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Date: 30 Jan 2009 14:52:16
From: MrBookworm
Subject: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
PokerStars Game #24438830385: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2009/01/30
17:35:24 ET
Table 'Indus VIII' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: s0undclash ($4.20 in chips)
Seat 2: geisi04 ($12.50 in chips)
Seat 3: MurdockAgain ($19.65 in chips)
Seat 4: MrBookworm ($9.30 in chips)
Seat 5: kazi69 ($6.95 in chips)
Seat 6: Lambister ($20.20 in chips)
kazi69: posts small blind $0.05
Lambister: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrBookworm [Ac Qc 5s 7h]
s0undclash has timed out while being disconnected
s0undclash: folds
s0undclash is sitting out
geisi04: calls $0.10
MurdockAgain: raises $0.20 to $0.30
MrBookworm: calls $0.30

At this level I seem to get paid off enough to make this call on the
button, but I don't really like my hand.

kazi69: calls $0.25
Lambister: folds
geisi04: calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [9d 6c Ad]

Top pair, gutshot, but I don't have a flush draw.

s0undclash is disconnected
kazi69: checks
geisi04: checks
MurdockAgain: checks
MrBookworm: bets $1

Let's see if I can take it down or spike an 8.

kazi69: calls $1
geisi04: folds
MurdockAgain: folds

1 caller, I would have preferred to take it down.

*** TURN *** [9d 6c Ad] [8s]

Bingo...

kazi69: checks
MrBookworm: bets $3.15

Pot bet because I'm most likely ahead, especially against a set.

kazi69: calls $3.15
*** RIVER *** [9d 6c Ad 8s] [8h]
kazi69: bets $2.50 and is all-in

Last fucking card I wanted to see on the river. Of course he goes all-in
as he fills up. I had to call time on this one. Pot was about $11, so now
I think I have to call getting close to 5-1.

MrBookworm: calls $2.50



*** SHOW DOWN ***
kazi69: shows [Ah 7d Js 2d] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
MrBookworm: shows [Ac Qc 5s 7h] (a straight, Five to Nine)
MrBookworm collected $13.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.60




 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 19:21:20
From: MrBookworm
Subject: You sure learn to take a beat playing PLO
Most of them don't hurt, especially when multi-tabling. This one smarted a
bit:

PokerStars Game #24446925436: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2009/01/30
22:03:39 ET
Table 'Arsinoe II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: PrMm ($8.45 in chips)
Seat 2: SI471 ($4.45 in chips)
Seat 3: cocolefou13 ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 4: freroll10 ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: Eiga ($16.70 in chips)
Seat 6: MrBookworm ($16.85 in chips)
Eiga: posts small blind $0.05
MrBookworm: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrBookworm [Ah Jd As 5d]
PrMm: calls $0.10
SI471: calls $0.10
cocolefou13: calls $0.10
freroll10: calls $0.10
Eiga: calls $0.05
MrBookworm: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kc 4d Ad]
Eiga: checks
MrBookworm: bets $0.60
PrMm: folds
SI471: calls $0.60
cocolefou13: raises $0.60 to $1.20
freroll10: folds
Eiga: calls $1.20
MrBookworm: raises $4.80 to $6
SI471: folds
cocolefou13: raises $3.40 to $9.40 and is all-in
Eiga: calls $8.20
MrBookworm: calls $3.40
*** TURN *** [Kc 4d Ad] [Qd]
Eiga: checks
MrBookworm: bets $3.10
Eiga: raises $4.10 to $7.20 and is all-in
MrBookworm: calls $4.10
*** RIVER *** [Kc 4d Ad Qd] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Eiga: shows [Ks Kd 7d 9c] (a flush, Ace high)
MrBookworm: mucks hand
Eiga collected $13.75 from side pot
cocolefou13: mucks hand
Eiga collected $27.95 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $43.80 Main pot $27.95. Side pot $13.75.


 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 19:40:21
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:52:16 -0800, "MrBookworm"
<a825b33@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>PokerStars Game #24438830385: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2009/01/30
>17:35:24 ET
>Table 'Indus VIII' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
>Seat 1: s0undclash ($4.20 in chips)
>Seat 2: geisi04 ($12.50 in chips)
>Seat 3: MurdockAgain ($19.65 in chips)
>Seat 4: MrBookworm ($9.30 in chips)
>Seat 5: kazi69 ($6.95 in chips)
>Seat 6: Lambister ($20.20 in chips)
>kazi69: posts small blind $0.05
>Lambister: posts big blind $0.10
>*** HOLE CARDS ***
>Dealt to MrBookworm [Ac Qc 5s 7h]
>s0undclash has timed out while being disconnected
>s0undclash: folds
>s0undclash is sitting out
>geisi04: calls $0.10
>MurdockAgain: raises $0.20 to $0.30
>MrBookworm: calls $0.30

>At this level I seem to get paid off enough to make this call on the
>button, but I don't really like my hand.

It's mediocre at best but it has some possibilities. Lots of straight
draws, some of them to the nuts, at least one nut flush draw. I don't
like that someone limped before the raiser and could reraise, either
forcing us out or pricing us in. But you have position. Not that
bad.

>kazi69: calls $0.25
>Lambister: folds
>geisi04: calls $0.20
>*** FLOP *** [9d 6c Ad]

>Top pair, gutshot, but I don't have a flush draw.

So it's trash, basically.

>s0undclash is disconnected
>kazi69: checks
>geisi04: checks
>MurdockAgain: checks
>MrBookworm: bets $1

>Let's see if I can take it down or spike an 8.

I don't like what's basically a bluff into three players, unless they
seem particularly likely to fold.

>kazi69: calls $1
>geisi04: folds
>MurdockAgain: folds

>1 caller, I would have preferred to take it down.

>*** TURN *** [9d 6c Ad] [8s]

>Bingo...

>kazi69: checks
>MrBookworm: bets $3.15

>Pot bet because I'm most likely ahead, especially against a set.

This is not exactly a gin card.

>kazi69: calls $3.15
>*** RIVER *** [9d 6c Ad 8s] [8h]
>kazi69: bets $2.50 and is all-in

>Last fucking card I wanted to see on the river. Of course he goes all-in
>as he fills up. I had to call time on this one. Pot was about $11, so now
>I think I have to call getting close to 5-1.

>MrBookworm: calls $2.50

No-brainer call.

>*** SHOW DOWN ***
>kazi69: shows [Ah 7d Js 2d] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
>MrBookworm: shows [Ac Qc 5s 7h] (a straight, Five to Nine)
>MrBookworm collected $13.90 from pot
>*** SUMMARY ***
>Total pot $14.60


  
Date: 30 Jan 2009 19:01:14
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
> >Let's see if I can take it down or spike an 8.
>
> I don't like what's basically a bluff into three players, unless they
> seem particularly likely to fold.

Yep, bad bet against 3 players, thanks.

> >Pot bet because I'm most likely ahead, especially against a set.
>
> This is not exactly a gin card.

But it puts me ahead of a lot of 2 pair hands that I'm beating.

> Well, if your opponent is going to play like that, it isn't so bad.
> But really, calling in the hopes of hitting a gutshot to the idiot end
> of a straight with only $8 or so left behind isn't that great a play
> IMO.

Thanks, I'm realizing that betting that flop was definitely a mistake.

I am learning though. Started with $50 at the 1/2 ($5 max) tables and
have worked up to $175 on the 5/10 ($10 max) tables over the past week.

Dean

"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009

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Date: 30 Jan 2009 23:02:07
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:01:14 -0800, "MrBookworm"
<a825b33@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>> Well, if your opponent is going to play like that, it isn't so bad.
>> But really, calling in the hopes of hitting a gutshot to the idiot end
>> of a straight with only $8 or so left behind isn't that great a play
>> IMO.

>Thanks, I'm realizing that betting that flop was definitely a mistake.

Yes. NOT calling, as I mistakenly said. But I think you should
really have just taken a free card there. And then thrown out a pot
sized bet into what would have been a smaller pot on the turn. If I
got called I'd consider my hand a bluff catcher and hope to be bet
into by worse hands on the river, but fold to any significant action,
like a bet and a raise.


 
Date: 30 Jan 2009 15:26:00
From: XaQ Morphy
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
On Jan 30 2009 4:52 PM, MrBookworm wrote:

> PokerStars Game #24438830385: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2009/01/30
> 17:35:24 ET
> Table 'Indus VIII' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
> Seat 1: s0undclash ($4.20 in chips)
> Seat 2: geisi04 ($12.50 in chips)
> Seat 3: MurdockAgain ($19.65 in chips)
> Seat 4: MrBookworm ($9.30 in chips)
> Seat 5: kazi69 ($6.95 in chips)
> Seat 6: Lambister ($20.20 in chips)
> kazi69: posts small blind $0.05
> Lambister: posts big blind $0.10
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to MrBookworm [Ac Qc 5s 7h]
> s0undclash has timed out while being disconnected
> s0undclash: folds
> s0undclash is sitting out
> geisi04: calls $0.10
> MurdockAgain: raises $0.20 to $0.30
> MrBookworm: calls $0.30
>
> At this level I seem to get paid off enough to make this call on the
> button, but I don't really like my hand.
>
> kazi69: calls $0.25
> Lambister: folds
> geisi04: calls $0.20
> *** FLOP *** [9d 6c Ad]
>
> Top pair, gutshot, but I don't have a flush draw.
>
> s0undclash is disconnected
> kazi69: checks
> geisi04: checks
> MurdockAgain: checks
> MrBookworm: bets $1
>
> Let's see if I can take it down or spike an 8.

I don't see the point in betting here. Against 1 player sure, maybe even
2, but against 3 this can't be a +EV bet.

> kazi69: calls $1
> geisi04: folds
> MurdockAgain: folds
>
> 1 caller, I would have preferred to take it down.

Well obv, but expecting all of them to fold on that flop is a bit
optimistic, to say the least.

> *** TURN *** [9d 6c Ad] [8s]
>
> Bingo...
>
> kazi69: checks
> MrBookworm: bets $3.15
>
> Pot bet because I'm most likely ahead, especially against a set.

So here's where you have to pay attention to your opponent's stack. If
you pot it you are committing yourself to his stack. Do you have him on
anything here?

> kazi69: calls $3.15
> *** RIVER *** [9d 6c Ad 8s] [8h]
> kazi69: bets $2.50 and is all-in
>
> Last fucking card I wanted to see on the river. Of course he goes all-in
> as he fills up. I had to call time on this one. Pot was about $11, so now
> I think I have to call getting close to 5-1.
>
> MrBookworm: calls $2.50
>
> The call on the end was good, but was it right? Where else did I fuck this
> hand up? Be gentle, I'm still learning PLO.

The river call isn't even a decision since you committed to it by betting
more than half his stack on the turn. These people go nuts with any 2
pair so I would have expected 2 pair on the flop to check raise and 2 pair
on the turn to get it in. His river play is consistent with either an
idiot or an idiot with AAxx.

However, if you're thinking of folding the river at all, you need to work
on planning ahead in hands and your bet sizes. As far as where else, I
wouldn't have bet the flop.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

"I think they are mad that i am borderline psycho" --igotskillz

"It's unfortunate that there are loons on both sides completely
obfuscating what's going on." --Official RGP Mantra

---
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Date: 30 Jan 2009 15:46:23
From: MrBookworm
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
> I don't see the point in betting here. Against 1 player sure, maybe even
> 2, but against 3 this can't be a +EV bet.

Makes sense.

> > Pot bet because I'm most likely ahead, especially against a set.
>
> So here's where you have to pay attention to your opponent's stack. If
> you pot it you are committing yourself to his stack. Do you have him on
> anything here?

2 pair and/or a flush draw was the only thing that made sense. I didn't
think set because he didn't bet/checkraise the flop. I didn't pay any
attention at all to his stack here, that's the lesson, thanks.

> However, if you're thinking of folding the river at all, you need to work
> on planning ahead in hands and your bet sizes. As far as where else, I
> wouldn't have bet the flop.

Thanks, I do pay attention to stack sizes in NLHE so it's a great point to
do the same in PLO.

Dean

"When you respond to me, you are responding to a troll." - Paul Popinjay
1/16/2009

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Date: 30 Jan 2009 19:45:38
From: A Man Beaten by Jacks
Subject: Re: BAHH: PLO - How poorly did I play this?
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:46:23 -0800, "MrBookworm"
<a825b33@webnntp.invalid > wrote:

>> However, if you're thinking of folding the river at all, you need to work
>> on planning ahead in hands and your bet sizes. As far as where else, I
>> wouldn't have bet the flop.

>Thanks, I do pay attention to stack sizes in NLHE so it's a great point to
>do the same in PLO.

IMO it's even more important in pot limit, and one of my weaknesses in
that structure, which is a structure that really separates merely good
from great players. In NL, you can always more or less short-circuit
any opponent strategy by just saying fuck it and jamming. In
pot-limit, you really have to tailor your bets to be ABLE to go all-in
on later streets or, alternately, to prevent your opponent from doing
the same.

This also makes position very important, as you have vastly greater
control over the pot size from late position, especially if you can
use your flop actions to induce action (or a check) by your early
position opponents.

Unlike limit or even NL, where I can tolerate a couple better players
(or the chance of a couple better players) at the table, I really
don't like to play pot-limit at all unless I'm pretty sure there isn't
a superior player there. The disadvantage is too great. (But if
you're the best player the edge is IMO bigger. I have no math to back
that up but I think most people would agree with the concept.)