup so it will run on that computer.
>
> Do I need to create a setup CD? Is there a way to get to a prompt? I can
> get to the bios, and at one point set the boot order to CD first, but it
> didn't read the autorun.inf that was on the CD. I've reset the bios to
boot
> from the C drive first, but it still won't start the installation,
although
> it TRIED to install on my DELL when I had it on for 10 minutes to transfer
> the extracted files from the install CD.
>
> I hope I'm making sense so far.
>
> How can I get the Frankenstein computer to run the Win XP Pro sp3 that's
> already ON the drive, but not installed?
>
> Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
>
> --
> Rick "ADB DaVoice" Charles
>
>
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Date: 08 Dec 2008 17:03:28
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: HELP...need what should be a simple computer question answered
|
On Dec 8 2008 6:39 PM, pokertoker wrote:
> Is this a 'retail box' copy of XP? If not it probably has a BIOS lock so
> that it will only work on the motherboard it came on originally. Say thanks
> to bg for that one.
lolol, BIOS lock? BG = Bill Gates I assume? Yup, let's blame the guy who
hasn't been involved in day to day microsoft operations on some made up
bullshit called a BIOS lock. Awesome!
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
"SHUT UP IDIOT" --The Great Patholio
_______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
|
|
