pokerfied.com
Promoting poker discussions.

Main
Date: 20 Feb 2009 09:47:09
From: nefletch
Subject: Caution: poker content
OK, I am pretty sure of the answer, but
just learning Omaha hi-lo, and I had a
question. 8 players, me and one other
guy have the deepest stacks. He is super
aggresive, always raising big. I am in the
BB, he is on the button. Pre flop, it is
folded around to him, and he goes all in
for 300 big blinds.... SB folds, and I
hold A234 with the A2 suited. I fold,
not wanting to commit my stack with a
low draw, and a single flush draw.

1st. was I correct in folding?
( I think I was )
2nd. if I was correct to fold, how much
of a dog was I ?

thank you in advance






 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 19:09:54
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
Gary, they're discussing NLO8, not PLO8 in case you missed it. Say the
game is $2-$4 blinds and the person goes all-in for $500 preflop
(which is normal in these games). The person with AA usually has two
small ones with his hand. Having nothing invested, it's far better to
wait, as it's almost imperative you catch three wheel cards to have a
chance of scoping, let alone winning half. About 50% of the time the
board will pair, putting you in a bad position to win any of it.

It's like the old games of the past where they had no ante or blind,
just the dealer putting in a dollar.




On Feb 20, 6:50=EF=BF=BDpm, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.ed=
u >
wrote:
> On Feb 20 2009 6:02 PM, RussGeorg...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Far better to play 4567 than A234 in this spot, as the allin man is
> > most definately on AAxx This way, you have a better chance of making
> > low straights ranging up to J1098 and scopping
>
> I don't put someone described as "He is super
> aggresive, always raising big." on AAxx
>
> I'll call with the three suited A234 in a heartbeat.
>
> --------=EF=BF=BD
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader :www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 21 Feb 2009 01:30:13
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20 2009 10:09 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> Gary, they're discussing NLO8, not PLO8 in case you missed it. Say the
> game is $2-$4 blinds and the person goes all-in for $500 preflop
> (which is normal in these games). The person with AA usually has two
> small ones with his hand. Having nothing invested, it's far better to
> wait, as it's almost imperative you catch three wheel cards to have a
> chance of scoping, let alone winning half. About 50% of the time the
> board will pair, putting you in a bad position to win any of it.
>

Against a random player I fold.

But this isn't a random player and if he's been doing these kind of raises
a lot (and I've been folding) then I'll call with A234 because I see no
reason at all to put him on AA anything. He seems just as likely to have
something like JJ23, 4 suited.

----- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




   
Date: 21 Feb 2009 06:30:33
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 21 2009 3:30 AM, garycarson wrote:

> On Feb 20 2009 10:09 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Gary, they're discussing NLO8, not PLO8 in case you missed it. Say the
> > game is $2-$4 blinds and the person goes all-in for $500 preflop
> > (which is normal in these games). The person with AA usually has two
> > small ones with his hand. Having nothing invested, it's far better to
> > wait, as it's almost imperative you catch three wheel cards to have a
> > chance of scoping, let alone winning half. About 50% of the time the
> > board will pair, putting you in a bad position to win any of it.
> >
>
> Against a random player I fold.
>
> But this isn't a random player and if he's been doing these kind of raises
> a lot (and I've been folding) then I'll call with A234 because I see no
> reason at all to put him on AA anything. He seems just as likely to have
> something like JJ23, 4 suited.

You should buy and read a good poker book !!


Jason,you,
sir, are much, much stupider than FangBanger.

________________________________________________________________________ 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 18:59:24
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
I stated, "you'd be better off calling with 4567ss than with A234 if
you were going to call". I don't call allin bets with A234 in multiple
pots with multiple players in PLO8, let alone NL. Do you "COMPRENDE"
Moronphy?




On Feb 20, 3:20=EF=BF=BDpm, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 20 2009 5:02 PM, RussGeorg...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Far better to play 4567 than A234 in this spot, as the allin man is
> > most definately on AAxx This way, you have a better chance of making
> > low straights ranging up to J1098 and scopping
>
> Just for clarification because it's hard to understand what you're trying
> to say. =EF=BF=BDIf I understand your post correctly you're saying you wo=
uld call
> your entire stack away preflop in a no limit Omaha 8 game with 4567
> because you have a better chance of "scooping", which I what I assume you
> meant to type?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmor...@donkeymanifesto.comhttp://www.donkeymanifesto.com
>
> "I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" =EF=BF=BD--igotskillz
>
> "It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
> obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra
>
> ______________________________________________________________________=EF=
=BF=BD
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader :www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 15:02:40
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
Far better to play 4567 than A234 in this spot, as the allin man is
most definately on AAxx This way, you have a better chance of making
low straights ranging up to J1098 and scopping





On Feb 20, 8:47=EF=BF=BDam, "nefletch" <acek...@bbc.net > wrote:
> OK, I am pretty sure of the answer, but
> just learning Omaha hi-lo, and I had a
> question. =EF=BF=BD8 players, me and one other
> guy have the =EF=BF=BDdeepest stacks. =EF=BF=BDHe is super
> aggresive, always raising big. =EF=BF=BDI am in the
> BB, he is on the button. =EF=BF=BDPre flop, it is
> folded around to him, and he goes all in
> for =EF=BF=BD300 big blinds.... SB folds, and I
> hold A234 =EF=BF=BDwith the A2 suited. =EF=BF=BDI fold,
> not wanting to commit my stack with a
> low draw, and a single flush draw.
>
> 1st. =EF=BF=BDwas I correct in folding?
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD( I =
think I was )
> 2nd. if I was correct to fold, how much
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD of a dog was I ?
>
> thank you in advance



  
Date: 20 Feb 2009 18:50:41
From: garycarson
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20 2009 6:02 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> Far better to play 4567 than A234 in this spot, as the allin man is
> most definately on AAxx This way, you have a better chance of making
> low straights ranging up to J1098 and scopping
>

I don't put someone described as "He is super
aggresive, always raising big." on AAxx

I'll call with the three suited A234 in a heartbeat.

-------- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 20 Feb 2009 15:20:44
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20 2009 5:02 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> Far better to play 4567 than A234 in this spot, as the allin man is
> most definately on AAxx This way, you have a better chance of making
> low straights ranging up to J1098 and scopping

Just for clarification because it's hard to understand what you're trying
to say. If I understand your post correctly you're saying you would call
your entire stack away preflop in a no limit Omaha 8 game with 4567
because you have a better chance of "scooping", which I what I assume you
meant to type?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

______________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




   
Date: 20 Feb 2009 15:28:34
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20 2009 5:20 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 20 2009 5:02 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Far better to play 4567 than A234 in this spot, as the allin man is
> > most definately on AAxx This way, you have a better chance of making
> > low straights ranging up to J1098 and scopping
>
> Just for clarification because it's hard to understand what you're trying
> to say. If I understand your post correctly you're saying you would call
> your entire stack away preflop in a no limit Omaha 8 game with 4567
> because you have a better chance of "scooping", which I what I assume you
> meant to type?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
>
> "I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz
>
> "It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
> obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

This is shaping up to be entertaining :)

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

----- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 14:57:38
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
WAIT, ask MORONPHY to answer this question. They play NLO online:).





On Feb 20, 2:42=EF=BF=BDpm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 20 2009 11:01 AM, johnny_t wrote:
>
> > This game is horrible in a NL format... The guy will lose big as soon a=
s
> > a couple of people get sick of it...
>
> > Unlike Holdem, it is almost never *reasonable* to go all-in unless you
> > have infinite pockets, or they have very shallow ones. =EF=BF=BDGambler=
s ruin is
> > almost always there.
>
> Johhny Chan told a friend of mine in 1984 that NO ONE had enough money to
> play Omaha PLO
> Almost nowhere do they play N/L Omaha!!
>
>
>
>
>
> > You should try and talk folks into a PL format which is much more
> > reasonable for this game.
>
> > You are not that bad off and depending on his hand, and there is no rea=
l
> > reason to believe that he has AK DS, and pretty good reason to believe
> > he doesn't you may be ahead...
>
> > pokenum =EF=BF=BD-mc 500000 =EF=BF=BD-o8 as 2s 3d 4c =EF=BF=BD- ah kh a=
d kd
> > Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
> > cards =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD scoop =EF=BF=BD=
HIwin =EF=BF=BD HIlos =EF=BF=BDHItie =EF=BF=BD LOwin =EF=BF=BDLOlos =EF=BF=
=BDLOtie =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD EV
> > As 2s =EF=BF=BD4c =EF=BF=BD3d =EF=BF=BD140797 =EF=BF=BD140797 =EF=BF=BD=
359203 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD271755 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =
=EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.445
> > Ad Kd =EF=BF=BDAh =EF=BF=BDKh =EF=BF=BD195891 =EF=BF=BD359203 =EF=BF=BD=
140797 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 0 =EF=
=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.555
>
> > pokenum =EF=BF=BD-mc 500000 =EF=BF=BD-o8 as 2s 3d 4c =EF=BF=BD- qh jh t=
d 9d
> > Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
> > cards =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD scoop =EF=BF=BD=
HIwin =EF=BF=BD HIlos =EF=BF=BDHItie =EF=BF=BD LOwin =EF=BF=BDLOlos =EF=BF=
=BDLOtie =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD EV
> > As 2s =EF=BF=BD4c =EF=BF=BD3d =EF=BF=BD212233 =EF=BF=BD212233 =EF=BF=BD=
287767 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD310708 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =
=EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.569
> > Td 9d =EF=BF=BDQh =EF=BF=BDJh =EF=BF=BD142803 =EF=BF=BD287767 =EF=BF=BD=
212233 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 0 =EF=
=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.431
>
> Jason,you,
> sir, are much, much stupider than FangBanger.
>
> -------=EF=BF=BD
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide q=
uoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 14:56:03
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
If Johnny Chan told you no one had enough money to play PLO in 1984,
he's a fool and you're a fool to believe it. Chan barely had a couple
of quarters in those days, plus the game was new in Vegas, as Gwen
brought it down in 1983.

PLO can always be played as the blinds determine the size of the game.




On Feb 20, 2:42=EF=BF=BDpm, "FangBanger" <a29b...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 20 2009 11:01 AM, johnny_t wrote:
>
> > This game is horrible in a NL format... The guy will lose big as soon a=
s
> > a couple of people get sick of it...
>
> > Unlike Holdem, it is almost never *reasonable* to go all-in unless you
> > have infinite pockets, or they have very shallow ones. =EF=BF=BDGambler=
s ruin is
> > almost always there.
>
> Johhny Chan told a friend of mine in 1984 that NO ONE had enough money to
> play Omaha PLO
> Almost nowhere do they play N/L Omaha!!
>
>
>
>
>
> > You should try and talk folks into a PL format which is much more
> > reasonable for this game.
>
> > You are not that bad off and depending on his hand, and there is no rea=
l
> > reason to believe that he has AK DS, and pretty good reason to believe
> > he doesn't you may be ahead...
>
> > pokenum =EF=BF=BD-mc 500000 =EF=BF=BD-o8 as 2s 3d 4c =EF=BF=BD- ah kh a=
d kd
> > Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
> > cards =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD scoop =EF=BF=BD=
HIwin =EF=BF=BD HIlos =EF=BF=BDHItie =EF=BF=BD LOwin =EF=BF=BDLOlos =EF=BF=
=BDLOtie =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD EV
> > As 2s =EF=BF=BD4c =EF=BF=BD3d =EF=BF=BD140797 =EF=BF=BD140797 =EF=BF=BD=
359203 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD271755 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =
=EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.445
> > Ad Kd =EF=BF=BDAh =EF=BF=BDKh =EF=BF=BD195891 =EF=BF=BD359203 =EF=BF=BD=
140797 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 0 =EF=
=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.555
>
> > pokenum =EF=BF=BD-mc 500000 =EF=BF=BD-o8 as 2s 3d 4c =EF=BF=BD- qh jh t=
d 9d
> > Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
> > cards =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD scoop =EF=BF=BD=
HIwin =EF=BF=BD HIlos =EF=BF=BDHItie =EF=BF=BD LOwin =EF=BF=BDLOlos =EF=BF=
=BDLOtie =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD EV
> > As 2s =EF=BF=BD4c =EF=BF=BD3d =EF=BF=BD212233 =EF=BF=BD212233 =EF=BF=BD=
287767 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD310708 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =
=EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.569
> > Td 9d =EF=BF=BDQh =EF=BF=BDJh =EF=BF=BD142803 =EF=BF=BD287767 =EF=BF=BD=
212233 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 0 =EF=
=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD0 =EF=BF=BD0.431
>
> Jason,you,
> sir, are much, much stupider than FangBanger.
>
> -------=EF=BF=BD
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide q=
uoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 14:40:13
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20 2009 10:47 AM, nefletch wrote:

> OK, I am pretty sure of the answer, but
> just learning Omaha hi-lo, and I had a
> question. 8 players, me and one other
> guy have the deepest stacks. He is super
> aggresive, always raising big. I am in the
> BB, he is on the button. Pre flop, it is
> folded around to him, and he goes all in
> for 300 big blinds.... SB folds, and I
> hold A234 with the A2 suited. I fold,
> not wanting to commit my stack with a
> low draw, and a single flush draw.
>
> 1st. was I correct in folding?
> ( I think I was )
> 2nd. if I was correct to fold, how much
> of a dog was I ?
>
> thank you in advance

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THING TO DO ... ANYONE WHO SAYS DIFFERENT IS A FOOL !!

Jason,you,
sir, are much, much stupider than FangBanger.

_____________________________________________________________________ 
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 09:01:47
From: johnny_t
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
This game is horrible in a NL format... The guy will lose big as soon as
a couple of people get sick of it...

Unlike Holdem, it is almost never *reasonable* to go all-in unless you
have infinite pockets, or they have very shallow ones. Gamblers ruin is
almost always there.

You should try and talk folks into a PL format which is much more
reasonable for this game.

You are not that bad off and depending on his hand, and there is no real
reason to believe that he has AK DS, and pretty good reason to believe
he doesn't you may be ahead...

pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as 2s 3d 4c - ah kh ad kd
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 2s 4c 3d 140797 140797 359203 0 271755 0 0 0.445
Ad Kd Ah Kh 195891 359203 140797 0 0 0 0 0.555

pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as 2s 3d 4c - qh jh td 9d
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 2s 4c 3d 212233 212233 287767 0 310708 0 0 0.569
Td 9d Qh Jh 142803 287767 212233 0 0 0 0 0.431


  
Date: 20 Feb 2009 14:42:11
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20 2009 11:01 AM, johnny_t wrote:

> This game is horrible in a NL format... The guy will lose big as soon as
> a couple of people get sick of it...
>
> Unlike Holdem, it is almost never *reasonable* to go all-in unless you
> have infinite pockets, or they have very shallow ones. Gamblers ruin is
> almost always there.
>

Johhny Chan told a friend of mine in 1984 that NO ONE had enough money to
play Omaha PLO
Almost nowhere do they play N/L Omaha!!


> You should try and talk folks into a PL format which is much more
> reasonable for this game.
>
> You are not that bad off and depending on his hand, and there is no real
> reason to believe that he has AK DS, and pretty good reason to believe
> he doesn't you may be ahead...
>
> pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as 2s 3d 4c - ah kh ad kd
> Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
> cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
> As 2s 4c 3d 140797 140797 359203 0 271755 0 0 0.445
> Ad Kd Ah Kh 195891 359203 140797 0 0 0 0 0.555
>
> pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as 2s 3d 4c - qh jh td 9d
> Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
> cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
> As 2s 4c 3d 212233 212233 287767 0 310708 0 0 0.569
> Td 9d Qh Jh 142803 287767 212233 0 0 0 0 0.431


Jason,you,
sir, are much, much stupider than FangBanger.

------- 
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



 
Date: 20 Feb 2009 08:53:39
From: Will in New Haven
Subject: Re: Caution: poker content
On Feb 20, 11:47=A0am, "nefletch" <acek...@bbc.net > wrote:
> OK, I am pretty sure of the answer, but
> just learning Omaha hi-lo, and I had a
> question. =A08 players, me and one other
> guy have the =A0deepest stacks. =A0He is super
> aggresive, always raising big. =A0I am in the
> BB, he is on the button. =A0Pre flop, it is
> folded around to him, and he goes all in
> for =A0300 big blinds.... SB folds, and I
> hold A234 =A0with the A2 suited. =A0I fold,
> not wanting to commit my stack with a
> low draw, and a single flush draw.
>
> 1st. =A0was I correct in folding?
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0( I think I was )
> 2nd. if I was correct to fold, how much
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 of a dog was I ?
>
> thank you in advance

Learn not to play NLO8. I can't think of a worse structure/game.

--
Will in New Haven