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Date: 03 Feb 2009 21:18:44
From: MrBookworm
Subject: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were a
lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
afraid to re-open the betting:

PokerStars Game #24577644620: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/02/04
0:07:39 ET
Table 'Chort V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: testarosso ($5.88 in chips)
Seat 2: cava13 ($9.71 in chips)
Seat 3: JT Trucker ($4.56 in chips)
Seat 4: Split Fusion ($10.34 in chips)
Seat 5: MrBookworm ($11.14 in chips)
Seat 6: Capbeta ($9.43 in chips)
JT Trucker: posts small blind $0.02
Split Fusion: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrBookworm [Jd Js 4s Td]
MrBookworm: raises $0.10 to $0.15
Capbeta: calls $0.15
testarosso: calls $0.15
cava13: folds
JT Trucker: calls $0.13
Split Fusion: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4d Ts]
JT Trucker: bets $0.25
Split Fusion: calls $0.25
MrBookworm: calls $0.25
Capbeta: folds
testarosso: folds
*** TURN *** [Qs 4d Ts] [9d]
JT Trucker: bets $0.50
Split Fusion: calls $0.50
MrBookworm: calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4d Ts 9d] [4c]
JT Trucker: bets $0.75
Split Fusion: calls $0.75
MrBookworm: calls $0.75
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JT Trucker: shows [8h Qc Kd Ah] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
Split Fusion: shows [9s Kh 5c Qd] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
MrBookworm: shows [Jd Js 4s Td] (a full house, Fours full of Tens)
MrBookworm collected $5 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.25




 
Date: 04 Feb 2009 06:34:19
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 3 2009 11:18 PM, MrBookworm wrote:

> I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were a
> lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> afraid to re-open the betting:
>
> PokerStars Game #24577644620: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/02/04
> 0:07:39 ET
> Table 'Chort V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
> Seat 1: testarosso ($5.88 in chips)
> Seat 2: cava13 ($9.71 in chips)
> Seat 3: JT Trucker ($4.56 in chips)
> Seat 4: Split Fusion ($10.34 in chips)
> Seat 5: MrBookworm ($11.14 in chips)
> Seat 6: Capbeta ($9.43 in chips)
> JT Trucker: posts small blind $0.02
> Split Fusion: posts big blind $0.05
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to MrBookworm [Jd Js 4s Td]
> MrBookworm: raises $0.10 to $0.15
> Capbeta: calls $0.15
> testarosso: calls $0.15
> cava13: folds
> JT Trucker: calls $0.13
> Split Fusion: calls $0.10
> *** FLOP *** [Qs 4d Ts]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.25
> Split Fusion: calls $0.25
> MrBookworm: calls $0.25
> Capbeta: folds
> testarosso: folds
> *** TURN *** [Qs 4d Ts] [9d]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.50
> Split Fusion: calls $0.50
> MrBookworm: calls $0.50
> *** RIVER *** [Qs 4d Ts 9d] [4c]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.75
> Split Fusion: calls $0.75
> MrBookworm: calls $0.75
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> JT Trucker: shows [8h Qc Kd Ah] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
> Split Fusion: shows [9s Kh 5c Qd] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
> MrBookworm: shows [Jd Js 4s Td] (a full house, Fours full of Tens)
> MrBookworm collected $5 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $5.25


  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 18:27:38
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
How did you know? It all goes back to my childhood, when I used to
steal the Wino's whine:).




On Feb 4, 5:02=EF=BF=BDpm, "Wayne Vinson" <a7a8...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 4 2009 4:07 PM, RussGeorg...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Water seeks it's own level. At least you know what posts you're
> > qualified to answer. 2 cent 4 cent? Maybe 5 cent 10 cent :). Iffy
> > though
>
> You've gotten incredibly insecure of late. =EF=BF=BDit think it all start=
ed when
> you had do back down from Barry's challenge.
>
> Wayne Vinsonhttp://cardsharp.org/
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
=EF=BF=BD
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader :www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 14:07:40
From: RussGeorgiev@aol.com
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
Water seeks it's own level. At least you know what posts you're
qualified to answer. 2 cent 4 cent? Maybe 5 cent 10 cent :). Iffy
though






On Feb 4, 6:34=EF=BF=BDam, "Wayne Vinson" <a7a8...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Feb 3 2009 11:18 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There wer=
e a
> > lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> > afraid to re-open the betting:
>
> > PokerStars Game #24577644620: =EF=BF=BDOmaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - =
2009/02/04
> > 0:07:39 ET
> > Table 'Chort V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
> > Seat 1: testarosso ($5.88 in chips)
> > Seat 2: cava13 ($9.71 in chips)
> > Seat 3: JT Trucker ($4.56 in chips)
> > Seat 4: Split Fusion ($10.34 in chips)
> > Seat 5: MrBookworm ($11.14 in chips)
> > Seat 6: Capbeta ($9.43 in chips)
> > JT Trucker: posts small blind $0.02
> > Split Fusion: posts big blind $0.05
> > *** HOLE CARDS ***
> > Dealt to MrBookworm [Jd Js 4s Td]
> > MrBookworm: raises $0.10 to $0.15
> > Capbeta: calls $0.15
> > testarosso: calls $0.15
> > cava13: folds
> > JT Trucker: calls $0.13
> > Split Fusion: calls $0.10
> > *** FLOP *** [Qs 4d Ts]
> > JT Trucker: bets $0.25
> > Split Fusion: calls $0.25
> > MrBookworm: calls $0.25
> > Capbeta: folds
> > testarosso: folds
> > *** TURN *** [Qs 4d Ts] [9d]
> > JT Trucker: bets $0.50
> > Split Fusion: calls $0.50
> > MrBookworm: calls $0.50
> > *** RIVER *** [Qs 4d Ts 9d] [4c]
> > JT Trucker: bets $0.75
> > Split Fusion: calls $0.75
> > MrBookworm: calls $0.75
> > *** SHOW DOWN ***
> > JT Trucker: shows [8h Qc Kd Ah] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
> > Split Fusion: shows [9s Kh 5c Qd] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
> > MrBookworm: shows [Jd Js 4s Td] (a full house, Fours full of Tens)
> > MrBookworm collected $5 from pot
> > *** SUMMARY ***
> > Total pot $5.25


   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 17:02:39
From: Wayne Vinson
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 4:07 PM, RussGeorgiev@aol.com wrote:

> Water seeks it's own level. At least you know what posts you're
> qualified to answer. 2 cent 4 cent? Maybe 5 cent 10 cent :). Iffy
> though

You've gotten incredibly insecure of late. it think it all started when
you had do back down from Barry's challenge.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org/
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

_______________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




 
Date: 04 Feb 2009 08:51:28
From:
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4, 12:18=A0am, "MrBookworm" <a825...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were =
a
> lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> afraid to re-open the betting:
>
> PokerStars Game #24577644620: =A0Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/02/=
04
> 0:07:39 ET
> Table 'Chort V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
> Seat 1: testarosso ($5.88 in chips)
> Seat 2: cava13 ($9.71 in chips)
> Seat 3: JT Trucker ($4.56 in chips)
> Seat 4: Split Fusion ($10.34 in chips)
> Seat 5: MrBookworm ($11.14 in chips)
> Seat 6: Capbeta ($9.43 in chips)
> JT Trucker: posts small blind $0.02
> Split Fusion: posts big blind $0.05
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to MrBookworm [Jd Js 4s Td]
> MrBookworm: raises $0.10 to $0.15
> Capbeta: calls $0.15
> testarosso: calls $0.15
> cava13: folds
> JT Trucker: calls $0.13
> Split Fusion: calls $0.10
> *** FLOP *** [Qs 4d Ts]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.25
> Split Fusion: calls $0.25
> MrBookworm: calls $0.25
> Capbeta: folds
> testarosso: folds
> *** TURN *** [Qs 4d Ts] [9d]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.50
> Split Fusion: calls $0.50
> MrBookworm: calls $0.50
> *** RIVER *** [Qs 4d Ts 9d] [4c]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.75
> Split Fusion: calls $0.75
> MrBookworm: calls $0.75
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> JT Trucker: shows [8h Qc Kd Ah] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
> Split Fusion: shows [9s Kh 5c Qd] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
> MrBookworm: shows [Jd Js 4s Td] (a full house, Fours full of Tens)
> MrBookworm collected $5 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot $5.25


 
Date: 04 Feb 2009 07:33:46
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 3 2009 11:18 PM, MrBookworm wrote:

> I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were a
> lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> afraid to re-open the betting:

I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the flop
and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game I'd
raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but there are
so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the way
up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you off
all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top pair.

Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amounts
in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistake
not to raise.

The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

-------
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:55:16
From:
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4, 11:53=A0am, "FellKnight" <jordandevenp...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 4 2009 11:14 AM, trangers16 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 10:04=A0am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > > I'll go against the grain here. =A0I probably limp preflop, fold on=
the
> flop
> > > > and fold on the turn. =A0But once you see that river in a nickel ga=
me I'd
> > > > raise all day long. =A0Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but =
there
> are
> > > > so many hands that are going to pay you off. =A0I'd raise that all =
the way
> > > > up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay yo=
u off
> > > > all day long. =A0At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has t=
op pair.
>
> > > > Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the am=
ounts
> > > > in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case w=
here
> > > > the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mi=
stake
> > > > not to raise.
>
> > > > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
>
> > > I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so=
I
> > > STFU. =A0Now that I have at least one backer I am in.
>
> > > Preflop=3Dbad, but not horrible
> > > flop=3Dbad, really bad
> > > turn=3Dpot odds right
> > > River=3Dwtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card l=
ike
> > > that you just call?
>
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> > > nor will =A0I =A0consider you =A0necessarily wise =A0because you are =
=A0grave.
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > > JBK
>
> > You are all wrong.
>
> > Preflop: =A0Meh (I think a lot of people are overlookign the fact that
> > its 6 max)
> > Flop: =A0bottom 2 and a flush draw, easy call
> > Turn: =A0Getting 5:1 on the money and closing the action, I'd call to
> > fill up/hit the flush
> > River: =A0Split between Call/Raise. =A0If you raise, you have to fold t=
o a
> > rereraise.
>
> > HTH.
>
> What frush draw is that?
>
> Fell
> --
> "Don't underestimate Fell. =A0He's a smart kid."
> - Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008
>
> --------=A0
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com- Hide q=
uoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The monster J-high flush.


   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 12:21:55
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 12:55 PM, trangers16 wrote:

> On Feb 4, 11:53am, "FellKnight" <jordandevenp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 4 2009 11:14 AM, trangers16 wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 4, 10:04am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the
> > flop
> > > > > and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game
I'd
> > > > > raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but
there
> > are
> > > > > so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the
way
> > > > > up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you
off
> > > > > all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top
pair.
> >
> > > > > Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the
amounts
> > > > > in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case
where
> > > > > the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a
mistake
> > > > > not to raise.
> >
> > > > > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
> >
> > > > I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so I
> > > > STFU. Now that I have at least one backer I am in.
> >
> > > > Preflop=bad, but not horrible
> > > > flop=bad, really bad
> > > > turn=pot odds right
> > > > River=wtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card like
> > > > that you just call?
> >
> > > > ==========================================
> > > > You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> > > > nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> > > > ==============================
> > > > 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > > > JBK
> >
> > > You are all wrong.
> >
> > > Preflop: Meh (I think a lot of people are overlookign the fact that
> > > its 6 max)
> > > Flop: bottom 2 and a flush draw, easy call
> > > Turn: Getting 5:1 on the money and closing the action, I'd call to
> > > fill up/hit the flush
> > > River: Split between Call/Raise. If you raise, you have to fold to a
> > > rereraise.
> >
> > > HTH.
> >
> > What frush draw is that?
> >
> > Fell
> > --
> > "Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
> > - Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008
> >
> - Show quoted text -
>
> The monster J-high flush.

ok just checking.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

-----
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:43:30
From:
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4, 11:34=A0am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> > gray? =A0I DONT UNDERSTAND!
>
> Read 'OT: Color' thread started by me yesterday at 2:06.
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will =A0I =A0consider you =A0necessarily wise =A0because you are =A0g=
rave.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> JBK
>
> ________________________________________________________________________=
=A0
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? -www.recgroups.com

Crazy? Shit, thats a compliment compared to what people usually call
me.

so, thank you.
(P.S. My "verification word" that google is making people type in
before they post is "mintill". I can't make this shit up.)


   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:55:54
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 12:43 PM, trangers16 wrote:

> On Feb 4, 11:34am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > gray? I DONT UNDERSTAND!
> >
> > Read 'OT: Color' thread started by me yesterday at 2:06.
> >
> > ==========================================
> > You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> > nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> > ==============================
> > 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > JBK
> >
> Crazy? Shit, thats a compliment compared to what people usually call
> me.
>
> so, thank you.
> (P.S. My "verification word" that google is making people type in
> before they post is "mintill". I can't make this shit up.)

Please die for posting thru google. Thanks.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

_______________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:16:35
From:
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4, 11:10=A0am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> > HTH.
>
> Actually it does help. =A0Help me to get closer to making you gray with
> those comments buddy.
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will =A0I =A0consider you =A0necessarily wise =A0because you are =A0g=
rave.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> JBK
>
> ________________________________________________________________________=
=A0
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? -www.recgroups.com

gray? I DONT UNDERSTAND!


   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:34:14
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> gray? I DONT UNDERSTAND!

Read 'OT: Color' thread started by me yesterday at 2:06.

==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK

________________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 11:19:01
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 9:33 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 3 2009 11:18 PM, MrBookworm wrote:
>
> > I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were a
> > lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> > afraid to re-open the betting:
>
> I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the flop
> and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game I'd
> raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but there are
> so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the way
> up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you off
> all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top pair.
>
> Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amounts
> in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
> the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistake
> not to raise.
>
> The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
>
> "I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz
>
> "It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
> obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

2.3 / 10


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

-------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 11:25:39
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 1:19 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
>
> 2.3 / 10

I'm sure you missed the last line so I quoted it above. I was very clear
on my reasons for raising the river, and it mostly had to do with the
buyin level. Now I know you come from the school where you only ever
raise if you have the nuts, especially in PLO, so I'll give you a break on
this particular post. But know that everything I posted there was
serious, and has reasoning behind it.

If you have anything else to offer other than "you don't have the nuts,
fold" please feel free to reply to the OP.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 15:42:42
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 1:25 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> On Feb 4 2009 1:19 PM, FangBanger wrote:
>
> > > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
> >
> > 2.3 / 10
>
> I'm sure you missed the last line so I quoted it above. I was very clear
> on my reasons for raising the river, and it mostly had to do with the
> buyin level. Now I know you come from the school where you only ever
> raise if you have the nuts, especially in PLO, so I'll give you a break on
> this particular post. But know that everything I posted there was
> serious, and has reasoning behind it.
>
> If you have anything else to offer other than "you don't have the nuts,
> fold" please feel free to reply to the OP.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
>
> "I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz
>
> "It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
> obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

Op has next to worst full house possible , and the math progression of
raising here is absolutely prohibitive . There is no flush to payoff the
OP just a straight.

I wouldnt have to have the nuts to raise but raising with this hand here
is just plain irresponsible


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 16:09:53
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 5:42 PM, FangBanger wrote:

> Op has next to worst full house possible , and the math progression of
> raising here is absolutely prohibitive . There is no flush to payoff the
> OP just a straight.
>
> I wouldnt have to have the nuts to raise but raising with this hand here
> is just plain irresponsible

I could come up with 100 examples from HH's I've gathered of people who
would call with a worse hand here. Here, just to prove that people call
bad in PLO:

Dealt to Grant1525 [Td Kc 8s 7c]
solocap: folds
Altuntas81: folds
Grant1525: raises $5 to $7
KookyDice: calls $7
mindcirkus: calls $6
sjk19857777: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qh 6d 4s]
mindcirkus: checks
Grant1525: checks
KookyDice: bets $8
mindcirkus: folds
Grant1525: calls $8
*** TURN *** [Qh 6d 4s] [7h]
Grant1525: bets $28.90 and is all-in
KookyDice: calls $28.90
*** RIVER *** [Qh 6d 4s 7h] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Grant1525: shows [Td Kc 8s 7c] (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
KookyDice: mucks hand
Grant1525 collected $93.80 from pot

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:57:09
From:
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4, 11:55=A0am, "FellKnight" <jordandevenp...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 4 2009 12:43 PM, trangers16 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 11:34=A0am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > > gray? =A0I DONT UNDERSTAND!
>
> > > Read 'OT: Color' thread started by me yesterday at 2:06.
>
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> > > nor will =A0I =A0consider you =A0necessarily wise =A0because you are =
=A0grave.
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > > JBK
>
> > Crazy? =A0Shit, thats a compliment compared to what people usually call
> > me.
>
> > so, thank you.
> > (P.S. =A0My "verification word" that google is making people type in
> > before they post is "mintill". =A0I can't make this shit up.)
>
> Please die for posting thru google. =A0Thanks.
>
> Fell
> --
> "Don't underestimate Fell. =A0He's a smart kid."
> - Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
=A0
> looking for a better newsgroup-reader? -www.recgroups.com- Hide quoted te=
xt -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, is recgroups really better? I checked it out for a day or two,
but found it too tough to keep up with what was an active topic.

And I outlasted you in NLO last night. <brushes shoulder off >


   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 11:06:34
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> Well, is recgroups really better? I checked it out for a day or two,
> but found it too tough to keep up with what was an active topic.
>
> And I outlasted you in NLO last night. <brushes shoulder off>

I was a GoogleGroups guy the first year or so and gave RecGroups a shot
and it is MUCH better. You have to mess with the options in order to see
what is current and new etc.

Give it another try. It takes a little time to get used to but is much
better IMO.

==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK

______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



  
Date: 04 Feb 2009 08:14:46
From:
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4, 10:04=A0am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> > I'll go against the grain here. =A0I probably limp preflop, fold on the=
flop
> > and fold on the turn. =A0But once you see that river in a nickel game I=
'd
> > raise all day long. =A0Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but ther=
e are
> > so many hands that are going to pay you off. =A0I'd raise that all the =
way
> > up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you of=
f
> > all day long. =A0At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top p=
air.
>
> > Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amount=
s
> > in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
> > the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistak=
e
> > not to raise.
>
> > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
>
> I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so I
> STFU. =A0Now that I have at least one backer I am in.
>
> Preflop=3Dbad, but not horrible
> flop=3Dbad, really bad
> turn=3Dpot odds right
> River=3Dwtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card like
> that you just call?
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will =A0I =A0consider you =A0necessarily wise =A0because you are =A0g=
rave.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> JBK
>
> --------=A0
> * kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more..www.recgroups.com

You are all wrong.

Preflop: Meh (I think a lot of people are overlookign the fact that
its 6 max)
Flop: bottom 2 and a flush draw, easy call
Turn: Getting 5:1 on the money and closing the action, I'd call to
fill up/hit the flush
River: Split between Call/Raise. If you raise, you have to fold to a
rereraise.

HTH.


   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:53:20
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 11:14 AM, trangers16 wrote:

> On Feb 4, 10:04am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > > I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the
flop
> > > and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game I'd
> > > raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but there
are
> > > so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the way
> > > up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you off
> > > all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top pair.
> >
> > > Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amounts
> > > in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
> > > the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistake
> > > not to raise.
> >
> > > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
> >
> > I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so I
> > STFU. Now that I have at least one backer I am in.
> >
> > Preflop=bad, but not horrible
> > flop=bad, really bad
> > turn=pot odds right
> > River=wtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card like
> > that you just call?
> >
> > ==========================================
> > You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> > nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> > ==============================
> > 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > JBK
> >
> You are all wrong.
>
> Preflop: Meh (I think a lot of people are overlookign the fact that
> its 6 max)
> Flop: bottom 2 and a flush draw, easy call
> Turn: Getting 5:1 on the money and closing the action, I'd call to
> fill up/hit the flush
> River: Split between Call/Raise. If you raise, you have to fold to a
> rereraise.
>
> HTH.

What frush draw is that?

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:10:35
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> HTH.

Actually it does help. Help me to get closer to making you gray with
those comments buddy.

==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK

________________________________________________________________________
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Date: 04 Feb 2009 08:04:07
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the flop
> and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game I'd
> raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but there are
> so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the way
> up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you off
> all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top pair.
>
> Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amounts
> in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
> the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistake
> not to raise.
>
> The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.

I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so I
STFU. Now that I have at least one backer I am in.

Preflop=bad, but not horrible
flop=bad, really bad
turn=pot odds right
River=wtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card like
that you just call?

==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:53:27
From: FangBanger
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 10:04 AM, John_Brian_K wrote:

> > I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the flop
> > and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game I'd
> > raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but there are
> > so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the way
> > up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you off
> > all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top pair.
> >
> > Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amounts
> > in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
> > the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistake
> > not to raise.
> >
> > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
>
> I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so I
> STFU. Now that I have at least one backer I am in.
>
> Preflop=bad, but not horrible
> flop=bad, really bad
> turn=pot odds right
> River=wtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card like
> that you just call?

AND YOU WONDER WHY I LAUGH AT YOUR POKER RELATED SHIT ??
>
> ==========================================
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> ==============================
> 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> JBK


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire

____________________________________________________________________
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com




    
Date: 04 Feb 2009 11:09:16
From: John_Brian_K
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> AND YOU WONDER WHY I LAUGH AT YOUR POKER RELATED SHIT ??

I never wondered. You're old and delusional and I am sure you laugh all
the time at things you should not laugh at.

==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK

_______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



   
Date: 04 Feb 2009 09:52:44
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 11:04 AM, John_Brian_K wrote:

> > I'll go against the grain here. I probably limp preflop, fold on the flop
> > and fold on the turn. But once you see that river in a nickel game I'd
> > raise all day long. Not much, just to $2 in your situation, but there are
> > so many hands that are going to pay you off. I'd raise that all the way
> > up to $1/$2 because the players are just so bad that they'll pay you off
> > all day long. At 2c/5c I imagine AQxx will call because he has top pair.
> >
> > Sure, taking the hand away and just looking at the cards and the amounts
> > in term of BB's a raise seems really bad here, but this is a case where
> > the stakes actually do matter and I think at these stakes it's a mistake
> > not to raise.
> >
> > The above was serious by the way, in case I need to clarify.
>
> I was thinking the same thing, but knew I would get blasted for it so I
> STFU. Now that I have at least one backer I am in.
>
> Preflop=bad, but not horrible
> flop=bad, really bad
> turn=pot odds right
> River=wtf were you calling all the way for if when you hit a card like
> that you just call?
>
> ==========================================
> You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
> nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
> ==============================
> 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> JBK

My problem with the river is if the players are that bad to pay you off
with AQxx or Q9xx, or whatever, who's to say they won't re-raise with KJxx
or J8xx? Sure would hate to face a stack-jam with bottom underboat.

Fell
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 10:30:25
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 11:52 AM, FellKnight wrote:

> My problem with the river is if the players are that bad to pay you off
> with AQxx or Q9xx, or whatever, who's to say they won't re-raise with KJxx
> or J8xx? Sure would hate to face a stack-jam with bottom underboat.

Then you call and win a bigger pot the times you're ahead. I'm not
advocating raise/fold. I'm raising purely for value here. Hell, I
wouldn't be surprised to see a naked KKxx here. I'm basing this on buyin
level almost exclusively. Most of my PLO has been 50c/1, and I have to
assume that 2c/5c has far worse play overall. Based on this there's no
way I'm folding if I raise. I'll add one more thing, I'm also assuming
that the 2nd player in this hand on the river is folding/calling. If I
raise then the first guy re-raises and the 2nd guy re-re-raises (if the
stacks are even that high, not sure and I don't much feel like checking),
then I can consider a fold and probably would. But based on his play in
this hand I don't expect him to have anything.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

______________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com



     
Date: 04 Feb 2009 11:27:41
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> level almost exclusively. Most of my PLO has been 50c/1, and I have to
> assume that 2c/5c has far worse play overall. Based on this there's no

It is horrible, top boats and quads get paid off and not just by smaller
boats either. Forget set mining, it seems that quad mining is almost valid.

One interesting thing I've seen is that getting it all-in with AA pre-flop
is surprisingly profitable. The shit people will stack off with in this
game pre-flop is amazing. Sure, you're not a big favorite like in HE but
I've only been up against another AA once (and I hit a nut flush to win
that one).

My Stars bankroll just passed $200, so hopefully I'll be moving to the
10/25 ($25 Max buy-in) level soon. My rule is to move up when I have 11
($225) buy-ins, but I immediately move back down if I drop below the 11
buy-ins. I will fluctuate between the $10 max and $25 max games until I'm
firmly above $225.

Dean

"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 06:11:06
From: GrouchySmurf1002
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 12:18 AM, MrBookworm wrote:

> PokerStars Game #24577644620: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/02/04
> 0:07:39 ET
> Table 'Chort V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
> Seat 1: testarosso ($5.88 in chips)
> Seat 2: cava13 ($9.71 in chips)
> Seat 3: JT Trucker ($4.56 in chips)
> Seat 4: Split Fusion ($10.34 in chips)
> Seat 5: MrBookworm ($11.14 in chips)
> Seat 6: Capbeta ($9.43 in chips)
> JT Trucker: posts small blind $0.02
> Split Fusion: posts big blind $0.05
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to MrBookworm [Jd Js 4s Td]
> MrBookworm: raises $0.10 to $0.15

Fold.

> Capbeta: calls $0.15
> testarosso: calls $0.15
> cava13: folds
> JT Trucker: calls $0.13
> Split Fusion: calls $0.10
> *** FLOP *** [Qs 4d Ts]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.25
> Split Fusion: calls $0.25
> MrBookworm: calls $0.25

Fold.

> Capbeta: folds
> testarosso: folds
> *** TURN *** [Qs 4d Ts] [9d]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.50
> Split Fusion: calls $0.50
> MrBookworm: calls $0.50

I guess this is a call at this point.

> *** RIVER *** [Qs 4d Ts 9d] [4c]
> JT Trucker: bets $0.75
> Split Fusion: calls $0.75
> MrBookworm: calls $0.75

Easy call. Raise is just bad.

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 05:36:03
From: FellKnight
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
On Feb 4 2009 12:18 AM, MrBookworm wrote:

> I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were a
> lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> afraid to re-open the betting:

Raising the river would be terrible. Perhaps you can suggest why that is.

Farson
--
"Don't underestimate Fell. He's a smart kid."
- Paul Popinjay, RGP, Nov 15, 2008

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Date: 04 Feb 2009 08:15:11
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - Should I raise the river here?
> > I was on the fence on whether to raise the river here or not. There were a
> > lot of hands that I could beat, but with two others in the pot I was
> > afraid to re-open the betting:
>
> Raising the river would be terrible. Perhaps you can suggest why that is.

The reason I didn't is that I didn't want to be facing a re-raise that in
most cases would mean I was beat. Losing those hands would lose me more
than I would make from the hands that call me when I'm ahead?

Dean

"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009

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